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Originally Posted by Alodar
Originally Posted by rodeolifant
I agree. I like how they did it in BG2. There was *one* way, and you could do it *once*. Fall again, or already done that quest? You're now a crappy fighter for the rest of the game.

In BG1 you could slaughter everyone in the Friendly Arm Inn, getting a villainous reputation in the process, walk across the courtyard to the church and donate enough money to be a hero again.

Money for redemption is a BG tradition.

Many billionaires do that in real life and it tends to works.

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Originally Posted by Silverstar
Didn't know how to get paladin back as I specifically tried to get Oathbreaker on the one paladin I made. But if it really is just a matter of coin then it's not that different from BG1/2 where you can just keep throwing money at the temples' charity bowls to maintain a high reputation. As long as you don't drop too low (below 8 reputation I think?) you can keep getting away with any number of evil acts. And far as I know the first BG doesn't even have an option to redeem yourself once fallen, so this is progress of a sort.

Doesn't mean that it's a good mechanic though. From the roleplay perspective, it would be reasonable, if you'd tried to trick people this way, by paying money to the king or the town guards for your wrongdoings, and understandable why they let you get away with this. But you trying to mess around with some kind of divine concept, who supposed to take away your paladin powers the moment you give up your oath. It doesn't make much sense if you could just keep breaking it, and pay with currency every time you did, like its not a paladin oath, but more of a deal with the devil sort of thing. You could argue that oathbreaker bureaucrat, that spawns at your camp, will preform some kind of dark ritual, to bring your powers back, and want some compensation for it, but still, it doesn't really make sense that he conveniently appears out of nowhere, and ready to fix all your problems for no good reason, and, most of all, it devalues your gameplay as a paladin, and basically turning you from a man of your word and the sworn holy knight to some magic fighter with no morals who can just throw coins around whenever he contradict himself, with no consequences for it whatsoever

Plus, as the guy above mention, they upgraded it in BG2, where you can break oath only once, with no way to restore it, and I think that's the step in the right direction

Last edited by Seventrussel; 20/07/23 09:18 AM.
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Originally Posted by Alodar
Originally Posted by rodeolifant
I agree. I like how they did it in BG2. There was *one* way, and you could do it *once*. Fall again, or already done that quest? You're now a crappy fighter for the rest of the game.

In BG1 you could slaughter everyone in the Friendly Arm Inn, getting a villainous reputation in the process, walk across the courtyard to the church and donate enough money to be a hero again.

Money for redemption is a BG tradition.
I think the distinction there is one is gaming what is widely criticized as one of the Original Saga's weakest (and fairly abstracted, narratively) systems, actually redeeming a fallen paladin in those games was a whole questline IIRC.


And in regards to BG III on the other hand is THE FIRST OATHBREAKER dramatically showing up to inform you that he is the arbiter of Oathbreakers, and that only throguh him can a paladin be redeemed, by paying a very specific amount of money, because that's the amount of money he decided it should be, and that this is apparently just how it is (and presumably always has been?) in the Forgotten Realms. But he'll also make you a blackguard/oathbreaker/whatever because that's *also* what he does. For free. No quest for that either. Apparently falling isn't really that big a deal, and becoming an oathbreaker isn't really much of a change from a normal paladin either.

It basically completely rewrites the foundations of the class as it relates to the setting. In addition to being comparable mechanically to one of the weakest systems of the original saga.

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I agree it's a bad mechanic. And I also agree it's silly from a narrative/roleplay perspective. But it's just one more thing for the pile in that regard. I think it's similar to insta-porting back to camp and saying "Hey know what, I was actually a completely different race/class all along! Oh and Astarion was a paladin and Shadowheart a barbarian, who knew!" Though I can see why these things exist because choice is king, even if the choices are ludicrous apparently.


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Originally Posted by Silverstar
I agree it's a bad mechanic. And I also agree it's silly from a narrative/roleplay perspective. But it's just one more thing for the pile in that regard. I think it's similar to insta-porting back to camp and saying "Hey know what, I was actually a completely different race/class all along! Oh and Astarion was a paladin and Shadowheart a barbarian, who knew!" Though I can see why these things exist because choice is king, even if the choices are ludicrous apparently.

True, but I think its a little bit different for paladins, since their oath is a constant part of the roleplay, and their moment of breaking it could have a meaningful impact on the tone of the narrative, and the weight of the consequences could give you the lore supported reason to not step on that path, when, on the other hand, the race/class swap is mostly out of character action, and its almost impossible to actually justify it in a story-friendly way, without breaking the immersion

Last edited by Seventrussel; 20/07/23 10:54 AM.
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