Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Is the new racial attribute system optional?

Oh for the love of Pete, just put the points where they were originally. Optional means you can put them where you want. So put them in their original places.

Correct, humans lose 3 points, shield dwarfs lose 1 point and half-elves lose 1 point.
See above. You can't put those points where you want because you no longer have as many points.

Cant be done. Humans lose +1 to all 6 stats and is replaced wtih +2 +1 to two stats.

Dwarves go from +2 +2 to +2 +1 and Half Elves from +2 +1 +1 (if I remember correctly), to again +2/+1. I bleieve one of the Elf races is also affected.

Hopefully they will revert, or come to their senses. But your suggestion is my plan, for those races where possible. The rest I will not play, my ocd prevents me :P

I think that's fair Red Queen. I think I should have focused on the effects behind the phrasing instead of the intent, instead of ascribing a motive where an unfortunate turn of phrase may have been the case. Also I used the word obsessive which I didn't intend to have a negative connotation, but I can see that was a poor choice of word. Apologies to RagnarokCzD for that, no insult was intended there.

I think it's important for people to note, though, that not being careful can lead on to a negative side effect of putting posters off contributing if they feel their opinion doesn't align with a number of the other opinions in the thread and this is generally a bad thing. It's just something to look out for in future when you think someone doesn't 'get it'.

I accept I could have made my point in a much more cohesive, persuasive manner and I'll attempt to do so in the future.

The real head scratcher is humans losing +1 strength but gaining 20 kg carry weight.

The gain 1 str if it's their primariy

So 20 or so races gets literally improved while three have a minor debuff (which larian tried to compensate in a poor way) and the whole system is suddendly trash now?

I'm all for options and I will gladly accept an option that I will not use, not even for humans, but let's not pretend that the game is suddendly unplayable because two races and a subrace got the short straw.

were 20 races objectively buffed?

While I'm not as passionate as others about the floating stats, I would love the option to toggle the 5e PHB stats on. I don't think, the change is fair for halfelves, dwarves and humans. While I personally don't really like playing humans, I like the other two races and can therefore sympasize with the people who are upset about humans too.

I and many would argue against your point of them being "literally improved", they get the same bland treatment is what they get. Less rigid differentiation based on fantasy race = less immersion, less diversity (from race to race). And it replaces the default system from d&D 5E which most d&d players prefer (atleast in my circle and I know about 30 of them personally).

Offcourse its not unplayable, but it cant be argued that Larians decision on this one isnt controversial among d&d players. Just as it was with Tashas Cauldron to everything for 5E.
It should be an optional system at best, nothing more, just as in 5E.

Racial ability score bonuses account for a large part of what sets the d&D races apart, removing that outright normalices the fantasy world, thats not an automatic + for everyone.

EDIT: Needed to check myself a bit :P.

No 3+ races got debuffed. But some would argue that freely being able to allocate your ability score bonus is a buff I guess, even if some, (like me), strongly disagree with that for both lore, immersion and D&D rule reasons. among others.

No race gets actually improved, while 2 races (humans and helf-elves) and 1 subrace (shield dwarf) lose out on stuff.

No one said the game is now unplayable, but it certainly won't be nearly as enjoyable for me as it was in EA until either a mod a gets released to return the old values or we get an option to toggle this new system off.
And unfortunately the races affected by it are the only races I generally play, so this is a pretty big and issue for me.

Hmm...there are actually some worldbuilding considerations there. If humans get -3 attributes and are now the same as other races, then the rationale that humans might lack cool extras but are more versatile is actually bogus. Unless they get, say, additional skill or proficiency slots that can be freely chosen (otherwise where would the versatility be) between categories. And not just one, because every attribute affects several skills, typically 4. Any one -2 to an attribute reduces the attribute bonus and thus typically rolls for 4 associated skills by one. Which means that a -2 is worth two skill slots. In practice, the effect might be a little less since you don't usually roll for all of an attributes associated skills in a party of 4, but still I'd say the human -3, if that's kept, is worth two additional, freely selectable proficiency or skill slots.

However, if I played a human, I'd still prefer to have +1 on every attribute.

What, you thought that humans--despite having shorter lifetimes than most other races--became the dominant race in the Forgotten Realms because they're incredibly versatile and adaptable to any situation?

Nah, it's because they're all farmers who can translate their pitchfork & scythe skills to all polearms, can carry just so much damn stuff! In battle, we couldn't approach them without getting hit, and anytime we broke or stole one of their weapons they just pulled out another from their massive backpacks!!

+1 Same, there are builds that can utilize Humans well because they have the most extra ability points. It's just speaks to the lore about the versatility of humans, but it does work in practice.

As someone who wants to run dragonborn eldritch knight, I ain't complaining about these changes nah nah hahahahhaha. Does it make sense? Kind of floating racial stats is similar to Wotr, with their tags. I think it opens a lot of choices which I am more then thankful for. Know here comes my unpopular opinion, no one cares about half Orcs, and halflings or dwarves and the stats prove it.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/is-your-dd-character-rare/

You are a minority of players, barely 8K of the dwarves make less then 9,4K of 100K people remotely care about these races or play them. Larian making changes that make 90% of the most picked races more appealing is a big win. We should be thankful.

Half-elves were one of the most picked races in the EA and they got an attribute point taken away from them. In any case, this isn't about which system is better, this is about making an option for the old system, which won't be hard since the old system is already made and has been implemented for the entirety of EA. I'm glad you like the new system, but I don't and we both get what we want if they just add an optional toggle.

Fair enough, I am all for making it optional, variety is the spice of life. I am just countering other posters who where arguing the new changes are fundamentally bad

I have played in 10+ different d&D tabletop campaigns divided between about 6 groups at this point (in the past 10 years). In just about every one of them there was at least 1 hafling player. Half orcs a little less. I have played one 2 times, and they are great for roleplay and mechanics.

This change by Larian however (copy of controversial Tashas Cauldron supplement), does not affect Half orcs or Halflings though. Not in the way me and most ppl in this thread are in uproar about. Why? because we can still apply the ability scores of those races where they belong, seeing as their numbers havent changed.

The problem is for Dwarves, Humans and Half Elves, where we cant...

Best scenario: Larian have both systems working, being toggleable to please everyone (with the PHB version being defualt as it is in 5E). Revert to original system, Larian please!, and then add new one as an option if needed.

But this shows that the plurality of player choose humans, which have fewer attributes in BG3. Half-elves and Dwarves are the #3 and #4 most picked races, again which have fewer attributes in BG3. So Larian's changes make 35% of the most picked races less appealing.

The changes aren't fundamentally and universally all good or all bad. They're a buff to certain races (at the cost of immersion for some players) and a nerf to others (with a possible benefit of giving human monks better weapons). The latter nerf could at least be addressed by providing the original PHB racial features as an option.