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old hand
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old hand
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Thats nothing more than a guess tho. And you are contradicting yourself again ... If Larian's goal is to "hook the most amount of players" ... then their goal should logicaly be to "please the most amount of players" ... therefore, give those players what they want. By excluding one option, they only asure that one group will be angry. That dont bring any benefit.  The people who even know what asi's are are probably a small minority of their targeted consumer base. The people who care enough about this to want the old style a fraction of that fraction. This isnt a simple do it and make everyone happy thing. There's probably an Email chain out there talking about the opportunity costs of all this and of what will appeal to the most. In all likelihood they'd probably loose sales by adding a toggle and thus adding another decision/clutter to the character creation ui. Larin told us most players ran a default basic looking human fighter tav. Anything that slows down these players headlong rush into vanilla tavdom is going to have a negative impact on engagement. Yall deserve to be happy, you do, but there's a good chance some data analyst the math and realized adding a toggle will make less people happy. Ehm, Im pretty sure the number of consumers who have played D&D will be a huge one. Those are your baseline customers from the getgo. Anyway, if most players rush through the character creator to play a human fighter, then the default system from the PHB for Racial ability bonuses is the easiest one. No allocating, its already buildt in. Correct me if Im wrong, but with the current system you have to allocate the +2/+1 yourself no? Or is it automatically allocated to the main ability score(s) for your class? Idk man, we're not talking about solasta or tabletop simulator here. There's a huge audience of fans of more actions rpgs out there that looking for the next big game. Between bear sex and Asmongold showing BG3 content in a positive light while his channel is pointing out concerns for Diablo 4 these going to be a ton of non d&d players checking in on this. Swen even said in the pfh that they don't even know how to market the game. Dnd players will either be playing it or will be avoiding it, no amount of advertising to that crowd will change get their opinions one way or the other. The baseline customer for larian is the mainatream action rpg fan
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Agreed. Most of the people I know that are showing interest in the game outside of these forums or more niche places aren't D&D fans. I'd almost be comfortable arguing people that really know D&D are going to be in the minority, we're already seeing a ton of reddit posts that are 'I know nothing about D&D, but...' and other related threads. Advertising to the mainstream RPG fan is definitely the route to go and the market they need to tap into; BG3 is already on the radar for D&D fans.
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After 3 years of EA are we to believe Larian suddenly implemented this VERY simple DOS2 like change at the last moment as a stroke of genius? As an answer to game testing and demand by BG3 fans?
Of course not.
D&D alone doesn't sell that well. So we need sexy bears. Buffed races stats to whatever. Freedom in multiclassing. DOS2 did this in spades (minus the bear part) and casual gamers loved it.
It just reminded me of the bowl of goat's milk that old Winthrop used to put outside his door every evening for the dust demons. He said the dust demons could never resist goat's milk, and that they would always drink themselves into a stupor and then be too tired to enter his room..
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Thats nothing more than a guess tho. And you are contradicting yourself again ... If Larian's goal is to "hook the most amount of players" ... then their goal should logicaly be to "please the most amount of players" ... therefore, give those players what they want. By excluding one option, they only asure that one group will be angry. That dont bring any benefit. The people who even know what asi's are are probably a small minority of their targeted consumer base. The people who care enough about this to want the old style a fraction of that fraction. This isnt a simple do it and make everyone happy thing. There's probably an Email chain out there talking about the opportunity costs of all this and of what will appeal to the most. In all likelihood they'd probably loose sales by adding a toggle and thus adding another decision/clutter to the character creation ui. Larin told us most players ran a default basic looking human fighter tav. Anything that slows down these players headlong rush into vanilla tavdom is going to have a negative impact on engagement. Yall deserve to be happy, you do, but there's a good chance some data analyst the math and realized adding a toggle will make less people happy. Ehm, Im pretty sure the number of consumers who have played D&D will be a huge one. Those are your baseline customers from the getgo. Anyway, if most players rush through the character creator to play a human fighter, then the default system from the PHB for Racial ability bonuses is the easiest one. No allocating, its already buildt in. Correct me if Im wrong, but with the current system you have to allocate the +2/+1 yourself no? Or is it automatically allocated to the main ability score(s) for your class? Idk man, we're not talking about solasta or tabletop simulator here. There's a huge audience of fans of more actions rpgs out there that looking for the next big game. Between bear sex and Asmongold showing BG3 content in a positive light while his channel is pointing out concerns for Diablo 4 these going to be a ton of non d&d players checking in on this. Swen even said in the pfh that they don't even know how to market the game. Dnd players will either be playing it or will be avoiding it, no amount of advertising to that crowd will change get their opinions one way or the other. The baseline customer for larian is the mainatream action rpg fan No but we are talking Baldurs Gate franchise, dont underestimate that. Those are some of the greatest rpg games ever made. A lot of people who played those were dnd players. and alot became so afterwards. Anyway, I didnt mean to imply that d&d players will be in the majority. I said Huge and Baseline. What I meant by that is that, when BG 3 was announced, a major part of the audience for news were d&d fans and ppl who had already played BG 1 and BG2. Thats what I meant by baseline. But then naturally, as gameplay footage, media attention, word of mouth etc etc gets going like in the past 2 years. Ramping up towards release, d&D players playing the game will be in the minority. But Im still thinking 10-25% to be honest. Which is nothing to scoff at. Larian have already done a few things which might alienate the most stubborn/hardcore 1% of those ppl (like myself). This recent ability score change have soured my impression slightly of the game (Im kind of furious to be honest), but I love the rest, and look forward so much to the content, that Ill be willing to let that slide. Until a mod comes along that is . To a lesser extent the lack of Paladin deity choice irks me to no end (but only half as much as the ability score change). Anyway, mini rant over :P.
"They say he who smelt it dealt it."
Sooo technically... this burnt corpse is your fault officer."
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old hand
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old hand
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No but we are talking Baldurs Gate franchise, dont underestimate that. Those are some of the greatest rpg games ever made. A lot of people who played those were dnd players. and alot became so afterwards. Anyway, I didnt mean to imply that d&d players will be in the majority. I said Huge and Baseline. What I meant by that is that, when BG 3 was announced, a major part of the audience for news were d&d fans and ppl who had already played BG 1 and BG2. Thats what I meant by baseline. But then naturally, as gameplay footage, media attention, word of mouth etc etc gets going like in the past 2 years. Ramping up towards release, d&D players playing the game will be in the minority. But Im still thinking 10-25% to be honest. Which is nothing to scoff at. Larian have already done a few things which might alienate the most stubborn/hardcore 1% of those ppl (like myself). This recent ability score change have soured my impression slightly of the game (Im kind of furious to be honest), but I love the rest, and look forward so much to the content, that Ill be willing to let that slide. Until a mod comes along that is . To a lesser extent the lack My dude the game went from the 70s to top 3 because of bear sex. Here's the thing, all of those changes that may drive off that 1%? Well there causeing exponentially more people to get/keep playing the game. As a thought exercise, imagine you are trying to bring a few newbies into tabletop but you tell tell them humans are best at nothing and will be inharently weaker no matter what class they play. Do you imagine most people would want to play a game like that? The average person wants to be able to play a barbarian gnome, or lusty dragonborn bard, if they wish, without gimping themselves. As a side note most. People in the realms pay tribute to multiple gods, even paladins, devoting specifically to one is mostly a cleric thing.
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I don't think there'll be any such optional systems in 1.0, they'll present ability scores in preset arrays with 'class' ASI's, and that'll be that. You can fiddle a bit but really, there's so much else to play around with and you want to start playing. Doubt they'll allow rolling either, that's just a time sink - 'just one more reroll...'
Going by TT convention, every DM has a preferred system and players create according to that. BG3 is such a DM. This idea that there is one true way doesn't match my experiences. Tasha's and 1D&D, like BG3, are just latest iterations.
Guess it pays not to get too invested one way or the other in ability score generation method, including BG3's, it'll likely change whatever D&D game you play next.
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No but we are talking Baldurs Gate franchise, dont underestimate that. Those are some of the greatest rpg games ever made. A lot of people who played those were dnd players. and alot became so afterwards. Anyway, I didnt mean to imply that d&d players will be in the majority. I said Huge and Baseline. What I meant by that is that, when BG 3 was announced, a major part of the audience for news were d&d fans and ppl who had already played BG 1 and BG2. Thats what I meant by baseline. But then naturally, as gameplay footage, media attention, word of mouth etc etc gets going like in the past 2 years. Ramping up towards release, d&D players playing the game will be in the minority. But Im still thinking 10-25% to be honest. Which is nothing to scoff at. Larian have already done a few things which might alienate the most stubborn/hardcore 1% of those ppl (like myself). This recent ability score change have soured my impression slightly of the game (Im kind of furious to be honest), but I love the rest, and look forward so much to the content, that Ill be willing to let that slide. Until a mod comes along that is . To a lesser extent the lack My dude the game went from the 70s to top 3 because of bear sex. Here's the thing, all of those changes that may drive off that 1%? Well there causeing exponentially more people to get/keep playing the game. As a thought exercise, imagine you are trying to bring a few newbies into tabletop but you tell tell them humans are best at nothing and will be inharently weaker no matter what class they play. Do you imagine most people would want to play a game like that? The average person wants to be able to play a barbarian gnome, or lusty dragonborn bard, if they wish, without gimping themselves. As a side note most. People in the realms pay tribute to multiple gods, even paladins, devoting specifically to one is mostly a cleric thing. Still doesnt make it right, and I doubt it keeps more ppl playing, the story, combat, cinematics, choices etc etc etc will ensure that. Humans are probably the most versatile class, and easiest to roleplay for new players to be honest, Id encourage any new player in my group to play whatever they want (within limits, its my table after all , Im a DM and also a player in another group). As a tabletop player, Humans, Dwarfs and Half Orcs are my favourite races to play. So when they imo, get shafted like this by Larian less than a month before release, its gonna upset me. And its gonna upset quite alot of ppl, as one can see on this forum thread alone. When it comes to Paladins, and deities your wrong. Read SCAG. "Most paladins are dedicated to A deity", thats just one sentence from that book, there are several more. That goes for most ppl in the realms as well. Most ppl pray situationally to different deities, but they usualy have one favourite, often connected to their way of life/proffession. Again SCAG.
"They say he who smelt it dealt it."
Sooo technically... this burnt corpse is your fault officer."
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Jan 2018
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You are never asked to select a deity during Paladin character creation and leveling. There are no rules or mechanics for it. Outside of a player’s personal role-playing preferences, it isn’t part of their class.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
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No but we are talking Baldurs Gate franchise, dont underestimate that. Those are some of the greatest rpg games ever made. A lot of people who played those were dnd players. and alot became so afterwards. Anyway, I didnt mean to imply that d&d players will be in the majority. I said Huge and Baseline. What I meant by that is that, when BG 3 was announced, a major part of the audience for news were d&d fans and ppl who had already played BG 1 and BG2. Thats what I meant by baseline. But then naturally, as gameplay footage, media attention, word of mouth etc etc gets going like in the past 2 years. Ramping up towards release, d&D players playing the game will be in the minority. But Im still thinking 10-25% to be honest. Which is nothing to scoff at. Larian have already done a few things which might alienate the most stubborn/hardcore 1% of those ppl (like myself). This recent ability score change have soured my impression slightly of the game (Im kind of furious to be honest), but I love the rest, and look forward so much to the content, that Ill be willing to let that slide. Until a mod comes along that is . To a lesser extent the lack My dude the game went from the 70s to top 3 because of bear sex. Here's the thing, all of those changes that may drive off that 1%? Well there causeing exponentially more people to get/keep playing the game. As a thought exercise, imagine you are trying to bring a few newbies into tabletop but you tell tell them humans are best at nothing and will be inharently weaker no matter what class they play. Do you imagine most people would want to play a game like that? The average person wants to be able to play a barbarian gnome, or lusty dragonborn bard, if they wish, without gimping themselves. As a side note most. People in the realms pay tribute to multiple gods, even paladins, devoting specifically to one is mostly a cleric thing. Still doesnt make it right, and I doubt it keeps more ppl playing, the story, combat, cinematics, choices etc etc etc will ensure that. Humans are probably the most versatile class, and easiest to roleplay for new players to be honest, Id encourage any new player in my group to play whatever they want (within limits, its my table after all , Im a DM and also a player in another group). As a tabletop player, Humans, Dwarfs and Half Orcs are my favourite races to play. So when they imo, get shafted like this by Larian less than a month before release, its gonna upset me. And its gonna upset quite alot of ppl, as one can see on this forum thread alone. When it comes to Paladins, and deities your wrong. Read SCAG. "Most paladins are dedicated to A deity", thats just one sentence from that book, there are several more. That goes for most ppl in the realms as well. Most ppl pray situationally to different deities, but they usualy have one favourite, often connected to their way of life/proffession. Again SCAG. As a dm tou should be even more aginst the old way. Considering it had tons of silly stuff like gnomes being better wizards than humans. Half orcs remain the meta for physical strikers and dwarfs still get their con dice. Per d&d beyond many, but not most, devotion paladins build their oath off their God and devotion paladins are probably the most religious of the oaths >The Oath of Devotion binds a paladin to the loftiest ideals of justice, virtue, and order. Sometimes called cavaliers, white knights, or holy warriors, these paladins meet the ideal of the knight in shining armor, acting with honor in pursuit of justice and the greater good. They hold themselves to the highest standards of conduct, and some, for better or worse, hold the rest of the world to the same standards. Many who swear this oath are devoted to gods of law and good and use their gods’ tenets as the measure of their devotion. They hold angels—the perfect servants of good—as their ideals, and incorporate images of angelic wings into their helmets or coats of arms. Even then though it pales in comparison to a proper cleric bond as fir paladin a god is a rolmodel, for a cleric a god is everything. If you want to be a god chosen holy warrior a war cleric is for you
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You are never asked to select a deity during Paladin character creation and leveling. There are no rules or mechanics for it. Outside of a player’s personal role-playing preferences, it isn’t part of their class. Ill repeat for you. Read SCAG. "Most paladins are dedicated to A deity. Most of the names of their spells, abilities etc have divine names/language to them. You are not required anymore mechanically to choose a deity. But in tabletop, you better have a pretty damn good reason for not choosing one in you backstory. Cos all paladins wether you like it or not get their powers from deities. Yes its primarily the oath, but where do you think those powers come from? A paladins powers come from deities. A Paladins powers are sponsored from deities through their oaths so too speak. Break that oath, the deities shut the power off, and more nefarious forces then offer their sponsorship. Furthermore, to whom do you pledge the oath, yourself? Pledging an oath to the ether/thin air doesnt give you jack s..t. Now if your one of those people who only read the rules literally and dont care where their powers come from. Who dont care that the world you play in actually makes some sense, then more power to you. Most d&d players choose a deity for their Paladin, even though they are not forced too. Ill repeat Read SCAG. "Most paladins are dedicated to A deity. Discussion on the subject closed, atleast with me.
Last edited by Odieman; 20/07/23 12:49 AM.
"They say he who smelt it dealt it."
Sooo technically... this burnt corpse is your fault officer."
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Nov 2020
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No but we are talking Baldurs Gate franchise, dont underestimate that. Those are some of the greatest rpg games ever made. A lot of people who played those were dnd players. and alot became so afterwards. Anyway, I didnt mean to imply that d&d players will be in the majority. I said Huge and Baseline. What I meant by that is that, when BG 3 was announced, a major part of the audience for news were d&d fans and ppl who had already played BG 1 and BG2. Thats what I meant by baseline. But then naturally, as gameplay footage, media attention, word of mouth etc etc gets going like in the past 2 years. Ramping up towards release, d&D players playing the game will be in the minority. But Im still thinking 10-25% to be honest. Which is nothing to scoff at. Larian have already done a few things which might alienate the most stubborn/hardcore 1% of those ppl (like myself). This recent ability score change have soured my impression slightly of the game (Im kind of furious to be honest), but I love the rest, and look forward so much to the content, that Ill be willing to let that slide. Until a mod comes along that is . To a lesser extent the lack My dude the game went from the 70s to top 3 because of bear sex. Here's the thing, all of those changes that may drive off that 1%? Well there causeing exponentially more people to get/keep playing the game. As a thought exercise, imagine you are trying to bring a few newbies into tabletop but you tell tell them humans are best at nothing and will be inharently weaker no matter what class they play. Do you imagine most people would want to play a game like that? The average person wants to be able to play a barbarian gnome, or lusty dragonborn bard, if they wish, without gimping themselves. As a side note most. People in the realms pay tribute to multiple gods, even paladins, devoting specifically to one is mostly a cleric thing. The game isn't at #1 because of the race changes. 90% of the people buying it now have no idea about them. They've technically not been announced yet we are just getting tidbits from videos.
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old hand
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old hand
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Scag is a supplement compared to core, you know core supercedes. You seem to have a misunderstanding of what paladins are. They channel power from their willpower and dedication to their oath. "Clad in plate armor that gleams in the sunlight despite the dust and grime of long travel, a human lays down her sword and shield and places her hands on a mortally wounded man. Divine radiance shines from her hands, the man’s wounds knit closed, and his eyes open wide with amazement." "A dwarf crouches behind an outcrop, his black cloak making him nearly invisible in the night, and watches an orc war band celebrating its recent victory. Silently, he stalks into their midst and whispers an oath, and two orcs are dead before they even realize he is there." "Silver hair shining in a shaft of light that seems to illuminate only him, an elf laughs with exultation. His spear flashes like his eyes as he jabs again and again at a twisted giant, until at last his light overcomes its hideous darkness." " Whatever their origin and their mission, paladins are united by their oaths to stand against the forces of evil. Whether sworn before a god’s altar and the witness of a priest, in a sacred glade before nature spirits and fey beings, or in a moment of desperation and grief with the dead as the only witness, a paladin’s oath is a powerful bond. It is a source of power that turns a devout warrior into a blessed champion." https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/paladinA devotion paladin who swore no oath to a god is just as valid as one who did. Not to mention the other subclasses.
Last edited by N7Greenfire; 20/07/23 12:58 AM.
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As a dm tou should be even more aginst the old way. Considering it had tons of silly stuff like gnomes being better wizards than humans.
Half orcs remain the meta for physical strikers and dwarfs still get their con dice.
Per d&d beyond many, but not most, devotion paladins build their oath off their God and devotion paladins are probably the most religious of the oaths
>The Oath of Devotion binds a paladin to the loftiest ideals of justice, virtue, and order. Sometimes called cavaliers, white knights, or holy warriors, these paladins meet the ideal of the knight in shining armor, acting with honor in pursuit of justice and the greater good. They hold themselves to the highest standards of conduct, and some, for better or worse, hold the rest of the world to the same standards. Many who swear this oath are devoted to gods of law and good and use their gods’ tenets as the measure of their devotion. They hold angels—the perfect servants of good—as their ideals, and incorporate images of angelic wings into their helmets or coats of arms.
Even then though it pales in comparison to a proper cleric bond as fir paladin a god is a rolmodel, for a cleric a god is everything.
If you want to be a god chosen holy warrior a war cleric is for you Dude, I know my PHB, Xanathars guide and SCAG. And them just being a "rolemodel" is your very narrow interpretation at best. And no as a DM I should absolutely under no circumstance prefer the "new way", quite the opposite. Racial ability bonuses, are what broadly sets the d&D races apart from one another (its a representation of the race as a whole). They are meant to reflect the broader differences between them. Ie Elves being dextrous, Dwarves being strong and hardy (constitution), etc etc. Its part (a very tiny one granted) of worldbuilding, of immersion. Its represented in every humanoid statblock for crying out loud. So no thank you Ill keep to "old" system thank you very much. Without it, you might as well say all the races are humans with different skins.
"They say he who smelt it dealt it."
Sooo technically... this burnt corpse is your fault officer."
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
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As a dm tou should be even more aginst the old way. Considering it had tons of silly stuff like gnomes being better wizards than humans.
Half orcs remain the meta for physical strikers and dwarfs still get their con dice.
Per d&d beyond many, but not most, devotion paladins build their oath off their God and devotion paladins are probably the most religious of the oaths
>The Oath of Devotion binds a paladin to the loftiest ideals of justice, virtue, and order. Sometimes called cavaliers, white knights, or holy warriors, these paladins meet the ideal of the knight in shining armor, acting with honor in pursuit of justice and the greater good. They hold themselves to the highest standards of conduct, and some, for better or worse, hold the rest of the world to the same standards. Many who swear this oath are devoted to gods of law and good and use their gods’ tenets as the measure of their devotion. They hold angels—the perfect servants of good—as their ideals, and incorporate images of angelic wings into their helmets or coats of arms.
Even then though it pales in comparison to a proper cleric bond as fir paladin a god is a rolmodel, for a cleric a god is everything.
If you want to be a god chosen holy warrior a war cleric is for you Dude, I know my PHB, Xanathars guide and SCAG. And them just being a "rolemodel" is your very narrow interpretation at best. And no as a DM I should absolutely under no circumstance prefer the "new way", quite the opposite. Racial ability bonuses, are what broadly sets the d&D races apart from one another (its a representation of the race as a whole). They are meant to reflect the broader differences between them. Ie Elves being dextrous, Dwarves being strong and hardy (constitution), etc etc. Its part (a very tiny one granted) of worldbuilding, of immersion. Its represented in every humanoid statblock for crying out loud. So no thank you Ill keep to "old" system thank you very much. Without it, you might as well say all the races are humans with different skins. Then you know dietys are tangentially related to some paladins, no where near the importance dieties have to clerics. The lore says humans are the supreme wizard race, with the literal god of magic having been one, under the old rules a human wizard can never be as good as a gnome. Youd have to ignore worldbuilding and lore to think humans not being able to get at +2 to int is ok.
Last edited by N7Greenfire; 20/07/23 01:13 AM.
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The lore says humans are the supreme wizard race, with the literal god of magic having been one, under the old rules a human wizard can never be as good as a gnome. You keep saying this. Can you provide a source for humans being "the supreme wizard race" (namely compared to gnomes)? If the entirety of your evidence comes from there being more named archwizard humans than archwizard gnomes in 5e material, then there's another explanation: humans are the most common race, and due to the Bell Curve there will be more humans with Int>15 than other races. Actually there's a second reason too: WotC focuses more on humans than other races. Let's take your claim as true. Humans are the supreme wizard race. Doesn't that mean that humans should actually have *larger* ASIs in Intelligence than gnomes to reflect this? Or some other trait that gives them a stronger innate connection with or aptitude to understand the weave?
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old hand
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old hand
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The lore says humans are the supreme wizard race, with the literal god of magic having been one, under the old rules a human wizard can never be as good as a gnome. You keep saying this. Can you provide a source for humans being "the supreme wizard race" (namely compared to gnomes)? If the entirety of your evidence comes from there being more named archwizard humans than archwizard gnomes in 5e material, then there's another explanation: humans are the most common race, and due to the Bell Curve there will be more humans with Int>15 than other races. Actually there's a second reason too: WotC focuses more on humans than other races. Let's take your claim as true. Humans are the supreme wizard race. Doesn't that mean that humans should actually have *larger* ASIs in Intelligence than gnomes to reflect this? Or some other trait that gives them a stronger innate connection with or aptitude to understand the weave? And we'll you know the god of magic being a human
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veteran
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You are never asked to select a deity during Paladin character creation and leveling. There are no rules or mechanics for it. Outside of a player’s personal role-playing preferences, it isn’t part of their class. Ill repeat for you. Read SCAG. "Most paladins are dedicated to A deity. Most of the names of their spells, abilities etc have divine names/language to them. You are not required anymore mechanically to choose a deity. But in tabletop, you better have a pretty damn good reason for not choosing one in you backstory. Cos all paladins wether you like it or not get their powers from deities. Yes its primarily the oath, but where do you think those powers come from? A paladins powers come from deities. A Paladins powers are sponsored from deities through their oaths so too speak. Break that oath, the deities shut the power off, and more nefarious forces then offer their sponsorship. Furthermore, to whom do you pledge the oath, yourself? Pledging an oath to the ether/thin air doesnt give you jack s..t. Now if your one of those people who only read the rules literally and dont care where their powers come from. Who dont care that the world you play in actually makes some sense, then more power to you. Most d&d players choose a deity for their Paladin, even though they are not forced too. Ill repeat Read SCAG. "Most paladins are dedicated to A deity. Discussion on the subject closed, atleast with me. Sorry, I thought my point was clearer than it evidently wasn’t. There are no mechanics for Paladin deity selection in tabletop, so there is no reason to expect such in BG3. It is merely an optional role playing decision left up the player.
Last edited by Warlocke; 20/07/23 01:31 AM.
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Joined: Feb 2022
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Scag is a supplement compared to core, you know core supercedes. You seem to have a misunderstanding of what paladins are. They channel power from their willpower and dedication to their oath. "Clad in plate armor that gleams in the sunlight despite the dust and grime of long travel, a human lays down her sword and shield and places her hands on a mortally wounded man. Divine radiance shines from her hands, the man’s wounds knit closed, and his eyes open wide with amazement." "A dwarf crouches behind an outcrop, his black cloak making him nearly invisible in the night, and watches an orc war band celebrating its recent victory. Silently, he stalks into their midst and whispers an oath, and two orcs are dead before they even realize he is there." "Silver hair shining in a shaft of light that seems to illuminate only him, an elf laughs with exultation. His spear flashes like his eyes as he jabs again and again at a twisted giant, until at last his light overcomes its hideous darkness." " Whatever their origin and their mission, paladins are united by their oaths to stand against the forces of evil. Divine radiance shines from her hands It is a source of power that turns a devout warrior into a blessed champion." https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/paladinA devotion paladin who swore no oath to a god is just as valid as one who did. Not to mention the other subclasses. An oath cannot give power by itself! You just used the words yourself: "Divine radiance shines from her hands" Divine! Blessed champion, devout warrior. Your quoting language thar disproves your point. And no SCAG takes presidence in this instant, the core book caters to all d&d settings, homebrewn or otherwise. BUT because were talking specifically about the Forgotten Realms setting.... Sword Coast Adventurers guide takes presedence. Newsflash BG3 is set in the Forgotten Realms. Scag. first Paragraph on Paladins: page 131 (I use hardcover books mostly, not d&d beyond) "... These warriors aspire to be the best people they can . When such a warrior also has great devotion to a particular deity, that god can reward the faithful with a measure of divine power, making that person a Paladin" Page 132: "MOST Paladins in the Forgotten Realms, LIKE CLERICS, are devoted to a particular deity" So no its not "just" as valid. because its a quite rare Paladin indeed that has no devotion to a deity, and most of those Id argue are oathbreakers to be quite frank. And those who arent, STILL get their powers from deities, its all in the wording of theirs spells, and powers itself. Bless, divine smite, etc etc. Its an outlier that you are able to play, for the sake of diversity, what they have done in BG 3 is not a normal Paladin its a very rare exception is what it is. And before anyone thinks I have a higher agenda from RL or something, Im a stonewall Atheist in rl.
Last edited by Odieman; 20/07/23 01:32 AM.
"They say he who smelt it dealt it."
Sooo technically... this burnt corpse is your fault officer."
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
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Scag is a supplement compared to core, you know core supercedes. You seem to have a misunderstanding of what paladins are. They channel power from their willpower and dedication to their oath. "Clad in plate armor that gleams in the sunlight despite the dust and grime of long travel, a human lays down her sword and shield and places her hands on a mortally wounded man. Divine radiance shines from her hands, the man’s wounds knit closed, and his eyes open wide with amazement." "A dwarf crouches behind an outcrop, his black cloak making him nearly invisible in the night, and watches an orc war band celebrating its recent victory. Silently, he stalks into their midst and whispers an oath, and two orcs are dead before they even realize he is there." "Silver hair shining in a shaft of light that seems to illuminate only him, an elf laughs with exultation. His spear flashes like his eyes as he jabs again and again at a twisted giant, until at last his light overcomes its hideous darkness." " Whatever their origin and their mission, paladins are united by their oaths to stand against the forces of evil. Divine radiance shines from her hands It is a source of power that turns a devout warrior into a blessed champion." https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/paladinA devotion paladin who swore no oath to a god is just as valid as one who did. Not to mention the other subclasses. HAHA, omg, you are lost my friend... An oath cannot give power by itself! You just used the words yourself: "Divine radiance shines from her hands" Divine! Blessed champion, devout warrior. Your quoting language thar disproves your point. And no SCAG takes presidence in this instant, the core book caters to all d&d settings, homebrewn or otherwise. BUT because were talking specifically about the Forgotten Realms setting.... Sword Coast Adventurers guide takes presedence. Newsflash BG3 is set in the Forgotten Realms. Scag. first Paragraph on Paladins: page 131 (I use hardcover books mostly, not d&d beyond) "... These warriors aspire to be the best people they can . When such a warrior also has great devotion to a particular deity, that god can reward the faithful with a measure of divine power, making that person a Paladin" Page 132: "MOST Paladins in the Forgotten Realms, LIKE CLERICS, are devoted to a particular deity" So no its not "just" as valid. because its a quite rare Paladin indeed that has no devotion to a deity, and most of those Id argue are oathbreakers to be quite frank. And those who arent, STILL get their powers from deities, its all in the wording of theirs spells, and powers itself. Bless, divine smite, etc etc. Its an outlier that you are able to play, for the sake of diversity, what they have done in BG 3 is not a normal Paladin its a very rare exception is what it is. And before anyone thinks I have a higher agenda from RL or something, Im a stonewall Atheist in rl. Look my dude I'm linking the source material to you that says you can be a paladin even if the only witnesses to your oath are the corpses of your slain family. If you want to follow your hombrew instead it's fine but the conversation is done as I see there's no way for it to be productive now.
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member
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member
Joined: Feb 2022
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Scag is a supplement compared to core, you know core supercedes. You seem to have a misunderstanding of what paladins are. They channel power from their willpower and dedication to their oath. "Clad in plate armor that gleams in the sunlight despite the dust and grime of long travel, a human lays down her sword and shield and places her hands on a mortally wounded man. Divine radiance shines from her hands, the man’s wounds knit closed, and his eyes open wide with amazement." "A dwarf crouches behind an outcrop, his black cloak making him nearly invisible in the night, and watches an orc war band celebrating its recent victory. Silently, he stalks into their midst and whispers an oath, and two orcs are dead before they even realize he is there." "Silver hair shining in a shaft of light that seems to illuminate only him, an elf laughs with exultation. His spear flashes like his eyes as he jabs again and again at a twisted giant, until at last his light overcomes its hideous darkness." " Whatever their origin and their mission, paladins are united by their oaths to stand against the forces of evil. Divine radiance shines from her hands It is a source of power that turns a devout warrior into a blessed champion." https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/paladinA devotion paladin who swore no oath to a god is just as valid as one who did. Not to mention the other subclasses. An oath cannot give power by itself! You just used the words yourself: "Divine radiance shines from her hands" Divine! Blessed champion, devout warrior. Your quoting language thar disproves your point. And no SCAG takes presidence in this instant, the core book caters to all d&d settings, homebrewn or otherwise. BUT because were talking specifically about the Forgotten Realms setting.... Sword Coast Adventurers guide takes presedence. Newsflash BG3 is set in the Forgotten Realms. Scag. first Paragraph on Paladins: page 131 (I use hardcover books mostly, not d&d beyond) "... These warriors aspire to be the best people they can . When such a warrior also has great devotion to a particular deity, that god can reward the faithful with a measure of divine power, making that person a Paladin" Page 132: "MOST Paladins in the Forgotten Realms, LIKE CLERICS, are devoted to a particular deity" So no its not "just" as valid. because its a quite rare Paladin indeed that has no devotion to a deity, and most of those Id argue are oathbreakers to be quite frank. And those who arent, STILL get their powers from deities, its all in the wording of theirs spells, and powers itself. Bless, divine smite, etc etc. Its an outlier that you are able to play, for the sake of diversity, what they have done in BG 3 is not a normal Paladin its a very rare exception is what it is. And before anyone thinks I have a higher agenda from RL or something, Im a stonewall Atheist in rl. Look my dude I'm linking the source material to you that says you can be a paladin even if the only witnesses to your oath are the corpses of your slain family. If you want to follow your hombrew instead it's fine but the conversation is done as I see there's no way for it to be productive now. True you can say that oath with the only witnesses to your oath are the corpses of your slain family. The reason you get your powers in the first place and keep having them though is because a deity decided to "sponsor" you in the first place. One does not simply get supernatural powers because one wants them and says a few words.
"They say he who smelt it dealt it."
Sooo technically... this burnt corpse is your fault officer."
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