Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General POLL: Replacing companions' starter class

Except that they had to implement and test a system to separate a characters in game class and cutscene class and had to ensure that there is no point in the game that would break when a origin character suddenly did not have its expected class anymore. (Not only in cutscenes but also in personal quests).

For that effort they could likely had added stat rolling as rolling dice is also already in the game.

That’s the right attitude. 👍🏼
I can absolutely see why anybody wouldn’t want to make Minsc a wizard. I just don’t understand why so many people are against Larian giving me the option to make Minsc a wizard. I am very much looking forward to arcane lore master Minsc.

Probably has been brought up before, but: I vastly prefer being able to take along companions based on their personality + story rather than their mechanical viability in my party composition. If I can't stand Astarion, but am not playing a rogue, he'd be my only option to bring along, and I'd feel as limited by that as I do in other RPGs that basically force me to bring along a character I don't like just because they can heal or disarm traps or what have you.

What’s a cutscene class? If Gale casts a spell in a cutscene it’s all pre-rendered. It has nothing to do with his class at all from a mechanical standpoint.

Larian probably did spend some time testing to decide if they want the game to react to a character’s change in class, sure. But the QA team constantly tested systems for lots of things that were or weren’t implemented in the game. You can’t point to any one of those and say “this is why I don’t have the feature I want.”

Or you play without being able to disarm traps and act accordingly by using less trap intensive routes or invest more in other type of solutions for traps.

For the purpose of reactivity the origin characters will still count as having their original class and not the respecced one.
So instead of reactivity checking the class a character has they now have a class for cutscenes and a class for gameplay.

Also its not only cutscenes but also quest design. Now you cant have for example a personal quest for Halsin that requires him to use wildshape to get past obstacles because the archdruid might not be a druid anymore.

Agreed. The only issue I could foresee is someone making Gale a fighter and then getting annoyed because Gale still asks for magical items to eat, and still talking about Wizardly things. Larian is giving us that opportunity to break the game in a sense, which I don't mind, but I wonder if some will be caught off guard by it.

No, they do not have a class in cutscenes. They have pre-rendered animations and actions. A class is part of a game system. Their class won’t match the pre-rendered animations and narrative of the cutscenes, but that doesn’t take any extra work for Larian, so this doesn’t further the point you are trying to make.

A quest for Halsin that REQUIRES him to use Wild Shape would never happen, as Larian don’t design quests where there is only one way to completion requiring a specific skill to be used.

Sorry, but you are really just grasping at straws.

Of course they have a class. How do you think all the reactivity in BG3 works? The small comments NPCs make when you pass them, the slight variations of dialogue when a paladin talks with another paladin.
Nothing of that is prerendered and according to Sven all this reactivity will refer to a origin characters original class not the respecced one, meaning you now have a disconnect between cutscene, or call it dialogue class and the game class.

Exactly as Warlocke say ... they are prepared sequences of things that will happen.

To paraphrase Swen (im too tired to search exact quote):
"Even if Halsin will be a Paladin, he will still turn into Bear in THAT cutscene."

This is an interesting point. I never realized it before, but it's true that the removal of class restrictions ironically limits design space. You can no longer have character-related quests designed around a specific class feature or ability, no matter how thematic or central it is to the character. I still remember how in BG2 when you were a wizard, you could eventually get your own demiplane and apprentices to train. Sadly that's probably not happening in BG3.

This also extends to items. If Lae'zel's personal quest leads to her finally wielding that silver sword she'd been dreaming about, it will be a very disappointing reward if she's a wizard.

Exactly. That's the risk Larian is taking when they're letting us have that freedom, and why some people are concerned. You're going to have people that get that sword and say "uh, so what, I want something for my Lae'zel bard" and that will negatively affect their experience. Hopefully most people that do change their classes will realize they're risking some odd cutscene/quest behaviour, but people being people..

But that will be on the person that decides to go against the rules and make her a wizard. You get something for the cost of something else.

It's nonsense, not sure why would anyone want to do it, but I guess enough people wanted it for the change to become a game mechanic.

You aren’t distinguishing between cutscenes and dialogue. These are not the same thing.

All right...I have to admit that has some crazy sort of appeal. If you keep his original INT :P

The question I'd ask is: does his story make sense that way? We don't know if he even has a signficant story but I'd say Shadowheart makes no sense except as a cleric of Shar, Wyll makes no sense except as a warlock, and Gale makes no sense except as an arcane spellcaster.

I am absolutely okay if Minsc’s story doesn’t make sense as a wizard. In most playthroughs I’ll just be making Minsc a barbarian unless there is some advantage to multi-classing him as a ranger. But when I make him a wizard, it’s purely for the sake of absurdity. I want big, dumb Minsc yelling “butt-kicking for goodness,” as he throws fireballs.

I probably won’t ever respec most of the characters, but I might make Karlach a Paladin if I have Minsc as a barbarian, and might play around with Astarion. Maybe make him a dex fighter or a bard.

The characters who have the strongest narrative-class ties I will probably never respec, but why not just give people that option if they want it? Larian could go through for each character and try and determine which classes, if any, make sense for respecing. Or, they could just say it’s your playthrough; do what you want.

If anybody changes Shadowhearts class and is turned off by the lack of reactivity, they will discover this very quickly and can just switch back and never do it again.

It’s a self-solving problem.

This is exactly the thing. If Larian went through each character and said "Shadowheart can only be a Cleric or Monk because such is our creative vision for her", it would be a clear way for them to set boundaries. The alternative - letting us do as we please - is communicating they don't really care much for their own creative intent and it's okay for us to rip it apart during our playthroughs. I understand that this is them offering more options in your view, but to many of us it's just another case of classic Larian whimsical silliness and it gets quite tiresome. And that's only considering the narrative aspect of it.

Awesome. Somebody finally captured the soul of Dungeons and Dragons. I’m on board.

You do you. Being tired and exasperated by a feature which is completely optional, in no way encouraged, with no mechanical advantages is bizarre to me, though.

That’s like being annoyed by Bethesda allowing access in the command console in Fallout 3 because it circumvents the creative intent underpinning the Wastelands.

That is because you do not understand that it makes a difference whether Larian implements that, thus sending that message that they do not care about their own creation to *everyone*, or if you mod the game for the same outcome but with no such message. I actually care about the existence of such a message, it changes how I feel about the game and its characters. It's not critical. I won't stop playing the game or liking certain characters because of it. But it does make a difference.

I really don’t understand. For me, the extent to which Larian cares about their world and characters is clearly demonstrated by how much effort they exerted animating, rendering, writing, mo-capping, and developing these characters. They clearly care a lot. All respecing communicates to me is an acknowledgment that they understand some players won’t care as much as they do. I think it’s wonderfully refreshing that they aren’t going to try and force unnecessary restrictions for the sake of their vision if that’s not how a player wants to play.