Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Swen Vincke on Dropped Frames show!

If you have the Tav story or Urge story as base doesn't really matter. Unless you consider the Tav story to be boring and a clear downgrade compared to urge.

Honestly the argument seems semantic...it's like saying that if you go down the alley on the left you won't see what's down the alley on the right...but the same is true in reverse.

Yeah, I kinda agree. I noticed when I was typing the last line. I mean the origin thing makes sense, at least to me. But the Urge argument is ..flimsy.
Unless, you actually have less choices as Dark Urge compared to Tav.

Basically, BG3 is made with Tav in mind. The Origins give you background and Dark Urge is a bonus "Path", which has less options because it differs very drastically.

Though I personally doubt it, to be honest.

Well, if you don't start killing everyone, then Urge is definitely superior to Tav.
It's practically Tav+. Extra cutscenes, extra items, extra NPCs, extra quests...

While technically correct, Swen himself recommending a Tav first playthrough and the Dark Urge being discouraged actively as more of an extreme playthrough, combine with the fact that most players will never play through the game more than once, it's pretty heavy weighted towards Tav being the intended experience, the baseline if you will. Dark Urge is an alternate, Tav is the standard.

My impression is they feel that because the Dark Urge heavily nudges players down more evil paths they don't want that to be the first experience because they don't want players to feel pushed down a certain path and do whatever at first...but I was already planning to play more evil paths no matter what and the Dark Urge seems to only enhance and make the evil paths better.

No, Sven didn’t recommend Durge for first playthrough because he things Durge’s content will have more impact, if players knows the default chain of events.

It seems we won’t always be able to stop our murderous urges - sometimes thing will happen and we will be left to deal with consequences.

As someone who has obsessively played early access over the last years, I'm ready for something other than Tav.

According to what I have heard (WolfheartFPS I think?), the Dark Urge has to resist the Urges with saving throws, which get tougher the more they resist.
If that is correct, the Dark Urge will *not* play like Tav, because that character is free from such rolls. And the Dark Urge will probably give in, because you will roll a 1 eventually.


Well, I am currently in the mood for an evil path, but I still won't play the Urge, because I am not interested in the murderous impulses that get harder to resist. Now, if there where *other* dark impulses offered, I may be curious, but a pull towards a insane murderer is not something I care for. But, options are always great, so everyone who is interested should enjoy it.

I think the main feature of Dark Urge is its additional, extra violent dialogue options.
Even assuming you don't start killing your own companions to get more power, it can lead to minor or major changes in some events.
It is reasonable to assume that a large number of people who are determined to play as a psychopathic killer will play as a psychopathic killer.
This will open up some new content for you, but it usually closes it off a lot more (for example if you kill a companion).

Therefore, it is recommended that you first know the default (and in this case probably richer) chain of events.


It's one possible explanation, but for now you have no more evidence for this assumption than I have for mine.

That's an awful take. That's not how it is at all...you don't really lose control...sometimes the immediate consequences can be hard to judge like fantasizing about something could lead to it happening, etc. But you always know when you are choosing a Dark Urge interaction...the game doesn't take any meaningful choice out of your hands. The Dark Urge only provides more options for the evil paths, never less.

Literally the Dark Urge just gives more options for evil paths, makes them more fun, and provides some very powerful rewards you couldn't get otherwise.

The way I understood it to be is that there is actually a difference in priorities and goals between a Tav and a Durge. Like the differences in a Gale and Shodowheart MC run, but on steroids.

Honestly, I suspect Durge may be much more invovled directly with the absolute and dead three from the other side of the story after act 1. Durge's story is going on in the background of Tav's story if you are playing Tav. Meanwhile if you are playing Durge, you have access to much of the same stuff as Tav (probably due to game design and production cost) but you really are doing your own thing.

As a metaphor, I think of it as playing a Spiderman game as Spiderman, vs a run as Venom that is happening chronologically at the same time. You have access to all the same world and events that are happening, you can even do some hero-ing, but you are definitely on your own path and have your own concerns to deal with.

I really need to find out where I heard the thing about having to make saving throws to resist.
Anyways, for me it basically boils down to the Dark Urge being "murder-themed". Killing people, getting empowered through murder, that kind of stuff.
Sure, it may give an evil playthrough more meat, but the central theme does not appeal to me.

When I play an evil character, they usually see death as a last resort or a necessity, never as a goal or as fun. A random idea that pops in my head would be an smuggler who desires wealth and living comfortable. They may abduct people he fancies, but death has no benefit for his goals.
Even my necromantic characters are more characters that want to end mortality and turn everyone undead than people who actually want to end an existence.


Does this make more sense? It is the theme that I do not care for, it isn't that I find the character limited or somehow weak. It is similar to me not playing certain origins, because their characters theme does not appeal to me. Even if I find them as characters interesting. If I would be playing the game in multiplayer, I would be interesting if the Dark Urge would be a PC, but I can not see myself actively playing them.

Swen's a great guy and I'm sure he knows what he's talking about when it comes to BG3, but I at least still intend to play my way, regardless of this interview. Larian has been pretty insistent that that's what we should be doing all along.

I'm not convinced custom character is that much of a lesser experience than Dark Urge/Origins. I actually think it's potentially more interesting even as it seems we get to sculpt our path more. For instance, early on we can apply the Baldurian tag to our character via conversation... or not. Maybe there's an option to be spesific about other places we're from later on too. Meanwhile Gale will always be from Waterdeep, Astarion can never not be from Baldur's Gate and the Dark Urge will always have to have done something horrible previously and potentially not have the option to not do horrible shit again here and there. With how much the devs have boasted about crafting our characters' identities and making choices that meaningfully change the story, I feel it's fair to assume we'll see that going forward even as custom characters, even if we haven't seen a lot of that with our limited exposure to the game from act 1.

Well, most of Bhaalspawns from BG1 and BG2 had these dark urges born of their father's inheritance.
Some gave in to these urges and most of the time it gave them a power boost.

But others, like CHARNAME, had strong enough willpower (albeit often low wisdom since it was a known dump stat) so they managed to resist this urge and were even able to change the dark power into good power.
(Your Bhaal powers are dark combat spells if you're evil, or healing and buffing divine spells if you're good.)

If Dark Urge follows a similar example, then even trying to resist an increasingly strong urge could lead to interesting rewards and an interesting endings.

Honestly no...not even a little bit. What do you even mean you want to play evil without killing anyone? That makes literally zero sense. I can understand the idea that there's no kingdom to rule over if you burn it all to the ground, and personally I prefer corrupting evil style much more over stabbing but evil isn't about pacifism. You sound like you have no idea what you want to do. The Dark Urge is just an extra option on top...a more fun way to go about the killing of some enemies you'd probably have to kill anyway or a means to get extra power from killing some NPCs that you might otherwise not be able to do much or anything with and some of the gear the Dark Urge path rewards is insanely good.

Not necessarily. If you play an origin first, you can follow several different paths within their story. The experience can be very, very different from playing with them as NPCs.

Given Larian's track record it probably is.

I thinky misunderstand "see death as a last resort or a necessity, never as a goal or as fun". It means they kill if there is a reason or it is unavoidable. They do not have a deeper urge to do so. The Dark Urge is all about killing, I can not put myself in a character that is about killing, because I can't play it.

And I am still certain that you will not have the same options as Dark Urge than as Tav. That you need to resist with a saving throw makes sense and keeps them different enough.

I know what I want to do. For a good run and also for an evil run. Neither will be overly into murder. Because I fail to see the appeal of even getting such an option. I kill Astarion for trying to drink my blood and not for some murderous urge.

The Murder-Theme simply does not appeal to me, I do not quite understand how that makes me into someone that does not know what he wants.

I am going to play as every origin, then TDU then infinite playthroughs of Tavs until the world seizes to exist or I die of old age.