Originally Posted by Solarian
I notice that so many players want to go the evil path, some planning to commit terrible acts of evil like killing all the druids for instance.

Were the Druids not about to expel a bunch of refugees and children into the wild to face certain death? Were the Tieflings not plotting to assassinate the Druid leadership? Are those evil acts or good acts? Both are looking to survive and see the other as a threat.

Originally Posted by Solarian
In traditional fairy tales the protagonist is always good (or start out being good), the helpers are good, and typically enemies are evil. The very definition of evil is wanting to do harm to others I think.

Not really. All humans are capable of baseline sociopathy, you just have to start removing things from the hierarchy of needs and you have the capacity to get there. Free will isn't really a thing for the majority of our decisions. We respond through "reaction formation" most of the time.

Robert Malthus, in the 1800's was able to plot the conditions for which society will turn on itself and start dividing and even killing through perceived tribal lines - for which he was reviled at the time, but he was right.

Evil, or the capacity to act without regard to others needs is in many ways a useful social tool. Sometimes you need people like that, especially leaders who can save a society at the expense of some "less valuable members". Most people just don't have the capacity to act in this way, even if this sort of action is desperately needed.

Empathy isn't some great and noble expression of love, or I should say it would only be considered noble if it radiated out when times and conditions were the most dire. The reality is empathy is more like a control system, that keeps us "socially stable", and prevents our own infinite desires and needs from becoming "socially untenable". Empathy is imposed upon the majority of us, but not sociopaths who are free to take actions that others find impossible.

So being evil can have great social benefits - especially in a crisis - or more commonly when dangerous elements have to be removed from society. We didn't always have prisons or the resources to maintain them. If you have a member of your society that is too dangerous to allow loose you need someone who can remove the problem.

So, BG3 is set in a situation where the Sword Coast and the City of Baldur's Gate is in a crisis. Dangerous elements of society need to be hunted down and eliminated. You are running out of time which may necessitate absolutely brutal actions to resolve the crises. You will need plenty of resources to take on this threat, and so that may require brutal actions to get what you need.

In times of crisis, evil is good.

Originally Posted by Solarian
They don't just have other opinions, they generally are not nice to their fellow beings (except sometimes on the surface perhaps).

Nonsense. A sociopath is completely capable of being pleasant, friendly, diplomatic and charming.

Being Nice is a survival pathway for people who are "socially low value." - "I am totally useless but see how nice I am, don't kill me or kick me off the island"

Sadly it works.

Originally Posted by Solarian
I don't think you will find any society on Earth (in real life) where being evil is an ideal.

Really, depends on your perception. The vast majority of people don't see their own actions as evil as you wisely mention below.

Did the Protestants in 15th century England see the Catholics as a society of evil (YEP).

There are tons of modern societies and cultures that see each other as evil.


Originally Posted by Solarian
We may as outsiders judge other societies as evil yes, but that is not how they see themselves. The struggle to go through life wanting to be good while being opposed (or tempted) by evil is the challenge most of us face, and if in a fairy tale the protagonist should fall to evil that's the end of the story.

You mean if the protagonist is defeated by evil? or corrupted by evil? As in overtaken by it? So they are not themselves anymore? Are we talking about Mindflayers, because once you turn into one you are dead anyway.

Originally Posted by Solarian
What then is the challenge for an evil protagonist, what will be his goal? World domination? Vengence? Optimizing body count numbers for his diary? Playing evil doesn't appeal to me, but I'll try not to be judgemental and instead ask the question: What appeals to you about playing an evil character? Hoping for some good answers smile

Necessity - because it is what is needed to save society, to do what others can't. I will use the power I gain to accomplish that, and to protect the people I value. My needs will be met, but so will the needs of many others, and together we will thrive and none shall threaten us.

We will "play Ender's game" and the enemy will receive no mercy, and those who abet the enemy shall find likewise the same "mercy" and they shall stand as a testament to others what such actions shall earn you. I will win renown for my actions and will be adored, and finally safe...

Last edited by Blackheifer; 27/07/23 01:08 PM.

Blackheifer