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Originally Posted by JandK
Originally Posted by Darth_Trethon
Originally Posted by JandK
lol, seriously, what are you talking about?
You cannot be serious with this nonsense. You can leave her behind a couple of times but then she will be driven mad by voices in her head to attack your party...if you then say you let her stay the voices instantly stop and she collapses on the floor unconscious, asleep. If you refuse she will attack and force you to kill her. That is by design and again by the rules of the DM. Please go back and read the bloody thread.

Which would be... Her. Initiating. The. Combat.

See?

It's not... Rag. Initiating. The. Combat.

It's her.

I've read the thread. In fact, the only reason I'm replying is because you keep repeating yourself.
Why are you repeating yourself for no reason? You literally have ZERO points. The game makes it abundantly clear that your ONLY choice it accept her in your party or kill her. End. Of. Story. There's nothing more to it, yet you keep repeating nonsense over and over and over because you refuse to accept that which is literally the EXACT same thing as refusing to accept DM ruling. So as I said before: your only option is accept the DM ruling or leave the table.

Last edited by Darth_Trethon; 27/07/23 04:00 PM.
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Some people have had horrible any dm. Any dm who forces players to do something and threatens to quit/kick them out is an absolutely horrible dm..A dm dhould never try yo control players.Ever. That's a bad doing. Crpgs get some leeway here because they have to be pre scripted, but pno dns can't hide behind thst. That's pure garbage to punish players because thry dint do what the dm wants. If the dm is so focused on theur made up story/plot and not the game; write a damn book.

Players should be allowed to fo/try everything and deal.with potential consequences if fair and reasonable. Bad doing us bad doing.

No pnp campaign should depend on one particular artifact or npc. And, plot threads should ne able yo be circumvented by players.

Back to bg3... the more ways larian give players to deal with events in the game the better a rog it us. Of course, there'll be limits as stated above. We shall see...

There are multiple reasons to send SH away without killing her. Just because you dint trust her duesnt mean you want or feel the need to kill her. That Saud, she has her motivations, too. Thst may lead to her attacking which means you either die, defend yourself, or free. Npcs have goals too that players may notlike. TOUGH.

Last edited by Volourn; 27/07/23 04:05 PM.
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Originally Posted by Volourn
Some people have had horrible any dm. Any dm who forces players to do something and threatens to quit/kick them out is an absolutely horrible dm..A dm dhould never try yo control players.Ever. That's a bad doing. Crpgs get some leeway here because they have to be pre scripted, but pno dns can't hide behind thst. That's pure garbage to punish players because thry dint do what the dm wants. If the dm is so focused on theur made up story/plot and not the game; write a damn book.

Players should be allowed to fo/try everything and deal.with potential consequences if fair and reasonable. Bad doing us bad doing.

No pnp campaign should depend on one particular artifact or npc. And, plot threads should ne able yo be circumvented by players.

Back to bg3... the more ways larian give players to deal with events in the game the better a rog it us. Of course, there'll be limits as stated above. We shall see...
You've never been at a D&D table with troublemakers, huh? There are people who will argue with the DM about every little thing and refuse to accept rulings, and always stall games to the point the rest of the players are practically begging that DM to kick the troublemaker. It's not even a terribly rare occurrence when you play with a lot of different players.

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Okay folks, I’m travelling and on my phone and the forum (or perhaps my internet connection) is going very slowly, so I’m not sure what’s going on.

But if we’re repeating ourselves because others are, something’s going wrong. Someone has to stop first! Please take the high ground and disengage if you’re going round in circles.


"You may call it 'nonsense' if you like, but I've heard nonsense, compared with which that would be as sensible as a dictionary!"
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I've been playing dnd fir nearly 40 years. I've seen and deal with 'trouble majers' as both player and dm. Also, FYI, Disney don't have sole responsibility or power to 'kick' trouble players. Not where I'm from. Also, you aren't describing an in game situation. I dint even know why you replied to the post.

The point I made was only a bad dm tries to control what PCs do. Trouble players and trouble dms (they do exist) is a whole different mess.

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I feel like the question being asked in this thread is:

---Is there a way for me to invite Shadowheart into the party and then get her to leave the party (and the campsite) *without* me personally initiating combat with her?---

And then there are replies about DMs and dealing with it and so on. And I can't help but think none of that is addressing the question despite coming across as so aggressive.

I just wanted to help clarify the conversation, but I'll certainly let it be. I'm not sure there's a bridge to be made here.

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Originally Posted by Darth_Trethon
Originally Posted by JandK
Originally Posted by Darth_Trethon
Originally Posted by JandK
lol, seriously, what are you talking about?
You cannot be serious with this nonsense. You can leave her behind a couple of times but then she will be driven mad by voices in her head to attack your party...if you then say you let her stay the voices instantly stop and she collapses on the floor unconscious, asleep. If you refuse she will attack and force you to kill her. That is by design and again by the rules of the DM. Please go back and read the bloody thread.

Which would be... Her. Initiating. The. Combat.

See?

It's not... Rag. Initiating. The. Combat.

It's her.

I've read the thread. In fact, the only reason I'm replying is because you keep repeating yourself.
Why are you repeating yourself for no reason? You literally have ZERO points. The game makes it abundantly clear that your ONLY choice it accept her in your party or kill her. End. Of. Story. There's nothing more to it, yet you keep repeating nonsense over and over and over because you refuse to accept that which is literally the EXACT same thing as refusing to accept DM ruling. So as I said before: your only option is accept the DM ruling or leave the table.

Are you leaving the table?


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Originally Posted by Darth_Trethon
Originally Posted by JandK
Originally Posted by Darth_Trethon
Originally Posted by JandK
lol, seriously, what are you talking about?
You cannot be serious with this nonsense. You can leave her behind a couple of times but then she will be driven mad by voices in her head to attack your party...if you then say you let her stay the voices instantly stop and she collapses on the floor unconscious, asleep. If you refuse she will attack and force you to kill her. That is by design and again by the rules of the DM. Please go back and read the bloody thread.

Which would be... Her. Initiating. The. Combat.

See?

It's not... Rag. Initiating. The. Combat.

It's her.

I've read the thread. In fact, the only reason I'm replying is because you keep repeating yourself.
Why are you repeating yourself for no reason? You literally have ZERO points. The game makes it abundantly clear that your ONLY choice it accept her in your party or kill her. End. Of. Story. There's nothing more to it, yet you keep repeating nonsense over and over and over because you refuse to accept that which is literally the EXACT same thing as refusing to accept DM ruling. So as I said before: your only option is accept the DM ruling or leave the table.
If I'm reading this whole conversation correctly, the issue is that the game offers you the option to make Shadowheart leave, she agrees to do so but then proceeds to remain in your camp anyway. Her being sworn to guard the artefact has nothing to do with that. It's clearly either a bug, an oversight or an Early Access thing, @JandK and others are completely in the right here.

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As I said earlier, we need to wait and see if the kick-out-of-party/camp-through-dialogue option is present in the full release. Arguing anything else in EA is purely academic, imo. If it turns out not to be in the final release, then we can complain, lol. Also, if we kick Shadowheart out, Larian will find a way to give us the MacGuffin when we need it later, with or without her.

If they do add such a simple option (it's in the Pathfinder games; can't be all that complicated), it'd be cool if there was a little bit more depth to it than "Are you sure you want me to leave?" "Y/N," such as the companion asking if there was anything that sparked the decision based on unlocked plot points for the character. What would take it to a whole new level beyond even that is if they could try to negotiate for you to change your mind.

As someone with social anxiety and a fear of confrontation, I'd never be comfortable with using the feature, but I always avoid recruiting characters I don't like in order to circumvent it anyway, lol.

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Originally Posted by Llengrath
If I'm reading this whole conversation correctly, the issue is that the game offers you the option to make Shadowheart leave, she agrees to do so but then proceeds to remain in your camp anyway. Her being sworn to guard the artefact has nothing to do with that. It's clearly either a bug, an oversight or an Early Access thing, @JandK and others are completely in the right here.
It's early access some lines need to be made clearer but that's not particularly relevant here. The intent of her character is abundantly crystal clear...she's not going anywhere. If you're somehow confused about that the final game should clarify that you can dismiss from party but not from camp...at least not without her being driven mad and attacking.

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I never felt that my Avatar was picked so well in my life. xD

There is much i would like to say to all that was spoken here today ... but i think i have better idea!
Lets get back on track ... shall we?

---

Originally Posted by JandK
1. Let her leave the camp (and find a way to get the artefact to the player), or
Just a small clarification ...
There allready is a way to get the artefact to the player ... and according to my testing, its implemented and working ... a bit wacky, i admit that, but acceptable. smile

Originally Posted by JandK
I feel like the question being asked in this thread is:

---Is there a way for me to invite Shadowheart into the party and then get her to leave the party (and the campsite) *without* me personally initiating combat with her?---
Yes, exactly. smile
Its more a rhetorical question, since my goal is to achieve this no matter if it is there or not, so it can freely evolve from question to suggestion ... still, if anyone would know any way, i would like to know. smile

So far the only usefull advice was from neprostoman, who shared an idea to smash her head until she get pissed and leave by herself ...
She is alive ... and not in my camp ... so it kinda does work.
But its not ideal.
On the other hand tho it certainly prooves that she can leave.

---

Originally Posted by Llengrath
If I'm reading this whole conversation correctly, the issue is that the game offers you the option to make Shadowheart leave, she agrees to do so but then proceeds to remain in your camp anyway.
Well ... maybe i should have screenshot it. :-/
But i believe you basicaly tell her that you dont want to "travel with you anymore" ...

My problem is that english is not my first, nor second, and basicaly not even third language ... so im not quite sure if her sitting in camp, dont "technically" fulfill that sentence.

In other words ...
What makes me started this topic is that i am a little affraid that this outcome is intentional. :-/

Originally Posted by Llengrath
It's clearly either a bug, an oversight or an Early Access thing
I certainly hope so.

---

Originally Posted by The Fell Omen
we need to wait and see if the kick-out-of-party/camp-through-dialogue option is present in the full release. Arguing anything else in EA is purely academic, imo.
I believed that much should be obvious without saying. laugh
Seems like i was wrong tho.

Originally Posted by The Fell Omen
"Are you sure you want me to leave?" "Y/N,"
Its kinda sad/funny we have this for sending our companions to camp ...

But as their Dark Secret is revealed, they (to my knowledge) dont fight (metaphoricaly) to stay with us at all ... i just said Astarion to leave, and he left ... no questions asked, no futher dialogue, just an ingame popup window stating that he left my group permanently.
Its kinda depresing when i think about it.

Originally Posted by The Fell Omen
such as the companion asking if there was anything that sparked the decision based on unlocked plot points for the character. What would take it to a whole new level beyond even that is if they could try to negotiate for you to change your mind.
I love this idea!

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 27/07/23 09:54 PM.

I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. frown
Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are! frown
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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by Llengrath
If I'm reading this whole conversation correctly, the issue is that the game offers you the option to make Shadowheart leave, she agrees to do so but then proceeds to remain in your camp anyway.
Well ... maybe i should have screenshot it. :-/
But i believe you basicaly tell her that you dont want to "travel with you anymore" ...

My problem is that english is not my first, nor second, and basicaly not even third language ... so im not quite sure if her sitting in camp, dont "technically" fulfill that sentence.

In other words ...
What makes me started this topic is that i am a little affraid that this outcome is intentional. :-/
A screenshot would actually help a lot... would be funny if this all boiled down to a misunderstanding laugh best I could quickly find is this (dialogue option 5).

So the line says "I can't trust you. Best if we travel separately for now." I have never tried that so I don't know her exact response. The "for now" part implies to me "leave for now, but perhaps we can travel together later".

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Originally Posted by The Fell Omen
As I said earlier, we need to wait and see if the kick-out-of-party/camp-through-dialogue option is present in the full release. Arguing anything else in EA is purely academic, imo. If it turns out not to be in the final release, then we can complain, lol. Also, if we kick Shadowheart out, Larian will find a way to give us the MacGuffin when we need it later, with or without her.

If they do add such a simple option (it's in the Pathfinder games; can't be all that complicated), it'd be cool if there was a little bit more depth to it than "Are you sure you want me to leave?" "Y/N," such as the companion asking if there was anything that sparked the decision based on unlocked plot points for the character. What would take it to a whole new level beyond even that is if they could try to negotiate for you to change your mind.

You can do this with most of the companions in the Pathfinder games, but not all of them.

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