Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Shadowheart with twohanded spear?

So, I'm planning to keep my companions as canon as possible, but I'm not sure about Shadowheart. Most people giving her a ranged weapon, like a crossbow, I recon, because she's not really good in melee. But on the art she's usually have a spear, and doesn't really give an archer vibes to me. Do you think there is a way to make her at least somewhat reliable with a spear? And, in any case, how much does her weapon choice really matter, since she's a cleric?

Probably a feat.

Anyway, judging by the romance poll, Shadowheart will be quite reliable with a different kind of twohanded spear.

Clerics are proficient with spears, and spears are versatile, meaning it can be used in 2 hands to do 1d8 damage. It is strength based, but I've seen her stats are different in the real game and she can be developed into a Wis/Str build.

There is also the weapon master feat which can bump Str and grant proficiency with longspears, 1d10 damage.

Not to mention all characters can be respec'ced in camp. You could even go cleric/fighter to really trick her out her fighting skill - at expense of spell power. Go eldritch knight to improve spell slots.

that spear is a very important item to one of the paths in her story. the details are a big spoiler though.

I'm assuming her stat spead will be wis>str>dex and she'll get access to martial spear weapons through her race so she should be serviceable in melee

best weapon for Shadowheart is a dagger and shield... that lets her use dex to hit and tank for you which is the roll Clerics are designed for

a spear is a good option if you or the gith are in front with a shield because she can then stand behind you and still reach the target... there is a very good spear for fighting things with many eyes like a big spider or beholder so its worth giving her that spear for those fights even if she is taking the tank roll

another good option for Shadowheart with a Tav that tanks is to give her a dagger + dagger [swap the off hand dagger for club of str later] and let her just swing away but this limits her heals as she normally uses at least a bonus action to do that

range weapons = her firebolt is better than any other weapon you could give her anyway... this spell is Intel based, does fire damage [dur] and doesn't use any spell slots to cast, it was only added a little while ago so older guides will not have it

personally i like a dual weapon Bard so my Shadowheart will be the parties shield-maiden

SH doesn't have the CON stat or armor proficiency to run without a shield

There is no need to commit Shadowheart to any particular type of weapon unless you are planning on multiclassing her. She is a full caster, and therefore her best move in a fight is going to be cast a spell, not prod with a pointy stick. This is especially true level 5+ when cantrips get a damage boost that pushes them past weapons.

Shadowheart has a melee and a ranged weapon slot, and you should put something in both, but it can be whatever since you shouldn't be making much use of it. On paper she is marginally better with a dagger, but there are a bunch of good magic spears in the game.

But the important thing is: USE A SHIELD.

Once I "discovered" Cantrips I stopped using bows/crossbows. I keep one around to shoot those special arrows/bolts I keep on finding.
I've been playing Shadowheart with shield and Deathseeker spear - she simply "looks right" to me.
As she is awful in melee, the advantage after a miss is useful

So, basically, you can totally ignore her weapon, and just upgrade her spells, and give her whatever, spear or a salami stick, and that won't really affect her contribution to the battle? That's kind of what I'm hoping for tbh

Tav: "Oh yes, that's definitely a twohanded spear"

SH:



I'm sorry, I'm just hyped for release.

“My disappointment is immeasurable and my say is ruined.”

She's fine with dual daggers and some basic poison on them. Fits the Trickery theme too. Or a crossbow.

Would be cool if evil Clerics get a more fitting Cantrip than Sacred Flame. Toll the Dead would be great.

I am *so* going to dip her into rogue/thief. She'll be the sneakiest infiltrator in the Realms. Unless she converts, then she'll be a full on Sword wielding Light Cleric/fighter.

In one playthrough I had SH dual-wield the Giant's club in her off hand, giving her Str15 and Booal sickle in her main hand. Had scalemail+1 for AC17.

Then I discovered they'd made Giant Str potions last all day (if you trade well, you can get 10-15 of them). I think she's proficient with hand axes so she got one of those instead of the club.

I cast Aid @ level 3 for +10hp for all. She can tank a bit if you gear her up and equip a shield.

That said, I've found her most effective being spec'ced for Wis & speed, casting Spirit guardians, and then a paladin casting Sanctuary on her. She ran around the goblin camp incinerating them where ever she went.

I loaded the game up and equipped her with a rapier just a little bit ago. It says she isn't proficient with the rapier, but the bonus listed seems to say otherwise.

She was getting a total of +3 to hit.

+1 from Strength, and
+2 from Proficiency

I assume she's not getting the finesse feature because she's not proficient, perhaps? Otherwise, she'd be getting the +2 from Dex instead of the +1 from Str. And I don't believe she should be getting the +2 from proficiency. So I'm not exactly sure what the game is doing right now in regards to her weapon choices.

Yeah EA is all over the place with displaying errors. The combat log is more accurate.

I'm pretty sure she's only +2 from Dex because of finesse, but the damage die means her average DPR is better with a rapier.

She's not optimized in EA. I've seen a couple of different builds for her in videos of 1.0, some showing a Str build, other a Dex build. Though it might just be level 4 choices.

SH gets a bit MAD if you try respec'ing her to be Wis/Str/Dex and Con.

Insomuch as you should increase her wisdom at level 4 and 8, yes.

It sounds like you aren't very familiar with the 5e rules. It doesn't actually have great many decision points if you don't multiclass (and I wouldn't recommend that unless you know the rules very well), and SH's key one, choosing the Trickery domain, has already been made (although you could potentially respec it). Clerics don't even have to choose spells. It's not like 3rd edition/Pathfinder, where you are choosing a feat or special ability most levels, so "focusing" isn't necessary to be effective.

The level cap in EA has skewed some people's perceptions. If SH focuses on STR or DEX she is not going to be an effective cleric at higher levels, and she isn't going to be an effective fighter either since she doesn't get Extra Attack (her cantrips do increase in damage - but without maximising wisdom they won't land).

I quite like Shadowheart's stats. These are almost certain to change with no Half-Elven bonuses, right?
As to spear two-handed - I agree with the opinion that she needs the shield. She too dainty to facetank it.

I didn’t make a secret of not being a fan of the ability to respec companions from level 1, since I think this will make them empty husks of characters where everything about them will be changed by the player at will.

That said, since the option will be there in the end, Shadowheart domain may actually be the only case where I take advantage of the feature.
I was considering turning her in a War or Tempest domain cleric.

Trickery blows.

No one is forced to use respec. It's there if needed, and largely intended as a way to fix mistakes.

But if you want to be consistent with lore, the only other option for a cleric of Shar that is in the game is the Knowledge domain.

I didn’t ask if someone is forced.

Viable in terms of mechanics? Sure, at start her STR bonus is one less than her DEX bonus, and since she is a cleric, you're not gonna use ASIs to bump anything but her WIS (or give a Feat). A +1 on a d20 is not a big deal spaced out over dozens or 100s of rolls. And if you want her to go melee, I think her only finesse option is a dagger. In EA, if I don't use Lae'zel (which is often because she's a jerk, like they all are, but she's an ugly jerk) I often have Shadowheart up front after having her cast Shield of Faith. When I get that spear from the crypt early on, I give to her, albeit with a shield rather than two-handed, because if I'm gonna have her tank, I'm going to give her a shield.

Amusingly that's exactly how I equipped and used her.

Clerics are mostly casters in my view and especially important for me is the concentration slot because there are fantastic spells available. A cleric without a shield for me is wasted potential, given how difficult it is in the game to keep concentration. That would be also the case if you went Tempest or War domain and gave them heavy armor proficiency. In my EA Shadowheart carried, in addition to a shield, a spear which gave her advantage against the target when missing, until I got the mace which casts Fairy Fire on the target when missing. And she missed a lot, thankfully, but using profane weaponry is not her task anyway. For simpler fights she was very good with the crossbow.

I'm tempted to change her subclass to Tempest domain, as lightning (and cold) is by far the most effective magic in the game. Is it absolutely impossible from the lore to justify the Tempest domain when bowing before Shar? In that case ...

It's "impossible" only if you decide it is. But whether or not we can do it to Shadowheart, I dunno. Will we be able to do that sort of thing (change her domain)?

I'm pretty sure they said Shadowheart domain will be one of the two instances in which respect is not going to be possible.

It will allegedly be possible after you meet a certain person who's name starts with a W. Which was early in EA, I was usually lvl 2 at that moment. Don't know how expensive respeccing will be. As far as I know respeccing is confirmed with the exception of changing appearance. They may block certain changes because of story reasons. However it would be very strange if you could change Wyll into a Rogue or Gale into a Fighter but couldn't change a cleric subclass. It would be better to be not able at all to change companion stuff, then.

I don't want to violate the lore too much. So I'm interested in reasons about in what you could change her why, as I'm not a DnD player and lack the necessary knowledge. Trickery domain is not my favorite Cleric domain, but you can play with it (the lvl 5 domain spell is great), so it is not mandatory to change her.

The link between cleric and deities is only a suggestion in 5e, not a hard rule (although it's certainly a house rule when I DM in the Forgotten Realms). Talos and Unberee would be pretty peeved if clerics of Shar started tossing lighting around.

PHB, Shar gets Knowledge and Trickery. You could make a case for Death, Arcana and Twilight from expansions.

Either you and I have a different PHBs or you are muddling up Selune's and Shar's domains. Selune is Knowledge and Life, Shar is Death and Trickery (in my PHB).

Rules as written, Death is an NPC-only domain, as it appears in the DMG, not in the PHB (and not in Tasha's or Xanathar's).

If the long ventured funny theory would be true that Shadowheart could be a prior devotee of Selune (?) turned around by brainwashing, what would Selune say to lightning damage? As I understand it, the gods play an important role for Clerics because the latter's power comes more directly from the gods than say, those of Wizards or Sorcerers or Paladins.

Quite right, I can't read in a straight line! Death and Trickery, not Knowledge and Trickery. Where is the Taxes domain?

I would have liked the Death domain, it's much more fun than Trickery.

It's more a case of "what do the other gods say about having their schtick purloined?"

If I can read in a straight line this time, Selune gets Knowledge and Life. Plus Twilight, which is pretty ubiquitous these days on account of being so overpowered. Selune is a powergamer!

Surely included in Trickery?

Here's something you *are* asking for:
Just take it easy for once. No one's attacking you. Agree where you do, disagree where you don't. Plain and simple.


It's not your typical healing off-tank for sure; and if you expect to use her as one of those, you'll be thoroughly dissapointed.

But once you *know* that, and play it to her strenghts, She's actually really, really cool , allowing for some creative gameplay. The Tricksy Cleric allows the whole party to join in the sneaky aspects with Pass without Trace. She can engage a few enemies with a Silence aura, not alerting nearby others - She can use disguise self to open up new types conversations - make her a Drow in the Underdark for instance. The Tricksy Cleric combined with say, thief makes for an *amazing* scout/utility cannon.


Actually, I believe you may have misinterpreted that. I think, what they said is - that certain Origin Characters have their subclass locked at start - so if you pick them as the Player Character. But, that you can still respec later, but that the game didn't adjust the story for it.

I'd prefer a straight fight to all this sneaking around.

This.
I see her as Thief/Cleric.
Cheat, Lie, Steal your way through life.
She is good in that
Paladin or Barbarian spotted
Ugluk/Lothar SMASH!

That's exactly how I use her in certain party make-ups, and I am not even slightly disappointed. I don't get why people think Shadowheart is sub-par (mechanically; personality-wise, she most definitely is sub-par). And let me head you off at the pass and say I am not saying you used the term "sub-par" to describe her. If you put her in Lae'zel's armor with a shield (and if I'm using Shadowheart as a tank, that means Lae'zel is not in my party), she has an unbuffed AC of 19, which is not too bad for a level 2 character.