Originally Posted by branmakmuffin
Originally Posted by Darth_Trethon
Multiclassing(assuming it's possible for origin characters) is more of a gray area and it depends how heavy you go into other classes too, but it creates a similar situation to respec where it's more like "Well Shadowheart technically still has one level in Cleric of Shar" but if we're being honest no, she's not really much of a cleric.
If we're going to argue about how good a cleric Shadowheart is, she's as good a cleric as you play her, since all her actions are controlled by you. In terms of the strength of the Trickery domain, it's a strong domain in PnP.

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Also the problem with saying you could interchange Cleric, Paladin, and Warlock is bad.
If they allow multi-classing of companion NPCs, Larian will be implicitly saying it is in fact not bad.

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warlocks generally do not serve gods for the most part
A warlock's patron is whatever it is in the world the GM has created. In Wyll's case it's a naked blue-skinned aerobics instructor with horns, wings and a tail. But it certainly could be a deity.

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while Paladins and Clerics do, so that's one important distinction...Wyll could not be a Cleric or Paladin and still have the same patron or for his story to still make sense. And then Shadowheart beyond obviously not being able to be a warlock could not he a Paladin because there is no Paladin of Shar subclass in the game...wouldn't work.
There is no "paladin of Deity X" subclass in D&D, either. Paladin subclasses are determined by their Oath, not what otherwordly entity they adhere to. Cleric subclasses are not even determined by the entity the character adheres to. That's determined by the Domain. Shadowheart could just as easily be a Death domain cleric (rules as written, the Death Domain is an NPC-only Domain, but she is an NPC).

You speak about the game as if it has an existence independent of the person playing it.
My point wasn't about how good Shadowheart is from a gameplay perspective at all but about how much it makes sense for the purposes of her story...she is devoted to shar so unless something in her story changes, it makes no sense for her to serve anyone else by multiclassing into paladin.

The argument that because something is allowed it is endorsed is also very bad...you could technically respec Shadowheart into a barbarian but that is not what she is at all..not even a little bit. Literally all of her dialogue and story will continue to treat her as a Cleric of Shar so all you achievend was breaking the story. Larian allows it as more of an extreme case scenario because someone will be bright enough to kill all the strong characters and try to roll with Sorcerer PC, Gale, Shadowheart, and Jaheira at which point they will get promptly stomped into the ground over and over and over because none of them can take hit...that's why respec is allowed at all, so player who aren't very bright don't get stuck in a situation they can't progress.

Next, wrong about that. Warlock Fiend patrons are not deities...full stop. If a DM wants to say you are the warlock of a deity but you still play as Fiend Warlock that's homebrew, which DMs are allowed to do but BG3 as a videogame can't accommodate that. Warlocks of deities are specifically denotated as such in their subclass like Raven Queen Warlocks...but deity patrons are very rare, and none are in BG3.

And lastly BG3 Cleric subclasses as they pertain to their deities are defined by their actions...Shar wants to literally destroy all of existence...it would make less than zero sense for a cleric of Shar to have a Light or life domain...you can try to cling to "but rules as writte..."...NO. That is a bad argument.

Origin characters should absolutely not respec or multiclass AT ALL because it breaks any amount of sense they make for the story.

Last edited by Darth_Trethon; 31/07/23 04:34 AM.