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Volunteer Moderator
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Volunteer Moderator
Joined: Feb 2022
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I am not happy with the recent changes which completely destroys the foundation the D&D RPG: Character Creation. This game was advertised and promoted to follow the 5th Edition D&D - now they want to destroy the unique and different abilities and disabilities across the the board. And they are doing this at launch! This is absurd and if not addressed in a timely manner, I will be demanding a refund for False Advertising. I can't see this change being unpicked in the near future, so if it really is a make-or-break issue for you then I guess you could try seeking a refund from Steam or GoG. Though races still do have unique features (like Lucky for halflings, and so on), it's only the ability scores that are now flexible, and with a few (admittedly important) exceptions where subraces don't have +2/+1 bonuses per PHB, most can be recreated as they appear in D&D sources so I'm not sure a case can be made for completely destroying different racial characteristics. But you know what's important to you, so it's your call!
"You may call it 'nonsense' if you like, but I've heard nonsense, compared with which that would be as sensible as a dictionary!"
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Jul 2022
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I am not happy with the recent changes which completely destroys the foundation the D&D RPG: Character Creation. This game was advertised and promoted to follow the 5th Edition D&D - now they want to destroy the unique and different abilities and disabilities across the the board. And they are doing this at launch! This is absurd and if not addressed in a timely manner, I will be demanding a refund for False Advertising. I've been there, friend. Just try to refresh your perception and suddenly it all becomes not that bad at all. Imagine hearing the rules for the first time.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2020
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I am not happy with the recent changes which completely destroys the foundation the D&D RPG: Character Creation. This game was advertised and promoted to follow the 5th Edition D&D - now they want to destroy the unique and different abilities and disabilities across the the board. And they are doing this at launch! This is absurd and if not addressed in a timely manner, I will be demanding a refund for False Advertising. Like so many other things in BG 3 it will most likely get fixed by modders. Yes, it's annoying to have to wait for mods to appear but at least we'll get a mostly 5E game eventually.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Aug 2023
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Just rename Humans to Mules.
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Apr 2021
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There is nothing humans get that literally every other race can do better when humans historically were the only race in all of Toril that could handle every class because humans were the most diverse and flexible race of them all. [...]
Compared to what other races get humans, which already were at the bottom of the races in terms of what they get may as well not exist because their greatest strength (their diversity of skills and abilities) is now shared by all other races.
These changes overall just are disappointing. Annoying that they opted for the +2/+1 optional rule based on Tasha and then not think about the balance consequences of that decision. It's also very odd that they did this last-minute change when racial ASI was in the EA for well over three years.
Now human are objectively the worst race followed by half-elf (as their previous bonus of choosing two +1 scores have been removed). Why go half-elf when you can just go elf now?
I can't help but feel the have deliberately done this to incentivize other races after they made that statement in 2020 about how the majority goes for a white male human. Guess I'm going to wait until variant mod comes out before I buy the game. Larian is obviously trying to dissuade people from playing Humans. They are so objectively weaker than all other races, there's no way this is accidental. Is Larian trying to dissuade people from playing Human? Variant Human would be super popular - because that extra feat, skill and the +1 +1 in two abilities. Are they worried about the statistics from that first community update being the same with players overwhelmingly playing milquetoast white dudes?
[...] but if that is someone's journey let them have it. Having read through this thread I begin to wonder what's going on inside the dev team? Humans are the most popular race in D&D among players. It seems like some people at Larian don't like that and try to forcefully discourage their player base from playing humans, instead of respecting the preferences of their customers.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Oct 2020
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Alright, so here's my go at it:
Traits:
Iron Lungs: Humans recover from fatigue faster than other races. They regain full HP on a Short Rest.
Adaptable Mind: Humans can choose one weapon proficiency and one skill proficiency of their choice.
We Stand Together: Humans can use the Help action as a Bonus Action.
I think this would make for a decently strong race in BG3. Iron Lungs isn't that strong because Long Rests are easy to come by, but I tend to use them whenever I do something daring (aka stupid) and get hurt and don't want to drag the party through the whole Long Rest ceremony and waste food. Human players being more likely to take risks and get hurt because they can easily bounce back seems flavorful to me, even if it's not very strong.
Adaptable Minds is obvious. Humans are the Many Hats race in DnD. I like weapon proficiency because it makes humans more flexible at playing different classes, which makes for more unique builds. Wizard with a halberd. Cleric with a glaive. Things like that. But you still want something nice for martials, so a skill proficiency lightens the load a bit on Fighters and Barbarians who sometimes feel useless out of combat while making human rogues some of the best skill monkeys in the game.
Help as a Bonus Action is really good in my mind. Just the fact this means you could get a party member off the ground with a Bonus Action and still attack is a big deal, but being able to remove other effects from allies in melee range without giving up your main action is pretty huge. It's also the most thematic I feel, because it represents humanity's greatest strength. Humans aren't as smart as gnomes, strong as orcs, dexterous or magical as elves, resilient as dwarves, or as chill as Halflings, but they are still the most numerous and powerful of the races on Faerun. Why? Because humans help each other. They reproduce the fastest and do the most to support their communities, which allows them to cultivate the largest territories and build the largest kingdoms. The Help action embodies all that.
It's also just nice that martials, who benefit less from Adaptable Minds, are more likely to be melee and thus can get more mileage out of We Stand Together as a result. That's a gem of an idea, that you really hope breaks through somehow. That last feels especially apt, like making Humans special, but also charmingly mundane. Seems very on theme. I like the idea of pulling together or the capacity to be empathetic and helpful when the chips are down, even if sorta recklessly and a bit self sacrificing. Just to do some cliffhanger style grabs for the death defying save. Gives Humans a party utility for the group, similar to races that bring darkvision or stuff like that to the table. Moving boxes around and hurling barrels as a particularly human thing to do, I mean I don't know hehe. I understand the mechanics of it from an area design standpoint, but it's kind of a curious thing to latch onto right? Maybe it'd seem somehow cooler if the bonus wasn't to the players own character but rather to their companions? Something along the lines of "teamwork" or pick-me in dodgeball, like where the idea isn't that Humans can carry the extra burden per se, but that they are just somehow better at getting the group to work in tandem, moving the boxes or barrel bombs or whatever. Basically maybe they get a quick animation that makes it look like the companion is helping to hurl the whatever wherever, with a bark or something? I could see that, where it plays more like bonus to the group with some sort of team type advantage more than an individual one. Just to capture the vibe, which I think the Help idea sorta nails. Nice call!
Last edited by Black_Elk; 03/08/23 03:00 AM.
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member
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member
Joined: Aug 2021
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I probably missed the right thread but is there any reason why after more two years of early access where racials stats where used, Larian decided "suddenly" to use this flat +2/+1 for every race ? This new system seems flavorless for me.
Notice I made an human as main character without noticing the drawback you mention. I don't plan to restart (again) my first run and will finish the game with him.
Dans le doute, frappe ...
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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2020
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I probably missed the right thread but is there any reason why after more two years of early access where racials stats where used, Larian decided "suddenly" to use this flat +2/+1 for every race ? This new system seems flavorless for me.
Notice I made an human as main character without noticing the drawback you mention. I don't plan to restart (again) my first run and will finish the game with him. If you're not averse to modding the game, there's a mod available that restores the old racial ASI. Be aware though that you still need a workaround for modsettings.lxs or the game won't start. In any case, the mod works for me and I'm having fun with it 
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Volunteer Moderator
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Volunteer Moderator
Joined: Feb 2022
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I probably missed the right thread but is there any reason why after more two years of early access where racials stats where used, Larian decided "suddenly" to use this flat +2/+1 for every race ? This new system seems flavorless for me.
Notice I made an human as main character without noticing the drawback you mention. I don't plan to restart (again) my first run and will finish the game with him. might be a better place for more general discussion of the change, rather than the impact on humans specifically. But as an attempted quick answer to your question, I'm not aware that Larian have commented on this so all we have is speculation that it's come from either feedback from playtesters or as a result of trying to align with the possible direction of travel for D&D beyond 5e, or some combination of both, neither or something else entirely! We also have this discussion of the pros and cons of racial ability score bonuses, though that predates the announcement of the changed approach. Feel free to continue the discussion in one of the linked threads if you wish.
"You may call it 'nonsense' if you like, but I've heard nonsense, compared with which that would be as sensible as a dictionary!"
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
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So noone knows why Larian decided to completly do a 180 with character creation at game launch?
I personally want Larian to give us what was advertized. The PhB options. If they also give other options besides that, thats fine. But theyre suddenly changing something thats been pretty much constant for 3 years now. And theyre doing it at launch. Which is kinda sus, to put it mildly....
Jjst give us options. It was already in the game so its not impossible due to game mechanics. Its also balanced in the pnp rpg.
Humans lack darkvision. Strong resistances. Gain no spells. Have no special movement value. Have no abilities. Nothing. And now they take even the little things humans DID have? Wth is this?
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member
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member
Joined: Jul 2023
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Humans also get a Shield Proficiency and a Skill Proficiency, which is not nothing, though they are still underpowered. The problem, as I see it, is why? Why do all humans use Polearms better than other weapons? Why do humans use shields when many other races can't? It's just a dumb change from a flavor perspective.
Half-Elves are just as bad with the addition of Shield Proficiency, which is good for Sorcerers, but why?
Shield Dwarves should at least be able to use Shields, too. Right?
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member
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member
Joined: Oct 2020
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I saw the human racials on release I simply swapped to Half Elf. Yeah they got nerfed but still miles away from humans.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
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I saw the human racials on release I simply swapped to Half Elf. Yeah they got nerfed but still miles away from humans. I dident even want to make a human as first character. But before making my half elf cleric I wanted to look at all the new options I had missed. I was....confused. lol. What I dont get is again, why. More options is always better. Why were they actively taking options away?
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member
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member
Joined: Oct 2020
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No idea it could be the designers had something personal against the pick? No idea either way whatever Larian did to humans was really low quality and it seems like you will need to mod it.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
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They made a tongue in cheek joke early on in the EA but cant inmagine they did this with intent.
I think they wanted to add this as an option and overwrote the old option or something? Seems kinda weird to do this when they said the game would launch with phb options.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2020
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They made a tongue in cheek joke early on in the EA but cant inmagine they did this with intent.
I think they wanted to add this as an option and overwrote the old option or something? Seems kinda weird to do this when they said the game would launch with phb options. The two systems are too different to not have been intentional... As I said before, I use a mod that restores the PHB racials and gets rid of the crappy new system. Not just for humans, but for all races. It works like a charm for me and has managed to quell my disappointment over the changes. Unfortunately it seems Larian or WotC are hellbent on requiring us to mod the game if we want to use the racial ASI from the PHB and other things to be decently close to 5E (2014) core rules.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
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The systems are different. But I feel that if they wanted something different they probably would have implemented it sometime in the last 3 years. Not suddenly at launch. It feels abit out of character.
Also if it WAS pushed through like you suggest my guess would be on wotc beeing behind it rather then Larian.
Doesent make it less shitty but wotc are the license holder. They have alot of say on what happens with the product.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Sep 2020
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So I only just realized the 'variant human' isd pretty much what most other DnD games use, the main bonuses being the extra feat at level 1 and +1 to two attributes in settings where the other races generally get +2 to a single attribute.
This could pretty easily be adapted into Bg3 by at least giving humans a free feat at level 1 which you could use for ability score, and then freeing up the level 4 feat for something else.
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member
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member
Joined: Jul 2023
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Giving humans a free feat and taking away everything else they got would make them an appealing choice for some builds while still not OP.
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member
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member
Joined: Aug 2023
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To add my 2 cents. Humans are almost as Terrible as Dragonborn are.
Their features are very lacking and the only thing they are good at is being a wizard or sorcerer, as they get armour and shield proficiency. However, considering Half-elves get the same + better racial features, there is 0 reasons to pick humans, ever.
Variant Human wasn't OP by any means, as some races have got some really powerful features. Instead now, humans are between C tier and F tier, same as dragonborn. These 2 races, have got the least going for them, especially in a game, so full of magic items.
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