Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Romance trigger and reactivity problems (formerly "Add a 'no horny' option PLEASE)

One thing I am currently thinking about is... there has to be bugs with some of this stuff right?

Where its accidently flagging romances, or failing to unflag romances after you reject right?

Some of this ABSOLUTELY has to be bugs... because its so fucked up.

Ok, my take from this whole discussion and romance and sex in BG3.

Was it really worth it for Larian to go there so deep? Why do you need serious romance and sex scenes in an RPG, in such a massive capacity? Especially when you're slipping into horror comedy or fantasy comedy all the time? Sex scenes don't belong everywhere and I think a D&D adventure is one of those places. Some things are better left for real life. Sometimes a game is also an escape from real life romances and you really don't want to deal with that stuff in a fantasy adventure game.

In my playthrough, after having to turn down both Astarion and Lae'zel, I found both Gale and Shadowheart quickly falling for my character and then having to choose who to pick and who to disappoint. I don't really want that in a game. (Sidenote: the "reward" for choosing SH, the big scene where she throws away her spear, assuming because of my influence, was too rushed. Her conflict was deeper than that and she should have struggled with the spear longer, bringing it on Nightsong's chest.) It's really off putting that everyone is sexually after your PC, whoever or whatever they are.

Personally I find romances or sex awkward in games a lot of the time, when they are taken to a very detailed cinematic level. Those scenes are very difficult to do in film, so how would a game studio just casually nail 20 of them? Including ridiculous stuff like Mind Flayers, bears and devils. Why does Larian always bite more than they can chew? From what I've seen these scenes also go on far too long, when the best solution would have been just one shot that would slowly tilt away to the sky. Like seeing Tav and Minthara on a skull altar but that's it, no raunchy details. Feed the imagination, don't suffocate it with details using a clumsy game engine.

All this said, there absolutely should be romance in an RPG. And let me ask: where are all the friendship scenes? Are we so horny that we forgot all about non-sexual companionship that would be far less awkward to do, but even more important? Frodo and Sam. A romance or any other kind of deeper bond like friendship between the characters absolutely belongs in good storytelling. It's the final glue that makes the game feel amazing. It's what makes you feel a companion's sacrifice or other hardship. But you can mostly leave romance on a contextual level. Show that a romantic and sexual relationship (kissing) exists. Let the player's imagination do the rest of the work. And if a player actively pursues a deep romantic relationship, when it comes to sex, less is more.

big agree on everything you said here.

they were so focused on their romance plots, that they completely forgot to write friendship storylines with these characters, and forgot to give us the actual ability to chose who we are romancing. And just have tav enter a romance with anyone they are nice to...

I sincerely think there is a series of bugs concerning dialogue triggers with this as well. Because some people are also reporting inexplicably failing to romance people.

For all of their talk about the effort they put into the romance. It's easily the worst part of the game...

DA2 had a system where people could be your friends or rivals based on approval, and then romance was separate from that. So you could have a host of characters with different relationships to you and then still CHOOSE who you want to romance. Unfortunately, Larian seems to have neglected the notion of player-centric autonomy. Now, if you do a companions quests and keep their approval high, the main result is they’ll come onto you.

Frodo and Sam dynamics in BG3 current state would turn into a very different story...

I'm still not seeing this reported stalkerish behaviour in my playthrough as yet, despite having highish approval with multiple companions. I agree with urktheturtle that we probably need to keep an open mind that at least some of the folk being propositioned left, right and centre are experiencing bugs rather than behaviour per design.

Which definitely means we should still report what we're seeing, and hopefully Larian will be able to distinguish what's intended and what's not and correct some of the reactivity.

I am not opposed to romance in an RPG. I am however wondering why it has jump straight to romance and sex. Why not build up more, start with a friendship that gets you into the NPC's story line. The friendship deepens as the story line advances and you gain the benefits of friendship. Then at the end of the NPC storyline, give an option to take it romantic so the romance and sex is the "climax" of the storyline instead of the entry point.

With a very different kind of ring.
“And in the darkness bind them.”

Maybe it is bugged. I feel it is less oppressive than in EA but still not close to what would be a realistic level - astarion aside he is deemed to be a s##t.

What I can't comprehend is why having a "I like you as a friend" option isn't possible?? We are a group of individuals bonded by trauma surely friendship and more could develop... We have a lot of "and more" and very little of the friendship thing... Maybe I am unlucky but SH is definitely into me (I play a girl and toasted to friendship?!), Gale too and Astarion well... He is Astarion... That's a WTF dynamic in my party

For all the condescending reassurances we got during EA from some people that "player-sexual companions is the fairest thing there is, the only way to give everyone all the options they want" (something I never really agreed even in general, I find it another coward case of "convenience over commitment" in modern game design) I think Larian may very well have the WORST implementation of the idea I've seen so far.

It's a thing to have all companions ready to tenderly do the buttlove to you at the first chance, as it's often been the case even in past Obsidian and Bioware games, so you get pretty much used to the trend over time... but in this one the phenomenon is dialed up to 11, with every single companion not only "willing to" but also incredibly pushy and whiny about rejection.

Which I try my best to ignore and dismiss as much as possible, but holy shit if it doesn't border into what's basically being surrounded by sexual pests at times.
And aside for the lack of "build up" (i.e. offering to drink with Helsin ONCE is apparently enough to prompt the conversation in the direction of a flirty mood) you are rarely offered options to shut them down politely, too. It's either "Please, rearrange my anus" or "Go away, I'd rather cut a limb that interact with you".

Not to mention I think something must be bugged, because at some point for instance I had Gale (which I never had any flirty interaction whatsoever, not even the notorious "magic lesson" others talked so much about) coming out of nowhere with what was basically a "Stop two-timing. It's time for you to decide: it's going to be me or Shadowheart??" to which I wish I had the option to answer "WHAT IN THE FLYING FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?", but what I was offered instead were just two options to keep him around ("I love you" or "I love you both and I can't choose") and something like "It's over between us".

Building up just a solid friendship with almost every single one of your companions should be the DEFAULT state unless romance is actively chased by the player.
And exceptions to this rule should be just that: exceptions. Isolated cases that makes sense for a specific character and theirs particular story/personality.

This as a guideline would make the game much more comfortable to play and relationships between characters much more believable. The player should have the initiative in romance rather than being forced to turn down horny companions left and right.

I wouldn't mind something clumsy like [ROMANCE] tags either for dialogue if having a drink after battle equals romantic interest or having to turn down a quick romp with an alien species in BG3.

This.

Until they fix the bugs we should have a romance tag in conversation. It is a low cost to implement this and will already solve many issues.

I think the extreme focus on diversity in sexual relationships to bring in the 'Queer community' was a mistake, and I think playersexuality is also a mistake. It does not respect the biological reality of homosexual and straight orientations - most people are in fact NOT bisexual - the reality that some people are picky and do not appreciate being approached for sex by everyone and everything plus their depraved mother. Mind flayers, really?

Adding a bunch of switches to at least keep the men and xenos at bay would be useful. I really don't feel like bro-kissing Gale just because he is showing my Fighter how magic works.

Personally, I think having diversity in available relationships is fantastic, and that playersexuality is a pragmatic solution to maximising the benefit of work done on romances and giving players as much choice as possible when there are a limited number of available NPCs to romance. Certainly, there's nothing wrong in my book with having NPCs with specific sexualities, but unless it's intrinsic to their story or character in some way and/or there are lots of options, I don't see any good reason for it to be limited.

I also think it's a mistake to think of having a diverse set of relationship options as being a feature only for LGBT+ players. Personally I'm straight, but I appreciate the opportunity to roleplay characters with sexualities and genders, as well as ethics and opinions, different from my own.

And if anyone is being forced to kiss Gale in the weave scene then that is definitely a bug. Before that happens, I think there should be two options, first to say that you want to embrace any sort of intimacy at all, and then another option to select specifically a romantic (as opposed to antagonistic) intimacy.

And all of the above is entirely separate to my mind from the question of feeling that we are being harassed by our companions. It's not happened in my playthrough yet, but even if companions were aligned to my, or my character's, romantic and sexual preferences, I still wouldn't want to be pestered. And, as has been said, it feels as though there are bugs in the game that are leading companions to think some players have encouraged them when they haven't.

Oh, and I don't think everyone is doing very well at complying with my earlier request to discuss the topic of representations of sexuality in the game civilly and with sensitivity to the fact that the subject impacts on people's real lives. I'm now going to ask everyone to actively try to avoid sounding homophobic. If you don't think you can manage to discuss the topic of sexuality with respect and tolerance for everyone, then I recommend not discussing at all. I feel I've now said that enough, so no more warnings on this point.

Agree!


I haven’t had this issue yet, either.

@redqueen

I understand the rational behind the playersexual approach. It is simpler. What I question is Larian going down that path when they clearly went the difficult path in many other places before. We could have had a more mature, adult, way of handling romance. Having some preset biases / preferences would makes a lot more sense. And I don't think it would be homophobic to set Gale as 100% straight human/elf/half elf only while Astarion would be 100% anything for instance.

On the broader topic not having normal friendship options is a glaring absence and damage immersion. At a minimum putting a [romance] tag gating the romance dialog would be an easy fix and a good feedback for the Dev team.

Deeper, and therefore unlikely to be done, approval and exual attraction are two different concepts: you can't be friend with someone you don't like but you could definitely sh#g someone you don't (given enough alcohol), oddly enormous enough bg3 childishly ties these two concepts. That's sad given the level of quality in other areas.

I'm not sure what LGBT has to do with this issue, OP was referring to an excessive amount of horny dialogue and a large amount of companion camp interactions being sexualized. As Tuco said, I'm forced to reject people quite brutally. I shouldn't have to repeatedly refuse advances from companions, it makes me uncomfortable and not want to talk to them. Also the "no issue on my end" helps no one, it's not as if we're lying here.

I don't think I can comment on this yet. I totally agree it should be possible to have non-sexual friendships in the game, but perhaps it's something that only happens later (I've only just finished act 1) or perhaps it depends on exactly what options are picked, but I'm not (yet) experiencing what others are reporting.

My PC currently feels like she's good friends with Shadowheart, Karlach, Gale and Wyll, none of whom have hit on her even once. Halsin she doesn't really know, but he's not hit on her either. Lae'zel did proposition her, but while Lae'zel then made reference to her rejection at the party, that was in the context of saying it was a pity we'd never get it on, so no repeat proposition there. My character did sleep with Astarion who suggested some fun at the party, but after that said that she wasn't interested in continuing a relationship and so far he's not tried to push it. So while I agree that some of what folk are describing does sound very off, it also seems currently unlikely to me that it's by design. And also doesn't reflect my experience of the game to date.

Of course, I could start seeing some of the same issues that others have experienced as the game progresses.

I absolutely agree. I like player sexuality, otherwise I bet you, we female player were stuck in an awful Anomen-situation again. I'm not necessarily choose romances by my own preference either, since I play a role and want to see different stories.

I don't have the problem with companions hitting on me left and right either. I started the romance with SHadowheart (the first drinking scene), but I started it by asking her, if she thinks, there is more between us.
Otherwise there is nothing going on. Astarion is friendly, despite having low approval, Gale is like my little halflings big brother, Wyll and Karlach are friendly too and Lae'zel is her typical charming self. I did the Weave scene with Gale, but did stop, when the game told me, that it will get more intimate. And he never referred to me as being in a relationship.
So far, there is nothing for me to be creeped out about. I would hate it, if the companions were too pushy too. I hated it with the Dreamlover, which is luckily replaced with the Guardian, and I would hate it with companions.
I do think, this has to be a bug, too. A friend of mine is trying desperately to romance Gale and despite having his approval high, she had no luck so far. And there are people complaining in another thread, that they can't romance anyone , the Minthara crowd seems to be totally out of luck for now, so I do think, that romance in this game might be bugged.

+1

I saw a sex scene, it was about as titillating as watching two action figures clack together and could have served the same story purpose with a fade to black. I guess there's the option to turn the scenes off, but I just feel vaguely disappointed.