Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion [END SPOILS WARNING] Addressing Karlach (PLEASE PUT SPOILERS IN TAGS)

I haven't seen the main endings yet, I only looked up Karlach's romance ending since I won't be seeing it for myself - but on general principles, I agree. For me, a good ending is one where I can imagine my character and possibly one or the other companion, depending on how their personal stories end, being involved in future stories. It is usually enough for me if the ending does not preclude that, but a little hint that life goes on would indeed be very welcome and add a lot to my appreciation of the story.

For sure, its one of the short list of issues I have with the game, and by extension how Karlach is treated. With the others at least you get context as to what they might end up doing.

No one is asking for the removal of the "Karlach dies" ending, because as you said, there is a point where she accepts it.

If you have 17.000 endings as Larian is saying, there should be an ending where Karlach actually survives without being enslaved once again. Arguing the "go to Avernus" ending is a good one is just not true as she is actually returning back to hell, no matter if Tav or Wyll is with her, she is in hell.

So even her "best" ending, is still worse than most of the "bad" endings for other companions. There are so many options to save her and they are right in front of your nose for most of the game and yet all that is done with it is "you think this story is true? im sorry, it's all a lie"

Her ending as MC, when she returns to Avernus, makes it even worse.
So let her become a squid, let her die, let her return to Avernus or LET HER LIVE!!! god damn it.

Yeah, I think everyone should be able to look at each Origin's ending(s) and think they all have their place.

When I first started to play the game my intention was to become a "evil" oathbreaker paladin, who'd just take whatever she wanted and wouldn't care less what anyone else thought of it.
Then I met Karlach a short while after exploring act1, and I fell in love with her right away and suddenly I decided to dedicate this whole playthrough to do anything to help her. Karlach's attitude was so fun and joyful and it just made my day better anytime I heard her dialogue options or her quirky one-liners in combat, she just felt so unique in this world.

However once I got to act2
And after progressing further now in the lower city in act3 it's become incredibly frustrating and depressing to try to continue onward on this journey knowing what is to come and all the things you SHOULD have been able to do to stop it.

In this game of choices I'm simply not allowed to make the one choice that matters to me.

Felt. So heavily felt. By all of us.

I played an Oath of Vengeance Paladin, multi'ed Fiend Warlock, my headcanon being that he sought power to better bring vengeance to those deserving of it. Meeting Karlach changed him for the better, made him see the brighter side of himself and the world. She was his foil, and better half.

Well here's hoping that Larian see the strength of community feeling about this and make a change. I can't see that happening any time soon though, and finding out about her choices has really sapped my will to keep playing (at 70 hours in, no less).

Just registered on the site to also voice my discontent with Karlach's ending and the whole ending of the game in general.

The whole ending sequences are very abrupt, it is weird how Larian didn't put effort into them, i honestly would have preferred comprehensive ending scenes for each companion and location than the variations we got in the main quest plot, did anyone really cared that much for the bigger reveals at the end? Most of the characters you interact at the very end felt like "whatever, lets get this over with"

Maybe its just me, but i started kinda to lose interest in the main plot during ACT 3, Larian said they dislike doing "high fantasy/high level" stuff, but it is hard not to think they already did that with the whole Spelljammer-styled plot of the game.

Here i think is where BG1/2's more open plot style works much better.

For the people that are personally sad with the ending with Karlach, not sure if you have seen the ending where Tav goes with Karlach to to Avernus, while that one isn't a "happy ever after" ending (nobody but Shadowheart got something even close to that), it is quite touching and has a uplifting spin on it, specially if pick the option where you ask her if she prefers going back with you or dying on Faerun and shes all for living with you in Avernus.

The utter lack of follow-through on that is what REALLY sucks tho. I was fully expecting a "And in Avernus, Tav & Karlach continued their adventures together, trying to find a solution to her problem" scene, but nope... it just abruptly ends your already very short and lacking ending scene.

I think Karlach is the main example of the ending problem since she seems to be the most liked character in the community, but i think EVERYONE suffers from the same problem she has, only is less or more degrees.

More than happy to wait for a future upgrade, Definitive Edition, whatever is needed to see a change. I'm sure everyone else agrees.

Yeah, I believe the abruptness of the ending, combined with a lack of CRPG epilogue type outro really harms what the game could've been, that cherry on top it needed to show us how we affected the wider world through our journey and interactions. The ending you refer to would be so much more satisfying if as you suggest, we got some insight into how things are going, rather than a single line, then an abrupt cut to black. Agreed, for sure.

From DMing Table RPGs that took quite a lot of time and sessions to end (some adventures took a year to finish), it is really weird that there's no "ending session".

It's not something cRPGs tend to do, but i fully believe that just dedicating a post-end game to solve what the party is going to do "from now on" benefits all cRPGs storylines.

Its also not a plot device used in most books/tv/movie writing, but it is REALLY important in a RPG when you know your gonna finish the story.

BG2 ToB did that (and the ascension semi-official mod further expanded on), where after you kill the big bad, you just end up with a cascade of dialogue where every companion (and story NPC that's present) talk with you and among themselves. That's where you get a feeling (and can change) where everyone's going. Some will go on with their lives, some might stay friends with you, etc.

And THEN you get the epilogue text boxes explaining what became of each character/location.

I wonder if Larian had to "rush" the game out and hadn't quite finished all of the Karlach story paths?? Maybe that's why you walk past so many options that technically should be exactly what she needs to fix her heart, but the game simply ignores them. You have no dialog options with anyone to continue her quest.

If this isn't a case of Larian not quite finishing a character storyline, then it looks like they were willing to create gaping plot holes in order to deliver a tragic story. Not good writing. Plus, it's quite emotionally manipulative to be sure to take the sunniest, most enjoyable character on the team and off them, just because...

Agreed, its totally a staple of the CRPG genre, and I was a bit shocked we really didn't get anything like it.

Based on some of the news, and some things Karlach's (stellar, wonderful) voice actress mentioned, it seemed that a lot of work on her came in the final year/months of development. So that is certainly a possibility.

You're not alone. From what I've seen LOADS are in the same boat.

I'm going to hope that's all that's going on here. Plot holes and obvious leads left unfollowed only because her story wasn't finished yet. So maybe there will be an update eventually that finishes out other other branches her story could have taken.

I'm nowhere near the end of the game (I'm only 28 hours in), so if the endings in general are abrupt and the epilogues are not there to give us closure, maybe that's what happened there too.

I also created an account to join in on this massive disappointment with the ending.

In early access, I spent 300 hours playing the game in various ways. I couldn't wait for the full version to finally come out. I even took time off work for the release, knowing it would completely immerse me, and surely it wouldn't end with just one playthrough. I went through the whole adventure with my jaw dropped to the ground, fascinated by how incredibly expansive it was. The complexity and the vast possibilities of completing missions in dozens of different ways made a huge impression. Practically all missions can be done as you want and with the ending you want, except for one...

I finished the campaign for the first time and I just couldn't believe that's how it ends. I was entirely convinced that I must have missed something or just encountered some kind of bug. Now that I know it's not a bug, my disappointment is so immense that I don't even have the desire to continue in any other possible way. Knowing how hopeless the ending is, I simply don't want to. The last time I felt such disappointment with an amazing game and a terrible ending was after finishing Mass Effect 3.

I completely fail to understand the logic behind Karlach death, as many others have written. Throughout the entire game, we are given hints that her engine can be repaired and everything will be okay. It's a completely nonsensical ending for the most intriguing companion in the game. The character of Karlach was made tragic in this game, which she absolutely didn't deserve. She spent 10 years as a slave, fighting in a war she never wanted to be a part of, until she finally managed to escape, only to be turned into a squid and losing her soul, dying, or ending up back where she started, under Zariel's wing.

I think everyone knows that life isn't fair, and in a place where we want to escape from that, it shouldn't be reminding us of this. I hope Larian sees the error of their ways and corrects this mistake, because it is a mistake and nothing else.

I'm not religious, but you get a big Amen from me on this post.

Now knowing how hopeless it is for her, I find myself closing out Act 1 and wondering to myself "Why bother doing any quests for Karlach's story? She's doomed anyway." That is not a good way to play. Part of me wishes I'd never found her character and invited her into our party. Now, I guess I'll have to watch her ending no matter what. I'm wondering if I could leave her out of my party adventures, have her always stay in the camp, not interact with her all to see if my emotional investment in the character will reduce to a point to not be devastated by her story ending. That is an absolutely terrible way to "play" that character...all to avoid emotional pain at her demise.

@Deepack

I just wanna point out once again that Karlach returning to Avernus doesn't imply she will be under Zariel influence at all, even more so if Tav and/or Wyll return with her.

While i also want an ending where she is completely saved with no strings attached. If one wants a better ending to"Return to Avernus" path, at least give us an epilogue along the lines of:


Put a static image of Karlach and some music in the background and presto, you have a follow-through on the ending we got.

Maybe yes, maybe no. Remember that Zariel is an archdevil after all, an entirely different caliber than Raphael or Mizura (and try attacking Mizura and you'll see how that ends...). In my opinion, the current available endings are simply tragic. Don't get me wrong, I don't think that one ending is better or worse than the others. Personally, for me, all of them are simply unacceptable if we don't have an alternative like "and they lived happily ever after." I understand that there might be people who don't like her and either kill her off early or just don't care about her at all. But is it really too much to ask for a happy ending? Just as easily, right after being transferred to hell, Zariel could appear, effortlessly kill Tav/Wyll, and force Karlach into further servitude. And that would be an even greater tragedy for her. Especially when you consider that for each of the remaining companions, life goes on, and they can do as they please (well, maybe except for Astarion, who probably won't see the sun again).

I played the whole game doing everything to ensure a happy ending for each of them, and that worked out for everyone except Karlach, who deserved it the most. She's the only character who's been sincere from the start, hiding nothing and not scheming at all. All she wants is to be free and live; she doesn't seek power, recognition, or wealth.

Karlach's portrayal was simply incredible; Samantha Beart, who lent her voice, did an amazing job, and she deserves congratulations. The amount of emotion that was put into this group of pixels is simply divine. I just hope this isn't the end of her journey in BG3, because hopefully Larian will quickly invite her to record new dialogues to fix what they messed up. It's up to us to make that happen.