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#878787 11/08/23 03:49 PM
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Ok so this is all wrong. I get that the tadpoles we have inserted into our minds are special, different from all tadpoles that have existed in D&D before in that they are put in stasis through the use of shadowmagic but it goes way further than that. I will put this in spoiler tags but know that I will only describe the issues I have in generic terms without going into specifics of the BG3 story like which characters are affected, in which events, or during which acts, etc.

So the game seems to treat the result of ceremorphosis VERY differently than D&D in one key aspect...too many of the mind-flayers in the story seem to maintain the full personality of the host completely...as if nothing changed for them other than their body. In terms of D&D this is unheard of outside of Illithid fears of ever being one such mind-flayer which they label as "The Adversary" but it is not something that has ever actually happened in D&D before. In BG3 there are a lot of such mind-flayers, or characters who can potentially turn and display this behavior. The game does walk it back a little bit later on suggesting that this retention of full host personality is only temporary and that once turned you are indeed on a clock and you will become just another illithid sooner rather than later but even there it leaves some doubt...suggesting that how long this would last is also down to the strength of character of the host. But here's the problem: that's NOT how this has ever worked in D&D. Once ceremorphosis is complete mind flayers in D&D are just that, mind flayers, the host is gone...there's no more time, the host is dead and gone by the time ceremorphosis is complete.

So what exactly is going on here? Is this in agreement with Wizards of the Coast? I imagine it has to be, but is this something that will bleed into the wider D&D beyond BG3? The next gen player handbook for D&D is coming next year, is this a planned cataclysm that will be adopted into the next gen as a means of introducing a drastic and major shift to how Illithids work in general? For the previous gens of D&D they had some cataclysms involving Mystra and her various deaths as a means of justifying fundamental changes to how magic works. Is this the future of Illithids in D&D? To say that at least some colonies and tadpoles were changed by shadowmagic and now work fundamentally differently?

Last edited by Darth_Trethon; 12/08/23 02:52 AM.
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There was also something about mindflayers having no souls, which unless it is a 5e retcon, is a Larian retcon, because Mindflayers definitely had souls back in the day with my 3rd and 2nd edition material.
But yeah, that aspect certainly struck me as a rather drastic departure from prior depictions of mindflayers, particularly because it's an aspect of their biology/culture that Larian changed that is so very critical to the plot of the game.

At least with the many other departures from their prior lore things were handwaved away with the excuse of 'netherese tadpoles'.

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Originally Posted by Leucrotta
There was also something about mindflayers having no souls, which unless it is a 5e retcon, is a Larian retcon, because Mindflayers definitely had souls back in the day with my 3rd and 2nd edition material.
But yeah, that aspect certainly struck me as a rather drastic departure from prior depictions of mindflayers, particularly because it's an aspect of their biology/culture that Larian changed that is so very critical to the plot of the game.

At least with the many other departures from their prior lore things were handwaved away with the excuse of 'netherese tadpoles'.
The thing that is weird and unique about mind flayers in D&D is that they are the only sentient species that arrived to the forgotten realms from outer space...they are literally cosmic horrors. Now there are all the various planes of existence and the forgotten realms that are governed by all the deities of D&D, all who fall under the rule of AO...but I'm not sure even they would know what to do with the souls of illithids if illithids have them. Illithids don't really care for the deities of D&D and no D&D deity ever govened over them as far as I am aware. So illithid souls would not likely be something the deities of D&D would even know what to do with. It may well be that illithids have an entirely different system of handling for their souls(if they have them) and potentially an entirely different deity of sorts that is entirely beyond the understanding and control of AO or any other D&D deity. They are literally unknowable cosmic horrors. So from that aspect I am fine with a deity from D&D believing they don't have souls.

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Back in the olden days lol illithids were impossible to communicate with. Their minds and thought processes were so foreign to humanoids as to make it impossible. So recons have been happening.

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Originally Posted by avahZ Darkwood
Back in the olden days lol illithids were impossible to communicate with. Their minds and thought processes were so foreign to humanoids as to make it impossible. So recons have been happening.
It makes them a lot more mysterious and intriguing to be honest. I am very curious to find out if what Larian did in BG3 was in coordination with D&D...the next gen player handbook is releasing next year but I don't think anything is known about the lore implications it could have...this could be something along the lines of a great illithid cataclysm that changes how they work and potentially paving the way for D&D to even introduce a playable illithid race so players could play as independent mind flayers not under the control of an elder brain.


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