Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Romance trigger and reactivity problems (formerly "Add a 'no horny' option PLEASE)

I wouldn't neccesarily call them creepy, but immersion breaking for sure.
I think the main issue - apart from limited dialogue options with not enough "in-betweens" and badly written dialogue choices with no clear indication of starting a romance route - is the fact that it is clearly bugged.

And I'm saying this as someone who did not have many problems with horny companions in this game.
Let's take Halsin for example - once he joined my camp I gradually talked to him and exhausted most of the options in Act 1, which were later repeatable. No issue there.
There's more content with him in act two - which I engaged with, and the dialogue opens up, IRC, when you are able to use him as a companion - you can ask him about his life and note he's quite huge for an elf (which I think prompted his later advances), and inquire about his love life - which is ONE dialogue option I intentionaly LEFT OUT.
At the end of act two, after Moonrise Towers he was thankful and looked at me all dreamy, saying there's "one other thing" he need to take care of - I thought at the moment that I'm reading too much into this, but shortly adter, in the camp, he flat out confessed his feelings for me, and when I said I'm not interested he acted all confused and basically blaimed me for leading him on, and literally referenced the one dialogue option I did not pick while interacting with him, which would be me asking about his love life. Which I did not.

Apart from that, I think Gale's scene with gazing at the stars can be, with a bit of good will, viewed in two different ways - although I do believe there's no distinction between that moment with romance triggered, and without it - and it does look a bit weird and forced, if you're just friends. Same goes with Wyll dancing scene.
At the very worst - it's just really awkward and as much as I appreciate Larian's attempts to create mature, more organic romances, I do not think they are quite there yet.

And I do prefer how BioWare handled it - which basically means that it's the player that has to initiate the romance, not the other way around - and that there are many friendly interactions outside of romance.

Not all players will be interested in all of the characters. Wyll is on the sidelines for the whole thing,I had him in my party once and I did not intend to get intimately close to him, so I don't really want to be forced to reject him when I did not gave him any indication of romantic interest whatsoever - just an example, but it's that simple.
Karlach or Lae'zel being horny and wanting to use the player for their needs kinda makes sense from the perspectives they are written (and no, not because they are women, you could make Karlach a male Tiefling and it would still make sense), but at the same time, if the player complies, it should be just that - as it is presented - which is a quick intimate interaction for the sake of sexual release. And it shouldn't be directly tied to the romance route, which I kinda think is - considering Lae'zel did not make a one move on me after the initial rejection.

This is my first post btw, I hope I have not stepped on anyone's toes. Cheers.

Yeah it seems the npcs are only capable of talking about their companion quests and sex. And often it's really weird lets face it, basically no one on earth wants to do it with a lizard man or a bear, yet everyone in this game is into it. The game haschosen to forsake legit romance arcs and believable characters to instead give us weird fetish porn.

This discussion is more likely to be constructive if people stick to expressing their own views and preferences, and recognise that they are their own views and preferences rather speaking for others or making what look like quite strong and emotive claims as though they are objectively true. Given the huge variety of opinions and tastes, and that many players and forum members clearly don't see the romances in the game as, eg, "weird fetish porn" that's inevitably and unnecessarily going to be controversial, and potentially derail this thread.

I wanted to from a strong friendship (as a man) with Gale but suddenly he was inviting me to an intimate moment? And he gets sad If I turn him down. Same with Wyll when he wanted to dance with me. Astarion... I can understand.

Larian, strong friendship do exist, not everything needs to jump into romance.

I wont say Bioware does this better because they don't, but at least you have different perspectives. I had a very cool friendship with Steve Cortez without having to turn him down.

I just had the Gale stargazing scene today, with no romance element. I just sat with him, and the next morning he said he was grateful to have a friend like me, and it was all very heartwarming. That said, I did think that we were sitting a bit closer than felt quite natural, and gazing at one another a bit more intensely than I'd gaze at my mates. I guess that is because the animation is intended to serve dual purpose, whether we're in a relationship or not? If so, then I'd agree that ideally there'd have been slightly different versions of the animation depending on whether there was an active romance, though the words in my playthrough seemed fine. I'm also note sure I'd have read so much into it, had I not been reading about the problems other people had been having and so was actively looking out for inappropriately romantic moments.

I can't speak for the dancing scene with Wyll, as my character had been flirting with him earlier (though she'd got fed up when he was so determinedly oblivious), and was open to a romance. It therefore felt quite natural, and both quite sweet and impressively reactive given he acknowledged that he'd almost missed what was in front of him. But still awkward, though I think for me because the dancing looks silly. I'm sure it's all properly researched and appropriate to a pseudo-mediaeval setting and all that, but I wish they'd gone for something a bit less prancing that played up the elegance and smoothness I'd expect from the Blade! But that's off topic, so apologies

[spoiler][/spoiler]Not looking to argue but I think many share this sentiment, it's at least worth discussing whether this adds or detracts from the game, and it is objectively true that most people are not into lizard people or bears. It's fine to have it in the game for people that look for it or who thinks it's funny, but when the entire npc cast looks on with full approval that is not realistic or good character writing.

People are welcome to discuss what they like, as long as it is on-topic, within forum rules, and discussed constructively, calmly and without heated argument. I'd suggest your comments were both not strictly on topic here, and also given that strong and emotive statements tend to prompt equal (and sometimes opposite) reactions, not calculated to promote calm and constructive debate even if it were on topic.

I'm sure many of us here feel we've had enough discussion of bear sex and would much appreciate a break from talking about it. And I don't think the thread that was created about dragonborn sex got a lot of interest. But feel free to search them and if you think you have something new to add to the debate, you are free to create a thread on the topic, and as long as it's started in good faith and with the intention of encouraging constructive debate and sharing of opinions of all kinds, I'll allow it. Though frankly I'd enjoy a few days of just talking about other things that after all do constitute the vast majority of the game, and are less likely to lead to people getting worked up, making unintentionally or intentionally offensive comments or otherwise breaking forum rules.

Yeah, that.

Like in Mass Effect...etc. you have plenty of options to be nice without immediately leading into something romance-related.
In BG3 it often feels like I either have to be an asshole (picking something along the line of "fuck off" or "*leave*" with the companion shown as visibly upset afterward) or flirt with characters.
If Mass Effect 3 dialogues worked like in BG3, my maleshep would have been banging Cortez instead of just being sorry for his loss.

With the usual caveat that I'm still only part way through the game and so there's still time to see some of the behaviour/bugs that others are reporting, that hasn't been my experience at all. My character is friends with Shadowheart (and gave her a flower), Karlach (gave her a hug) and Gale (watched the stars with him and he spoke warmly of our friendship), and none of them have come on to her at all ... yet.

I just worry when I see comments like the above that people will be put off being friends with companions for fear of accidentally starting romances. It's pretty clear from what folk have said that can sometimes be an issue, and I think it's important to identify and report those instances, but I also think it's important not to scare people off saying nice things to their companions that they might find leads to rewarding friendships when those issues don't always occur.

Shadowheart is the only "normal" option. I think she's the real main char here considering how much of her story is tied with the whole thing.

Karlach is physically unable and iirc(it's over 50hrs ago for me) she pretty much immediately voices her want/need to touch my char. (probably because most if not all people will find wyll first, so getting her in party already means doing something good for her)

Gale was a bit too close. But I started a dark urge playthrough on full release and he's no longer a problem...

Astarion is as expected so I told him to fuck off immediately and it's really easy to make him dislike you if you don't want to be a dick to everyone else. Having him in the party despite what he did when you first meet is already weird. (plus how he talks, plenty of warnings)

I find that lae'zel started saying I smell good as soon as I got to druid grove.

Halsin, at end of act 2, very easily starts getting into it when you're just asking some normal questions("what will you do next?" or something). And unless something important happens, Halsin's in-camp dialogue options were basically: "how did I do?" "I would like to get to know you more (probably leads to romance, I didn't really choose that one because I've seen enough of this shit to know where that's going)" and "*leave*"

The only ones that appeared to be in-character when they seemingly went from 0 to sexy-time instantly are lae'zel, astarion, and maybe minthara.

Don't think there's a romance option with Jaheira or Minsc, but I haven't seen minsc yet.

I try to explore every dialogue branches so it's very easy to run into flirting...etc. when I just want to know more about the character. People should be careful of talking to their companions either way, because it's not always obvious whether the companion will begin with a new line to say about what you did, and it's very easy to miss the voice acting if you click too fast(expecting a generic line).

I would like to see more sexy-time with non-companions, like the drow lady who plays with blood, or the seemingly-thirsty tiefling who made a bet on whether they'll survive to baldur's gate. Really "flesh out" the scenes(what's the point of picking between all those genital options if you can't see it in action? Especially that entire *blackscreen* one). And give more options to have a healthy relationship with companions that do not make it so easy to send wrong messages. But that costs money to do; so just adding a [flirt] or [romance] tag to those options would help a lot.

when my char and shadowheart became a couple, gale told me I would have to decide if I wanted him or her... I thought.. wtf.. when did we ever have ANY romantic dialog? maybe once, and i did not engage with his flirty behavior.

Teaches me. If a person is flirty destroy his every hope, dismantle his will to live or else he sees it as invitation... is that what it feels like to be a woman? .-.

The romance/friendship part of the game is by the least fleshed out and by far one of the buggiest (excluding the camera and roaming bugs).

Some companions can become locked out because they're missing options further down the game, other characters dialogue options reset after being exhausted, others imply a relationship where there is none. For example Lae'zel starts a fling with you, then you go to bed (after party) and can pick drinks with shadowheart or sleep (thinking about Lae'zel) LOL. Nothing happens, but the game continues to imply there's something between you when there is not. Same with shadowheart, sharing a cup of wine becomes a special intimate relationship! The flower thing is sweet, but there shouldn't be dialogue options talking about what an special relationship it is before giving such gifts or sharing moments...

Other friendship companions are basically nonexistent, you feel like their nanny/caretaker, whether its hunting Astarion's bully or watching over your shoulder so that Gale doesn't blow up.. There haven't been any interactive cutscenes that aren't about THEIR problems.

"Same with shadowheart, sharing a cup of wine becomes a special intimate relationship!"
That part actually has a few checks you can do to get a romance option.

I took 3 because 2 is a very self-centered thing to ask and a clear invitation for flirting. There literally is no option that just affirms the friendship without implying something more. One starts to question about the writers who wrote this and it's something that's been bothering me for years in the entertainment industry, that apparently there's no such thing as a bromance anymore (or the female counterpart) without it turning into something romantic or sexual. I kid you not, give Lord of the Rings to modern writers and they'd turn either Sam and Frodo or Merry and Pippin into lovers.

Sam about to enumerate more uses for po-tay-toes

Like it or not the simpler BG2 style of romances x friendships works so much better. Simple and elegant.

Err, much as I like the Jaheira romance in BG2, it's hardly simple! I certainly never managed it without a guide, anyway. And when I first played I found Anomen as the only male romance option hugely disappointing. BG3 romances and companion relationships aren't perfect, but if Larian had had no more ambition than to try to do what had been done in BG2 that for me would have been so, so much worse.

Ha, so it wasn't just me then.
I mean I don't mind the scene overall, it was a bit awkward but apart from that it was a nice moment between two people - but considering how incredibly detailed Baldur's Gate 3 is in other aspects, I think it's quite natural to expect different variants of the scene depending on the context of the relationship with the character.

I can imagine that the emotional resonance I had with characters in Mass Effect franchise wouldn't be quite as impactful if the romance aspect of relationships with them would be approached by Larian.
I mean I absolutely adore my BROmance with Garrus, he's one of my favourite video game characters of all time, a true brother in arms, I wish I had a friend like that in real life.
Same goes for Liara when I played as FemShep - I just loved how their relationship is presented when there's no romance involved, she's a thoughtful and caring friend to the Commander.

And there's no nuance like that in BG3 - I literally only feel close to Shadowheart, because I romanced her - and developing a relationship with her actually is more conventional and reminiscent of what BioWare does in their games - and with Karlach, which whom I had actual friendship-like conversation ouside of what was going on in the quests. Maybe I'd also count Gale in, as I liked what they did with his storyline and I did not need to turn him down at all, because romance with Shadowheart was triggered quite early - so we had a chance to discuss some things.
I'd like to say the same for Lae'zel - because I love everything about her character, from the way she is voice acted, to her looks, and I like her arc as well, but there seems to be lack of any meaningful interaction with her outside of her quest and romance.
Shame.

I had a fourth option in that conversation combo- along the line of 'I'm not interested in you that way'. Then he asks me , if we could be friends and I said yes.

I agree that Larian focused too much on romance, to offer for every character an option in that departement and as a result lacks friendship/compagionship focused part. I also had the option fylimar mentioned but let's be real every emotional conversation afterwards is still just a soft version of a romance. It always will have a bad taste because you know that this was intented for romance and not frienship stuff.

Like already mentioned Bioware is a good example for non-romantic compagnionship where you bond with characters without naughty thoughts or aiming for a relationship. You get the options to say "I care for you, you are my friend." Many dialog options you can choose in Baldurs Gate 3 feel wrong and don't reflect what I wanted to say to the character. And when there is an option that you think would be right the compagnion gets it the wrong way. I really miss things like having a brawl, a little drinking/shooting competition, discussion why a scientist sings, chill for a moment, sparring or simply play pranks on the other compagnions.

Now that i think of it there are a lot Pathfinder Lann situations here. Compagnions reading too much into you being nice. Some of your answer option could even be written by Lann. "2. Tell me what you like about me." .... "Thank you Lann. You are awesome Lann."