Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion [END SPOILS WARNING] Addressing Karlach (PLEASE PUT SPOILERS IN TAGS)

Time constraints are time constraints, I understand that Larian wanted to get to their deadline and show their product. We'll see how it goes in the future through patches and a possible DE.

Registered here just to post in this thread.

Finding out about Karlach's depressing ending options has killed all enthusiasm I had for this game. I'm so incredibly tired of seemingly all modern media being obsessed with being depressing, dark, edgy, ironic, or subversive. Can't we just have a happy ending for once?! I thought with BG3's much-touted thousands of endings that surely one of Karlach's would be happy, right?

Especially since Karlach is the one honest-to-goodness GOOD character in the game. She is an unwavering bright spot in a cast of characters who are all varying degrees of dark and edgy. Her presence seemed to indicate that somebody at Larian knew that some of us want to embrace the classic do-gooder hero archetype. Her whole plot line builds up hope that you can help her and that she can be free. And yet it's all for nothing and she's the character that gets the worst most unhappy endings?! The other characters can escape the awful things happening to them, but not Karlach?! That's just flat out depressing.

I've played up to the inn in the shadowlands three times. The last restart was specifically so I could get Karlach early to have her for as much of the game as possible and to make sure the romance happened. I was so excited she and my character were going to blast through the game attached at the hip. That's how great a character she is! But what a waste of time that turned out to be. I'm honestly glad I got spoiled; I can't imagine how angry I'd be if I'd played the whole game to find out all the breadcrumbs and hope lead to nothing.

And what's more is now I don't trust that the writers will stick any other landings. If they feel this kind of dark bait and switch of a wonderful well-loved character is acceptable and appropriate, then I shudder to think what else is in store. I feel like I'd need to look up spoilers for the whole game to make sure it's not dark and depressing all the way down, and if I need to do that then what's the point?!

Thank you for starting this thread and giving me a place to lay out my thoughts. I really enjoyed my week with BG3 and I wish things were different. Maybe the writers will rethink this and add a way to fix Karlach and have an actual happy ending. I sure hope so.

I am not too fond of giving a good ending to every companions just because some people got too emotionally attached to a virtual character. Having a doomed character can be a thrilling element in a story, see Cyberpunk for a recent exemple.
I admit that Karlach story isn't good in that regard though. The only conversation about how doomed she is is put under the rug for the rest of the story until the very end. Larian probably wanted to show how optimistic and carefree this character is, but forgot that this plot point is a core component of her. So people are dumbfounded to find that this unavoidable conflict eventually get "resolved" in the last few minutes of the game. Meanwhile, Astarion reminds us constantly of his condition and his goal. His story feels way more organic because it isn't a big void of nothing until players get hit by it.

I am hopeful for some kind of change to happen though, there's no way we're stuck with the endings we got and the disjointed act 3 quest.

Justice for Karlach!

I think one of the biggest signs to me, as the individual who's made these posts and such is the sheer amount of people being /glad/ they were spoiled, or completely demotivated by the knowledge, if not both. That is the biggest sign, absolutely, that something needs changing. I hope that we're successful so each and every person that's replied to my posts with a similar message is able to be motivated, and pleased with the result.

But we are talking about a game that has been putting a lot of emphasis on having choices and thousands of ending variations. Of course they should keep these current endings, but also add a genuinely happy ending with no strings attached for people who are fed up with forced sad- or bittersweet endings.

That's a way different case, as Cyberpunk is a more linear game that led to 3 different way to start the last mission, depending if you choose to be who you are, to let Johnny take the lead, or to doom the whole world. Plus you know at the beginning of the game that you're condamned.

Here the problem is, game gives you a problem, provides tons of solutions... but never let you try any solutions.
There's two different notions :
- Having a doomed character whatever you try
- Having a doomed character because the game doesn't let you try

Karlach is in the second case. It's like the game tells you "hey here's a solution for Karlach, look at this big ol' forge, look at all these metal, look at those Gondians that worked on a similar prototype", but never let you talk to them, try a subquest where they could work on a fix.
If the game was linear, well it is what it is... But damn this is a RPG with 17,000 ends, we can expect way better than a single dead end you have no choice but to take.

I can expect that if I do everything correct for Karlach with all the ingredients the game gives me all along my play, I'll have a good ending. Like any other RPG, like in real life.
And if I miss something, for example here if Dammon dies, or if I don't free the gondians, or if they're killed, without even considering talking to Mizora... well in that case I assume I'll have a bad end and Karlach will have to go back to Avernus.


And if they absolutely want to bittersweet Karlach by not solving her problem in-game (which is not an obligation to always have a doomed character in a game, especially in the Forgotten Realms world where everything is possible but anyway), so we can easily imagine a last mission where you talk to the Gondians, give them all the ingredients and they tells you "I've never seen that kind of mechanic/magic before. This is not supposed to be in that Existence Plan. I prefer not to try to repair it as it could explode instantly. You'll certainly have to go back to Avernus". Like that you explore all the options, you have the feeling you did everything you could, there's no solution here and right now, but you have an epilogue that explain the follow.


There are plenty of better work doable with Karlach, and the game uses maybe 10% of what this character story can be, while any other companion are mostly well exploited.
In my opinion, The Ancient Forge was initially dedicated to Karlach story. This is not useful for the plot at all, we could easily had a direct path from the undergrounds to the Shadows. Why do we have to explore this forge ? Why is it so detailed when it's absolutely useless in the main plot ?
But they had to cut some quests to release the game.

Is she doomed if you play her? I sort of expected the 'best' ending for each origin to be locked behind playing them, but Astaron and Laz' can get their best endngs as companons.

Craziest part is that its not even the Gondians working on a similar prototype, they created the stable version based on hers. They are entirely capable of solving the issue.

Man that's even worse haha.
I'm confident, they will upgrade her story.

Hope, and patience. We'll get there!

Man, I'm glad that I am not the only one who's a little broken by this.

Karlach by far became my favourite character really quickly, in fact so much that I decided to restart the entire game about 40hrs in just because I picked her up too late (after saving the grove. Yeah so I actually didn't know she was a companion, I just thought you'd go there and fight a boss...) so I could not start the romance with her any more, even though you can fix her engine twice.
And while I do see that there is supposed to be a tragic aspect with her storyline, I think it's absolutely awful and heartbreaking that she is somehow the only companion that does not get an ending where you can say it's clearly good so either:


No matter how you twist and turn it, none of these are clearly good in my opinion because there's no way you can tell that she'll be fine.
They could be hunted down by Zariel in Avernus anyhow, in that way I think I prefer the Tav + Karlach ending the most, because she gets to spend as much time as possible with the one she loves,
or the one where she dies because she often says that she wants to go out with a bang (although she will go with Wyll if you leave that choice to her).

Meanwhile the others:

But the Character that has arguably been dealt the worst hand of them all, suffered through years of treason and abuse, finally receives love, a glimpse of hope, makes plans for the future including you while selflessly helping everyone, no matter how hard you try, cannot really be saved.
Meanwhile, throughout the entirety of Act 3 the Game keeps throwing loads of possible solutions at you:


It just feels way too much like the possibility of saving her was planned, but they ran out of time and just cut it off there, which for me is the only stain on what is otherwise a monumental game, and that makes it hurt so much more.

I mean we completed a heist in hell while killing the owner (literal devil, btw) in his own domain, freed a long lost prince from his eternal prison which put his people on the path to liberation, spoiled the plans of three gods, killed what basically became a god and everything in between... but we can't fix an engine.
Yeah, call it simping or copium or whatever you like but in my head they went to the House of Hope and lived happily ever after, until they actually get to fix her engine or her actual heart back somehow, return to Faerûn, do adventuring, have a family and all that happy stuff.

Actually kinda sounds like a sick questline for an epilogue, find a solution and a way back out of hell. I think the heist in the House of Hope was the best part anyway, with Raphael actually being the hardest bossfight for me.

Sorry if this was a bit disjointed, I don't really post in forums all that much. But this just bothered me way more than it probably should've, since I haven't felt this attached to a game character in god knows how long, probably ever.
Justice for Karlach! Even if it takes another 40 hours of stomping through actual hell!

I'm about to throw away my first playthrough of about 30 hours after finding out about Karlach's "fate" and will NEVER have a playthrough where I recruit her.
Finding out her fate has left me sad and angry.

And only the ones that leave you with a sour taste in you mouth and a knot in your stomach.
Game just went from a solid 10/10 to a 3/10 for me because of this.
In fact I'm so bummed out right now I don't even want to play the game anymore.
Games should be fun to play.
This just depressed me to no end.

Yea thats one of the big reasons most people consider this supposed 'good' ending still bad.

Wow, this is essentially verbatim how I feel, even down to the Wyll bug. I too think the Tav + Karlach ending is the best. I had been unable to articulate just exactly what I was thinking, but this is it.

Well hello, good people, yet another person who registered specifically for this thread here.

I am in, like, the first half of act two, and like right after I got to the Last Light Inn and learned about the Big Problem with Karlach's heart I decided "screw it, I want to know" and went to Google. And like, I was potentially ready for this whole game to be a tragedy (hell, wouldn't even be surprised if Tav themselves wasn't going to make it, Cyberpunk style).

What I wasn't ready to learn was that no, everyone else can make it to some degree at least, EXCEPT for the woman I came to learn about. Whom I chose to romance. My hands down favorite character in the game. And, apparently, for no good reason and with perfectly good options being presented by the plot and left right under their noses. What in the Hells.

Now, is "coming to terms with inevitable and learning to live the days you have left to the fullest" a potentially good storyline? Yes, potentially. As it has been pointed out multiple times, however, it's only good when it's 100% inevitable and not a wild goose chase where you never allow yourself to lose hope.

Am I unfortunately proficient in writing and drawing fix-it endings after my favorite character gets completely let down by the narrative? Also yes, and by god if it comes to that I will, but I shouldn't have to in a game of this scale! With, again, plot points being laid out!

Honestly, even if there were no weirdly wasted plot opportunities - this is DnD. Resurrection is canonically a thing both in the TTRPG and literally in the videogame itself. As of 5e resurrection spell literally grows back missing body parts. Get the engine out when it gets lethal, do the resurrection, let her original heart grow back now that the space is free. It's a level 7 cleric spell. Shadowheart is RIGHT THERE.

Anyway, considering the laid down groundwork, I'll join the camp of the hopeful for a fix/update. Would prefer it to be added sooner than a whole new game edition, but I'll take it whenever.

P.S. is there any other place where I should also add my voice to? I think someone mentioned a Discord channel? I rarely use Discord, but I'm willing to go yell there too if it helps.

Justice for Karlach!

Yeah, and I'm an engineer studying to be an English/History/Engineering teacher. I feel so strongly for the Gondians getting their chance to shine as the master engineers of the D&D world.


There is, I'll link them here:

Discord Master Thread

Reddit Master Thread

Push comes to shove, if there’s enough of you with proficiency you could make a mod.

Well I agree mods are a cool thing, to modify some minor part of the gameplay, reshade graphics, using some cheats... But players aren't supposed to improve the story and the quests themselves, that's the job of the studio.
If we want to push it further, yeah modders can catch a free engine, write a story and code it if we want to push the idea to the extreme. But that's not the topic here.

That's the story Larian wants to tell to us. They ask us a feedback, we're saying they're some parts of the story that feels not finished, not polished. Here we talk about Karlach which is probably the most unfinished quest and storyline, but there is also Minthara that is heavily asked by the player to be more present even during the EA, and mostly all the endings have a lack of epicness and explanation. There is not a word about romances, very few words about the future of your Journey... Like you kill gods, archdemons, destroy full gangs, save millions people, and the next day you'll buy some milk at the market like nothing change before and after your play.