Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion [END SPOILS WARNING] Addressing Karlach (PLEASE PUT SPOILERS IN TAGS)

Hope, and patience. We'll get there!

Man, I'm glad that I am not the only one who's a little broken by this.

Karlach by far became my favourite character really quickly, in fact so much that I decided to restart the entire game about 40hrs in just because I picked her up too late (after saving the grove. Yeah so I actually didn't know she was a companion, I just thought you'd go there and fight a boss...) so I could not start the romance with her any more, even though you can fix her engine twice.
And while I do see that there is supposed to be a tragic aspect with her storyline, I think it's absolutely awful and heartbreaking that she is somehow the only companion that does not get an ending where you can say it's clearly good so either:


No matter how you twist and turn it, none of these are clearly good in my opinion because there's no way you can tell that she'll be fine.
They could be hunted down by Zariel in Avernus anyhow, in that way I think I prefer the Tav + Karlach ending the most, because she gets to spend as much time as possible with the one she loves,
or the one where she dies because she often says that she wants to go out with a bang (although she will go with Wyll if you leave that choice to her).

Meanwhile the others:

But the Character that has arguably been dealt the worst hand of them all, suffered through years of treason and abuse, finally receives love, a glimpse of hope, makes plans for the future including you while selflessly helping everyone, no matter how hard you try, cannot really be saved.
Meanwhile, throughout the entirety of Act 3 the Game keeps throwing loads of possible solutions at you:


It just feels way too much like the possibility of saving her was planned, but they ran out of time and just cut it off there, which for me is the only stain on what is otherwise a monumental game, and that makes it hurt so much more.

I mean we completed a heist in hell while killing the owner (literal devil, btw) in his own domain, freed a long lost prince from his eternal prison which put his people on the path to liberation, spoiled the plans of three gods, killed what basically became a god and everything in between... but we can't fix an engine.
Yeah, call it simping or copium or whatever you like but in my head they went to the House of Hope and lived happily ever after, until they actually get to fix her engine or her actual heart back somehow, return to Faerûn, do adventuring, have a family and all that happy stuff.

Actually kinda sounds like a sick questline for an epilogue, find a solution and a way back out of hell. I think the heist in the House of Hope was the best part anyway, with Raphael actually being the hardest bossfight for me.

Sorry if this was a bit disjointed, I don't really post in forums all that much. But this just bothered me way more than it probably should've, since I haven't felt this attached to a game character in god knows how long, probably ever.
Justice for Karlach! Even if it takes another 40 hours of stomping through actual hell!

I'm about to throw away my first playthrough of about 30 hours after finding out about Karlach's "fate" and will NEVER have a playthrough where I recruit her.
Finding out her fate has left me sad and angry.

And only the ones that leave you with a sour taste in you mouth and a knot in your stomach.
Game just went from a solid 10/10 to a 3/10 for me because of this.
In fact I'm so bummed out right now I don't even want to play the game anymore.
Games should be fun to play.
This just depressed me to no end.

Wow, this is essentially verbatim how I feel, even down to the Wyll bug. I too think the Tav + Karlach ending is the best. I had been unable to articulate just exactly what I was thinking, but this is it.

Well hello, good people, yet another person who registered specifically for this thread here.

I am in, like, the first half of act two, and like right after I got to the Last Light Inn and learned about the Big Problem with Karlach's heart I decided "screw it, I want to know" and went to Google. And like, I was potentially ready for this whole game to be a tragedy (hell, wouldn't even be surprised if Tav themselves wasn't going to make it, Cyberpunk style).

What I wasn't ready to learn was that no, everyone else can make it to some degree at least, EXCEPT for the woman I came to learn about. Whom I chose to romance. My hands down favorite character in the game. And, apparently, for no good reason and with perfectly good options being presented by the plot and left right under their noses. What in the Hells.

Now, is "coming to terms with inevitable and learning to live the days you have left to the fullest" a potentially good storyline? Yes, potentially. As it has been pointed out multiple times, however, it's only good when it's 100% inevitable and not a wild goose chase where you never allow yourself to lose hope.

Am I unfortunately proficient in writing and drawing fix-it endings after my favorite character gets completely let down by the narrative? Also yes, and by god if it comes to that I will, but I shouldn't have to in a game of this scale! With, again, plot points being laid out!

Honestly, even if there were no weirdly wasted plot opportunities - this is DnD. Resurrection is canonically a thing both in the TTRPG and literally in the videogame itself. As of 5e resurrection spell literally grows back missing body parts. Get the engine out when it gets lethal, do the resurrection, let her original heart grow back now that the space is free. It's a level 7 cleric spell. Shadowheart is RIGHT THERE.

Anyway, considering the laid down groundwork, I'll join the camp of the hopeful for a fix/update. Would prefer it to be added sooner than a whole new game edition, but I'll take it whenever.

P.S. is there any other place where I should also add my voice to? I think someone mentioned a Discord channel? I rarely use Discord, but I'm willing to go yell there too if it helps.

Justice for Karlach!

Yeah, and I'm an engineer studying to be an English/History/Engineering teacher. I feel so strongly for the Gondians getting their chance to shine as the master engineers of the D&D world.


There is, I'll link them here:

Discord Master Thread

Reddit Master Thread

Push comes to shove, if there’s enough of you with proficiency you could make a mod.

Well I agree mods are a cool thing, to modify some minor part of the gameplay, reshade graphics, using some cheats... But players aren't supposed to improve the story and the quests themselves, that's the job of the studio.
If we want to push it further, yeah modders can catch a free engine, write a story and code it if we want to push the idea to the extreme. But that's not the topic here.

That's the story Larian wants to tell to us. They ask us a feedback, we're saying they're some parts of the story that feels not finished, not polished. Here we talk about Karlach which is probably the most unfinished quest and storyline, but there is also Minthara that is heavily asked by the player to be more present even during the EA, and mostly all the endings have a lack of epicness and explanation. There is not a word about romances, very few words about the future of your Journey... Like you kill gods, archdemons, destroy full gangs, save millions people, and the next day you'll buy some milk at the market like nothing change before and after your play.

Not true,

(not putting spoiler tags for Karlach story stuff since I assume everyone here is familiar with it)

I hate writing fanfiction about how I wish a story/ending could have gone (gamers, myself included, aren't writers), but y'know what was a direction I was sure her story was gonna go in and was shocked the game didn't explore more? The idea that she was actually doing some good in Avernus and may actually be needed there. I got that sense at the beginning of Act 2 when she runs into that tiefling kid* who immediately fanboys out about meeting Karlach in person, and how cool he thinks she is after seeing her kick ass in the Blood War. I can't believe we didn't get more scenes like that because i) it shows that there are other kind-hearted tieflings in Avernus beyond just Karlach, and more importantly ii) it sets up a story framing of "her heart was never the issue; even though she was doing some good (relatively speaking) in Avernus, it's still objectively terrible down there and she wasn't strong enough to keep going." NOW, with that little tweak, her ending becomes a choice of embracing a good life and dying early, or, having gone on a whole-ass adventure, now finding the strength to persist in literal hell and be a beacon for all the cool tiefling kids who look up to her--the latter being all the easier if you romanced her and can go back to hell with her.

*edit: kid's name is Mattis, and you may be able to run into him in Act 1 to trigger this fanboy reaction. He tries to scam you or something

Just here to also voice my support!

Like everyone else Karlach really resonated with me and I echo pretty much everything others have already said.

Well, i call that bad writing. Instead of having a build up to her changing or start considering other options to stay alive, now that she has found friends and people who care for, its all down to the steriotypical "moment of truth" at the end of the game.

This is the steriotypical equivalent in a movie/book/game/whatever where a character in a precarious scenario starts to suddenly blurt out plot-changing expositions or has a 180 change of heart. Usually done to show this character has finally gone over a threshold and has changed his view on something.

The way the final dialogue is framed is too much steriotypical to not be Karlach's "moment of truth" regarding the future of her life.

I have ran into some inconsistencies as I got closer to the end, which just showed me that some things were more priority for launch than others. Considering all the history around what makes it into their games, it looks like I shouldn't look forward to patches to fix these issues.

I gave her the choice, and she wanted to live, so I head cannoned as she's not giving up yet, and is going to try to find a way to get the engine removed.

Welcome! We're all broken records at a certain point (lol), but glad to have another voice.


#JusticeForKarlach!

Alright, stop bumping repeatedly without any responses, they're not going to change it based on how many posts you spam. We get it, you don't like how it ended.

Chances are, given the magnitude of any kind of major change, it's possibility only comes with a future Definitive Edition. Larian has a good history of listening to feedback and players, we're just here to keep things on the table, loud and respectful voices.

I gotta say, everything I've read about Karlach's supposed endings is just bleh... disappointing... and I haven't even left ACT 1 yet. For an Origin character which was not at all playable during Early Access, she captivated me in an instant and made me instantly pursue her as my character's primary romance. I think that says a lot about how great of a character she is.

So hearing how this story supposedly ends is seriously disappointing, because it feels like they've written her like this; "Oh Karlach is radiating too much of a positive vibe so in order to balance it out lets give her some shitty ending where the player cannot have her, to provoke some emotions".

In DOS2 all characters had such heartfelt wholesome moments and epilogues despite their past hardships... such wonderfully complex characters, so I expected nothing less for BG3, but unfortunately the more I'm playing the more it just feels like a more polished but not-fully-thought-out Early Access that is still hoping to jam stuff in and change/rewrite them on the fly.

The game's really fun and great, but it sucks that I'm gonna have to wait till the Definitive Edition to fully enjoy all the dialogue branches fully optimized with proper outcomes that should be here right now.

Yeah, I think her "overnight" popularity, and the outcry around this whole thing speaks volumes about the quality of the character itself, and her voice acting especially. If Larian needs more time, I think a good amount of us are prepared to patiently wait. Definitely agreed that despite the flaws that come together to hurt the end of the game, the rest of it, especially Act 1 and 2 are absolutely groundbreaking for the genre, and I can only hope Larian continues support given the success of the game.

People here aren't saying that the actual ends for Karlach are trash. People are saying that her questline is so under explored compared to any other companion.
Why the game gives you infernal metal after act 2 while it's useful for Karlach only but never used after the second fix with Dammon ? Why do you free Gondians inventors in an ancient Forge that took like 4 hours of game if not for Karlach ? Why Steel Watchers tell you her heart is based on an old prototype they succeed to stabilize, and you never be able to talk to them about a fix ?

It's like all the elements are here to let you have a better way than just go back to the Avernus like it was inevitable... but wathever you can analyze in all the dialogue scenes it will led to a dead end where the choice is not really given to the player. That's the problem, even more considering a game where you're supposed to write the story regarding your playthrough.

Of course if I don't care about her story, if I fail a quest, if I miss something I can expect actual ends, everyone here is ok with that. But if I do everything correct and the game gives me all required things to save her, then why is it not possible to use it ? Why her end is so absolute ? Not like she had to confront some gods or something like Gale or Wyll. Not like she betrayed her semi-god queen like Lae'zel. There is just a bit of metallurgy to be done. And in a magical world where you can face gods and cheat death, that doesn't seem like the hardest thing to do.



There are so many obvious means to save her given by the game itself without overinterpretation, so much more terrible fates that are resolved no matter what even if it requires a deus ex machina to just save a character.... that not having to ability to save Karlach with the easiest thing to fix in the whole game, the same way other can be saved is totally incomprehensible and inconsistent.

As a player who play a game which is supposed to let me explore all the way to finish a quest, there is an unpleasant taste of unfinished...
It's like if in Star Wars, rebels find the failure in the Death Star security, conclude that's the only way to destroy it, prepare all the mission, and then without any explanation they just tell to Luke "we prefer die on Yavin as heroes than being Empire's slaves" and they do nothing, waiting for the Death Star to destroy Yavin.

If it was a side quest in the Groves that feels unfinished, well I don't think people would react like this. But we're talking about the quest of a main character, that's not the kind of quest you can afford not to finish or giving this feeling.