Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion [END SPOILS WARNING] Addressing Karlach (PLEASE PUT SPOILERS IN TAGS)

I've mentioned before but its really unfortunate how many people's motivation to finish, or even start/play the game are affected by this. I really hope we're able to see some kind of resolution in the near future. As much as we are glad for the support of so many people in similar situation, its rough to hear. And it'd be my absolute delight if what we're doing rekindles joy and motivation in people who feel this way.

Is the Romanced Karlach ending really that bad? I'm still on Act 2, but I

They wouldn't last long having to contend with the Abyss and Zariel's forces, Karlach would lose her patronage from Zariel and would not have the powers she required in Avernus to survive. The positivity of this ending would be having Tav at her side, and I believe that would bring her happiness whether she served Zariel or not. Of all the Archdevils, Zariel is the most motivated and and has little care for personal slights if a resolution would aid her in the Blood War. She would likely even allow them permanent residence in the House of Hope and to live their lives unimpeded and with dual patronage should they aid in her efforts against the Abyss. Don't get me wrong, I despise what Zariel did to Karlach, but there is no questioning that she is the most fair and least deceitful of the Archdevils, due to her dormant Celestial nature.

If Larion cares enough to resolve Karlach's questline with an ending that is remotely satisfying, it is most likely to be something involving Zariel and Avernus, and unfortunately two level 12 characters stand absolutely no chance in Avernus without allegiances and patronage. Even at level 20 they would be living on borrowed time. Karlach despises Zariel because of what she took from her, not due to her treatment over the 10 years of her servitude. There can be no happy endings in the Nine Hells, the nature of those planes quite literally forbids it. So Larian can either write a completely new outcome to her storyline that involves her deserved fairytail ending in Faerun or she compromises in Avernus and plays the best hand she's got, with the person she loves.

Pretty interesting point of view. I'm glad someone talk about it from Zariel perspective and not like "IT'S THE TRAGIC CHARACTER THAT'S ALWAYS LIKE THAT IN ALL SCENARIOS STOP CRYING BECAUSE U DON'T HAVE A GOOD END", like it was a serious argument regarding her script weakness after Act 2 and the "impossible becomes possible" aspect of the lore.
I assume that's a much "good" end if she goes into Avernus by her will rather than being forced to do it.


To me all the options should appears in the game. Because all ends should be dependent of how the player plays, regarding player success and player failure. I'm not into a railroad end that extreme in the Forgotten Realms where you can barely do anything like cheating death or killing gods. I find it incoherent at some point you can't have opportunity to repair a simple old mechanism, even more when the game introduce you to literally the inventors of her mechanism.

A bad end where she become a mindflayer (if you convince her to do it).
A dead end where she... dies (if she's alone).
A bad end where she have to go back to Avernus against her willing (maybe friendship with PC, Wyll is not the Sword of Avernus AND she doesn't have her heart fixed).
A bitter sweet end where she's the Fury of the Avernus (Wyll is the sword of Avernus/romance with PC, AND she doesn't have her heart fixed).
A good end where she can stay in Fayrun (her heart is fixed).
A good end where she can stay in Fayrun + PC romance (her heart is fixed + romance with PC)

All the ingredients are already in the game to have all those ends doable without adding hundreds of subquests or new characters by dozens. 2 or 3 more steps like talking to the gondians and provide him required ingredients, 5-6 new dialogues, 2 new cinematics and 2 new end cinematics and her story is completed.

Yes, it seems like a lot of people overlook who Zariel is or simply don't know. The Blood War is her reason for existence, she isn't unnecessarily cruel like the other Archdevils. She threw herself down from the Heavens to acquire Asmodeous' favor and patronage, so she could better protect the multiverse from the Abyss, as the Celestials were either incapable or unwilling of holding it back. We get to see glimpses of the fair and kind nature she has buried in Escape from Avernus, with her possibility of being Redeemed and reshaped as a Celestial again by the campaigns heroes. A comfortable life together with Tav would be a very easy proposition for her should she receive two powerful and committed Champions in return. Unnecessary cruelty or petty vengeance have very little place in Avernus unlike the other layers of Baator, which is why Karlach still carries some positivty from her time there, had she been serving another Archdevil in another layer, she would not be who she is, she would have been corrupted and evil, not her true, caring and loving self. Her personality survived her enslavement due to the nature of Avernus as much as it did due to her strong will and character.

While the Blood War does rage on, it isn't constant, Tav and Karlach would have plenty of personal time together, not including the time they spend side by side slaying Demons, and it is not in Zariel's nature to deny them this, especially when their motivation is a tool she can wield against the Abyss.

I love the idea of them adding more paths for her quest like the one's you mentioned, and hopefully they do, but logistically Larian likely has little motivation to go through the effort of implementing them, unless it is done several years from now in an Enhanced Edition (do we really want to be stuck in Limbo for this long?). Polishing her Avernus ending both with and without Tav would be a very effective solution. Even alone without Tav, Zariel is likely to allow her leave to see them or the other companions in Faerun, because a motivated Fury of Avernus is a much more powerful weapon against the Abyss than a subdued and punished one, and that is all Zariel cares about. The only reason Zariel hunts Karlach in Faerun is because should she die there, she will be banished back to Avernus, not permanently killed. If her death was permanent, Zariel would cut her losses and mold another Champion. Any moment she spends in attempts to punish or inact cruelty upon Karlach for her perceived betrayal is simply time she could spend looking for other tools in her war. It's inefficient, she simply wouldn't give a fuck unless she could get her back.

As a Karlach enjoyer and after finishing the game I support OP and also there is the Nightsong, couldn't Selune extend her grace to Karlach? You can even mention this to Gale and he gets interested about it.

I feel the same. I'm still slowly playing the game, hoping for an update. But honestly, I may start over and opt to never get Karlach in my party. I'll just make sure I never stumble past where she's located. She's in my party now and I was looking forward to her quests, but now that I know her ending, I don't think I can bear to watch it. So, even though I'm nearly done with Act 1, I think I should start over.

Even if Karlach should accept her fate and die in Faerun, you have still given her happiness and the comfort she has seeked. The endings suck, I'm with you on that, but leaving her to her fate and having Zariels paladins drag her back to Avernus is a much worse fate than being with her romantically or not, regardless of ending. Be strong.

I couldn't get past it. I agree that Carlach doesn't have a good ending. I bought the game just because of her. I did not expect such an outcome, because this is a fantasy game, and you can usually get a happy ending from everyone. When I found out in act 3 that she couldn't be saved, but there were still dialogues that said we could still do something, I didn't understand why they were if it was over, but probably torment me even more. Because of this, I did not perform the remaining quests and went straight to the ending. I didn't even try to save Gale, in act 1 where I gave him magic things and forgot. And then he magically sorted everything out. Where is justice. While I'm running around and looking for something that isn't there.
After that, my life became much sadder. Kind and good characters also deserve a good life, at least in the fantasy world, if in real life it is impossible. After all, she just wanted to live freely and happily, in a city where all her friends were, she didn't ask for so much.
I have no hope that her quest will somehow be fixed at least in the near future. This is real life. So I'm going to wait and read the fan fiction where Carlach has a happy ending and pretend that there was no hell or death.But if I ever have a desire to enter the game again, I will still take her to the team, I just won't kill Gortash and watch this heartbreaking dialogue, as well as go through the game to the end. Because it hurts me to watch all the endings with her.

Don't worry that much mate, some day or another they'll fix a lot of things for their game. DOS2 was crowdfunded, released in 2017 and "definitive editioned" a year later with a huge work related to the story. I let you this extract from a press article about difference between Original DOS2 and DOS 2 Definitive Edition :
"Making console versions was the impetus Larian needed to rectify various issues it had - and the community had - with Divinity: Original Sin 2. The area which copped the most flak was Act 3, the final act, as well as companion Beast's story arc, so it's these areas primarily improved.

Broadly, because I don't want to spoil things, Larian has given them another pass, lavishing the kind of care and attention seen elsewhere in the game. Story arcs have been beefed out, level design altered and dialogue added (a whopping 250,000 words have been re-recorded, Larian said). There's more to do and it's more interesting and nuanced."

They were able to do and addition of 250k150k words, recording 130k of them, modifying the game engine, modifying some game mechanics, making a console version, for a kickstarter game, in less than a year. They will more than probably do the same for a game that were in EA for more than 3 years with a so big player's community.


It may takes a bit more than 1 year to modify BG3, as some game mechanism need to be simplified/reworked for a lot of players, and that Karlach is not the only one character/story to feels unfinished. She's the easiest one to finish as any player feels that everything is already here to upgrade her path the same way other companions are developed. But you also have Minthara who is highly asked by the players, and upgrading her will require much more time.


A DLC is not really a priority for Larian. They don't close any door, but unfortunately there are few chances to see one day a DLC in Avernus or some other mentionned regions in BG3 (although it could be a super exciting DLC).
But a bunch of rework/updates is highly possible regarding the past of the studio.

I understand that everything can be ahead. But it's a matter of time, it's not known how much or when they will be able or will be able to redo the Carlach. And life is such a thing that today you live and tomorrow you are gone. It's just that next time I will never overestimate expectations so that it doesn't hurt so much.

One other thing about Karlach - I haven't played Shadowheart's storyline yet, but the other four (Gale, Wyll, Astarion, Lae'zel) all have a common theme, which ties into one of the game's overall themes: power and its price. But for the others this is a choice, a chance at great power, which they can take if they accept the potential consequences. But Karlach is just... a victim. Where's the big moment of choice for Karlach? Where's her struggle with temptation? I feel like something important is missing here.

Total fanfiction moment, but I would have been thrilled to be able to talk to Withers and somehow trade my player character's life for Karlach, or something similar. I'm all for a self-sacrificial moment if it saves a loved one. Cheap heart string pulling moment, but I'm all for sappy shit like that.

Considering Withers is the "servant" of Acererak the lich, trading Karlach soul with PC soul could lead to an epic crossover between Acererak unleashing his power and Zariel fighting this false god in the name of her Fury of the Avernus. Here comes the Doom

In all that situation, so that it would not be so offensive and soften Karlach lonely death. I choose to blow up Gale during the battle with the brain.Despite the fact that the option where they are alive and return to Avernus together seems to me softer, because who knows what might be there. But sometimes there are worse things than death.

You know what, thank you for this (and the following posts on the topic), because I indeed didn't have much context on Zariel. Just like others (and you yourself, credit where it's due), I still maintain that it sucks plot-wise and DnD-mechanic-wise that we don't have an option or a choice to struggle for a happier ending for her (especially with opportunities presented and compared to others), so to that end I'll MUCH hope for an addition somewhere down the line, but for so long as we have to work with what we have for now... That's an interesting point to consider. Will make imagining what could happen after much easier. The bitterness of the fact that she absolutely never wanted to go back there and that nothing really progressed for her character except for Tav (and being able to touch people at last, hopefully that stays) is still there, but at least it doesn't sound that bleak.

Hi im a fellow I just created this account to talk about this. Im in act 2 romacing Karlach and im glad I read this spoilers. I could write a lot but everything I wanted to say has already being said here and im not going to just write the same thing everybody is writing but I am going to say/repeat LARIAN GIVE KARLACH THE ENDING SHE DESERVES. She deserves the ending that she wanted: to live in baldurs gate with your tav or origin, there is so many foreshadowing and dialogue for solutions, damon gives you one of them in ACT1 he says: you need a way to cool the engine, are you seriously telling me that a coolant for her engine cant be created?(obviously there can be a lot of different ways to solve the problem in ACT3 but like I said im still in ACT2)

Larian I know you love choices and consequences and I do too so with that in mind:

here are 2 ways this could be solved from the top of my head without doing many spoilers:

1) the obvious one is that somebody in baldur gate can create it but you have a choice: fix karlach enging so she can stay in baldur gate forever or they can give you this amazing weapon/armor but not both because it uses some item that there is only one in the entire game.

2) there is a spell called wish in DnD it is even used in this game in some specific way by a specific person so the spell exists in the game. Have a quest where there is an object that can cast the wish spell but the object selfs destruct after using the spell and there is only one of this objects in the entire game, make it so the object has other choices besides the karlach one so the choice has weight. An evil of selfish tav or origin may use the wish for himself.

finally to finish I just want to say #JusticeForKarlach.

Well, I did the ending where


I was surprised at how (relatively) well that turned out. She seems happy. Everyone sings her praises. There are no ominous hints about her future. And, in my game at least, there is


Is this... a happy ending? Hmmm.

Becoming a mindflayer is not a good end for anyone, as you become more and more a brain eater that doesn't remember who he was in a short time. We assume at the very end any people becoming a mindflayer has a bad end.

There are TWO exceptions we meet in this game. Two that claim to be exceptions, anyway. I'm not sure if Larian is playing fast and loose with the lore (entirely possible, they do it elsewhere) or if being free of an elder brain's influence means retaining more of yourself.