Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion [END SPOILS WARNING] Addressing Karlach (PLEASE PUT SPOILERS IN TAGS)

Not true,

If you're referring to
The main point we're making is that the means to fix her are presented to us clear as day, and we aren't allowed to pursue them.

(not putting spoiler tags for Karlach story stuff since I assume everyone here is familiar with it)

I hate writing fanfiction about how I wish a story/ending could have gone (gamers, myself included, aren't writers), but y'know what was a direction I was sure her story was gonna go in and was shocked the game didn't explore more? The idea that she was actually doing some good in Avernus and may actually be needed there. I got that sense at the beginning of Act 2 when she runs into that tiefling kid* who immediately fanboys out about meeting Karlach in person, and how cool he thinks she is after seeing her kick ass in the Blood War. I can't believe we didn't get more scenes like that because i) it shows that there are other kind-hearted tieflings in Avernus beyond just Karlach, and more importantly ii) it sets up a story framing of "her heart was never the issue; even though she was doing some good (relatively speaking) in Avernus, it's still objectively terrible down there and she wasn't strong enough to keep going." NOW, with that little tweak, her ending becomes a choice of embracing a good life and dying early, or, having gone on a whole-ass adventure, now finding the strength to persist in literal hell and be a beacon for all the cool tiefling kids who look up to her--the latter being all the easier if you romanced her and can go back to hell with her.

*edit: kid's name is Mattis, and you may be able to run into him in Act 1 to trigger this fanboy reaction. He tries to scam you or something

Just here to also voice my support!

Like everyone else Karlach really resonated with me and I echo pretty much everything others have already said.

Well, i call that bad writing. Instead of having a build up to her changing or start considering other options to stay alive, now that she has found friends and people who care for, its all down to the steriotypical "moment of truth" at the end of the game.

This is the steriotypical equivalent in a movie/book/game/whatever where a character in a precarious scenario starts to suddenly blurt out plot-changing expositions or has a 180 change of heart. Usually done to show this character has finally gone over a threshold and has changed his view on something.

The way the final dialogue is framed is too much steriotypical to not be Karlach's "moment of truth" regarding the future of her life.

I have ran into some inconsistencies as I got closer to the end, which just showed me that some things were more priority for launch than others. Considering all the history around what makes it into their games, it looks like I shouldn't look forward to patches to fix these issues.

I gave her the choice, and she wanted to live, so I head cannoned as she's not giving up yet, and is going to try to find a way to get the engine removed.

Welcome! We're all broken records at a certain point (lol), but glad to have another voice.


#JusticeForKarlach!

Alright, stop bumping repeatedly without any responses, they're not going to change it based on how many posts you spam. We get it, you don't like how it ended.

Chances are, given the magnitude of any kind of major change, it's possibility only comes with a future Definitive Edition. Larian has a good history of listening to feedback and players, we're just here to keep things on the table, loud and respectful voices.

I gotta say, everything I've read about Karlach's supposed endings is just bleh... disappointing... and I haven't even left ACT 1 yet. For an Origin character which was not at all playable during Early Access, she captivated me in an instant and made me instantly pursue her as my character's primary romance. I think that says a lot about how great of a character she is.

So hearing how this story supposedly ends is seriously disappointing, because it feels like they've written her like this; "Oh Karlach is radiating too much of a positive vibe so in order to balance it out lets give her some shitty ending where the player cannot have her, to provoke some emotions".

In DOS2 all characters had such heartfelt wholesome moments and epilogues despite their past hardships... such wonderfully complex characters, so I expected nothing less for BG3, but unfortunately the more I'm playing the more it just feels like a more polished but not-fully-thought-out Early Access that is still hoping to jam stuff in and change/rewrite them on the fly.

The game's really fun and great, but it sucks that I'm gonna have to wait till the Definitive Edition to fully enjoy all the dialogue branches fully optimized with proper outcomes that should be here right now.

Yeah, I think her "overnight" popularity, and the outcry around this whole thing speaks volumes about the quality of the character itself, and her voice acting especially. If Larian needs more time, I think a good amount of us are prepared to patiently wait. Definitely agreed that despite the flaws that come together to hurt the end of the game, the rest of it, especially Act 1 and 2 are absolutely groundbreaking for the genre, and I can only hope Larian continues support given the success of the game.

People here aren't saying that the actual ends for Karlach are trash. People are saying that her questline is so under explored compared to any other companion.
Why the game gives you infernal metal after act 2 while it's useful for Karlach only but never used after the second fix with Dammon ? Why do you free Gondians inventors in an ancient Forge that took like 4 hours of game if not for Karlach ? Why Steel Watchers tell you her heart is based on an old prototype they succeed to stabilize, and you never be able to talk to them about a fix ?

It's like all the elements are here to let you have a better way than just go back to the Avernus like it was inevitable... but wathever you can analyze in all the dialogue scenes it will led to a dead end where the choice is not really given to the player. That's the problem, even more considering a game where you're supposed to write the story regarding your playthrough.

Of course if I don't care about her story, if I fail a quest, if I miss something I can expect actual ends, everyone here is ok with that. But if I do everything correct and the game gives me all required things to save her, then why is it not possible to use it ? Why her end is so absolute ? Not like she had to confront some gods or something like Gale or Wyll. Not like she betrayed her semi-god queen like Lae'zel. There is just a bit of metallurgy to be done. And in a magical world where you can face gods and cheat death, that doesn't seem like the hardest thing to do.



There are so many obvious means to save her given by the game itself without overinterpretation, so much more terrible fates that are resolved no matter what even if it requires a deus ex machina to just save a character.... that not having to ability to save Karlach with the easiest thing to fix in the whole game, the same way other can be saved is totally incomprehensible and inconsistent.

As a player who play a game which is supposed to let me explore all the way to finish a quest, there is an unpleasant taste of unfinished...
It's like if in Star Wars, rebels find the failure in the Death Star security, conclude that's the only way to destroy it, prepare all the mission, and then without any explanation they just tell to Luke "we prefer die on Yavin as heroes than being Empire's slaves" and they do nothing, waiting for the Death Star to destroy Yavin.

If it was a side quest in the Groves that feels unfinished, well I don't think people would react like this. But we're talking about the quest of a main character, that's not the kind of quest you can afford not to finish or giving this feeling.

What's the harm in trying, though? The current way the game handles the ending shows some indications of not being quite as carefully made and polished as the rest of the game, and Karlach's end in particular is a rushed mess that attempts to create a "tragic end" without the necessary buildup.

It's a bit of lazy story telling (probably done by necessity due to the time limits involved in creating Karlach) in a game that is otherwise done really well, which is why it stands out. But it just does not feel as well written as the rest of the game. You don't care and that's perfectly fine. You don't have to. But some of us do care and who are you to tell us we shouldn't?

And yes, I use the word lazy here. Not because Larian is lazy, but because that's what it is when you just pull the trigger on a plot device that you've constantly indicated that it is within the character's means to solve. It is on par with a Star Trek show dumping a red shirt out an airlock just to show how serious a situation is. It's a shameful end to Karlach, but frankly it would have been a shameful end to anyone. Imagine if Gale's condition had just gone off moments before his resolution? Imagine if Shadowheart thinks she's going to finally be fine but then all the mucking with her mind gives her an aneurysm? Those endings would be entirely comparable with Karlach's present ending, and they would be just as much BS.

If Karlach's end is to mean something then there has to be the right buildup for it. At present that buildup is not there. Effectively it just becomes a "screw you" moment, where the game punish players for caring enough to help her.

I'm so thankful that I discovered this before purchasing it, don't get me wrong it looks like an amazing game and absolutely worth it, but I simply can't bear the heartbreak of not having a true good ending for the only character I was interested in. It might seem silly but I really can't justify spending money and time into something that doesn't go anywhere satisfying (to me), even worse if you are given false hope throughout the game.

Ok, it was very hard to register account here. Gmail didnt worked, so i created new account in Yahoo.
We all were promised how many different outcomes we can get and you gave us another Mass Effect 3. I wont lie- game is beautifull, story is good, visualisations stuning. I always planned my that 1st playthrough will be with Karlach as companion and second- Shadowheart. I've picked Karlach 1st because i expected that we will see how this character can or cannot be saved. Thats why so many thinked that its a bug to get all three bad endings. Why did it happen? I always said - im old enough and i never fall in love with characters, i never simped on one, i'm just guy who likes good story and RP. Do you wanted to creat bittersweet ending? Thats ok. Look Assasins Creed2 Revelation. Do you wanted to create really bad ending - that's ok too. Good ending- easiest one. BG3 had so many hints that something can be done, but it wasn't. Our choices didnt matter. Story must have some closur. Black screen after some words isnt closure. You perfectly know that if you have players romance options, everyone will expect happy ending. Why not give some more endings, where eveyone can choose if they want to live happily after, or get sad ending? If you giving us companion like Karlach you must expect that everyone will like her. Would it be only NPc - no one cared much.
Im still not regreting that BG3 was insta buy for me, i've never doubted that it will be worth every cent. But, guys, you really can do better. I really hope that you just didnt had enough time.

Leeeet's hope we don't have to wait for a Definitive Edition for changes like these in one of the most popular PC game launches ever. In practice it should be no different than Elden Ring patching in the missing content for NPC quests that didn't exist in the game files beforehand (though I realize with dialogue and choice-based games like this it's a rather more complicated effort). It'd be nice not to have to wait a year for it (generously, BG3 is quite a bit bigger than DOS2 was so it could well take longer if they go the Definitive Edition route again), since as pointed out the plot beats for better solutions in her quests already exist in the game. But, and I know I'm not the first person to say it but damn is it ever true, at least Karlach's content is all properly hooked in and flagged to activate correctly. The comparison to Minthara's content disaster isn't entirely fair but... could'a been worse.

If we're being REALLY optimistic, maybe the PS5 launch will come with a simultaneous PC patch for these problems. How lucky would the people waiting for the PS5 version be, to never have to know the problem existed.

I think people are overlooking the Avernus with Tav option. Knowing Zariel in DnD lore, she would accept them both as Champions, and they could fight the Blood War together. While this seems like a cruel fate for Karlach, from her dialogue we can see that she didn't run from Avernus because she was a 'slave', she ran because she was alone, having her chance at love and connections stolen by being stowed away into a realm of heartless Devils (enforced by her Compassionate approval tag). She had respect and titles (Demonbane), Mazora was jealous of how much Zariel favored Karlach over others, and Karlach admits that she enjoyed fighting demons (further enforced by her Violent approval tag).

It would be very in character for Zariel to forget about Karlach's insubordination should she come back to her willingly, and pretty much guaranteed with Tav offering themselves as another Champion (A base level 12 character with direct patronage from a Lesser Deity is extremely powerful, even more so in the Deity's own realm of influence). It is bitter sweet, and horribly resolved in the actual game with no sliders or post credit scene or quick in-game battle against Demons surrounded by friendly Pit Fiends etc., but Tav and Karlach continuing their lives and romance as Champions of Zariel is not a bad fate by any means, and would cure Karlach of the loneliness that ate at her in Avernus. The main issue with this ending is the execution, the Soprano's style fade-to-black with no shown or implied resolution. For all we know Zariel immediately kills Tav and forces them into a soulcoin to punish Karlach (very unlikely, Zariel puts protecting the multiverse from the Abyss above all else) or they arrive in Avernus and immediately run for their lives being hunted like rabbits. The resolution isn't there, their fates are left to interpretation which in other stories can work, but doesn't work here.

Now I'm not saying that she shouldn't have a more difficult resolution to her quest that sees her live happily in Fayrun alone or with a romanced Tav, she should. Returning to Avernus with Tav should be an outcome from a quest-fail state combined with a successful romance, not the best outcome. However it's the best outcome we get, and knowing DnD lore, their fate would not be a terrible one. They get to have their fairytale romance in the downtime between fighting in the Blood War. We are just not shown this, and Larian failed to resolve the storyline they implemented with poor execution rather than poor ideas.

Hope is one thing, but given this change may require additional writing, voice acting, animation and so on, I definitely don't want to come across as impatient or ignorant to the work that'd go into it. If we get it in the few months? Happy days. But I can also understand if it were to take a year.

I did cover the Avernus ending (somewhat extensively, with options) in my original post. Fact of the matter is for the entire game (until that end), Karlach is adamant in not only her refusal to return to Avernus, but also returning to Zariel's servitude as the 'Fury of Avernus'. That simply wouldn't be any shade of positive ending for the character. Best case scenario, Larian forges a good ending from the pieces left on the table in Act 3, and allows us to fix her heart. But second to that, the House of Hope, Doomslaying through Zariel's forces and demons in Avernus, some kind of positive epilogue. But certainly not serving Zariel in any capacity.