After playing a while it's rather obvious that Larian created a game that is very much built in the same style as their previous titles , small cramped adventure areas that are full to the brim with stuff just precisly everywhere!
,You go from the druid area and a couple of mouseclicks later there is a completly burning building and a couple of mouseclicks later there is like the hyenas in one direction and a collpsed bridge in another wich leads to the small farm areas with the windmill ..
What I'm trying to say is that this isn't a very realistic world it's more like a very tiny area with problems all over the place and no one seems to bother that a huge spaceship has crashed and risks setting the entire forest on fire , there is like problems in all possible directions , no large forests , deserts , tundras, just tiny but highly detailed adventure areas with a specific road a normal party "must" take to not be overwhelmed , sure you can go everywhere but you will at one point or the other be forced to take another path (reload) or you will be slaughtered.
Larian gives good indications of those areas since the game starts to auto save in the middle of nowhere and one click later a group of hyenas is showing up..Its like they knew people would stumble into these encounters at the wrong time ..A beach that has a door ? That is untouched , It's a normal wooden door , and Inside is a long forgotten temple ? Doesn't the inhabitants of this world have sight ?
But for me this just makes the game world strange and i loose interest and Immersion drops by all the reloading , sure I cann just go with the flow and have half my party dead by these hyenas at lvlel 2-3 or the gith with dragon at the bridge if I accidently say the wrong things to them and they attack..reload , reload , reload
It was the same with Larians earlier games , If you have to reload so much it's not good gamedesign , It's design that is reliant on people reloading , to battle this your companions is sometimes trying to warn you of things up ahead but the warnings are all very quick and sometimes they drown in so much other stuff your bound to wallk straight into that trap or ambush , reload
Yes , the individual encounters are very well done , really well done !! It's just they would have been much better in a map system like the old Baldurs Gate , we could have had the crash site as one map, the druid/tiefling encampment as another and so o , this alone would have created a much more realistic world by putting some distance to each site of interesst and also create some land
Theme park maps, not the best choice for an RPG. Separate areas that have travel time between them and a world map for scale is the tried and true method for RPG's that want to have a believable immersive world.
Some empty space in wilderness areas is also needed to create any sense of exploration and.. well, wilderness. Larian are too concerned with player convenience and jam packing their areas with secrets, containers for loot and special locations to the point where it's just not believable any more. Cities and dungeons and great, but the Wilderness and the Shadow Cursed lands are not. Larian's outdoor areas are so dense they actually feel the same as indoor areas.
Yes , they are truly dence and It makes me not wanting to play their games, It's also becomes a game of trial and error on every second mouseclick hence the reloading comments , I'm not a stranger to reloading my game when it's needed but since their game is built this way there isn't much possibility to scout , you scout by ending up in the encounters , then you reload and consider if you wish to properly enter the encounter or not , trial and error ..Also , If the game just had chosen the best characther for the job in dialogues it would have made several encounters much more doable, again reload since I ended up having the least charismatic of the bunch as active characther..
I have to disagree with this and say that the smaller areas with more stuff is better.
Having to spend 30 minutes just running from one quest to the next is an annoying colossal waste of time.
The fact that the maps in BG3 are 'small', yet contain so much stuff and the game lasts as long as it does means you always have something to do without wasting time running around.
One of the Final Fantasy MMO's top reason for negative reviews was how empty the game world was. Massive maps with nothing in them, and there were loads of meme videos and gifs of sped up running around for ages until finally you found something interesting.
Which is boring and crap and no one enjoys it. So many developers just create huge maps devoid of any content to make the game look bigger. Instead its simply underwhelming, lacklustre and boring.
I have to disagree with this and say that the smaller areas with more stuff is better.
Having to spend 30 minutes just running from one quest to the next is an annoying colossal waste of time.
The fact that the maps in BG3 are 'small', yet contain so much stuff and the game lasts as long as it does means you always have something to do without wasting time running around.
One of the Final Fantasy MMO's top reason for negative reviews was how empty the game world was. Massive maps with nothing in them, and there were loads of meme videos and gifs of sped up running around for ages until finally you found something interesting.
Which is boring and crap and no one enjoys it. So many developers just create huge maps devoid of any content to make the game look bigger. Instead its simply underwhelming, lacklustre and boring.
Then by your take, why even have a world to explore? Why have a map even? We should just click on locations, fight, get the loot and move on?
I am 100% sure people here are not saying to make a HUGE empty map that takes 30 minutes to travel. They are saying, SPACE THINGS OUT a little more. This isnt a Witcher/Zelda game but a top down RPG. I wouldn't of minded a wilderness zone in between the crash site and the druid cove that adds a bit more of a living WORLD to explore. A world which has distances and time, something that adds a bit more immersion. If you do not care for that, just fast travel to you heart's content.
Last edited by Count Turnipsome; 17/08/2312:39 PM.
It just reminded me of the bowl of goat's milk that old Winthrop used to put outside his door every evening for the dust demons. He said the dust demons could never resist goat's milk, and that they would always drink themselves into a stupor and then be too tired to enter his room..
I have to disagree with this and say that the smaller areas with more stuff is better.
Having to spend 30 minutes just running from one quest to the next is an annoying colossal waste of time.
The fact that the maps in BG3 are 'small', yet contain so much stuff and the game lasts as long as it does means you always have something to do without wasting time running around.
One of the Final Fantasy MMO's top reason for negative reviews was how empty the game world was. Massive maps with nothing in them, and there were loads of meme videos and gifs of sped up running around for ages until finally you found something interesting.
Which is boring and crap and no one enjoys it. So many developers just create huge maps devoid of any content to make the game look bigger. Instead its simply underwhelming, lacklustre and boring.
Then by your take, why even have a world to explore? Why have a map even? We should just click on locations, fight, get the loot and move on?
I am 100% people here are not saying to make a HUGE empty map that takes 30 minutes to travel. They are saying, SPACE THINGS OUT a little more. This isnt a Witcher/Zelda game but a top down RPG. I wouldn't of minded a wilderness zone in between the crash site and the druid cove that adds a bit more of a living WORLD to explore. A world which as distances and time, something that adds a bit more immersion. If you do not care for that, just fast travel to you heart's content.
Whats the point in exploring if theres nothing to explore? Spacing things out means those spaces are empty.
Theres nothing immersive about a larger map without anything in it.
The game already takes up 122 Gb install space, its clearly not a small game. Make all the maps bigger? So you would be fine if the game was 500 Gb and needing to go on an SSD?
You can learn this from just about every other game that already exists, players just want to get to the quest and do the quest. They don't want to waste time frolicking around a load of empty fields of daisys.
There are trees, the sound of wind, wild animals running ...maybe a beautiful spot to sit down next to a waterfall. Oh, whats that beneath the water, some forgotten ring sits there in the deep...a backpack lies there. Inside a book of lore of xxx. Back on the road, you here howls...its dusk turning to nightime. There could be some kind of minor encounter with goblin scouts? Wild animals in the area? Seek shelter in a cave on top of a hill...Its nightime. From on top, you see a cloaked figure arriving from the north in great haste, then he disappears...in his sted now stands a huge menacing bear smelling tracks...yours maybe? or the goblin scouts?
What Im saying is, these wilderness area don't have to be completely EMPTY. They add atmosphere and immersion to the game. Something to make you feel that your on an ADVENTURE and traveling.
The way Larian designed all the maps feels like you are on a Disney Land sightseeing train on a boardgame. Everything is stuffed in together with no sense of time nor scale. Doesn't mean its not fun, its just a different gaming experience.
Last edited by Count Turnipsome; 17/08/2312:57 PM.
It just reminded me of the bowl of goat's milk that old Winthrop used to put outside his door every evening for the dust demons. He said the dust demons could never resist goat's milk, and that they would always drink themselves into a stupor and then be too tired to enter his room..
There are trees, the sound of wind, wild animals running ...maybe a beautiful spot to sit down next to a waterfall. Oh, whats that beneath the water, some forgotten ring sits there in the deep...a backpack lies there. Inside a book of lore of xxx. Back on the road, you here howls...its dusk turning to nightime. There could be some kind of minor encounter with goblin scouts? Wild animals in the area? Seek shelter in a cave on top of a hill...Its nightime. From on top, you see a cloaked figure arriving from the north in great haste, then he disappears...in his sted now stands a huge menacing bear smelling tracks...yours maybe? or the goblin scouts?
What Im saying is, these wilderness area don't have to be completely EMPTY. They add atmosphere and immersion to the game. Something to make you feel that your on an ADVENTURE and traveling.
You already have that in the game, but feel free to keep dreaming of that 500 Gb install size that no one else would be happy with.
There are trees, the sound of wind, wild animals running ...maybe a beautiful spot to sit down next to a waterfall. Oh, whats that beneath the water, some forgotten ring sits there in the deep...a backpack lies there. Inside a book of lore of xxx. Back on the road, you here howls...its dusk turning to nightime. There could be some kind of minor encounter with goblin scouts? Wild animals in the area? Seek shelter in a cave on top of a hill...Its nightime. From on top, you see a cloaked figure arriving from the north in great haste, then he disappears...in his sted now stands a huge menacing bear smelling tracks...yours maybe? or the goblin scouts?
What Im saying is, these wilderness area don't have to be completely EMPTY. They add atmosphere and immersion to the game. Something to make you feel that your on an ADVENTURE and traveling.
You already have that in the game, but feel free to keep dreaming of that 500 Gb install size that no one else would be happy with.
BG2 did it. Its a 4GB and a 300h+ RPG adventure. Has 18 companions, romances, strongholds, has many spells etc...
For BG3 ...Cinematics dialogues and voices I would say is the bulk of that huge game size. Not the maps.
Last edited by Count Turnipsome; 17/08/2301:08 PM.
It just reminded me of the bowl of goat's milk that old Winthrop used to put outside his door every evening for the dust demons. He said the dust demons could never resist goat's milk, and that they would always drink themselves into a stupor and then be too tired to enter his room..
There are trees, the sound of wind, wild animals running ...maybe a beautiful spot to sit down next to a waterfall. Oh, whats that beneath the water, some forgotten ring sits there in the deep...a backpack lies there. Inside a book of lore of xxx. Back on the road, you here howls...its dusk turning to nightime. There could be some kind of minor encounter with goblin scouts? Wild animals in the area? Seek shelter in a cave on top of a hill...Its nightime. From on top, you see a cloaked figure arriving from the north in great haste, then he disappears...in his sted now stands a huge menacing bear smelling tracks...yours maybe? or the goblin scouts?
What Im saying is, these wilderness area don't have to be completely EMPTY. They add atmosphere and immersion to the game. Something to make you feel that your on an ADVENTURE and traveling.
You already have that in the game, but feel free to keep dreaming of that 500 Gb install size that no one else would be happy with.
BG2 did it. Its a 4GB and a 300h+ RPG adventure. Has 18 companions, romances, strongholds, has many spells etc...
For BG3 ...Cinematics dialogues and voices I would say is the bulk of that huge game size. Not the maps.
BG2 also had zero graphics and static backgrounds drawn in paint lol. You really don't understand game development do you?
I'm sure you would have also been fine if the game needed another 3 years in development just to make it even bigger.
Try watching this relevant video:
'A meaningful, smaller world >>>> a massive, open world'
BG3 also has vertical exploration, I'm not even sure any other games have this. A smaller map but with far more stuff in it because you can also go up and down.
That's just the way it is, it has become an interactive movie with no room for imagination, but the financial success proves the company right. There's no point in complaining here. This is probably the direction that sells best. Maybe there will be an edit mode at some point, in which user-generated worlds or stories (w/o movie cut scenes) can be created based on the already developed, very good combat engine, and Larian could still make money with fan created worlds that way, would be a win-win. Maybe in a few years, who knows...
I have to disagree with this and say that the smaller areas with more stuff is better.
Having to spend 30 minutes just running from one quest to the next is an annoying colossal waste of time.
The fact that the maps in BG3 are 'small', yet contain so much stuff and the game lasts as long as it does means you always have something to do without wasting time running around.
One of the Final Fantasy MMO's top reason for negative reviews was how empty the game world was. Massive maps with nothing in them, and there were loads of meme videos and gifs of sped up running around for ages until finally you found something interesting.
Which is boring and crap and no one enjoys it. So many developers just create huge maps devoid of any content to make the game look bigger. Instead it’s simply underwhelming, lacklustre and boring.
I have to disagree with this and say that the smaller areas with more stuff is better.
Having to spend 30 minutes just running from one quest to the next is an annoying colossal waste of time.
The fact that the maps in BG3 are 'small', yet contain so much stuff and the game lasts as long as it does means you always have something to do without wasting time running around.
One of the Final Fantasy MMO's top reason for negative reviews was how empty the game world was. Massive maps with nothing in them, and there were loads of meme videos and gifs of sped up running around for ages until finally you found something interesting.
Which is boring and crap and no one enjoys it. So many developers just create huge maps devoid of any content to make the game look bigger. Instead it’s simply underwhelming, lacklustre and boring.
Agree! I love Larian’s map design!
Me too. They cram a lot in and that makes it engaging to explore. I was so bored by Pillars of Eternity’s map design. This isn’t realistic, but it’s a turn based, primarily too down RPG. The presentation is inherently abstract. I’m cool with Larian leaning into it.
Empty maps with nothing to explore is bad design. There are no map encounters at least from what I have seen in Act 1. You could argue that there are a few in the Underdark but they seem more like box-ticking by Larian: spectator - tick; bulette - tick; hook horrors - tick.
All those pointless empty jars probably account for a fair whack of the 122GB. That and the unnecessarily convoluted/complicated plot.
I agree with pretty much everything the OP said.
On a related note, I recently watched a vid of a YT-er defending the Emerald Grove against Minthara and her goblin 'army'. No sign of any druid, just the tieflings. I also noted, though the YT-er didn't, that there were two firewine barrels nicely placed on the ramparts to hurl at the goblins who arrive nicely packed within throwing range. There was also another barrel nicely placed to drop on any enemies as they emerged from the passage behind the main gate.
Larian are masters of form over substance - they talk a good game but don't do anything really well. They made a big play of releasing the game ahead of schedule then spend the first post-release week cranking out three hotfixes dealing with almost 500 bugs. They are now up to four hotfixes and the last three have caused havoc with users of the Steam version.
Look folks , most of you doesn't seem to really grasp why this design is bad IMO , It's not because it has a bad look or anything like that or it's design for that matter, it looks stunning !!But Just look at the recent Pathfinder games for what I mean as an example , we have a WORLD MAP where we travel overland and then you have specific spots of interest on the map your party travels to , like in the case of BG3 the crashsite, the grove , goblin camp etc this gives the player a sence of scope of the world , right now it's ALL cramped into one huge battlemap but the problems is it's small for all the things it contains and the results it creates is a very unrealistic world ..Here is a crashsite and 5 steps later there is a temple , 5 steps later there is a druid/tiefling grove and if you took left instead of right you will most likely end up somewhere your characthers will get slaughtered just a few mouseklicks away.. And yes as someone already pointed out , the things that take up space in this game isn't the maps , it's the voice overs and movie clips , from my standpoint this could even help the game run better on older hardware , since if you don't have this enourmous map with all the Larian fidelity instead split it up in smaller zones it would'nt be so intence , like the building that is on fire for example..
Look folks , most of you doesn't seem to really grasp why this design is bad IMO , It's not because it has a bad look or anything like that or it's design for that matter, it looks stunning !!But Just look at the recent Pathfinder games for what I mean as an example , we have a WORLD MAP where we travel overland and then you have specific spots of interest on the map your party travels to , like in the case of BG3 the crashsite, the grove , goblin camp etc this gives the player a sence of scope of the world , right now it's ALL cramped into one huge battlemap but the problems is it's small for all the things it contains and the results it creates is a very unrealistic world ..Here is a crashsite and 5 steps later there is a temple , 5 steps later there is a druid/tiefling grove and if you took left instead of right you will most likely end up somewhere your characthers will get slaughtered just a few mouseklicks away.. And yes as someone already pointed out , the things that take up space in this game isn't the maps , it's the voice overs and movie clips , from my standpoint this could even help the game run better on older hardware , since if you don't have this enourmous map with all the Larian fidelity instead split it up in smaller zones it would'nt be so intence , like the building that is on fire for example..
It is just a difference of opinion on map design! I thought the world map in WoTR was very boring with all the trash mob random encounters and the need to rest just for traveling on it.
Look folks , most of you doesn't seem to really grasp why this design is bad IMO , It's not because it has a bad look or anything like that or it's design for that matter, it looks stunning !!But Just look at the recent Pathfinder games for what I mean as an example , we have a WORLD MAP where we travel overland and then you have specific spots of interest on the map your party travels to , like in the case of BG3 the crashsite, the grove , goblin camp etc this gives the player a sence of scope of the world , right now it's ALL cramped into one huge battlemap but the problems is it's small for all the things it contains and the results it creates is a very unrealistic world ..Here is a crashsite and 5 steps later there is a temple , 5 steps later there is a druid/tiefling grove and if you took left instead of right you will most likely end up somewhere your characthers will get slaughtered just a few mouseklicks away.. And yes as someone already pointed out , the things that take up space in this game isn't the maps , it's the voice overs and movie clips , from my standpoint this could even help the game run better on older hardware , since if you don't have this enourmous map with all the Larian fidelity instead split it up in smaller zones it would'nt be so intence , like the building that is on fire for example..
It is just a difference of opinion on map design! I thought the world map in WoTR was very boring with all the trash mob random encounters and the need to rest just for traveling on it.
Well I didn't say they needlessly has to make the diffrent maps boring for you It could basically be the same map just split up in 10 to give some sence of scope to the world and realism for that matter !!
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