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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Aug 2023
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Strongly agree on opinion about endless possibilities stored in DnD and game itself, that allows to perform miracles of all sorts. There are lots of hell iron in the game, but still no love for Karlach despite player's efforts. That is unsatisfactory: lots of ways to lose her but not a single to win. Personally I don't find ending as good one (only if somewhere player slighly failed in the process, but not gravely) - taking into account the fact that she loves this world and we, as players, may be spared for long time from ceremorphosis, travel to another planes, but unable to fix some tech while surrounded by lots of miracles and powerful entities. Unbelievable. So, I strongly hope that game is unfinished at the moment, and great Act 3 will be presented with endings, quests, and repaired our and Karlach hearts. JUSTICE FOR KARLACH! LOVE FOR KARLACH! P.S. Her death ending is not bad as it is (thoughtful at least), but this makes taste her overall quest line unfinished, not solid, and stimulating players dig all corners in attempt to save her. This, IMO, proves that good ending is a must have.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2020
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In my games, Gale still has that True Resurrection scroll, which he'll no longer be needing. Couldn't he just... donate it?
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Aug 2023
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Hey, all! Here's my obligatory "just made an account to join in this conversation," since I've been almost exclusively a lurker on every site I've ever used in my two decades of internet use. I figured if I didn't at least add my voice here, I wouldn't have a right to complain if Karlach's ending never gets fixed/updated/whatever your verb of choice is.
I don't have anything to add to all the logical inconsistencies of Karlach's story. They've all been mentioned. Just that I, too, was really enjoying the game until I found out about Karlach's ending choices. The ending of a game makes or breaks it for me, and while I respect that some people like the sorts of ending options we got, I'm not one of them; I am therefore choosing to hope another option will eventually be introduced, because until such a time, I can't bring myself to continue playing.
As it happens, I do like tragedies--in the classical sense, where a character's tragic flaw is ultimately their undoing. If Gale's storyline led to his death, or Wyll's led to him becoming the thing he swore to destroy--I would find artistry in that. But in Karlach's case? All I have is a lack of fulfillment.
So, here's to hoping for an amendment to Karlach's story, and the opportunity to enjoy playing BG3 in the future!
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member
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member
Joined: Aug 2023
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The more I think about it, the more I'm conviced it's already done, quests are developed, story is already written and dialogues are recorded. And we'll have the rest of the storyline for companions that are related to Baldur's Gate like Astarion and Karlach. Bloody hope you're right. The best case scenario for us right now, I think. And hey, considering those people who had to stop playing upon learning that the endings are underwhelming, and also those like me who have a duckling syndrome about their first character and only truly replay RPGs once there's new content presented for those characters (especially if I was mad about it), plus the "I wait till all the content is fixed and added before buying" players... I mean, that's not a lot, but Larian would definitely be bringing back (or keeping) a chunk of people if they released the, uh, "Extended Cut" of the ending/Act 3  Win-win!
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Aug 2023
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The more I think about it, the more I'm conviced it's already done, quests are developed, story is already written and dialogues are recorded. And we'll have the rest of the storyline for companions that are related to Baldur's Gate like Astarion and Karlach. Bloody hope you're right. The best case scenario for us right now, I think. And hey, considering those people who had to stop playing upon learning that the endings are underwhelming, and also those like me who have a duckling syndrome about their first character and only truly replay RPGs once there's new content presented for those characters (especially if I was mad about it), plus the "I wait till all the content is fixed and added before buying" players... I mean, that's not a lot, but Larian would definitely be bringing back (or keeping) a chunk of people if they released the, uh, "Extended Cut" of the ending/Act 3 Win-win! Yeah I've seen a ton of people say they dropped the game upon realizing there is no curing Karlac's heart. It's a horrible outcome that will never satisfy anyone who invests in the character. Game is perfect if you don't give a damn about her but the second you do the story is just ruined imo.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Aug 2023
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I actually dug through all the ending datamines, its clear that the Avernus ending was intended to be the "good choice" for her, and all the Origins have a cut line (spoken by Withers) after the Return to Avernus choice that's positive about fighting through the hells, and looking for a cure. Interesting. Anything on Halsin? I am very disappointed with the romance ending between Tav and Halsin. I can't seem to access the file, do we need to be granted access in order to see it?
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jan 2023
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I actually dug through all the ending datamines, its clear that the Avernus ending was intended to be the "good choice" for her, and all the Origins have a cut line (spoken by Withers) after the Return to Avernus choice that's positive about fighting through the hells, and looking for a cure. Interesting. Anything on Halsin? I am very disappointed with the romance ending between Tav and Halsin. I can't seem to access the file, do we need to be granted access in order to see it? It's not just the epilogue, there's also cut content which, for example, implies there might have been a cure for Astarion. Interestingly, it points back to . I'm not sure if whatever's in the epilogue will reveal all. People do say a lot has been cut overall, though...
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Aug 2023
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I, too, am disappointed by the endings for Karlach. As someone who also has heart problems, I was happy to see that representation in a video game for that first time I've seen. Only to find out that you can't save her and she still dies despite all the work you put in as one of your companions. It just drives the point home that most people like me don't get their happy endings, even in a video game. Even when we can save the world and heal wounds with magic and even resurrect the dead like it's nothing.
Last edited by The Red Queen; 22/08/23 10:12 AM. Reason: Added spoiler tags
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Aug 2023
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Just made an account to add my voice to this. Karlach is such a fantastic character and her endings being so constrained is heartbreaking, especially when side by side with how much hope there is for all the other companions. I would love to have another ending available to her. She deserves it.
If another ending isn't in the cards for Karlach, I'd really like to see better pacing and removal of threads in Act 3 that suggest she can be saved. I spent ages crawling up and down the Steel Watch Foundry because there was a dialogue thread that suggested something could be found there. At the very least, that needs to go. Unfinished narrative threads in some video games are... well, never pleasant, but at least not so glaringly obvious as they are in a game like this one, where most others are concluded.
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Aug 2023
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I've read through these, but, if I'm not mistaken, these seem to be the same endings we have available now: she either dies, she goes to Avernus, or she turns into a mind flayer. The main additions I see is that Withers leads the party into an epilogue during which their fates and choices are discussed, but I'm not seeing anything different about the actual ending choices... Maybe I'm not finding the new stuff?
Justice for Karlach
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Aug 2023
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jul 2009
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I have no problem with tragic endings and Karlach not getting a happy end.
If that is what Larian intended they should stick with it.
My problem with Karlach is the cut quests and that when considering D&D lore her problem is rather easy to solve compared to Gale and others.
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Aug 2023
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Honestly, this is my problem as well, and I gather that most people agree, it's not about the tragedy, it's about there... well, not being any, really. It's just... sadistic as it is at the moment. The dead-end solutions just serve to add insult to injury, in a way, and as many have stated before, a Deus Ex Machina's literally just another Tuesday in D&D. We have gods, powerful magic, THE Scribe of The Dead is literally crashing at my camp, respecs my character 10 times an hour, and refuses to elaborate , there is no reason whatsoever, neither in the lore nor in the game, as to why Karlach deserves such a fate. Had she brought it upon herself through hubris, self-sacrifice, player (in)action, all fine and dandy! Hit me in the feels, make me cry like never before and I'll hate you (or myself!) for it, but I'll love the story! I'm even OK with the thought of my character as her partner joining her in Avernus, there's a strong tinge of bittersweet and hopeless romanticism there, it's artistically pleasing. But the way it's currently presented is like... what? And why does Wyll supersede her actual partner, regardless of choice? At best he should offer to be a third wheel in this case. I even love the idea of the entire party deciding to Hell-dive, would end the whole thing with the same aroma of adventure with which it started.
Last edited by Arkaelus; 19/08/23 02:42 PM.
Justice for Karlach
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jan 2023
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I've read through these, but, if I'm not mistaken, these seem to be the same endings we have available now: she either dies, she goes to Avernus, or she turns into a mind flayer. The main additions I see is that Withers leads the party into an epilogue during which their fates and choices are discussed, but I'm not seeing anything different about the actual ending choices... Maybe I'm not finding the new stuff? The issue is that people tend to automatically assume Zariel will have us for breakfast if going with Karlach, while that was not Larian's intention. In one of Astartion's endings, she's apparently deeply afraid of him? What?? Okay. I didn't say it made sense
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Aug 2023
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Hello, new user here who made this account so I could share my piece. Let me start by saying that I really love this game. It's great mechanically, it's great graphically and it's extremely great narratively. Worthy of all the praise it gets. But (there's always one, no?), after learning what ultimately becomes of Karlach, I don't think I'll be able to finish this game. Look, I get it that many of the great narratives are based on, or at least have some, tragedy, but this is a bit too much for me. It almost feels like they're "ticking a box" where one character has to have a bitter or bad end, no matter what the player does. It feels frustrating. I acknowledge it's my own shortcoming for getting invested in these characters.
I myself have some big heart issues irl. I'm on "borrowed time", so to speak, so having a video game character with relatable issue really hit home. When Karlach first told the PC about her problem and when some of the camp members even commented about "we'll get it fixed, surely", it felt good. All the infernal iron, Dammon and whatever magic is there in Faerun, it felt good. Perhaps I could get a bit of that hope and channel it into real life?
But apparently it's not the case. It just feels funny, especially when one of the party members gets stabililized by a bearded deus ex machina, there's a literal undead time god who can change your stats at will (it's a game mechanic, I get it), there's all sorts of spells for whatever one can think of, and there's even an actual profession related to this problem (Infernal Mechanic). And nothing can be done?
Anyway, while I criticize, I'll respect their decisions. It's their story, their characters, their artistic vision (or integrity, as a certain company has said in the past), their choice. But it's also my choice to enjoy the ride as long as I can, but step out before it reaches its conclusion. I cannot finish this game if this is the end. While it may sound stupid to some, it's my choice. In the end, life is nothing but a series of choices.
Last edited by The Red Queen; 22/08/23 10:14 AM. Reason: Added spoiler tags
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Aug 2023
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Thank you! I mean, I didn't even want to get started with Zariel and how even a half-decent lvl 12 party would actually have a chance... especially a party which includes a bona fide master Daemon hunter, a powerful Cleric of Light, one of the most powerful Wizards on the Sword Coast, and whatever insanely powerful class custom PCs have - I know my Bardladin can Smite Daemons like they're confetti... We took down the Avatar of Myrkul, and the godling was there solely to speed things up, nothing more... As far as her being scared of Astarion... that makes so little sense with how much information is included at the moment in the game, I'm both dumbstruck and curious to see how that'll tie into everything else.
Last edited by Arkaelus; 19/08/23 04:51 PM.
Justice for Karlach
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member
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OP
member
Joined: Aug 2023
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Once again I'm proud and appreciative of the continued support here. Given the recent news of cut content and datamines, it looks like the Avernus ending is a lot more positive than it was displayed as (abruptly) in the game. Moreover, it seems a Definitive Edition is quite likely in the future, with the areas and such that were taken off the table toward the end of production, we'll have to wait and see. This community has been amazing with their maintained positivity and outlook, please remain polite and respectful toward Larian going into the future! #JusticeForKarlach
Last edited by The Red Queen; 22/08/23 10:14 AM. Reason: Added spoiler tags
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member
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OP
member
Joined: Aug 2023
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