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stranger
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OP
stranger
Joined: Aug 2023
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Hi all!
So after finishing act 2 I was left with strong impression that Nightsong, Ketheric Thorm, and basically all that shadow curse business are somehow tied to events of bg1 and/or bg2. Naturally I didn't play previous games and I kinda don't want to sink some 300 hours into them, but bg1/2 story recaps on youtube don't seem to mention any of these characters (well except Jaheira and Minsc). Neither they are mentioned on wiki.
Am I missing something here? Is act 2 tied to some bg1/2 dlc? An adaptation of some tabletop module? Or is it all just original Larian lore?
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Jul 2023
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I *think* it's just original Larian lore? But I admit to being a little confused by Dame Aylin. Is she literally Selune's daughter? Is she an aasimar because she's Selune's daughter, or is that just incidental? If she is an aasimar because Selune is her mom, then why are Bhaalspawn not aasimar/tieflings of some kind?
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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
Joined: Oct 2021
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All original Larian lore based on my knowledge. With very weak backing at that.
Remember the human (This is a forum for a video game):
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2020
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No, those things aren't tied to the original games in any way. Aylin also confuses me. She should be a half-celestial at the very least if she's actually Selune's daughter; most logically she would be a demigod. She's immortal, which is absolutely not normal for aasimars (I don't even think it's normal for half-celestials). Her power levels are not otherwise very extreme, though. Weird.
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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
Joined: Oct 2021
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A lot of the plot from the point of no return in Act 2 to the very end of act 2 seems like heavily contrived bullshit that was hastily adapted from a previous plot to fit the current iteration of the game. Now, that may not be true in actuality, but that’s what it feels like.
Remember the human (This is a forum for a video game):
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Jul 2023
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many of the plots of this game are pointless. supposedly she is deadly but has immortal power, etc etc.
It seems that Lariana surpassed the premise of creating a next-generation RPG story and setting the boundaries of the narrative higher than it could. In terms of story and character plots, this game hides under the power of CDPred or even Bioware
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stranger
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OP
stranger
Joined: Aug 2023
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Thanks! That clarifies something at least. Maybe just divine chosen? There seems to be quite a few in the game. On that note... its strange that Thorm actually needs to sap someone else for immortality, being the chosen of god of death
Last edited by Redrisco; 18/08/23 08:58 PM.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2020
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Being Chosen doesn't automatically grant immortality. Some Chosen get longer lifespans - Mystra seems to like handing those out - but not all.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Mar 2020
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No, those things aren't tied to the original games in any way. Aylin also confuses me. She should be a half-celestial at the very least if she's actually Selune's daughter; most logically she would be a demigod. She's immortal, which is absolutely not normal for aasimars (I don't even think it's normal for half-celestials). Her power levels are not otherwise very extreme, though. Weird. My guess is this. And it's just a guess. I'm detecting a Daisy / Guardian level rewrite. I think Aylin was supposed to be Shadowheart's sister and that two were paired opposites in the same way that Shar and Selune were mirrors of each other but that Larian decided that "demigod" was too over the top for Shadowheart's story (and BG3 is Shadowheart's story, Tav is just tagging along)
Why else would Shar create an entire temple and assign her most powerful cleric to overseeing it if Shadowheart wasn't very, very special? All this for some rando selunite child? I think Shar wanted to show she could turn Selune's children against her. So if Shadowheart follows Shar she kills her sister, father and adoptive mother - she knows true loss.
Shadowheart a dark cleric seeking the light / Alyin is the warrior struggling with a darkness rising within - which we see in her creepy wounds and the excessive violence she uses in battle. It also explains why Aylin knows the Shadowheart's story.
I suspect that the two were supposed to help each other DA helps SH see the light and SH helps DA purge the darkness.
All of this follows the grand BG tradition of last second rewrites - Imoen's BG2 story doesn't make any sense unless you read the discarded version.
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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
Joined: Oct 2021
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No, those things aren't tied to the original games in any way. Aylin also confuses me. She should be a half-celestial at the very least if she's actually Selune's daughter; most logically she would be a demigod. She's immortal, which is absolutely not normal for aasimars (I don't even think it's normal for half-celestials). Her power levels are not otherwise very extreme, though. Weird. My guess is this. And it's just a guess. I'm detecting a Daisy / Guardian level rewrite. I think Aylin was supposed to be Shadowheart's sister and that two were paired opposites in the same way that Shar and Selune were mirrors of each other but that Larian decided that "demigod" was too over the top for Shadowheart's story (and BG3 is Shadowheart's story, Tav is just tagging along)
Why else would Shar create an entire temple and assign her most powerful cleric to overseeing it if Shadowheart wasn't very, very special? All this for some rando selunite child? I think Shar wanted to show she could turn Selune's children against her. So if Shadowheart follows Shar she kills her sister, father and adoptive mother - she knows true loss.
Shadowheart a dark cleric seeking the light / Alyin is the warrior struggling with a darkness rising within - which we see in her creepy wounds and the excessive violence she uses in battle. It also explains why Aylin knows the Shadowheart's story.
I suspect that the two were supposed to help each other DA helps SH see the light and SH helps DA purge the darkness.
All of this follows the grand BG tradition of last second rewrites - Imoen's BG2 story doesn't make any sense unless you read the discarded version. That's a viable possibility. Then again, anything other than what we got would make more sense and be more earned narratively. How someone could look at a storyboard of the current Act 2 and think, "Yes, these plot points connect." is beyond me.
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stranger
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OP
stranger
Joined: Aug 2023
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Well it does connect for me. Kind of. It just seems that it shoud also connect to some out-of-game content. Like some unreleased comic or web-series. Basicaly Mass Effect James Vega situation
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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
Joined: Oct 2021
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Well it does connect for me. Kind of. It just seems that it shoud also connect to some out-of-game content. Like some unreleased comic or web-series. Basicaly Mass Effect James Vega situation That content does not exist. The only material from previous Forgotten Realms lore is that Balthazar stole his name from the guy whose ribs he took, that guy happened to be a Bhaalspawn monk, who believed murder existed as deep as his bones. But the Balthazar we meet is not that monk, but a necromancer type guy who just took the monk’s ribs and name for his new life. Aylin is a new character, as is Ketheric, as is Isobel, as is almost everyone in Act 2 except Jaheira and the Gods.
Remember the human (This is a forum for a video game):
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member
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member
Joined: Jan 2021
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The Nightsong was a completely different character in the datamined EA files. MASSIVE rewrites clearly took place and its hard to say if for better or worse since we'll never get to see the full picture. As someone who really digs the Guardian and couldn't give two poops about the Dream Lover, I want to give larian the benefit of the doubt but like many others I really don't care/don't like the story they made for Aylin, Ketheric and the different areas of the shadow cursed lands. I like the designs and themes of the various "Thorms" npcs (especially the brewer) but it all feels very disjointed.
Last edited by Malrith; 18/08/23 10:41 PM.
- Firm believer in Mindflayer supremacy -
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2020
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Having a temple of Shar, containing the chosen and child of Selune, and having the general of Shar betray his Goddess for immortality by abusing her with arcane magic, is very faerun. As for SH why would they need to be siblings for a half-angel Aasimar who has been tortured for a century to either A. know her backstory (Of course she would know about a selunite kidnapped and converted, either by visions of selunites or shar taunting her) or B. have anger issues and scars from a century of torture having them be related doesn't solve or answer any problems in her character, it'd just create more, mainly the time thing as then the whole story of Thorm would need a new time frame? The bigger issue with her i s how after you deal with the wizard in Act 3 she just stands in that room for the rest of the game and sort of runs out of content and then is a bit rubbish in the final battle (she got one shooted by one of the emperor's guardian reflections in my game) As for the Bhaalspawn different, Bhaal was not a God when he Bhaalspawned, that was a major point of the story in BG1&2 he wasn't Godding around the around getting people zeus pregnant with idk, rains of blood or something. Time of Troubles a bunch of Gods were turned into basically normal (but high level) dudes who ran around doing mortal stuff and killing each other. Also it's very unclear if the Bhaalspawn are immortal or not, they appear to not age from the novels/ is Sarevok still in his 30s because of the undead thing or bhaalspawn thing? but again, being Bhaalspawn is way different from being the child of a God as Bhaal technically wasn't a 'god' at the time. I do like how she has post-Act 2 content she had for a character who you have so many motives to kill and have to pass a hard roll to save, it's a nice your choices matter. But as someone who saved her after going with evil act 1 choice the whole her lover being thorms daughter who was still alive thing came out of nowhere, I guess in the good act 2 you get build up for that but with evil Act 2, even during the battle when I now knew Thorm hated her for corrupting his daughter I never expected them to reunite at the after party
Last edited by Starshine; 18/08/23 10:43 PM.
Minthara is the best character and she NEEDS to be recruitable if you side with the grove! Also- I support the important thread in the suggestions: Let everyone in the Party Speak
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2020
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(and BG3 is Shadowheart's story, Tav is just tagging along) Huh. Interesting way of looking at it. So far I've found Shadowheart's story to be the least compelling of the six (or seven? I don't really count DUrge), and if I was at all a fan of a certain character from the original games, I might be quite miffed about their inclusion.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Mar 2020
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@Starshine Yes it is very Faerun!  I but I'm talking about: The temple in Baldur's Gate. Viconia reveals that the entire temple in BG was devoted to corrupting Shadowheart. Don't get me wrong, I lurved the the Kethric story. The Shar-Selune content was *chef's kiss* perfect. Kethric was great. In fact BG3 probably the best representation of Shar I've seen  Love it. But I to assign someone of Viconia's level to raising just one child who is neither a chosen nor a child of Selune? That's weird. Remember that at the end of ToB Viconia was the strongest servant of Shar in the realms. In the existing story SH is just some rando selunite kid - which doesn't make much sense to me. I suspect that SH was originally chosen or demigod. I think it would have better if she remained as such. @Tarlonniel. I guess I think chapter 2 is her chapter, it's a big chapter and it's all about Shar and the nightsong. Lae'zel gets some good content but the monastery quest is just so much smaller than the shadowlands. But I could be biased because I just love FR lore and thought the representation of Shar was picture perfect. But I have missed out of both Gale and Astarian - Gale I skipped and kicked out Astarian because I got tired of him complaining about all my choices. I'm glad I got to see the EA Astarian that was quick to trust and easy to romance otherwise I would have missed his story entirely.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2020
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But I could be biased because I just love FR lore and thought the representation of Shar was picture perfect. I like Act II, I enjoyed all the Shar/Selune stuff (though I'm a Lathanderite myself). The problem is that I was expecting more dialogue with Shadowheart about it all, more philosophical discussion, more indications of her internal struggle between light and dark. Instead she was pretty much just "Rah rah Shar! Boo Moonwitch!" 100% of the time until a rather abrupt heel-face turn. Meanwhile we're running into all this evidence of Shar's evil and atrocities and my character is just sort of side-eyeing Shadowheart but saying nothing. 
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Dec 2020
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Well, according to Steam forums, the only thing that's important about her is ![[Linked Image from media.tenor.com]](https://media.tenor.com/mqokRt4-XlkAAAAC/supergirl-shes-gay.gif)
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2020
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@Starshine Yes it is very Faerun!  I but I'm talking about: The temple in Baldur's Gate. Viconia reveals that the entire temple in BG was devoted to corrupting Shadowheart. Don't get me wrong, I lurved the the Kethric story. The Shar-Selune content was *chef's kiss* perfect. Kethric was great. In fact BG3 probably the best representation of Shar I've seen  Love it. But I to assign someone of Viconia's level to raising just one child who is neither a chosen nor a child of Selune? That's weird. Remember that at the end of ToB Viconia was the strongest servant of Shar in the realms. In the existing story SH is just some rando selunite kid - which doesn't make much sense to me. I suspect that SH was originally chosen or demigod. I think it would have better if she remained as such. @Tarlonniel. I guess I think chapter 2 is her chapter, it's a big chapter and it's all about Shar and the nightsong. Lae'zel gets some good content but the monastery quest is just so much smaller than the shadowlands. But I could be biased because I just love FR lore and thought the representation of Shar was picture perfect. But I have missed out of both Gale and Astarian - Gale I skipped and kicked out Astarian because I got tired of him complaining about all my choices. I'm glad I got to see the EA Astarian that was quick to trust and easy to romance otherwise I would have missed his story entirely. really? I went the evil route and gave SH to Viconia for allies and, she never mentioned it, from the content I saw the purpose of it was to build a powerbase in the coast for Shar, give security for Viconia and save the world through defeating absolute, SH was entirely presented as a wayward personal side project not the whole purpose? That really undermines all the fantastic writing they showed in building the HoG as an evil organisation that helps people but for evil reasons, a masterfully and really well written story and setting beat. To make it all about SH? that just undermines everything they worked to set up and write? I loved what I saw of what they did with Viconia, gutted to hear they undermine all that if you make different choices
Minthara is the best character and she NEEDS to be recruitable if you side with the grove! Also- I support the important thread in the suggestions: Let everyone in the Party Speak
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2022
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I quite liked SH's arc, and I found Dame Aylin to be an interesting personality, although there were some confusing parts of her story.
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