Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Build Discussion Wizard Class Implementation: Discussion & Feedback

Disclaimer - Wizards were always my favourite DnD class until now.

In most previous versions and games of DnD, metamagics were normal feats that any class could take.

Wizards also used to get a free caster feat at level 1 and every 5th level after.

Sorcerers were typically feat and spell starved, but cast a lot more spells and simply had more spell slots per day.

Now in BG3 only sorcerers get quicken and heighten. Across every DnD game with metamagics, no one ever dares to even try to play a Wizard without at least Quicken and Heighten, as those two being mandatory to actually make your spells effective.

Enter BG3, the first DnD game where Wizards don't even have quicken and heighten. Only one spell per round, and with way lower DCs than a Sorc can do, which is just lul because typically Sorcs are blasters and Wizards were historically superior as high DC casters.

Easy fix, bring back getting a metamagic every 5th level for Wizards (so quicken and heighten can be taken at level 5 and 10, or any other inferior metamagic) and let them be powered from those arcane charges of theirs, for balance sake thats only 2 metamagic feats and have their arcane charges limited to +1 every 2 levels which I think they already are, so they only get to quicken two spells at level 12 ... well I mean I still wouldn't play a wizard, cos even thats still lame.

And none of that is even factoring in that other than for class attack DC, Int is the most useless stat in the game, but don't even get me started on that one.

Your problem is that you compare DnD 3E with 5E.
In DnD 5E only sorcerers get meta magic, wizards get school specialisation instead.

One big Problem are the huge rule changes Larian made in BG3
- DnD rules: Only 1 spell lv1 or higher per round, haste can only be used for one additional attack --- BG3: cast 3 fireballs per round with haste and quicken
- DnD: lots of useful buff, debuff and utility spells --- BG3: Just blast everything in the first round, concentration is gone quickly and there is a high chance you die before you can act when the enemy acts first.

solution: BG3 should follow the DnD rules more closely
- not giving players or NPC extra actions or bonus actions
- follow the rules about what counts as action, bonus action or reaction (looking at BA shove and BA feather fall for example)
- spells do what they are supposed to do (haste not giving an action that can be used for anything for example)

Some changes cannot be avoided because its a computer game and some other changes can be good too.
But messing around with action economy will lead to desaster. Its even written in one of the rule books.
"Players can use their own rules as they seem fit, but changes to actions/bonus action/reactions can totally ruin your game" (Not the exact words, but they wrote something similar.)

There are a couple scrolls you learn later if your a wizard. I won't tell you where due to spoilers, but dethrone and a upgraded level 6 magic missile that does nearly 100 dmg. With you can cast 4 level 6 spells a battle doing up to 400 damage every long rest. It's busted

You havent played fifth edition have you?

My divination wizard Gale disagrees with you. No one saves the day better than this boy. In BG3 wizard specific features are also capped at level 10, which implies the preference for multi-classing. I went with Wild Magic (2) dip, but Warlock or Fighter both seem great options for a 2 level dip.

Its in my recent thread / video I made where I respecced my sorc spells to include hold person and monster.

Cast a level 5 heightened hold person on the githyanki ambush, 65% > 88% on the main boss, 90% > 99% on the normal mobs.

Wizard and divine casters will never be able to do that.

Ok so you mention specializations yes. Wizard specializations in BG3 don't even improve spell DC like they did in all previous games, don't know if thats a 5e rules thing or not.

So DC casting or damage spell casting, sorcs do everything better.

Oh but look, wizards are the most versatile, they can learn all the spells ...

Memorize a scroll, 100+ gold based on scroll level. Talk to Withers with my sorc, 100 gold any time I want to change all my spells.

Sorcerers are the most versatile and if you actually want your spells to work.

So my current loadout for spells is:

Level 1 - Magic Missile, Shield, Ray of Sickness from green dragon (I removed chromatic orb because I never used it over twinned ray of sickness for green dragon sorc)
Level 2 - Scorching Ray, Hold Person
Level 3 - Fireball, Counterspell, Blink (removed lightning bolt because I never needed to use it over fireball)
Level 4 - Ice Storm, Wall of Fire
Level 5 - Cloudkill, Hold Monster.

Metamagics - Twinned, Quicken, Heighten, and whichever last one thats never used, currently distant spell because eh it might come in handy sometime.

And still MM and Scorching Ray might be swappable to other stuff.

All the damage cantrips - EB from Spell Sniper, Fire Bolt, Shocking Grasp, Ray of Frost, Acid Splash, Poison Spray, Bone Chill

So in the rare case enemies are immune / resistant to both poison and fire, I can just use whichever cantrip. Level 12 feat I'm planning on warcaster or whatever its called for advantage on concentration and shocking grasp opportunity attacks.

Currently also using Jaheira as a spore druid, so I have 2x cloudkill and also 2x wall of fire / ice storm as needed. Stuff just melts. When not needed Jaheira can also tank and melee or shapeshift, but I like her more for the extra damage spells.

I could also drop spell sniper and take 2 levels of warlock for stronger EB, but I want to wait and see if that means losing level 6 spells and if I really need any of those as opposed to just using the level 6 slot for cloudkill as well.

On the one hand most of the problems you mentioned are because DnD 5e is garbage, utter trash. On the other hand concentration spells are garbage in BG3. So wizards perform badly. I do prefer the PF system although it has also a lot of stupid things in it.

The way i see how Larian implemented BG3 rules.
Not knowing properly all intricacies of 5e, but decided to make game based on it.
Met "carpet bombing" of critics about how 5e rules actually works, but internally decided to go with: "Well, we personally get used to play D&D in different ways, with 2+ fireball per round etc. So, we stick to it".
And later when encountered problems with some encounters being too easy, instead of adjusting core mechanics to real D&D mechanics - artificially attempted to buff some bosses.

Which actually brakes the whole concept of D&D, system designed to be understandable for newcomers. In BG3 - you really have to minmax and follow meta, to be good in game. Or shame yourself by switching to "story" difficulty.

Wizards do need something to compete with how much of a buff Sorcerers got with Quicken and Heighten being drastically improved, and in general flexibility being at less of a premium because there's only so many ways you can use Disguise Self.

+ 1000

It's a 100% this. All your complaints are aimed at 5E not at BG3, which, as far as Metamagic and Spells go, follows the 5E. As another poster already pointed out, a bigger issue is the weakness of concentration spells and the ease with which enemies break it.

I can tell you first-hand that a high level wizard in BG3 can be staggeringly destructive. If you combine the fact that Wizards are at a disadvantage with how concentration spells were implemented and some Larianisms in the interpretation of Figher/Barb abilities (weird jumps, shoves, very powerful melee weapons and armors) it's easy to understand why melee combatants feel alot more powerful.

Strong Disagree. Ritual casting aside, Rogue 2/Diviner 10 is very strong in end-game. Hell, Diviners all the way through can make a huge, life-saving difference (especially on Tactician mode).

I prefer god ol 2nd edition BG2 wizards. God tire class. As it should be.

And man, having access to lev 6,7 , 8,9 spells. So much fun. Tons of utility.
Lets see the some of the stand outs :


(Level 6) Death Spell: This is a very powerful spell that will instantly kill all enemies with lower than an 8 Hit Dice. One notable enemy type that this will instantly take out is trolls, basically all types of them will be one shot by this spell. This will save you the trouble of having to knock them down then deal fire or acid damage to them to take them out.

(Level 6) Improved Haste: Probably one of the best spells in the entire game. This spell will double the amount of attacks you can perform each round (up to a max of 10) and it doesn't Fatigue you when it wears off. Using this spell on a Fighter/Mage that dual wields is going to pump out some serious DPS on enemies.

(Level 6) Mislead: Essentially what this spell does is it casts Improved Invisibility on the Wizard and then creates a duplicate to act as a distraction where the Wizard used to be. This spell is exceptionally powerful to get a surpise jump on an enemy or group of enemies.

(Level 6) Protection from Magical Energy: This spell is great and a must use before going into a fight against caster enemies on higher difficulties. It essentially makes you immune to lots of magical based attacks. One added bonus of this spell is it lasts for 1 round per level which is 6 seconds of real time per level.

(Level 6) Protection from Magical Weapons: Much like with the previous spell, this one is amazing and it makes you immune to all attacks from magical weapons -- which is basically all melee attacks at this point in the game.

(Level 6) True Sight: This spell will dispel any illusion effect around the caster. Invisibility, Improved Invisibility, Mirror Image and more all will be dispelled. What's more is True Sight will continue to dispel these spells every round until it expires.

(Level 6) Contingency: This spell is kind of like Minor Sequencer except that it works slightly differently. For this spell you're able to select 1 spell as a "Contingency" which is a spell that will automatically be cast when a certain condition is met. Some of the possible conditions are getting hit, HP dropping to 50%, 25% or 10%, spotting an enemy, being helpless or becoming poisoned.



(Level 7) Mordekainen's Sword: One of the better summons that you can create in the game. This sword is immune to almost all damage and it'll last 6 seconds IRL time per level of your Wizard. So, very likely almost 2 minutes or more.

(Level 7) Project Image: Arguably the most useful spell in the entire game in terms of the amount of bang for your buck. This spell will create a mirror image of the wizard who can't use physical attack but can use all spells HLAs and items that the Wizard has on them... Best of all is when you use a spell or an HLA it doesn't consume anything on your actual Wizard.

(Level 7) Ruby Ray of Reversal: This is another spell that is used to strip Mage's defenses or other high level boss enemies. On Core Rules and higher you'll definitely need to use spells like this but otherwise they typically are not needed.

(Level 7) Spell Sequencer: Much like the level 4 Minor Sequencer spell this one allows you to pick 3 different spells of Level 4 or below. Really there are too many combinations to name but you can choose between different defensive combos and combos with powerful spells like Flame Arrow which will almost one shot many enemies.

(Level 7) Limited Wish: This spell does a wide variety of different things, some of them are 1 wish per save game and some of them are repeatable wishes. I recommend you check the wiki for a complete list. Ultimately, this spell is worth it for playing around with outside of combat but not too useful in combat.

(Level 7) Spell Turning: When you have this spell active it will reflect any spells cast on the Wizard back at the original caster. This spell has a total of 12 "spell level" charges meaning it will reflect a total of 12 spell levels back to the caster. It could do 12 Magic Missiles or 5 Magic Missiles and 2 Breach (breaking on the last Breach). Essentially the amount of spells it reflects depends on the level of the spell.

(Level 7) Finger of Death: You have a chance of one shotting your target with this spell, otherwise they take 2d8+1 damage. It's basically a gamble and if you're someone who saves and reloads a lot you can always change the outcome of these gambles to what you want.




(Level 8) Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting: Arguably the best damage-based spell you can cast for this spell level; it comes with the added bonus of being party friendly too. This spell will deal 1d8 damage per level, enemies are allowed a Saving Throw roll which will result in them only taking half damage but even in that situation it's still insane damage. Pair this spell with Chain Contingency so you do Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting x3 and you'll decimate the entire field of enemies.

(Level 8) Incendiary Cloud: This is going to be your other damage spell for level 8. Incendiary Cloud does even more damage than Horrid Wilting since it will continuously proc the damage it deals instead of only doing it once.

(Level 8) Power Word, Blind: It's essentially an AoE blind which works better than the original Blind since there are no Saving Throw rolls for it. For those of you who don't already know, in BG2 when an enemy can't see you they do not attack you which means this spell will reliably take enemies out of the fight.

(Level 8) Simulacrum: One of the best spells in the game. When you use this spell it will create a duplicate of the caster with all of the spells, abilities and items the original caster has. Essentially you're able to duplicate one of the most powerful people on your team and get a 7th party member out of them. This spell works best on mage hybrids like Fighter/Mage.

(Level 8) Spell Trigger: This spell works similarly to the Minor Sequencer and Spell Sequencer spells that came before it. The main difference is you're able to put higher level spells into this Spell Trigger which gives you even more possible combinations.

(Level 8) Maze: Another CC that is available to you at level 8. This one will incapacitate a target for an amount of time that depends on the target's Intelligence score. What that means is this CC will be more effective on dumber targets like Fighters or other melee that can't cast spells.





(Level 9) Chain Contingency: This spell is a lot like Contingency which you get at Level 6; the main difference being you can choose higher level spells with this version. Essentially how this spell works is you can choose 3 different spells that will be cast when a certain condition is met. There are so many different choices I won't name them all here but some of them can be found in my BG2 Beginner's Guide Combat Strategies page.

(Level 9) Imprisonment: Another extremely powerful spell that will instantly remove an enemy from the fight. This spell can be used against some of the hardest enemies in the game like Beholders. One thing worth noting about this spell is you will get the EXP when it is successful but you will not get any items. So be careful who you use this on.

(Level 9) Spellstrike: You can use this spell to dispel almost all magical protections on an enemy. If you're playing on Core Rules you probably will not have to use this spell very often but as you move up higher and higher in difficulty you'll need to use this a lot more to strip enemy mages of their defenses.

(Level 9) Time Stop: Many people consider this one of the best spells if not the best spell in the entire game. As the name of the spell suggests it literally stops time and lets you perform pretty much any actions you want while time is stopped. You'll see many Liches and other high level mage enemies use this spell against you often, now you can turn the tides!

(Level 9) Wish: Wish does a large variety of things, both positive and negative. Your Wisdom score plays a large part in what wishes you get when you cast this spell. I recommend you check out the wiki page for a much more indepth explanation of what this spell does.

(Level 9) Spell Trap: Spell Trap absorbs spells that are cast on you and refunds you with additional daily spell casts.

(Level 9) Freedom: Really the only time you should ever memorize or use this spell is when someone in your group gets trapped by an Imprisonment spell.

Well I'm playing it now with this game, and 5e is complete trash compared to all previous rulesets.

I dont get why each new ruleset gets worse and worse.

Still not even half as strong as a sorcerer.

Want to save your party? Use a heightened hold person / hold monster, job done.

You are thinking of Art of War which is a level 5 evocation spell. Not level 6.

Tadpole frecast let's you cast a spell without costing you an action. The Markoheshkir staff lets you cast a spell without using a spell slot but it still takes an action, big difference. According the wiki, there is no staff that straight up gives freecast.

The Staff is definitely strong but I would not call it OP compared to the legendaries melee characters get in chapter 3. In fact Melee characters tend to get better weapons throughout the game. The only other good staff in the game, spellsparkler, you get much earlier. You essentially can keep your gear as a wizard the same through 90% of the game.

The same gear on a sorcerer is just vastly better. They can use the twincast to double the damage a wizard would have done. they can use quicken to cast an additional spell for free, they can use heighten to make a spell win a roll against a difficult to hit boss, ect. The only reason to go Wizard was that you can change your spells outside of combat at will but that's rendered moot by the fact that you can respec at any time in this game. A sorcerer in BG3 can essentially change their spells at will so you might as well go that class and get it's other benefits as well. Yes sorcerers cannot learn the 2-3 hidden spells in act 3 but TBH those are nowhere near enough to make up the difference between the two.

On top of that wizards are not great feeling to play throughout most of the game. They are outshined in the game until the end of charpter 2 and mostly serve as utility pieces and CC. Single target damage cannot touch a well geared fighter that gets a minimum of 4-5 50 dmg+ swings per turn except in the instances where enemies are grouped or line up (which is CC as mentioned above) Compared to BG2, wizards in BG3 pale in comparison. So much more fun to play wizards in BG2 or any mage class in Divinity Original Sin 2.

The only redeeming quality might be that wizards typically tend to have an advantage when discovering the secrets of whatever that necro book was called. That is completely OP and should be nerfed.

Played BG2 always solo only with my sorcerer. Timestop was also really usefull. And skull trap as well.

And yes what Turnip said was the best thing about BG2, the spell combat of that game has never been beat by any other game.

Wizards are more than fine in 5e, it's the Bg3 adaption of the ruleset is questionable. Concentration has already been mentioned and the controll spells being nerfed. Additionally BG3 is littered with OP melee weapons and gear which drastically changes the power balance between the classes. Add in no attunement and melee makes casters look like trash.

That being said, casters still add some tactical tools which can massively impact the battle. We are missing a critical gear type for casters though: spell foci. An Arcane Grimoire +2 increasing spell DC would be comparable to a +2 greatsword. We have a lot of weapons and gear for melee, very little that helps spell DC's. Casters seems to have been mostly forgotten in itemization that's useful and not just weird gimmicks.

No that is not true. Wizards are trash in DnD 5e but in BG3 it got even worse. The amount of spellslots is ridiculous and this is because of DnD 5e. Casters are much more fun in PF where all casters have access to metamagic FEATS not only sorcerer. WotC simplified the rules for 5e because the people are braindead and too stupid to choose proper feats for their class so there are not many feats left. If they do not want to give wizards metamagic they should give them some other good stuff instead. More spell slots per day for example