Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Build Discussion Wizard Class Implementation: Discussion & Feedback

Games need a focus, otherwise developers are spread too thin, that is just the way it is. It's not as if I defending this exploit.

So you are stopping your players from using Haste and/or Quicken Spell to cast 2 levelled spells in a turn too? Because I consider this to be a larger balance upset compared to PnP.

Yes. It's seen as not 5e compatible. I cast haste on the Tank/Warrior personally, then cast Evocation spells starting on my next turn while keeping myself protected from the enemy. Also we don't do barrelmancy.

I don't see how you can see that as a bigger exploit than the one I mentioned but you are entitled to your opinion. A Sorcerer with every spell in the game that they can apply metamagic to is 100% broken. They can then get haste from a wizard scroll and twin it with metamagic, all with 1 level in Wizard.

Sure, but there aren't that many useful spells in BG 3. A level 12 Sorcerer could just get it from the Sorcerer spell list and have more metamagic points. Not saying the flexibility isn't useful - it is for sure, but the overlap between Wizard and Sorcerers spell is so huge. You probably want to also get something like Sculpt Spells out of it, for it to be really useful.

Wizard 1/Cleric 11 is more of an issue.

Oh don't even tell me that a Wiz 1/ Cleric 11 can learn Wizard spells up to the cleric level of spell slots they have...*facepalm* - I agree, that is actually MUCH worse.*

Yeah, that's "working as intended" - sheesh.

It's honestly beyond indefensible at this point and anyone doing so is arguing in severely bad faith/trolling.

*Although just want to point out there ARE wizard spells in game that are NOT on the sorcerer spell list - which is correct according to 5e. Like Create Undead, Flesh to Stone, Otiluke Freezing Orb, Otto's Irresistible Dance, Wall of Ice, Planar Binding, Conjure Elemental and many more. So this exploit gets you access to those.

Agree. Learning spells whild level up is indeed completly stupid as well as paying for learning new spells. If you are in the middle of nowhere and you wanna learn a spell you have to spend money. Who will get the money? This is just a further DnD BS.

Playing Solasta at the moment which also uses DnD 5e but proper (although the game has other problems). And let me tell you it is much better implemented. Quicken spell is only possible for a cantrip and Spell or two cantrips for example. So sorceres are not that OP. The encounters in Solasta are fun too althoug we do not have octopus powers and some OP classes.

From a very noobiish perspective without diving into 5E, nor trying to mix max the heck out of it, I tend to not have that much caster in my party.
I really fail to see the alternative to melee warrior, I think the main issue (at least from a very naive perspective) is the equipement.
Basically you tend to find weapons with +1/+2/etc to rolls where at that point in the game I got two helmets that actually buff the DC for a spellcaster.
So basically, my combats in short are : my warrior having two strikes at 80%+ chance to hit, and my caster having one strike at 50/60%. So yeah, I have versatility with the caster, but nothing that justify that much difference imo (and it's not even with accounting for the limited spellcasting due to the slots system, where I could bash for hours on end with a melee warrior)

Thats my original point - in this game at least a 12 level sorc is still far better than a 12 level Wizard.

And if you do want to play a wizard, a 1-2 wiz / 10-11 sorc is superior in all regards.

So this crazy build I just found and tried on the Wizard hireling, you stay INT based but only take 2 levels Wizard for sculpt spells, then either 8-10 level sorc with storm sorcery and optionally 2 levels cleric tempest domain for max damage to a lightning spell.

You use your offensive spells from memorized scrolls to use the INT stat, and fill the sorcerer slots with buffs.

But the flaw I found is you have 2-4 less sorcery points, you are giving up an extra quicken or twinned chain lightning for 1-2 max damage rolls with some amulet that adds a divinity charge, but that amulet is very close to the end of the game so meh.

In earlier DnD games there were usually features where your total caster level is based on levels in that class, so if you tried such multiclasses your spells would be a lot weaker. In BG3 doesnt matter what combination of caster classes you take, you get the same number of spell slots and only need 1-2 wizard level to memorize all the spells.

But even if you nerf the multiclass options, still doesnt change the fact that 12 sorc >>>> 12 wizard.

Hi folks, as there was another Wizard feedback thread starting up, I've directed that discussion here and suggest we make this the main Wizard class implementation discussion & feedback thread. I've renamed it accordingly (it was "No other way to look at it - Wizards are just 100% trash in BG3"), and stickied it in the Build Discussion forum where there are already a couple of other class feedback threads.

The lv10 Wizard passive is incredibly powerful as well. With its bonus my Ancient Strategem spell learned from the Ramazith tower scroll is doing upwards of 140+ damage with the clown gloves and that spell recharges on a short rest. Your lv10 cantrips with the wizard passive hit for 24-30+ damage. It also gives you a bonus on landing the secondary effects of the aoe spell.

What is Ancient Stratagem? I googled “BG3 ‘Ancient Stratadem’” and that returns no results.

It's the scroll from the book The Red Knight's Final Stratagem, I may be misremembering the spell name. It's basically a magic missiles on mega steroids. One cast per short rest if a Wizard learns the scroll. Works just like magic missiles, a flurry of guaranteed strikes, you can select a target for each missile, except the missiles are way stronger than magic missiles. Your caster modifier for the wizard lv10 passive bonus also gets baked in, so Wizards do a metric ton of damage with it.

Artistry of War

Thanks!

Yea but 95% hold monster on Raphael and Spectators with heighten lulz.


And then I noticed something funky going on with the restoration pools and sorcery points:


The evocation cantrip bonus at level 10 you mean? Theres an amulet that does the same thing.

I think the fact that the Wizard gets unique/exclusive spells that no one else has access to (yes they can use the scroll but then they are gone forever as opposed to scribing them in a spellbook) just denotes how special they are compared to Sorcerers.
Also is there any point playing a Custom Wizard when Gale's story so heavily plays into the fantasy of being a Wizard.

The problem being most if not all of those extra spells are trash.

I've not needed to purchase or cast any spells from scrolls while playing a Sorcerer and not using a Wizard except for story stuff on Gale.

Only 1 spell I've found myself wishing I had used was resilient spere - on just 2 or 3 NPCs that need saving and die a bit quick from mobs, though then I think either sanctuary or feign death would also work for that.

And actually looking at the spell description, I dont think the sphere blocks damage, just looks like hold spells without the auto crits meh/

My major sticking point for Sorcerers is the lack of unique/exclusive spells. Even Warlocks and Bards get special spells, Sorcerers can modify/alter existing spells thanks to metamagic, but don't have anything in their spell lists other classes have.

I'm sure dipping into wizard has its uses in certain builds, but the more I've looked at it, the less enticing I find the option.

It's all in the details. In most builds, Int and/or Cha often tends to be a dump stat. Not in this build, though. So, Str gets dumped. But there's still a need for something in Dex and Con, and who wants to dump Wis? You end up stretched thin with an Int that hovers around 14.

Using the warped headband to get a 17 is still just a 17 in the later game, which isn't great for wizard spells. And there's a lousy opportunity cost at play here. Suddenly, you can't wear any of the other head gear.

Which means you leave your Int lower than you'd really like. Or you lower your Cha, which doesn't feel great as a primary sorcerer.

*

Next, if you take two levels of wizard to get the subclass, you miss out on an extra metamagic and a feat. Sculpt spells is really nice, but do you want to give up a feat and quicken or heighten spell?

There's just a heavy cost for a minimal return.

*

As far as getting some extra versatility with a greater spell selection... have you seen how many scrolls you build up throughout the game? You can cast those at whim. The versatility is already there, teeming throughout the game.

*

For folks thinking this is an overly powerful option, I heavily suggest actually playing it. Do a test. Run a game with a wizard dip, then run a game without. I'm not convinced it's as broken as some folks are suggesting.

Its an irrelevant point and for a lack of better terminology, sorry to say what I consider a 'newb trap'.

Its a point that sounds good on paper, and is likely a lot better in PnP, but in BG3 has no relevance because 75% of the spells in this game are trash. Also every spell you cast you have to use a spell slot, so are you really ever going to be casting any of the less powerful spells in a playthrough other than to just see what they do? Any of the spells you do take on a wizard, you cannot quicken or heighten, so every round of combat you half the usefulness of a sorc. Also most of the 'utility spells', you get for free on Druids. 'Even warlocks get special spells? They have 3 spell slots per short rest, why waste them on 'special spells' instead of your strongest damage option? Bards are interesting but the general feedback remains the same across all DnD games, their spells usually suck. Their narrow spell selection sucks even more in BG3 because they mostly get illusion and enchantment spells, but without heighten these spells rarely work!

I've gone through my first playthrough on tactitian and not memorized a single scroll on Gale. Yes. He is just a gimp if left as a pure Wizard. I tried gaseous form, its useless. All concentration buffs other than haste, pointless and he can't twin them. Scorching ray is the biggest trap in the game, waste of a spell slot and a turn, in fact every level 2 spell other than hold person is a waste of a spellslot.

I no longer even cast magic missile ever, got EB from the feat and by act 3 its always at 95% chance to hit. Level 1 & 2 slots are mostly fodder for 'create sorcery points'.

So I redid my spells again:

Level 1: No spells other than dragon spell
Level 2:Just hold person, rarely cast at level 2, usually upcast with heighten.
Level 3: Fireball (OR lightning bolt, only one not both), haste, counterspell, blink (total immunity while not using concentration spells)
Level 4: Just wall of fire (I found myself never using a spell slot on ice storm)
Level 5: Cloudkill, Hold Monster, Dominate Person (Two free allies with 95 - 99% chance with a level 6 heightened upcast, or just one at level 5, super useful).
Level 6: Chain Lightning, Disintegrate, Sunbeam, all are good, and I have 3 freecast clickies and 1 level 6 slot restore item.

Most other spells are ruined by too many being concentration tag, why would I ever cast a weaker spell that also needs concentration? Most of the other CC options only last 2 turns - level 5 spell slot for a 2 turn banishment? Really??? No other damage options are needed, cantrips and EB from spell sniper cover anything a level 1 or 2 damage spell would.

Hmm. Well argued and we'll reasoned. I will think on it.