Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Build Discussion Wizard Class Implementation: Discussion & Feedback

Disclaimer - Wizards were always my favourite DnD class until now.

In most previous versions and games of DnD, metamagics were normal feats that any class could take.

Wizards also used to get a free caster feat at level 1 and every 5th level after.

Sorcerers were typically feat and spell starved, but cast a lot more spells and simply had more spell slots per day.

Now in BG3 only sorcerers get quicken and heighten. Across every DnD game with metamagics, no one ever dares to even try to play a Wizard without at least Quicken and Heighten, as those two being mandatory to actually make your spells effective.

Enter BG3, the first DnD game where Wizards don't even have quicken and heighten. Only one spell per round, and with way lower DCs than a Sorc can do, which is just lul because typically Sorcs are blasters and Wizards were historically superior as high DC casters.

Easy fix, bring back getting a metamagic every 5th level for Wizards (so quicken and heighten can be taken at level 5 and 10, or any other inferior metamagic) and let them be powered from those arcane charges of theirs, for balance sake thats only 2 metamagic feats and have their arcane charges limited to +1 every 2 levels which I think they already are, so they only get to quicken two spells at level 12 ... well I mean I still wouldn't play a wizard, cos even thats still lame.

And none of that is even factoring in that other than for class attack DC, Int is the most useless stat in the game, but don't even get me started on that one.

Your problem is that you compare DnD 3E with 5E.
In DnD 5E only sorcerers get meta magic, wizards get school specialisation instead.

One big Problem are the huge rule changes Larian made in BG3
- DnD rules: Only 1 spell lv1 or higher per round, haste can only be used for one additional attack --- BG3: cast 3 fireballs per round with haste and quicken
- DnD: lots of useful buff, debuff and utility spells --- BG3: Just blast everything in the first round, concentration is gone quickly and there is a high chance you die before you can act when the enemy acts first.

solution: BG3 should follow the DnD rules more closely
- not giving players or NPC extra actions or bonus actions
- follow the rules about what counts as action, bonus action or reaction (looking at BA shove and BA feather fall for example)
- spells do what they are supposed to do (haste not giving an action that can be used for anything for example)

Some changes cannot be avoided because its a computer game and some other changes can be good too.
But messing around with action economy will lead to desaster. Its even written in one of the rule books.
"Players can use their own rules as they seem fit, but changes to actions/bonus action/reactions can totally ruin your game" (Not the exact words, but they wrote something similar.)

There are a couple scrolls you learn later if your a wizard. I won't tell you where due to spoilers, but dethrone and a upgraded level 6 magic missile that does nearly 100 dmg. With you can cast 4 level 6 spells a battle doing up to 400 damage every long rest. It's busted

You havent played fifth edition have you?

My divination wizard Gale disagrees with you. No one saves the day better than this boy. In BG3 wizard specific features are also capped at level 10, which implies the preference for multi-classing. I went with Wild Magic (2) dip, but Warlock or Fighter both seem great options for a 2 level dip.

Its in my recent thread / video I made where I respecced my sorc spells to include hold person and monster.

Cast a level 5 heightened hold person on the githyanki ambush, 65% > 88% on the main boss, 90% > 99% on the normal mobs.

Wizard and divine casters will never be able to do that.

Ok so you mention specializations yes. Wizard specializations in BG3 don't even improve spell DC like they did in all previous games, don't know if thats a 5e rules thing or not.

So DC casting or damage spell casting, sorcs do everything better.

Oh but look, wizards are the most versatile, they can learn all the spells ...

Memorize a scroll, 100+ gold based on scroll level. Talk to Withers with my sorc, 100 gold any time I want to change all my spells.

Sorcerers are the most versatile and if you actually want your spells to work.

So my current loadout for spells is:

Level 1 - Magic Missile, Shield, Ray of Sickness from green dragon (I removed chromatic orb because I never used it over twinned ray of sickness for green dragon sorc)
Level 2 - Scorching Ray, Hold Person
Level 3 - Fireball, Counterspell, Blink (removed lightning bolt because I never needed to use it over fireball)
Level 4 - Ice Storm, Wall of Fire
Level 5 - Cloudkill, Hold Monster.

Metamagics - Twinned, Quicken, Heighten, and whichever last one thats never used, currently distant spell because eh it might come in handy sometime.

And still MM and Scorching Ray might be swappable to other stuff.

All the damage cantrips - EB from Spell Sniper, Fire Bolt, Shocking Grasp, Ray of Frost, Acid Splash, Poison Spray, Bone Chill

So in the rare case enemies are immune / resistant to both poison and fire, I can just use whichever cantrip. Level 12 feat I'm planning on warcaster or whatever its called for advantage on concentration and shocking grasp opportunity attacks.

Currently also using Jaheira as a spore druid, so I have 2x cloudkill and also 2x wall of fire / ice storm as needed. Stuff just melts. When not needed Jaheira can also tank and melee or shapeshift, but I like her more for the extra damage spells.

I could also drop spell sniper and take 2 levels of warlock for stronger EB, but I want to wait and see if that means losing level 6 spells and if I really need any of those as opposed to just using the level 6 slot for cloudkill as well.

On the one hand most of the problems you mentioned are because DnD 5e is garbage, utter trash. On the other hand concentration spells are garbage in BG3. So wizards perform badly. I do prefer the PF system although it has also a lot of stupid things in it.

The way i see how Larian implemented BG3 rules.
Not knowing properly all intricacies of 5e, but decided to make game based on it.
Met "carpet bombing" of critics about how 5e rules actually works, but internally decided to go with: "Well, we personally get used to play D&D in different ways, with 2+ fireball per round etc. So, we stick to it".
And later when encountered problems with some encounters being too easy, instead of adjusting core mechanics to real D&D mechanics - artificially attempted to buff some bosses.

Which actually brakes the whole concept of D&D, system designed to be understandable for newcomers. In BG3 - you really have to minmax and follow meta, to be good in game. Or shame yourself by switching to "story" difficulty.

Wizards do need something to compete with how much of a buff Sorcerers got with Quicken and Heighten being drastically improved, and in general flexibility being at less of a premium because there's only so many ways you can use Disguise Self.

+ 1000

It's a 100% this. All your complaints are aimed at 5E not at BG3, which, as far as Metamagic and Spells go, follows the 5E. As another poster already pointed out, a bigger issue is the weakness of concentration spells and the ease with which enemies break it.

I can tell you first-hand that a high level wizard in BG3 can be staggeringly destructive. If you combine the fact that Wizards are at a disadvantage with how concentration spells were implemented and some Larianisms in the interpretation of Figher/Barb abilities (weird jumps, shoves, very powerful melee weapons and armors) it's easy to understand why melee combatants feel alot more powerful.

Strong Disagree. Ritual casting aside, Rogue 2/Diviner 10 is very strong in end-game. Hell, Diviners all the way through can make a huge, life-saving difference (especially on Tactician mode).

I prefer god ol 2nd edition BG2 wizards. God tire class. As it should be.

And man, having access to lev 6,7 , 8,9 spells. So much fun. Tons of utility.
Lets see the some of the stand outs :


(Level 6) Death Spell: This is a very powerful spell that will instantly kill all enemies with lower than an 8 Hit Dice. One notable enemy type that this will instantly take out is trolls, basically all types of them will be one shot by this spell. This will save you the trouble of having to knock them down then deal fire or acid damage to them to take them out.

(Level 6) Improved Haste: Probably one of the best spells in the entire game. This spell will double the amount of attacks you can perform each round (up to a max of 10) and it doesn't Fatigue you when it wears off. Using this spell on a Fighter/Mage that dual wields is going to pump out some serious DPS on enemies.

(Level 6) Mislead: Essentially what this spell does is it casts Improved Invisibility on the Wizard and then creates a duplicate to act as a distraction where the Wizard used to be. This spell is exceptionally powerful to get a surpise jump on an enemy or group of enemies.

(Level 6) Protection from Magical Energy: This spell is great and a must use before going into a fight against caster enemies on higher difficulties. It essentially makes you immune to lots of magical based attacks. One added bonus of this spell is it lasts for 1 round per level which is 6 seconds of real time per level.

(Level 6) Protection from Magical Weapons: Much like with the previous spell, this one is amazing and it makes you immune to all attacks from magical weapons -- which is basically all melee attacks at this point in the game.

(Level 6) True Sight: This spell will dispel any illusion effect around the caster. Invisibility, Improved Invisibility, Mirror Image and more all will be dispelled. What's more is True Sight will continue to dispel these spells every round until it expires.

(Level 6) Contingency: This spell is kind of like Minor Sequencer except that it works slightly differently. For this spell you're able to select 1 spell as a "Contingency" which is a spell that will automatically be cast when a certain condition is met. Some of the possible conditions are getting hit, HP dropping to 50%, 25% or 10%, spotting an enemy, being helpless or becoming poisoned.



(Level 7) Mordekainen's Sword: One of the better summons that you can create in the game. This sword is immune to almost all damage and it'll last 6 seconds IRL time per level of your Wizard. So, very likely almost 2 minutes or more.

(Level 7) Project Image: Arguably the most useful spell in the entire game in terms of the amount of bang for your buck. This spell will create a mirror image of the wizard who can't use physical attack but can use all spells HLAs and items that the Wizard has on them... Best of all is when you use a spell or an HLA it doesn't consume anything on your actual Wizard.

(Level 7) Ruby Ray of Reversal: This is another spell that is used to strip Mage's defenses or other high level boss enemies. On Core Rules and higher you'll definitely need to use spells like this but otherwise they typically are not needed.

(Level 7) Spell Sequencer: Much like the level 4 Minor Sequencer spell this one allows you to pick 3 different spells of Level 4 or below. Really there are too many combinations to name but you can choose between different defensive combos and combos with powerful spells like Flame Arrow which will almost one shot many enemies.

(Level 7) Limited Wish: This spell does a wide variety of different things, some of them are 1 wish per save game and some of them are repeatable wishes. I recommend you check the wiki for a complete list. Ultimately, this spell is worth it for playing around with outside of combat but not too useful in combat.

(Level 7) Spell Turning: When you have this spell active it will reflect any spells cast on the Wizard back at the original caster. This spell has a total of 12 "spell level" charges meaning it will reflect a total of 12 spell levels back to the caster. It could do 12 Magic Missiles or 5 Magic Missiles and 2 Breach (breaking on the last Breach). Essentially the amount of spells it reflects depends on the level of the spell.

(Level 7) Finger of Death: You have a chance of one shotting your target with this spell, otherwise they take 2d8+1 damage. It's basically a gamble and if you're someone who saves and reloads a lot you can always change the outcome of these gambles to what you want.




(Level 8) Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting: Arguably the best damage-based spell you can cast for this spell level; it comes with the added bonus of being party friendly too. This spell will deal 1d8 damage per level, enemies are allowed a Saving Throw roll which will result in them only taking half damage but even in that situation it's still insane damage. Pair this spell with Chain Contingency so you do Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting x3 and you'll decimate the entire field of enemies.

(Level 8) Incendiary Cloud: This is going to be your other damage spell for level 8. Incendiary Cloud does even more damage than Horrid Wilting since it will continuously proc the damage it deals instead of only doing it once.

(Level 8) Power Word, Blind: It's essentially an AoE blind which works better than the original Blind since there are no Saving Throw rolls for it. For those of you who don't already know, in BG2 when an enemy can't see you they do not attack you which means this spell will reliably take enemies out of the fight.

(Level 8) Simulacrum: One of the best spells in the game. When you use this spell it will create a duplicate of the caster with all of the spells, abilities and items the original caster has. Essentially you're able to duplicate one of the most powerful people on your team and get a 7th party member out of them. This spell works best on mage hybrids like Fighter/Mage.

(Level 8) Spell Trigger: This spell works similarly to the Minor Sequencer and Spell Sequencer spells that came before it. The main difference is you're able to put higher level spells into this Spell Trigger which gives you even more possible combinations.

(Level 8) Maze: Another CC that is available to you at level 8. This one will incapacitate a target for an amount of time that depends on the target's Intelligence score. What that means is this CC will be more effective on dumber targets like Fighters or other melee that can't cast spells.





(Level 9) Chain Contingency: This spell is a lot like Contingency which you get at Level 6; the main difference being you can choose higher level spells with this version. Essentially how this spell works is you can choose 3 different spells that will be cast when a certain condition is met. There are so many different choices I won't name them all here but some of them can be found in my BG2 Beginner's Guide Combat Strategies page.

(Level 9) Imprisonment: Another extremely powerful spell that will instantly remove an enemy from the fight. This spell can be used against some of the hardest enemies in the game like Beholders. One thing worth noting about this spell is you will get the EXP when it is successful but you will not get any items. So be careful who you use this on.

(Level 9) Spellstrike: You can use this spell to dispel almost all magical protections on an enemy. If you're playing on Core Rules you probably will not have to use this spell very often but as you move up higher and higher in difficulty you'll need to use this a lot more to strip enemy mages of their defenses.

(Level 9) Time Stop: Many people consider this one of the best spells if not the best spell in the entire game. As the name of the spell suggests it literally stops time and lets you perform pretty much any actions you want while time is stopped. You'll see many Liches and other high level mage enemies use this spell against you often, now you can turn the tides!

(Level 9) Wish: Wish does a large variety of things, both positive and negative. Your Wisdom score plays a large part in what wishes you get when you cast this spell. I recommend you check out the wiki page for a much more indepth explanation of what this spell does.

(Level 9) Spell Trap: Spell Trap absorbs spells that are cast on you and refunds you with additional daily spell casts.

(Level 9) Freedom: Really the only time you should ever memorize or use this spell is when someone in your group gets trapped by an Imprisonment spell.

Well I'm playing it now with this game, and 5e is complete trash compared to all previous rulesets.

I dont get why each new ruleset gets worse and worse.

Still not even half as strong as a sorcerer.

Want to save your party? Use a heightened hold person / hold monster, job done.

You are thinking of Art of War which is a level 5 evocation spell. Not level 6.

Tadpole frecast let's you cast a spell without costing you an action. The Markoheshkir staff lets you cast a spell without using a spell slot but it still takes an action, big difference. According the wiki, there is no staff that straight up gives freecast.

The Staff is definitely strong but I would not call it OP compared to the legendaries melee characters get in chapter 3. In fact Melee characters tend to get better weapons throughout the game. The only other good staff in the game, spellsparkler, you get much earlier. You essentially can keep your gear as a wizard the same through 90% of the game.

The same gear on a sorcerer is just vastly better. They can use the twincast to double the damage a wizard would have done. they can use quicken to cast an additional spell for free, they can use heighten to make a spell win a roll against a difficult to hit boss, ect. The only reason to go Wizard was that you can change your spells outside of combat at will but that's rendered moot by the fact that you can respec at any time in this game. A sorcerer in BG3 can essentially change their spells at will so you might as well go that class and get it's other benefits as well. Yes sorcerers cannot learn the 2-3 hidden spells in act 3 but TBH those are nowhere near enough to make up the difference between the two.

On top of that wizards are not great feeling to play throughout most of the game. They are outshined in the game until the end of charpter 2 and mostly serve as utility pieces and CC. Single target damage cannot touch a well geared fighter that gets a minimum of 4-5 50 dmg+ swings per turn except in the instances where enemies are grouped or line up (which is CC as mentioned above) Compared to BG2, wizards in BG3 pale in comparison. So much more fun to play wizards in BG2 or any mage class in Divinity Original Sin 2.

The only redeeming quality might be that wizards typically tend to have an advantage when discovering the secrets of whatever that necro book was called. That is completely OP and should be nerfed.

Played BG2 always solo only with my sorcerer. Timestop was also really usefull. And skull trap as well.

And yes what Turnip said was the best thing about BG2, the spell combat of that game has never been beat by any other game.

Wizards are more than fine in 5e, it's the Bg3 adaption of the ruleset is questionable. Concentration has already been mentioned and the controll spells being nerfed. Additionally BG3 is littered with OP melee weapons and gear which drastically changes the power balance between the classes. Add in no attunement and melee makes casters look like trash.

That being said, casters still add some tactical tools which can massively impact the battle. We are missing a critical gear type for casters though: spell foci. An Arcane Grimoire +2 increasing spell DC would be comparable to a +2 greatsword. We have a lot of weapons and gear for melee, very little that helps spell DC's. Casters seems to have been mostly forgotten in itemization that's useful and not just weird gimmicks.

No that is not true. Wizards are trash in DnD 5e but in BG3 it got even worse. The amount of spellslots is ridiculous and this is because of DnD 5e. Casters are much more fun in PF where all casters have access to metamagic FEATS not only sorcerer. WotC simplified the rules for 5e because the people are braindead and too stupid to choose proper feats for their class so there are not many feats left. If they do not want to give wizards metamagic they should give them some other good stuff instead. More spell slots per day for example

What Turnip said wouldn't make Wizard better vs Sorcerer though, or? That's your main complaint, right? I really enjoyed the playthrough with my Wizard. It's my favorite class usually. It's probably not the best class in BG3, but it seemed fine to me.

I don't see how you can compare re-speccing to learning spells with scrolls and then easily adapting on the fly to whatever you need. Your spell loadout is fine, but as a Wizard you just have many more options and can try those out easily (I think I had all of yours except Ray plus things like Thunderwave, Haste, Conjure Elemental, Banishment around the same time). Need Feather Fall, or Knock? Two clicks and you have them. Same is true for sub-classes. Want a blaster, Evoker. But you can also play a Necromancer, a Wizard who relies mostly on CC and so on. There a so many fun spells in BG3 and as a Wizard you can have enjoy and play around with them all.

Is a Wizard better than a Sorc in battle? Probably not, but I don't think that's a big issue. You still do plenty of damage if you want to play a Wizard instead of a Sorcerer. Metamagic is powerful and a lot of fun (I play a Sorc on my second playthrough), but I do feel much more limited with my spell selection and overall less helpful outside of combat, except for dialogues where Charisma is great. Sorc also has some really fun lines, whereas most of the creativity of the Wizard dialogue options were likely spent on Gale and Elminster.

Itemization generally seems to be better for melee classes, and in terms of dialogue options, the team clearly had more fun with some races and classes than others, but I don't think you can say a Wizard is 100% trash in this game.

I think it is an issue as there is relatively little use for magic outside of combat after Act 1.

Also, I think all the people just saying it is per 5e are really either not understanding or downplaying how massive the Larian buffs to Sorcerer are. The Quicken Spell metamagic alone is *HUGE* and keeping it as a fixed cost of 3 Sorcery points (+1 vs 5e) regardless of spell slot absurdly low. Even things like the Haste buff allowing more spell casts per round is a larger buff to Sorcerers since it acts as an multiplier and can be combined with i.e. Twinned Spells.

There's also some other buffs to Sorcerers such as they getting an extra metamagic pick and an extra bloodline feature early compared to RAW. For example, the flight from draconic bloodlines is moved earlier to level 11 allowing you to get it in game. In contrast, Wizard progression is kept as per RAW which for keeps abilities like evocation's Overchannel out of player hands, even though it is supposed to be granted at the same level as flight for Sorcerers.

Larian also adds a lot of items that grant extra spell casts, which also helps the Sorcerer overcome their otherwise smaller amount of flexibility.

Wizards make better Summoners since Sorcerers do not get Summon Elemental. However, with the weird multiclassing changes you can just play Sorcerer 10/Evoker 2 - that way you sacrifice Sorcerer level 11 passive and a feat for getting the nice Sculpt Spell feature plus the ability to learn spells from scrolls from all levels (!) just like a Wizard.

You are right, but compared to older versions of DnD and to PF wizards are much weaker. Better to have a fighter (with three or even more attacks per round). At least Larian should overhaul concentration. And not allow even Goblins to move across the complet battlefield to go for your mage.

Wow didn't realize it was that bad. Haven't touched D&D stuff post 3.5.
So much more spell slots in D&D 3/3.5 ! And even more for D&D second E. (I now only mostly play Pathfinder or D&D3.5).

Only one lvl 9 spell slot for a lvl 20 wizard? Ridiculous.

I was wondering how crap it is that you get no extra spell slots at level 12, god what the heck have they done to spell slots in 5e???

This is just the trashiest ruleset ever for arcane spells.

Between level 12 and 18 only 1 level 6 slot like wth is the point???

I agree that 5e really dropped the ball when it comes to spells per day. It's really bogus.

Two things you have to keep in mind are:

1.) 5e casters get much more powerful cantrips than their 3.5e/PF1e counterparts. When out of spell slots, they're no longer limited to using a sling or casting acid splash for a whopping 1d3 points of damage.

2.) 5e wizards can cast ANY spell they have prepared, whereas 3.5e/PF1e wizards had to prepare specific spells in specific slots. Don't underestimate the power of flexibility - a level 20 5e Wizard can have multiple 6th-9th level spells prepared and choose the best one for the situation.

I prefer to cast time stop four times a day and could do without cantrips. I guess they canceled time stop in 5e? Did they?

So in PF:WotR i can make a extremly powerful sorcerer or wizard WITHOUT a single damage spell or conjuration spell. This is not possible in BG3! And that is the main difference. There are more schools of magic than Evocation and Conjuration. Furthermore the concentration concept of 5e is bullshit and inconsistent because you do not need concentration for summoning creatures. Seems they nerfed all schools of magic except Evocation and Conjuration.

So what when you can hardly even use level 6+ spells, this isn't 'more powerful'.

Use a sling when out of spells? In BG2 you just polymorph self instead or multi / dual class some thief or fighter levels and use better weapons.

@schpas Time stop exists in 5e, but in a weaker form. 1.) You can't put down multiple surfaces that'll all directly harm an enemy. 2.) 5e wizards are limited by concentration, which'll heavily restrict the amount of buffing/AoE effects you can do while time stopped.

Depends on the level. I'd put the tradeoff point somewhere around level 15. Until that point, a 5e Wizard basically has the same number of high-level slots as a 3.5e/PF Wizard, but with the flexibility of D&D 5e casting. A 5e wizard has more powerful cantrips, whereas a 3.5e wizard has scaling leveled spells (e.g., the 1st level spell Snowball will do 5d6 damage at levels 5+).

To refocus on BG3 and the thread topic: high level spell slots aren't as relevant as the level cap is 12 (and you can long rest ~anytime). So casters pretty much just strictly benefit from the more powerful cantrips and spell preparation mechanics. Imo BG3 is more directly comparable to BG1 than BG2, and it's BG1/low-levels that a wizard would default to a sling for most turns.

I agree Wizards are nowhere near as good as Sorcerers. However, I don't agree the solution is to give them metamagic to enable them to do what a Sorcerer can do. We already have Sorcerers available to do what Sorcerers do.

Given how much worse Wizards were than Sorcerers, I was a little surprised Wizards weren't less popular. The only class that is really unpopular is the Cleric, so I think Larian will adjust Cleric sooner than they will Wizard.

Take away scroll casting from those that shouldn't have it and suddenly the wizard will look much better. Then remove the consumables that shouldn't exist and their homebrewed (pun!) Alchemy system. Give casters their ability to craft scrolls based on spells known (massively favoring wizards of course) and see what you think. Pruning the massive amounts of scrolls everywhere would add value to wizards scribing a few extra fireball scrolls for the day.

If they just used to the bloody rules they have license for they'd immediately improve the game, aaargh!

Man, these outcries for how "good" 3.5 used to be are getting so fucking old after all these years.

Also, note the disconnect between "muh mage doesn't feel powerful enough" and the unchanging reality across multiple D&D versions of casters getting pretty much fucking broken at higher level.
5th edition included.


Yep.

Hard disagree. The evocation passives are plain busted. Removing friendly fire from your aoe spells and adding spell casting modifier make for extremely potent and efficient aoe damage, whereas sorcs and warlocks have to select less targets to affect with an aoe spell so as not to splash their martials, summons, and ally npcs.

Moreover, the sheer flexibility of Wizard courtesy of scrolls is crazy. The problem is that just like rogue, powerful passives like learning spells via scrolls or extra attacks from rogue or action surge from fighter should not be made available via multiclass. Multiclass really ruins the viability of pure builds because for many classes, the later level passives don't overcome the sheer OP nature of extra actions or scroll learning. Gear like the 17 int circlet also guarantees that you can use wizard spell without much of an issue as an off-class.

But this is not wizards being weak, this is itemization and consumables and multiclass passive availability breaking the balance. Same goes for abusing surprise and sneak attacks or throwing potions for an aoe heal where consuming the potion only heals one person. Stupid design.

Lol wizards are amazing in this game and in general far better in 5e than 3.5 especially when it comes to early game.

More spell slots are needed sure, and scroll casting should go for classes that aren't supposed to (or intelligence scores below 8) but that's it.

More spell slots would be welcome, or (if I may) downcasting. The homebrewed larian potions are amazing and well flavoured so leave them.

The biggest downside to wizard is that there is very little reason to go several levels in Wizard. You only need 1 lvl to get access to every wizard spell in the game.

Specialisation bonuses

What you quoted said 'very little reason' - not no reason. But I would agree that in some cases the level 2 spec bonus is pretty juicy, so you would likely want to go 2 levels in.

But still, with some specialization in a particular element a Sorcerer 10/Wizard 2 is superior to the Wizard in pretty much every way and can learn all spells. You can get sculpt spells, learn all spells, have stat bonus to one element of your choice and metamagic.

You know I played 2E and 3.5e for years and I actually prefer 5E for a number of reasons.

However, the problem - as has been pointed out is that you don't understand 5E at all. Otherwise you would know that Wizards only get 1 level 9 spell slot but they DO get Arcane recovery points, and there are items in game that can recover other spells slots - potentially up to 9th level. There is an item in Bg3 that can recover any level spell slot once per long rest.

So you can cast 1 x 9th level spell in a combat situation, but then you can spend Arcane recovery charges to recover that 9th level slot without having to long rest. So if BG3 allowed you to go to level 20 then you would potentially get 3 uses of a 9th level spell per long rest.

Then there are the potions that let you recover all spell slots and act as a long rest for a single character.

But again, your frustration is stemming from a lack of understanding of the core system and why it was designed this way.

For starters, it's important to understand that 5E D&D has been the most financially successful version of D&D in the history of the game and has brought in the largest new player base - at 10 million players. 3.5 managed to hook about 3 million. 2nd edition was under 1 million.

The reason is that it's solved a lot of the problems:

1) The proficiency rules are highly simplified, with the majority of things just requiring Advantage or Disadvantage - so no need to look up a million different modifiers.
2) The role versus class system has been upended. Clerics are not stuck as healbots anymore. Healing as a role is not required at all with how cheap healing potions are (this is a specific feature of tabletop) so no more healbots. Additionally the Rogue role can be held by a half dozen classes. So a specific "rogue" is not needed anymore. The Tank role has been vastly opened up, and any class can be Damage dealers.
3) The variable BAB system has been thankfully shitcanned. It made zero sense and was a gatekeeper to playing certain classes in ways people wanted to play them. Variable BAB is the worst part of the previous editions and its pathetic that it's still in Pathfinder - which otherwise would have been a decent system except for that.
4) Spellcasters - while still insanely powerful - have been better balanced at both ends of the leveling spectrum. They are not AS Godlike at high levels, but not as weak at lower levels either. It's a welcome change.
5) There is no longer 10 minutes of buffing right before 5 minutes of combat for all the casters to do. Mechanically this limitation makes games flow so much better when you either cast a handful of ritual buffs after your long rest or you throw one out during combat and it's the only one you can do because of concentration rules - allowing you to spend the rest of the battle in actual fighting.
6) Bards and Druids are much more viable in combat/support while still being insanely useful in roleplay. It used to be only 1 of these things was true.

Also, I have not had issues with the concentration thing past Act 1. It's so easy to find items that give you Advantage on concentration (constitution) saving throws that you rarely need Warcaster or resilient. However, you should still protect your caster unless they are super armored up. Obviously you shoudl never run a caster with a Con below 14 unless you want to have a more difficult experience.

So basically 2 wizard / 10 sorc and you can also have all the flexibility, evocation specialization, metamagics, and just give up your level 6 spell slot?

Lol, vastly superior to pure Wizard.

But what flexibility do you even need when 90% of the spells are garbage? Wizards in 5e simply seem like a newbie trick, the flexibility seems great on paper until you realize it really isnt.

You can still only cast the same number of spells either way, and I haven't found any need for any of the 'utility spells', which you can also get most of on Druids anyway and the game gives you 2 druid companions.

People mentioning 'I've played wizard and its good', but have you actually compared it to a sorc's metamagics? Have you even seen what heightened holds do? Nullify all the mobs in most encounters and score auto crits? What utility would I need to ever have to give up heightened hold?

Yes Bg3 implements Sculpt spell in a way that it applies to any spell you cast whether it be from a scroll, wand, item or other class.

It's not a bad trade, but you then miss out on Empowered Evocation at level 10 - which is insane especially when it comes to Magic Missile (an evocation spell) as EVERY single missile then gets your +6 damage modifier (I have 22 Int on Gale) which averages to 8-10 damage per missile. A level 5 Magic Missile with Psychic Spark necklace shoots 7 missiles for 56-70 damage. Level 1 throws out 4 missiles 32-40 damage.

I've played every edition of D&D since the original AD&D. The "classic" wizard was basically useless at low levels, resorting to pinging with a crossbow from the back ranks, if anything. But, at higher levels, when fighters were retiring from adventuring to be feudal lords, they had universe-changing power. Over the years, that's gotten more and more flattened — more useful at low levels, much less god-like at the top. Of course, with BG3 only going up to 12th level, that tier doesn't really come into it... but there's another fundamental problem.

In a tabletop game, utility spells and int-based skills can make a big difference and be useful and fun. A CRPG is by nature combat-heavy, and also needs to deliver story information — key points really _can't_ be hidden behind a "a wizard needs to research this". A human DM can adjust based on the party, and can find ways to center a wizard character's abilities.

Also, of course, CRGP combat focus means spell slots go fast, leaving you quickly back to "ping ping ping" with cantrips. Without changing the game a lot, one easy buff would be to introduce wands as a magic item — and make them keyed to Int as the spell ability for saves (and maybe even automatic level-scaling — add your int bonus to the level spell you get from one wand charge?). And, make them recharge on a short rest. (Change the "if you use all charges, and then get a 1 on a d20 roll, the wand crumbles" into "won't recharge until morning".) This wouldn't change the utility aspect, but at least give some differentiated combat options.

Oh, and one little thing that might make some difference: bring back the Identify spell, and use the Variant: More Difficult Identification rule from the DMG": If you prefer magic items to have a greater mystique, consider removing the ability to identify the properties of a magic item during a short rest, and require the identify spell, experimentation, or both to reveal what a magic item does. This is a wizard only spell (or bard). Make it so properties are only revealed (and enabled!) slowly if you don't cast this.

(I haven't actually tried Detect Magic, ever... does it help with looting? Because if it does, that sure would be a godsend!)

The surest way to appreciate the sheer flexibility of the wizard in Baldur's Gate 3 is to go play a mage in Baldur's Gate 1.

Go on. Hop to it. It'll be a life-changing experience, I assure you.

In any case, the real advantage to the wizard vs. the sorcerer, warlock, or bard is being able to learn spells from scrolls and just... have them in your spellbook at all times. The other wizard-adjacent spellcasting classes learn spells on level-up, which isn't too restrictive since you can respec with Withers, but it does mean that they lack the ability to freely swap prepared spells in and out without going back to camp and paying for a respec and going through the motions of DOING the respec level-by-level each time. So wizards can get a fair bit more use out of those situational spells, by virtue of not having as much pressure on them to choose between a situational spell at level-up and a more obviously flexible spell.

I think it is really weird how for one people assume that you just didn't try Wizard or that it is all down to 5E while completing ignoring how Larian homebrew massively benefits the Sorcerer.

Looking at general rule changes we have:

• Being able to cast more than one levelled spell per turn is a massive buff to Quicken metamagic
• It make Haste much more powerful and Sorcerers can twin it - moreover twinning spells is multiplicative with the extra spellcast action, meaning Sorcerers benefit more than Wizards
• Easy and cheap respec gives you almost the same flexibility as a Wizard
• A defining feature of Wizards (learning spells from scrolls) is given to every full caster for the low cost of a one level dip in Wizard
• Wizard passive boni like sculpt spells apply to Sorcerer spells

If we compare more specific changes just to Sorcerers also got buffed by:

• The level 14 bloodline feature is given at level 11
• You get an extra metamagic pick
• Heightened Spell is intended to apply only one target. Applying it to all is another massive buff.

In contrasts, Wizard do not get their (often powerful) level 14 features early - which means in the context of BG 3 that they do not get it at all.

The evoker bonus isn't too bad, but a draconic bloodline buff to Fire is almost as useful. Just use scorching ray instead of Magic Missile. It also comes with an AC bonus (meaning you do not need Mage Armor = essentially 1 free spell pick) and extra hit points. Most of the time you don't really want to spend a Level 5 slot on an upcast Magic Missile instead of Fireball or another AoE spell anyway.

Fact is that you don't need the flexibility. Many spells are bad and the amount of spells a Sorcerers gets is plenty.

The main thing that Wizards have over Sorcerer is better summons, especially Elementals. That's one more reason why the Evoker (2) + Draconic Bloodline (10) is so powerful, since you also get the Wizard exclusive spells.

5e Wizard vs Sorcerer balance is fine. It is Larian who screwed up. This is not even mentioning relatively minor and trivial issues like scribing scrolls being too expensive compared to magic items - scribing scrolls follows RAW exactly but all other items are priced too cheaply.

I'd propose that Larian should implement a somewhat buffed Metamagic Adept Feat, that gives half your level rounded down Sorcery points instead of a a fixed 2. Given how easily Sorcerers can obtain the main advantages of the Wizard, this is only fair.

E.G Wizards cannot do this:



My guess is that Larian is going to nerf heighten if they ever see this video.

Have you ever played a wizard in BG2? If you reached lvl. 8 or higher wizards became cool. In DnD 5 they have mighty "cantrips" like Gandalf. Cantrips are stupid in general why do we need them? Because there are not enough spell slots. If we had enough spell slots we would not need cantrips. So the concept is stupid in general.

If there would be a fifth foe in the video for example a farting goblin next to your sorcerer you would immediately lose concentration.

It's worth noticing that Sorcerers are also better than WIzards at maintaining concentration since they get their proficiency bonus to constitution saves. A sorcerer with decent constitution and warcaster is therefore reasonably safe with maintaining concentration.

Wizards can get concentration proficiency by taking a feat or there might be some item that gives it (I don't recall offhand) but it either costs you a feat or an item slot.

So far this is per RAW, it just interacts with the way Larian designs encounter to make Wizards even worse than Sorcerers.

In tabletop Sorcerers aren't better than wizards in many ways. They get nothing on short rest, they use the same spellcasting rules as everyone else and while they can get more usage from their spells by twinning haste, chromatic orb, etc. They have got the lowest amount of spells known and can't swap them every long rest.

However, Baldurs gate 3 massively buffed them, they also homebrewed many rules.

A Sorcerer can cast haste on themselves + 1 other person, then fireball, then quicken fireball. They basically cast 3 spells in one turn, while in tabletop they could either:

A) cast fireball with action, quicken a cantrip (but not twin it)

B) quicken fireball and twin cast cantrip, but not have access to counterspell.

Are wizard bad? Not really. The problem is that best way to play BG 3 is to nova the enemy and then lost rest after 1 or 2 fights, which the sorcerer wins due to rule changes.

It doesn’t help that spells such as: hypnotic pattern, sleep and polymorph just suck or that they can be easily remedied by enemies showing their friends.

To make matters worse, grease makes you lose a concentration and the rest of your turn, if you slip. While control spells were nerfed to the ground.

To sum up, wizard are great in tabletop, but much worse than in BG 3 due to reasons above.

This is interesting, personally I prefer playing a Wizard because there are so many Intelligence checks in the game - it really opens a lot of doors and allows you to win a lot of proficiency stuff - which leads to a lot of additional powerful stuff/abilities - without "save scumming".

Although so far it feels like Evocation is the only really powerful subclass of the wizard classes.

Then again, the entire game needs work, bugfixes and balancing so we will have to wait to see what Larian comes up with over the next 6 months to a year.

There may be many intelligence checks, but I think if there is a single check you want to be good at it is persuasion and Sorcerer's are much better at that one.

Necromancers are also decently good (for a wizard).

Actually no, concentration holds very well.

No there actually arent. Theres maybe at most 10% of the intelligence checks as there are CHA ones, and none of them are ever important.

Literally the main reason no one wants to play a Wizard is because yes INT is a useless stat.

I don't think INT vs CHA is the main reason that wizard is bad - it is mostly that metamagic and sorcerers got buffed so much and wizards didn't and suffer from benefit as much from their flexibility as they would in PnP.

Admittedly, Sorcerers have been plaguing the series since the start. In the original games they were a 3E feature shoe-horned into a 2E D&D game. They did not even have a main stat. And as with BG 3 and their homebrew, the HLA homebrew of ToB also buffed Sorcerers since their main drawback ended up not being applicable to level 10 spells.

So at least in this regard it's a worthy successors

I wasn't talking about charisma checks and Charisma and Intelligence checks I have not seen as interchangeable generally. I have a "face" person that deals with Charisma checks and a Wizard for the intelligence stuff - which there is a lot of. The only class that really prioritizes intelligence in a sea of hot, strong, and dumb companions...

There are also spells you just can't get as a sorcerer such as Curriculum of Strategy: Artistry of War and Dethrone, not to mention the flexibility of the spell list in general so grabbing all those ritual spells is a real boon to the party and costs you nothing.

I get that sorcerers do more damage, they are very bursty - but I don't think it's all that important if you know what you are doing as a wizard.

And really people have different playstyles - I very much enjoy the Wizard playstyle, with its focus on understanding and being kind of a spell nerd. You enjoy the burstiness of the Sorcerer and the forceful personality that lets you get away with all kinds of Charisma checks.

I still think you should take a moment and try to understand why 5e is the way it is and how the systems work. It's what I did. I didn't want to come off as that curmudgeonly old man shouting at the youngsters about how the "old system was better". Such a cliche.

I stand corrected. Sorcerers are actually broken.

Taking 1 level of wizard lets you learn all spells from all spell lists and cast them as sorcerer spells including with metamagic. I learned haste from a scroll on my 2 wizard/10 sorc - then cast it using a level 3 sorcery spell slot and twinned it.

That's just broken. Apparently the multiclass system is full of problems like this, where you keep abilities even after you multiclass. Like the Warlock ability Necrotic touch which you can keep for free even after you Respec to another class entirely..

So this is just an implementation problem and likely just an unfinished multiclass system.

I'd bet on it being intended. It's the exact sort of crazy combo thing Larian loves. Doesn't mean it won't be rolled back at some point if enough people complain, but I doubt it is just an oversight. Just speculation of course.

But yes, that is why I was saying that 2 wizard/10 sorc is likely the best all around caster.

I wouldn't call an amazing dip class 100% trash.

But yeah.

*

I was thinking it might be nice if the wizard, at higher levels, could actually enchant items, making pieces of gear better.

No, that's just broken - given everything else I have seen in Act 3 it points to an unfinished system. Bg3 was released in an unfinished state - it's unfortunate but that is where we are right now.

I expect that they will eventually fix this and the many other exploits, cut content, and bugs in the game. In the meantime I wouldn't flex too hard on what is essentially an exploit. Our guild is banning the exploit like we do other exploits- tactician is too easy as it is.

10 Sorc / 2 Wizard also gets sculpt spells.

But you lose a feat I think? I'm only level 11 so still can't try it.

I do want Spell Sniper and War Caster on top of +2 CHA, so I think I'd have to lose spell sniper and EB / increased crit range for 1 or 2 wizard levels.

I only have 14 con on my sorc, but the only time I lose concentration is if I ger paralyzed or knocked prone.

I tried out blink, but going into blink form also drops concentration meh, it would be broken if it didn't.

If you make a half elf or human sorc though you can get 20 AC with 16 dex, I currently only have 18 as a drow. Or 21 AC with the +3 shield, but I'd want to use the +1 DC one.

I think learning from scrolls should be limited to wizard level, not level in general.

*tries to learn spell from scroll
"Wizard level is too low."

But you're not the only one making this mistake, just the arbitrary one I quoted.

I feel like many of you haven't noticed.
Often when you to learn a spell from a scroll on your wizard, it will tell you "wizard level too low."
Not just "level too low." Not "caster level too low." Specifically "WIZARD level too low."

You cannot just take a 1 level dip in wizard and learn all spells. You have to level specifically the wizard class high enough to learn that level spell.
So your one level dip is only you letting learn first level spells. Whoopty doo.

Scroll level is based on char level not wizard level. So yes a 1 wizard / 11 sorc can learn every scroll in the game, a level 4 wizard can't.

Which is a bug, oversight and exploit.

It's like saying wizard are trash because of bug.

Hell, tawern brawler is OP as hell right about now, while most features don’t work for wildshape.

Under tabletop rules, you can't learn all spells by taking a level 1 dip.

Hell, in EA Wizard could learn ALL spells which is just stupid.

A level Wiz 1 / 11 Sorc is wizard level 1. Not wizard level 12. They aren't supposed to be able to learn higher level spells from scrolls.
If you're game is letting you, that is, you guessed it, a bug or accident to be patched. And in the meantime, it would be an exploit you're wrong to use.

I don't think it's a bug. I think it's intended. I recall this being a point of discussion right before full release, with folks suspecting something like this would be the case after reading an article about Larian not wanting people multiclassing to have to wait to get spells like fireball.

Someone mentioned a sorcerer subclass (which isn't in BG3) as having full access to spell lists as an example of why they didn't think it would be unbalanced. And there were comments about being dependent on more than one attribute, of course.

Anyway, this has been the case since the game came out. I thought everyone was already aware. Again, it was even discussed before full release.

This is what was said:

"When multiclassing, the levels of your classes and subclasses that normally have access to spell slots are added together in a weighted formula, and then the overall spellcasting level is used to determine how many and which levels of spell slots you will receive."

It doesn't describe anything close to what we are discussing here. Granted I don't know what that weighted formula is but the idea that you can take a single level of Wizard and learn whatever spells you want and cast them with sorcerer spell slots is frankly laughable. It's pure nonsense.

This is an exploit. The people using it are exploiting the game. This is clearly a bug, in fact it's 3 different bugs/exploits all together.

There is no way in hell that anyone could or would have intended this. This is the worst exploit I have ever seen in this game in 3 years. Anyone using it is basically playing on Story mode.

Larian has to change this. This is completly stupid and a huge downsite of this game!

I'm not weighing in on whether or not it's a good mechanic. I'm just saying that I don't think it's a bug, and that folks predicted this would be the case in threads shortly before full release. It was a big conversation topic.

As to story mode and such, I have no skin in that argument. It doesn't matter to me what mode folks play in or how they build their characters or what they do with barrels. I'm just a simple fella. To me, the rules in the game are the rules in the game. If they change, okay, if not, okay.

I don't see it as breaking anything, but in fairness, I don't care too much for the purity of 5e. I've seen too many edition changes in my lifetime to think any of them are more than a house of cards waiting to fall.

For what it's worth, I think the game is too easy with or without exploits, but that's probably because I spent about 2k hours in early access.

I don't think its a bug either, it seems intended.

Anyway for my second playthrough I'll be installing a whole load of mods including 20 levels and changed XP tiers, so meh I'll do 12 sorc / 2 wizard / 2 Warlock and whatever else it allows cos why not.

Good for you, if you want to make the game easier and that's what you need to do to enjoy yourself I couldn't care less.

I am a multiplayer focused GM for a multiplayer guild so I have to think in terms of fairness for everyone in the session. You don't have that responsibility. Do what you want, nobody cares.

As demonstrated though this is a massive exploit and one that needs to be fixed ASAP. It totally violates core rules of 5E.

Nobody cares about you being a GM. DumbleDorf is talking about his second play so how hard will that be anyway when one knows what to expect and what to do and to not do? How do you know the mods DumbleDorf will use wont make the game more difficult?
I am using mods on my first and probably only playthrough.

Lol 'I am a GM for a single player game with no guilds but optional multiplayer' ... Imagine thinking that somehow matters.

5E is shit and I don't care about it or its pnp rules. Having said that there are 20 levels in pnp, so what does it matter if I try out the 20 levels mod (additional 8 levels only work for multiclassing).

Technically a 12 Sorc / 2 Wizard with sculpt spells would be possible in pnp too.

Let me tell you all about how you can play BG2 with 40 levels each in fighter, mage and thief on a triple class, who really cares when its someone's 100th playthrough?

Would love a mod that makes BG3 into D&D 3.5rd edition or even 2nd.

I prefer 3.5 over 5e, but I think we've been outvoted by a pretty large margin.

You should adopt a dog and then explain it to the dog. Lot's of dogs need good homes.

Wizards being a great dip is a bit of a red herring to a discussion - the larger issue to me is how much Sorcerers got buffed and Wizards... not. Together with flexibility always less important in a CRPG than in tabletop, I think Sorcerer will always be better by a considerable margin.

I still loved the original BG 1 + BG 2 without Sorcerers and where you didn't get any spell picks at level up. All spells had to be learned from scrolls, and it was a great way to make treasure exciting for casters.

Also agreed that the game does not need to be balanced around multiplayer guilds. It's clearly intended to be either played single-player or with friends. It's not an MmoRPG or something like that. If you want to play like that go ahead, but I think Larian could spent their working hours better than to balance for it.

So if it's not played the way you find acceptable then it's not worth addressing issues. Some gatekeeping there but I don't expect that people I provide the courtesy of acknowledging the validity of their playstyles to reciprocate - that would be a bridge too far in the realm of expectations.

As I said, people are welcome to wallow in their own torpescense in single player games, I don't care. The experience me and my players seek is one where we face solid challenges and have to learn to be tactically adroit, have a deep understanding of our kits and capabilities as well as the resources at our disposal. We shun exploits and avoid mods unless a compelling balance case can be made (we have yet to see a true 5e mod, but fingers crossed).

In other words we seek to be challenged and be improved by the experience - which we would argue is the essence of gaming itself - but admittedly that is an opinion and certainly a minority one shared by a select few here (and almost all Dark Souls players.)

From our perspective, people who take the path of exploits are just cheating themselves, and end up being worse players for it. Again, an opinion.

Anyway, I have reached out for confirmation from Larian so hopefully we can get some closure. I have no doubt that once they fix this exploit there will be plenty of mods that open up paths for making the game easier in fun and interesting ways that you can enjoy.

Games need a focus, otherwise developers are spread too thin, that is just the way it is. It's not as if I defending this exploit.

So you are stopping your players from using Haste and/or Quicken Spell to cast 2 levelled spells in a turn too? Because I consider this to be a larger balance upset compared to PnP.

Yes. It's seen as not 5e compatible. I cast haste on the Tank/Warrior personally, then cast Evocation spells starting on my next turn while keeping myself protected from the enemy. Also we don't do barrelmancy.

I don't see how you can see that as a bigger exploit than the one I mentioned but you are entitled to your opinion. A Sorcerer with every spell in the game that they can apply metamagic to is 100% broken. They can then get haste from a wizard scroll and twin it with metamagic, all with 1 level in Wizard.

Sure, but there aren't that many useful spells in BG 3. A level 12 Sorcerer could just get it from the Sorcerer spell list and have more metamagic points. Not saying the flexibility isn't useful - it is for sure, but the overlap between Wizard and Sorcerers spell is so huge. You probably want to also get something like Sculpt Spells out of it, for it to be really useful.

Wizard 1/Cleric 11 is more of an issue.

Oh don't even tell me that a Wiz 1/ Cleric 11 can learn Wizard spells up to the cleric level of spell slots they have...*facepalm* - I agree, that is actually MUCH worse.*

Yeah, that's "working as intended" - sheesh.

It's honestly beyond indefensible at this point and anyone doing so is arguing in severely bad faith/trolling.

*Although just want to point out there ARE wizard spells in game that are NOT on the sorcerer spell list - which is correct according to 5e. Like Create Undead, Flesh to Stone, Otiluke Freezing Orb, Otto's Irresistible Dance, Wall of Ice, Planar Binding, Conjure Elemental and many more. So this exploit gets you access to those.

Agree. Learning spells whild level up is indeed completly stupid as well as paying for learning new spells. If you are in the middle of nowhere and you wanna learn a spell you have to spend money. Who will get the money? This is just a further DnD BS.

Playing Solasta at the moment which also uses DnD 5e but proper (although the game has other problems). And let me tell you it is much better implemented. Quicken spell is only possible for a cantrip and Spell or two cantrips for example. So sorceres are not that OP. The encounters in Solasta are fun too althoug we do not have octopus powers and some OP classes.

From a very noobiish perspective without diving into 5E, nor trying to mix max the heck out of it, I tend to not have that much caster in my party.
I really fail to see the alternative to melee warrior, I think the main issue (at least from a very naive perspective) is the equipement.
Basically you tend to find weapons with +1/+2/etc to rolls where at that point in the game I got two helmets that actually buff the DC for a spellcaster.
So basically, my combats in short are : my warrior having two strikes at 80%+ chance to hit, and my caster having one strike at 50/60%. So yeah, I have versatility with the caster, but nothing that justify that much difference imo (and it's not even with accounting for the limited spellcasting due to the slots system, where I could bash for hours on end with a melee warrior)

Thats my original point - in this game at least a 12 level sorc is still far better than a 12 level Wizard.

And if you do want to play a wizard, a 1-2 wiz / 10-11 sorc is superior in all regards.

So this crazy build I just found and tried on the Wizard hireling, you stay INT based but only take 2 levels Wizard for sculpt spells, then either 8-10 level sorc with storm sorcery and optionally 2 levels cleric tempest domain for max damage to a lightning spell.

You use your offensive spells from memorized scrolls to use the INT stat, and fill the sorcerer slots with buffs.

But the flaw I found is you have 2-4 less sorcery points, you are giving up an extra quicken or twinned chain lightning for 1-2 max damage rolls with some amulet that adds a divinity charge, but that amulet is very close to the end of the game so meh.

In earlier DnD games there were usually features where your total caster level is based on levels in that class, so if you tried such multiclasses your spells would be a lot weaker. In BG3 doesnt matter what combination of caster classes you take, you get the same number of spell slots and only need 1-2 wizard level to memorize all the spells.

But even if you nerf the multiclass options, still doesnt change the fact that 12 sorc >>>> 12 wizard.

Hi folks, as there was another Wizard feedback thread starting up, I've directed that discussion here and suggest we make this the main Wizard class implementation discussion & feedback thread. I've renamed it accordingly (it was "No other way to look at it - Wizards are just 100% trash in BG3"), and stickied it in the Build Discussion forum where there are already a couple of other class feedback threads.

The lv10 Wizard passive is incredibly powerful as well. With its bonus my Ancient Strategem spell learned from the Ramazith tower scroll is doing upwards of 140+ damage with the clown gloves and that spell recharges on a short rest. Your lv10 cantrips with the wizard passive hit for 24-30+ damage. It also gives you a bonus on landing the secondary effects of the aoe spell.

What is Ancient Stratagem? I googled “BG3 ‘Ancient Stratadem’” and that returns no results.

It's the scroll from the book The Red Knight's Final Stratagem, I may be misremembering the spell name. It's basically a magic missiles on mega steroids. One cast per short rest if a Wizard learns the scroll. Works just like magic missiles, a flurry of guaranteed strikes, you can select a target for each missile, except the missiles are way stronger than magic missiles. Your caster modifier for the wizard lv10 passive bonus also gets baked in, so Wizards do a metric ton of damage with it.

Artistry of War

Thanks!

Yea but 95% hold monster on Raphael and Spectators with heighten lulz.


And then I noticed something funky going on with the restoration pools and sorcery points:


The evocation cantrip bonus at level 10 you mean? Theres an amulet that does the same thing.

I think the fact that the Wizard gets unique/exclusive spells that no one else has access to (yes they can use the scroll but then they are gone forever as opposed to scribing them in a spellbook) just denotes how special they are compared to Sorcerers.
Also is there any point playing a Custom Wizard when Gale's story so heavily plays into the fantasy of being a Wizard.

The problem being most if not all of those extra spells are trash.

I've not needed to purchase or cast any spells from scrolls while playing a Sorcerer and not using a Wizard except for story stuff on Gale.

Only 1 spell I've found myself wishing I had used was resilient spere - on just 2 or 3 NPCs that need saving and die a bit quick from mobs, though then I think either sanctuary or feign death would also work for that.

And actually looking at the spell description, I dont think the sphere blocks damage, just looks like hold spells without the auto crits meh/