I've been working on compiling cut content datamined from various sources and while I had a ton of this information in my other thread I decided to forego the "review" or the complaints and simply list off the cut content that has been confirmed thus far.
1) The Upper City - The most obvious one. Swen himself talked about the "Affluent Upper City" just 2 weeks before launch and described as it being fully explorable and yet it's very noticeably absent from the final game.
2) Shar Worship - In EA the player was able to select Shar as a diety which game with it's own unique dialogue trees, especially when interacting with Shadowheart as a fellow Shar worshiper. Despite the fact that voice lines were datamined indicating this had functions well into Act 2, it was cut when the game launched.
3) Karlach's Ending - Datamined content shows that not only did Karlach have a full ending where her infernal engine was fixed and that she survived, but that most of it was fully voiced and complete. However it required triggers from the Upper City portion of Baldur's Gate and when that was cut, so was Karlach's Act 3 storyline. What we have behind have been confirmed to be Karlach's "fail state" endings which were meant to only play if the player neglected her quest chain.
4) Minthara's Story - Minthara was meant to have a much deeper story, including a pregnancy. These were likely cut due to Minthara being a late stage addition to our roster but dialogue lines remain in the games files that show that not only did Minthara have a lot more content for herself but your other companions had a lot more to say about it.
5) Halsin's Story - Another late addition to the roster, Halsin was originally intended to have a great deal more endgame content involving the Druid circle, but this appears to have been cut more early on than some of the other items thus far.
6) Raphael the Merchant - Originally Raphael was meant to be a fully viable option to remove your tadpole, in fact the "Soul Coin" items that you collect in game where originally meant to be a powerful alternative currency accepted only by Raphael in exchange for possibly retrieving your soul as well as a long list of incredibly powerful artifacts from the House of Hope that would be sold by Raphael himself.
7) Avernus - An entire area of the game. Avernus was meant to be fully explorable and of similar size to the Underdark Area of Act 1. It would be a source not only for Soul Coins but other rare materials, highly difficult fights, and special content for Karlach.
8) Tav the Dark Urge - A lot of people were both surprised and excited to see the addition of The Dark Urge origin as the Bhaalspawn/Evil option that was missing from EA. As it turns out, Tav was originally the Dark Urge and they were all one origin. Tav was meant to be Bhaalspawn and separating the two seems to be what caused the narrative divide between the Dead Three storyline and the Mindflayer plot.
9) Omeluum's Ring - In the EA version of the game this ring would block your Tadpole entirely. It could not grow, it could not grow stronger, and you could not use Illithid powers. In the launch version this ring prevents you from being charmed despite Omeluum still stating that it blocked the influence of the Elder Brain/Absolute.
10) Bhaal and Orin versus the Creche - An entire Act 2 battle was cut in which Bhaal's forces, led by Orin, attacked the Githyanki creche which led to a fight where you either sided with one or the other or had a massive 3-way fight on your hands.
11) Orin and the Dragon - Orin was meant to corrupt a Githyank red dragon, leading to a boss fight against a Slayer-formesque Dragon.
12) The Hag Coven in Act 2 and 3 - You may notice that accepting Auntie Ethels help in the first Act can lead to a negative effect when fighting Hags. You may also notice that despite Auntie Ethel having letters from other Hags in her basement, she is the only one you encounter. Originally there was meant to be a full three act story involving the Hag coven including the mysterious "M" who seems to have been their leader.
13) Epilogues - Full epilogue cutscenes have been datamined that varied greatly depending on your choices. These were the "17K ending variations" that Larian told us about, yet they are completely absent in the final game leading only to a fade to black scene at the end of the game.
14) Cazador's Story - Originally Cazador was meant to play a huge role in the Upper City of Baldur's Gate, including being a huge political power. Datamined content also shows that originally he was meant to be a potential ally in the final push against the Absolute.
15) Banite Cultists - The game features both Bhaal and Myrkul cultists rather heavily but Bane is reduced to Gortash alone. Despite the fact that they had full and finished assets for both armor, weapons, and some events the Banites were cut from the final game.
16) Act 1 Minsc - Minsc was meant to be recruited at the end of Act 1 but was cut and pushed back into the later game.
17) Dialogue and Events - Even from Act 1 itself, thousands of lines of dialogue and companion events were cut from the final game. Some of them were even fully voiced and ready to be implemented in game but also referenced other content that ended up on the cutting room floor.
18) Bhaal, Myrkul and Bane as Deities - Cleric's were meant to be fully able to select the Dead Three from the list of Deities. There were even special dialogues in game for player's who played as a Paladin and then multiclassed at least 1 level of Cleric on top and selected one of the Dead Three.
19) Daisy - It's not a secret that Daisy was cut from the game after the last EA release and replaced with "The Guardian." Originally Daisy was representative of the tadpole in your head, not the Emperor, and would attempt to seduce your character into staying in the meadow by the river with her forever. A happy life with an imaginary dream lover while your body underwent ceramorphosis and was lost to you forever. Daisy was such an important part of the plot that both of the games theme songs "Down by The River" and "The Power" are based entirely upon Daisy. Datamined content also shows there was originally an ending where players would embrace a romance with Daisy and give themselves over to the parasite, forever leaving their individual consciousness "down by the river" with Daisy.
20) Companions and the Illithid Worm - Originally companions were meant to accept or refuse Illithid gifts independently of the player choices. You could of course influence them through dialogue to decide who did and did not take the offered gifts, but ultimately it would be based on individual characters choices. This can still be seen in game as a bug when companions will awake after a long rest and claim to have received a gift from their Guardian and yet will have gained no actual power.
21) Romancing Jaheira - Apparently you were originally meant to have limited options to romance and sleep with Jaheira but these were cut last minute. It's unclear why.
22) Tadpole's and Consequences - There were originally meant to be severe consequences from using the Illithid powers too heavily and investing too much into the Tadpole powers. This seems obvious in game and yet ultimately in the release version goes nowhere as the ending is reduced to about 4 choices made in the last leg of the game. You can use all tadpoles or none and receive the same ending.
23) Act 3 Companion Dialogue - If you've noticed that companions have much less to say at the end of their journey it's because thousands of lines of dialogue were cut from companions in the final Act and all for various reasons. This also seems to be the source of most of the companion bugs that only appear in the final act as they're still trying to trigger events that simply no longer exist.
24) Multiple Cutscenes - There are multiple cutscenes that were present for Act 1 that are missing from the final game.
25) The Nautolid - A large portion of the Nautolid tutorial zone was cut in the final release, including cutscenes, dialogue, areas, and an optional fight with 2 injured Imps. This was likely cut for the sake of brevity more than anything.
26) Mol and Raphael - Isn't it odd how Mol will just escape from Raphael on her own and say it was "easy?" Well it turns out that's because they cut whatever the final leg of that quest was meant to be, instead they allow Mol to escape on her own which more or less skips to the end and around the cut content.
27) The Raven Queen - There was an entire second part of the storyline that was cut early on.
28) The Voice of Bane - It's possible to have a brief conversation with Bane, but it remains incomplete as the dialogue is unvoiced for some reason.
29) The Wither's Epilogue - WIther's was meant to narrate an epilogue for the players, to what extent is unsure but instead WIther's is left with a single event in the entire game when post-credit's he can be seen revealing himself as Jergal and mocking a mural of the Dead Three.
30) Crafting - An early access build contained a crafting bench and it seems originally we were meant to have full access to crafting/enchanting gear of our own through certain systems. While these were cut, the items for them were not. This is why items like ingots, gemstones, woods, and other material items appear in game with no use other than vendor trash.
31) Helia - The Halfling Werewolf that I sadly forgot was cut from the game.
32) Belts - There is an item slot in game for belts, not a single belt is present in the game as an item.
Now, I appreciate that some of it isn't necessarily relevant anymore - I thought Wyll was more interesting in EA as his darker side made him less flat, but that's my opinion. However the feedback is obvious. I'd have happily waited 6 months more to get this in the game.
I'm just hoping that a definitive edition is pulled here with a massive overhaul of Act 3 and most of these issues addressed. Act 3 is an absolute mess, with no sense of direction and massive performance issues.
This is a lot of stuff that does sound cool, but I think it's for the best some of this was cut.
5. I think given he was a late addition, cutting the extra druid Grove stuff involving him was smart. After all, how would druids even know to get here in time since they're back in their Grove? Having deep druid Grove stuff in act 3 would have probably felt muddled and tacked on anyway.
6.Considering you can pretty easily find like, 3 soul coins alone in act 1, using soul coins to get out of the tadpole might have felt too easy. Plus I personally feel like making him a merchant would diminish him.
7. The game already has enough going on in it that a whole extra plane to explore would have easily felt like too much and a big tangent.
8. I think the Tav Urge thing could have been good, but I feel like without the sort of framing/prep of being told that the dark urge was a thing by choosing them as an origin, it would have felt off. Especially since unlike the original game, we are given absolutely zero context for Tav's prior life. So I don't think the urge stuff would have really felt right most of the time. Plus we hardly saw any of that I EA so it likely wasn't kept around for long.
19. I personally never felt like Daisy worked. And she certainly wouldn't have worked as a dream companion most characters would choose to leave the world behind for. She never felt trustworthy or intimate or like she actually cared about us, not at all like a potential long term partner. Her manipulations felt so overt and transparent. I prefer the guardian and think ultimately the Daisy change was a mercenary evil as she wouldn't have worked for what they wanted.
26. I think there shouldn't have been a Mol and Raphael plot line at all and this is exactly the sort of thing that should be cut for time. Raphael talking about claiming Mol's soul is the type of thing that should exist as a single interaction to give him a bit of menace and flavor but doesn't need to be developed beyond that.
27. There are too many gods as it is in this story. It clear didn't need the Raven Queen making things even more complex for no real reason.
Sometimes cut content gets cut for a good reason and the final result is better for it.
While some that might well have been cut quite late (eg things recently suggested that would be in by Sven or other devs), I wouldnt treat datamining as a particularly reliable source for what was intended to be in the final game.
BG3 was in development for long time, and its likely they played around with a lot of different ideas. Uncovering scraps of unused files can give an indication of things that someone did some work on at some point, but as far as Im aware doesnt tell you how well fleshed out or how well integrated into the game it ever was. Some of this could well be stuff that was never developed to any real extent.
That said, if any of it was close to being ready to go, Id be more than happy if Larian decide to reinstate it for a definitive edition or whatever.
As for point 26:
26) Mol and Raphael - Isn't it odd how Mol will just escape from Raphael on her own and say it was "easy?" Well it turns out that's because they cut whatever the final leg of that quest was meant to be, instead they allow Mol to escape on her own which more or less skips to the end and around the cut content.
No, its not odd at all. Its obvious Mol took the deal, not just because she escaped, but because shes exactly where she wanted to be, in the guild.
Furthermore, you can find her contract in the House of Hope and later talk to her about it, give it to her and/or tell her you dispatched Raphael.
You can go check out the datamining thread on this very forum to see that it was a little more than "scraps of unused files."
People have certainly datamined audio files, assets, characters, etc. and thats probably enough for some of the things on that list. At least to show that some were at least considered at some point before being dropped for whatever reason.
But then I see claims like this, and would frankly want to know exactly what was found before spreading it around the internet:
7) Avernus - An entire area of the game. Avernus was meant to be fully explorable and of similar size to the Underdark Area of Act 1. It would be a source not only for Soul Coins but other rare materials, highly difficult fights, and special content for Karlach.
Did someone datamine an entire working game region, complete with map, quests, characters, encounters, etc that was cut at the last minute? Or did they find a few bits and pieces that were never properly developed? Because theres a massive difference.
Yeah, I have to agree, Act 3 is clearly incomplete. It's missing a lot of content and choices.
If you don't kill the Hag, the entire Hag storyline doesn't exist in Act 3. You don't meet her, and you can't find her. I was hoping to recruit her an an Ally against the Dead Three/Elder Brain but there is nothing.
So I guess what I have to decide is to continue playing or wait until they finish Act 3 in 3-6 months. Look, we all know we will probably end up getting all this content down the road. There will be a "definitive edition" of the game but that may be a full year away.
Although that will probably invalidate prior saves. Oof.
Multiplayer also needs some work.
On the positive side there is a lot of amazing content, and I get what they were going for and I have really enjoyed the narrative so far.
Game is amazing there is no doubt about that, but I agree with you OP.
Just to add few more: 1) Fish folk you meet in the Underdark where if you killed the redcap could tell them to start worshiping you and/or build you an army. They are nowhere to be found after that in any of Act 2/3. 2) Many notes and letters which should lead to quests in Lower City are not working and are just for reading. Apparently they were cut from the game.
If you wish you can add these to your list.
As for the rest I fully agree with you. In some of the cases datamining is not even needed to clearly see that content has been cut out.
sequence was originally planned to be much larger. There are a lot of plot points and a major character introduced in the sequence, and it feels as if it could have been its own sub-area with its own plot, rather than a single fight and single decision.
Remember the human (This is a forum for a video game):
I mean, just look at the hags. The EA build was CLEARLY teasing about more hags living in the city and having some sort of secret society there (and if I rememer right their letters exchanged with Auntie are still there in the game currently). What we got on the other hand was Auntie Ethel going "Surprise, motherfuckers. It's me again".
Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. SAY NO TO THE TOILET CHAIN
I mean, just look at the hags. The EA build was CLEARLY teasing about more hags living in the city and having some sort of secret society there (and if I rememer right their letters exchanged with Auntie are still there in the game currently). What we got on the other hand was Auntie Ethel going "Surprise, motherfuckers. It's me again".
"This weekend, we unveiled the city of Baldur's Gate for the very first time, with a glimpse behind its walls and around its familiar labyrinthine streets. It's been about 20 years since we last had a pint in the Elfsong Tavern or crawled through the sewers beneath the city streets and, as you might have spotted during the PC Gaming Show, many of these locations are back, and many news ones are waiting to be discovered for the first time - giving you a chance to explore the menacing roads of the Outer City, the opulent estates of the Upper City, and the dark alleys and pubs of the Lower City."
and...
"What's come out of that decision is something were very proud of. The districts of Baldur's Gate are now three seamless open worlds."
No offence, but I think we should clearly have a DLC.
Game is amazing there is no doubt about that, but I agree with you OP.
Just to add few more: 1) Fish folk you meet in the Underdark where if you killed the redcap could tell them to start worshiping you and/or build you an army. They are nowhere to be found after that.
Actually, I found that mini-zone yesterday and killed them all for the XP.
There is a hidden craigy climb cliff in a little jump area near the wizards tower in the Underdark.
Game is amazing there is no doubt about that, but I agree with you OP.
Just to add few more: 1) Fish folk you meet in the Underdark where if you killed the redcap could tell them to start worshiping you and/or build you an army. They are nowhere to be found after that in any of Act 2/3. 2) Many notes and letters which should lead to quests in Lower City are not working and are just for reading. Apparently they were cut from the game.
If you wish you can add these to your list.
.
There are Fish folk - Kuo-Toa in Act 2. They are near the Mausoleum on the cliff-side. No idea if they can be friendly.
Well, yes, sad to see the game was frontloaded. Act 1 is the best thing that I ever saw, act 2 was really good (among the best I have ever seen), act 3 is... meh.
The list of cut content explains it very well in my most honest opinion. If all (except for the longer tutorial zone, that was a REALLY good idea) was in, it would have been perfect.
Also I want to say here that I would have preferred the dream lover over the guardian. The fan service involved in the storyline was... nice... but we all know what "nice" is the little sibling of, hm.
Makes me sad, really. Currently, and I must really say this, act 3 feels like an afterthought, a joke, where I can play with higher level character skills, but feel no real connection to the game or to the story, because not only corners were cut, but the entire game falls apart.
1) The list has a lot of things that sound like extrapolation or speculation to me, like the parts about Daisy. Even with the Early Access scenes, I don't think anyone has actually proven what was the actual secret behind this character and how it would have tied to an ending, so I don't like that the person who compiled this list is combining evidence with their own imagination and theories.
2) That said, there are indeed several parts of the game with actual datamined evidence of something big being removed, such as the epilogue narration, that one can hope will be restored to the game sooner or later.
3) Still, not everything that was removed is ostensibly and formally "cut content" since some of those are likely due to changes in direction. There may also be bits and pieces of dialogue or text that never got past a small test or preliminary approval, so we wouldn't get that even in a restoration.
I also wonder if the reason why the Upper City is not really included was due to the performance issues affecting Act 3? Either that or it was too unfinished to be worth releasing, therefore they folded its most important content into the Lower City.
More than anything, I hope the epilogues are added back in through patches.
Upper city could be DLC IMHO.
A lot of the cut contentshould be added back in with patches, the nautiloid especially.
Other Cut Content that should be restored (not on the list)
* The Astarion dialogue with "the barn" situationm, the situation with the ogre and the bugbear * Sylvanus and Shar as dieties, I can understand cutting shar but... Sylvanus... REALLY?!
With the amount of money this game is pulling in, along with elevation of the Larian brand and the recognition of the game itself, I hope the developers are considering expanding the game somewhat as a kind of victory lap and show of ongoing support to their product. What I would like to see, in order:
-Cutting Room Floor Restoration -New Additions in the vein of ongoing Larian support for prior games up to a "Definitive Edition," incorporating things they think are fun, and some player feedback -A single major paid expansion
Remember the human (This is a forum for a video game):
100% Tumblr is full of dataminers putting up cut content and they fix most of the problems with the game. This work is already done, paid for and voice acted, it just needs to be implemented in a patch.
Minthara is the best character and she NEEDS to be recruitable if you side with the grove! Also- I support the important thread in the suggestions: Let everyone in the Party Speak
That is, if it's still in the files. From what I've seen, a lot of it has been deleted (the Guardian, for example, appears to have just replaced all the Daisy files with the new versions.) Some of it could maybe be fan implemented, but I'm not sure the state it is in (the epilogues, etc.)
Originally Posted by urktheturtle
another piece of cut content from act 1...
The dwarf member of the group fo "demon hunters" from the toll collector station, near karlach... who would stand on the road.
He is gone... for, near as I can tell... literally no reason.
Its production quality just thrown away for no reason.
Not to mention the fisherman trying to dig the mind flayer out of the rubble.
The small cuts like this are the ones that confuse me most of all. Okay, if the Upper City wasn't working and couldn't be finished in time, sure. Okay, fine, they replaced Daisy and gutted their story for whatever reason. But when they just went back and plucked out little bits and bobs from stuff that was functioning perfectly well in Early Access?
Astarions dialogue with the bugbear/ogre barn is gone
Some of the interpersonal relationships between companions that involve romance are gone (very noticable with lae'zel)this change appears to have been made extremely last minute, and was even edited out of a community update, there is no good reason to have removed this.
Volo leaves your camp entirely after the incident (I dont get this, especially since he originally had content at the tiefling party, that is now lost. and its making me sad)
If Volo was in your camp until act 3, then you might care about him in instead of it being, oh him again
Minthara is the best character and she NEEDS to be recruitable if you side with the grove! Also- I support the important thread in the suggestions: Let everyone in the Party Speak
The dwarf member of the group fo "demon hunters" from the toll collector station, near karlach... who would stand on the road.
He is gone... for, near as I can tell... literally no reason.
Its production quality just thrown away for no reason.
Not to mention the fisherman trying to dig the mind flayer out of the rubble.
Fisherman were already gone from late EA patches. As to why - I dont know.
The encounter with paladins was redesigned - even with fewer members I found it more challenging than in EA. Maybe they just figure out they have 1 NPCs too many.
Not all changes to existing content are to be cut content - devs decided to remove due to inability to finish it.
Some changes are likely respond to community feedback Daisy => Guardian definitely felt better to me, though I question if there is any point to creating the guardian. It feels more like a leftover from the previous concept more than anything.
I wonder if hacking off pieces of act3 is the last minute crisis that Sven mentioned in the FPS podcast.
As a software engineer myself I think it is possible that there was something really nasty going on at some "critical point" in Upper City that the whole part had to be put aside for the time being. If the access to Avernus happens in Upper City, too, then this may be a reason.
I can also imagine that the missing epilogue has something to do with this as well, maybe it simply made no sense having the epilogue in there while Upper City is not part of the game.
Notice how I say "put aside for the time being" and "while".
I wouldn't rule out that patch 1 and / or 2 bring back the meaningful parts of the content that is currently missing.
I wonder if hacking off pieces of act3 is the last minute crisis that Sven mentioned in the FPS podcast.
As a software engineer myself I think it is possible that there was something really nasty going on at some "critical point" in Upper City that the whole part had to be put aside for the time being. If the access to Avernus happens in Upper City, too, then this may be a reason.
I can also imagine that the missing epilogue has something to do with this as well, maybe it simply made no sense having the epilogue in there while Upper City is not part of the game.
Notice how I say "put aside for the time being" and "while".
I wouldn't rule out that patch 1 and / or 2 bring back the meaningful parts of the content that is currently missing.
Not sure how to feel about this. On the one hand I desperately want Act 3 to be polished and I am all for more content, but if they add in cut content with patches, it means that they knowingly sold an incomplete game...
I wonder if hacking off pieces of act3 is the last minute crisis that Sven mentioned in the FPS podcast.
As a software engineer myself I think it is possible that there was something really nasty going on at some "critical point" in Upper City that the whole part had to be put aside for the time being. If the access to Avernus happens in Upper City, too, then this may be a reason.
I can also imagine that the missing epilogue has something to do with this as well, maybe it simply made no sense having the epilogue in there while Upper City is not part of the game.
Notice how I say "put aside for the time being" and "while".
I wouldn't rule out that patch 1 and / or 2 bring back the meaningful parts of the content that is currently missing.
Not sure how to feel about this. On the one hand I desperately want Act 3 to be polished and I am all for more content, but if they add in cut content with patches, it means that they knowingly sold an incomplete game...
Well, they did this in D:OS2, but they made good on it by releasing the Definitive Edition with significant re-works to the final act, a proper epilogue, etc. as free to existing purchasers. So if "past behavior is the best indicator of future behavior" then they've already done this before and that this is nothing new for how they choose to develop their games, and they are likely going to make good on it again, either through patches or a DE that would be free to existing purchasers.
I wonder if hacking off pieces of act3 is the last minute crisis that Sven mentioned in the FPS podcast.
As a software engineer myself I think it is possible that there was something really nasty going on at some "critical point" in Upper City that the whole part had to be put aside for the time being. If the access to Avernus happens in Upper City, too, then this may be a reason.
I can also imagine that the missing epilogue has something to do with this as well, maybe it simply made no sense having the epilogue in there while Upper City is not part of the game.
Notice how I say "put aside for the time being" and "while".
I wouldn't rule out that patch 1 and / or 2 bring back the meaningful parts of the content that is currently missing.
Not sure how to feel about this. On the one hand I desperately want Act 3 to be polished and I am all for more content, but if they add in cut content with patches, it means that they knowingly sold an incomplete game...
While I agree with you, I would totaly forgive it, if the cut content comes for free later. They did similar things with Divinity-Original Sin 2.
I cant say anything for certain, but Larian doesnt seem like the type of studio that cuts content to sell you as DLC later.
I wonder if hacking off pieces of act3 is the last minute crisis that Sven mentioned in the FPS podcast.
As a software engineer myself I think it is possible that there was something really nasty going on at some "critical point" in Upper City that the whole part had to be put aside for the time being. If the access to Avernus happens in Upper City, too, then this may be a reason.
I can also imagine that the missing epilogue has something to do with this as well, maybe it simply made no sense having the epilogue in there while Upper City is not part of the game.
Notice how I say "put aside for the time being" and "while".
I wouldn't rule out that patch 1 and / or 2 bring back the meaningful parts of the content that is currently missing.
That would be my guess. I haven't seen act3 for myself yet, but upper city, and variations in the epilogue/ending slides are things I am pretty confident Sven mentioned himself.
I don't think such major addition will happen soon though. I suspect that if it will happen, it will be in a form of their usual "Enhanced Edition" a year or so from now.
Originally Posted by SiriusVI
Not sure how to feel about this. On the one hand I desperately want Act 3 to be polished and I am all for more content, but if they add in cut content with patches, it means that they knowingly sold an incomplete game...
I think every game is technically incomplete, as things always get cut, sometimes to the benefit, sometimes to the detriment of a game. The only difference here is transparency, and I really don't think one can condemn Larian for being transparent. In fact, common complaint has been that they weren't transparent enough - that's the reason why. You mentioned you work on something for the game, and you don't deliver, audience will be understandably disappointed.
Larian doesn't have a habit of charging for their patched, so if something forced them to remove planned content for 1.0, it is commendible if they are willing to spend resource to finish those. Other than wanting to deliver the best game possible, they have no incentive to do so.
Is there a way for people to 'mod in' some of the datamined content?
Possibly, some games like Dragon Age Origins had scenes and dialogues with characters like Morrigan cut but modders were able to restore it but it might only be limited to voice lines there isn't much hope for upper city/avernus and ethel's coven unless Larian themselves add it back into the game and hopefully they will do.
Did you miss where I linked on the original reddit post that comes chronologically before that?
Both of these still appear to lack sources for most of those claims though. Some of it certainly appears to be correct, but some of it could really use some evidence for what was meant to be in the game.
My only issue with the cut content is they promoted it and then said nothing about removing it, that's shady. If they had been more forthcoming about the change considering they told us it was in the game just weeks or months prior then I don't think anyone would have the right to be upset. They very well may have delayed the release too if it wasn't for Starfield.
My only issue with the cut content is they promoted it and then said nothing about removing it, that's shady. If they had been more forthcoming about the change considering they told us it was in the game just weeks or months prior then I don't think anyone would have the right to be upset. They very well may have delayed the release too if it wasn't for Starfield.
I've never understood the fixation with that game, it's a Bethesda game there's literally memes about bugs and bethesda lol, that game will launch with more bugs than act 3 could only concieve in it's dreams despite what Microsoft says. I would of just delayed BG3's release for another 2-3 months and had the cut stuff that makes sense like Ethel's coven, Avernus, Upper City and the companion dialogues and epilogues put in.
So we are excusing this just because is Larian? Interesting... Specially with all those Outrage Videos about Blizzard, EA, etc... and how this was the Second Coming of Christ of Releases in the Videogaming Industry while Larian just swept this under the Rug. Of course anyone would want the Game to be finished but i don't know how to feel about them now...
So we are excusing this just because is Larian? Interesting... Specially with all those Outrage Videos about Blizzard, EA, etc... and how this was the Second Coming of Christ of Releases in the Videogaming Industry while Larian just swept this under the Rug. Of course anyone would want the Game to be finished but i don't know how to feel about them now...
I'm 100% with you on this, i called people out for the same thing in another thread like this one which got locked due to bickering.
How can people sit there and just think " This is fine " they lied to us, they advertised things that should of been in the game like the playable upper city, it's literally in one of their update blogs and they just removed it without so much as a word, potentionally breaking numerous companions in the process (noticably dooming Karlach to terrible endings), the 17000 variations which was supposed to come via the epilogue isn't a thing as well.
So we are excusing this just because is Larian? Interesting... Specially with all those Outrage Videos about Blizzard, EA, etc... and how this was the Second Coming of Christ of Releases in the Videogaming Industry while Larian just swept this under the Rug. Of course anyone would want the Game to be finished but i don't know how to feel about them now...
I'm 100% with you on this, i called people out for the same thing in another thread like this one which got locked due to bickering.
How can people sit there and just think " This is fine " they lied to us, they advertised things that should of been in the game like the playable upper city, it's literally in one of their update blogs and they just removed it without so much as a word, potentionally breaking numerous companions in the process (noticably dooming Karlach to terrible endings), the 17000 variations which was supposed to come via the epilogue isn't a thing as well.
Well, I don't think that this is fine at all, but it is what it is...descision to cut lots of important stuff is a serious descision, if they decided to do it, then, probably, situation wasn't so trivial as you might think. You also can't say that they could easily delayed release for 3 or even more months, you don't even know how much time they really need to completely finish what they planned nor you don't know their financial status & other issues. I'm not saying it's ok, they promised one thing and delivered another and I'm dissapointed not less then you, but I'm saying that we don't know their problems and they are not idiots, you know, if they decided to cut so much content instead of delaying release, then they probably got a serious reason to do so, yet it's still a great game with a great replayability and I'll gladly play it again and again when they release Definitive Edition which, hopefully, will include at least the most important content they decided to cut.
Folks, you're all free to say what you personally think of the decision to cut content, but others are also free to think what they like and to say that too. Let's not get into an unproductive meta-discussion about whose value judgement of the situation is right.
It would be even better if we stuck to the topic of what content has been cut and what impact we think it is having on the overall quality and coherence of the game, as it feels like we've already covered the ground of why and when decisions were made and what could or should have been communicated as far as is possible given limited data. But some venting of disappointment is understandable and okay, as long as it's not the same people saying the same things over again.
"You may call it 'nonsense' if you like, but I've heard nonsense, compared with which that would be as sensible as a dictionary!"
So we are excusing this just because is Larian? Interesting... Specially with all those Outrage Videos about Blizzard, EA, etc... and how this was the Second Coming of Christ of Releases in the Videogaming Industry while Larian just swept this under the Rug. Of course anyone would want the Game to be finished but i don't know how to feel about them now...
Sure. It's called goodwill. I don't believe Larian has intentionally missrepresented or misadvertised the game. Something went wrong, at some point. Larian has also trackrecord of continued free support for their games. Frankly, the game is in much better state than I anticipated, and as someone who has been playing the game since early EA, that the game still isn't finished, isn't really that much of a dealbreaker for me.
What soured, at least me, on the other companies you mentioned is their business practices. In that regard Larian is as good as it gets - single purchase, reasonably priced game, aimed to be fun, not to nickel and dime players.
I am not as enthusiastic about BG3 as some other individuals, but I am find no fault with the game as a product.
What soured, at least me, on the other companies you mentioned is their business practices. In that regard Larian is as good as it gets - single purchase, reasonably priced game, aimed to be fun, not to nickel and dime players.
I am not as enthusiastic about BG3 as some other individuals, but I am find no fault with the game as a product.
You are correwct, and people are overreacting a bit. BG3's ending is not nearly as bad as Mass Effect 3's ending wan, and it's built on an excellent and very long game.
My disappointment stems from the frustration that BG3 could have been more than game, but a work of art. Something like Breaking Bad. Instead, it's more like Game of Thrones: it has an absolutely stellar beginning, but Laian unfortunately didn't stick the landing:
- there are too many plot holes to ignore, which hurts the narrative coherence of the story. - the two baddies in Act 3 are a bit of a letdown compared to the showdown at the end of act 2. - Act 3 is just too messy overall. - the major decisions in the game don't affect the outcome of the story enough. - the ending is too abrupt and does not wrap up the experience very well.
It's so frustrating, because all the stars were alligned for BG3 to be a masterpiece of a game, a true work of art. Such an opportinity does not come very often, and for now, I feel like it's gone. BG3 is, as you say, a very good "product". As a customer, I got my money's worth and then seome. Compared to other AAA games, I'd even say it's a 10/10 "product". But sadly, it's not more than a product.
The thing that angers me the most about what was cut was the entire dynamic with Daisy and ultimately there being consequences for your actions. Act 1 is solid, but Act 3 feels like a trainwreck, especially with knowledge of what was supposed to take place in it. Especially with how not only is this game easy but there's just no consequences for choices that originally were supposed to be dire, especially for the tadpoles. It feels far too casual of a game wherein you can have half of your brain eaten by illithid worms yet somehow this causes no negative penalty whatsoever in the ending, when the original alternative of potentially getting a game over made far more sense. Instead there's objectively no gameplay reason to turn down any illithid powers since they're just flat buffs to your character without any downside. Cut plotlines hurt but what really stinks is that the offerings of incredible power have no cost to them, trivializing the game on a whole.
The thing that angers me the most about what was cut was the entire dynamic with Daisy and ultimately there being consequences for your actions. Act 1 is solid, but Act 3 feels like a trainwreck, especially with knowledge of what was supposed to take place in it. Especially with how not only is this game easy but there's just no consequences for choices that originally were supposed to be dire, especially for the tadpoles. It feels far too casual of a game wherein you can have half of your brain eaten by illithid worms yet somehow this causes no negative penalty whatsoever in the ending, when the original alternative of potentially getting a game over made far more sense. Instead there's objectively no gameplay reason to turn down any illithid powers since they're just flat buffs to your character without any downside. Cut plotlines hurt but what really stinks is that the offerings of incredible power have no cost to them, trivializing the game on a whole.
I believed from what my Party NPCs said and from the visuals of more worms eating my brain if I consume more tadpoles that FOR SURE I would lose my personality at some point and that that would somehow influence the story.
Wouldn't it be great if, for example, the Emperor would have different dialogue or a different appearance depending on how many tadpoles you eat? Maybe characters who refuse any and all tadpoles and powers, would see through the Emperor's disguise much earlier in the story and the Emperor would be much more hostile towards such characters.
On the other hand, characters who consume more tadpoles fall for the Emperor's disguise, the Emperor's dialogue would be more friendly and Tav would even romance it and find out only later that the Emperor is a Mindflayer with an own agenda.
And characters who consume too many tadpoles don't have a choice but to become a mindflayer by the end of the story. A grim price for gullible characters, but an opportunity for power hungy ones.
CohhCarnage praise the game for being one of the best he's ever played but he did note that act 3 made the game feel unfinished and that the quality dropped significantly compared to act 1.
I'm hoping they'll address the missing content but realistically we shouldn't expect everything to be restored. I'm personally hoping for
Avernus Upper City Ethel's Coven - We were told they were going to come for us yet they never did. Better resolutions for Karlach Minthara actually having content in act 3 and bug fixes for her if she's still bugged. More companion dialogue restored for act 3 Epilogues Consequences for using the tadpole
Let's all hope for restoring the removed content to update act 3 quality dramatically. Missing final parts of companion quests and missing proper endings really hurts.
I don't use Illithid Powers to this Day because of how easy is to trivialize the Class System and D&D Implementation even in Tactician but that is another entirely different issue. A lot of Stuff doesn't feel finished. I'm not that crazy bothered by Shoving and other Gimmicks because i just don't use them but Combat still bugs me a lot in this Game. If i have to Cripple my Char to no End and refrain from Playing Martial Classes to get some challenge out of it then i would say that is not a Good Combat System. Having all those Actions as Martial Class is indeed broken as all Hells when the Enemy dies from 1 Hit Opportunist. But then i look at Concentration and All the Half Assed Spell Implementation and Crippling Spellcasters have ( Specially the CC Spells )...... And yeah the Low Level Cap will always bug me, specially when the Game sells you so much the whole "We are going against the Gods Designs" thing throwing you all manners of Larianized Legendary D&D Beings. Ends up feeling like a Super Elder Brain is just another meaningless 1 Hp Kobold waiting for that Sledgehammer to drop.
CohhCarnage praise the game for being one of the best he's ever played but he did note that act 3 made the game feel unfinished and that the quality dropped significantly compared to act 1.
I'm hoping they'll address the missing content but realistically we shouldn't expect everything to be restored. I'm personally hoping for
Avernus Upper City Ethel's Coven - We were told they were going to come for us yet they never did. Better resolutions for Karlach Minthara actually having content in act 3 and bug fixes for her if she's still bugged. More companion dialogue restored for act 3 Epilogues Consequences for using the tadpole
The Avernus claim is the one Im most sceptical of. Its one thing to dredge up recorded audio files for an epilogue or something, quite another to claim entire regions were just cut from the game. That would mean maps, assets, characters, quest lines, encounters, etc. If someone really has found all that, I want to see evidence of it, not just someone posting their claims on multiple forums. You might well be talking about restoring something that was never really developed in the first place.
Im certainly not going to get my hopes up based on this list that keeps popping up everywhere.
CohhCarnage praise the game for being one of the best he's ever played but he did note that act 3 made the game feel unfinished and that the quality dropped significantly compared to act 1.
I'm hoping they'll address the missing content but realistically we shouldn't expect everything to be restored. I'm personally hoping for
Avernus Upper City Ethel's Coven - We were told they were going to come for us yet they never did. Better resolutions for Karlach Minthara actually having content in act 3 and bug fixes for her if she's still bugged. More companion dialogue restored for act 3 Epilogues Consequences for using the tadpole
The Avernus claim is the one Im most sceptical of. Its one thing to dredge up recorded audio files for an epilogue or something, quite another to claim entire regions were just cut from the game. That would mean maps, assets, characters, quest lines, encounters, etc. If someone really has found all that, I want to see evidence of it, not just someone posting their claims on multiple forums. You might well be talking about restoring something that was never really developed in the first place.
Im certainly not going to get my hopes up based on this list that keeps popping up everywhere.
Did you even read my post or did you just rush in here on your shining steed to try and talk down another person who doesn't think the game is perfect? Please read " I'm personally hoping for "
You want evidence of upper city though? Community update 19 they promoted it as playable, I won't quote the " two weeks before launch " claim some people are making as I can't find a source but it's definetly in community update 19 regarding upper city and if you want to sit there being smug and thinking this game is perfect then all the power to you honestly you're entitled to have that opinion but I on the other hand don't think the game is perfect and like many more who are noticing, act 3 is the problem child, avernus certainly won't help that but the rest most definetly will.
Huhh... So I am really curious as to what happened to act3. I am still pretty early on (didn't even reach lower city), but the thing that popped out to me is that the city is not seemless, as it was advertised during city showcase two months ago:
Or is the outside of Baldur's Gate area, seperate from city itself?
[ Did you even read my post or did you just rush in here on your shining steed to try and talk down another person who doesn't think the game is perfect? Please read " I'm personally hoping for "
You want evidence of upper city though? Community update 19 they promoted it as playable, I won't quote the " two weeks before launch " claim some people are making as I can't find a source but it's definetly in community update 19 regarding upper city and if you want to sit there being smug and thinking this game is perfect then all the power to you honestly you're entitled to have that opinion but I on the other hand don't think the game is perfect and like many more who are noticing, act 3 is the problem child, avernus certainly won't help that but the rest most definetly will.
You might want to follow your own advice about reading what people say.
I didnt say the game is perfect and Im not trying to talk you down. Im aware of what was said about the upper city, I know there are issues around some of the companion story arcs, tadpole use and all that.
All Im saying is that Im sceptical of claims posted around the internet by some random about cut content that was meant to be in the game. When Ive searched for datamined content on Avernus for example, this list and references to it is all Ive ever found. If you or anyone else has had more luck, Id be genuinely interested in seeing the details.
So personally, Im being cautious about a lot of these claims, and I only singled out your post because you mentioned a bit I actually tried looking into and came up empty.
The game was in Early Access for 3 years and there are some of us who waited specifically for 3 years with the intent of playing a finished product. The game is undoubtedly very good in many ways, but there are a lot of baffling design choices throughout, ingame, in content and even in UI.
Aside from all the Act 3 issues. Why was a massive chunk of the Nautiloid removed? Why were the people near the dying mindflayer removed? Just hearing about stuff that was in EA and is now just gone.
Even the campaign name when looking to join games is some random placeholder name. I don't like that I now feel like I've made a mistake buying the game and playing it now after EA, when I can probably get a much more complete experience in a year, that feels awful as an RPG fan and as a consumer.
I actually feel a bit hoodwinked because I thought the point of EA was to avoid massive glaring issues like this.
Now that I think about it, DoS2 suffered from this exact same issue, where Act 3 felt like a mess that needed much more setup and then the game just ends with a bunch of unaddressed plot threads, a friend and I finished DoS2 the other month because we were excited for BG3 and the back half of DoS2 really left a sour taste in our mouth.
Front loading a game makes it seem like the player is being deliberately tricked.
Last edited by Caffeinated King; 27/08/2303:00 AM.
The game was in Early Access for 3 years and there are some of us who waited specifically for 3 years with the intent of playing a finished product. The game is undoubtedly very good in many ways, but there are a lot of baffling design choices throughout, ingame, in content and even in UI.
Aside from all the Act 3 issues. Why was a massive chunk of the Nautiloid removed? Why were the people near the dying mindflayer removed? Just hearing about stuff that was in EA and is now just gone.
Even the campaign name when looking to join games is some random placeholder name. I don't like that I now feel like I've made a mistake buying the game and playing it now after EA, when I can probably get a much more complete experience in a year, that feels awful as an RPG fan and as a consumer.
I actually feel a bit hoodwinked because I thought the point of EA was to avoid massive glaring issues like this.
Now that I think about it, DoS2 suffered from this exact same issue, where Act 3 felt like a mess that needed much more setup and then the game just ends with a bunch of unaddressed plot threads, a friend and I finished DoS2 the other month because we were excited for BG3 and the back half of DoS2 really left a sour taste in our mouth.
Front loading a game makes it seem like the player is being deliberately tricked.
Removal of parts of the Nautiloid is basically the only content I'm ok with having been cut. The tutorial section was overly long (especially as you have to redo it every time you create a character) and it feels much better to me now. The fishermen were removed during EA for no apparent reason. It used to be a nice little encounter I hope we'll see restored eventually.
But the part I'm really angry about is the whole upper city/Act 3 affair. That has basically killed my desire to finish the game (I'm in the middle of Act 3 now with no motivation to continue and have started another character instead).
The thing that angers me the most about what was cut was the entire dynamic with Daisy and ultimately there being consequences for your actions. Act 1 is solid, but Act 3 feels like a trainwreck, especially with knowledge of what was supposed to take place in it. Especially with how not only is this game easy but there's just no consequences for choices that originally were supposed to be dire, especially for the tadpoles. It feels far too casual of a game wherein you can have half of your brain eaten by illithid worms yet somehow this causes no negative penalty whatsoever in the ending, when the original alternative of potentially getting a game over made far more sense. Instead there's objectively no gameplay reason to turn down any illithid powers since they're just flat buffs to your character without any downside. Cut plotlines hurt but what really stinks is that the offerings of incredible power have no cost to them, trivializing the game on a whole.
Realistically, I wish they had kept "Daisy" but also implemented "The Guardian"; use the same character creator for "Daisy" (I would make it so this character never mentions their name so it can be Male or Female). Then had it be "Daisy" is the tadpole trying to trick us into setting it free. While "The Guardian" is some Deity trying to 'help us' (lets be honest...they rarely do us a solid; it's always done to benefit them).
This way it would be a player choice.
---
With regards to the above.
I really wish Larian had gone with an Episodic release. Like BG3 would have "Chapter 1", which would have three Acts. That largely only span the current Act I and Act II. Then shift Act III's content and all the cut content to "Chapter 2". And release that as DLC either towards the end of 2023 or Q1 of 2024.
This would hopefully give them enough time to polish up, and fill out Acts I and II. While giving them plenty of time to "finish the game".
As it stands now, I don't see them redoing any of the Acts for a "Definitive Edition"...as in:
They'd make it so Karlach was less adverse to going back to Avernus so the "good ending" is her going back to Hell. Even though she said she'd rather die than go back there. I highly doubt they'd redo Act III (???) to allow for the "true good ending" of her heart being fixed, and getting to stay on Faerun.
-- They'd essentially have to 'reboot' the story with as big of a change as would be required to fit in all the cut content. Especially the cut content that wasn't finished (ie missing VAs of character lines). That'd be hecka expensive and most probably won't buy a 'Definitive Edition'-anything at full price.
You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else.
The thing that angers me the most about what was cut was the entire dynamic with Daisy and ultimately there being consequences for your actions. Act 1 is solid, but Act 3 feels like a trainwreck, especially with knowledge of what was supposed to take place in it. Especially with how not only is this game easy but there's just no consequences for choices that originally were supposed to be dire, especially for the tadpoles. It feels far too casual of a game wherein you can have half of your brain eaten by illithid worms yet somehow this causes no negative penalty whatsoever in the ending, when the original alternative of potentially getting a game over made far more sense. Instead there's objectively no gameplay reason to turn down any illithid powers since they're just flat buffs to your character without any downside. Cut plotlines hurt but what really stinks is that the offerings of incredible power have no cost to them, trivializing the game on a whole.
Realistically, I wish they had kept "Daisy" but also implemented "The Guardian"; use the same character creator for "Daisy" (I would make it so this character never mentions their name so it can be Male or Female). Then had it be "Daisy" is the tadpole trying to trick us into setting it free. While "The Guardian" is some Deity trying to 'help us' (lets be honest...they rarely do us a solid; it's always done to benefit them).
This way it would be a player choice.
---
With regards to the above.
I really wish Larian had gone with an Episodic release. Like BG3 would have "Chapter 1", which would have three Acts. That largely only span the current Act I and Act II. Then shift Act III's content and all the cut content to "Chapter 2". And release that as DLC either towards the end of 2023 or Q1 of 2024.
This would hopefully give them enough time to polish up, and fill out Acts I and II. While giving them plenty of time to "finish the game".
As it stands now, I don't see them redoing any of the Acts for a "Definitive Edition"...as in:
They'd make it so Karlach was less adverse to going back to Avernus so the "good ending" is her going back to Hell. Even though she said she'd rather die than go back there. I highly doubt they'd redo Act III (???) to allow for the "true good ending" of her heart being fixed, and getting to stay on Faerun.
-- They'd essentially have to 'reboot' the story with as big of a change as would be required to fit in all the cut content. Especially the cut content that wasn't finished (ie missing VAs of character lines). That'd be hecka expensive and most probably won't buy a 'Definitive Edition'-anything at full price.
In what world would a Karlach cure require a reboot?
-Give enhanced infernal iron to Dammon -"OH cool, I found these Gordian schematics from the Steel Watch!" - Heart fixed
In what world would a Karlach cure require a reboot?
-Give enhanced infernal iron to Dammon -"OH cool, I found these Gordian schematics from the Steel Watch!" - Heart fixed
Where the rewrite?
That specific story-point would be fine. When I was referring to the 'reboot' it was encompassing all the cut content like the zones and their quest chains. I haven't left Act I (may never seeing how it all turns out). So I'm going by what posts are saying, and using some deductive reasoning. Namely, that if Zone content was cut. Then they probably altered quest chains to 'wrap up' sooner.
So, if that content was suddenly added. Then those quests would need to be changed back to the way they were. May never know just how much was altered to fit the 'new' Story Board. ...hence why I believe they'd essentially be 'rebooting' the story likely from the end of Act II onward. Depending on when the cutting start.
And while it's not impossible. I don't see it happening since, from what I've read, not all the cut content was done with the voicing of lines. Which means they'd need to get the VAs back in the recording booth ($$$). Then implement all that into content (Voicing, Level Design, Cutscenes, think they did MoCap too?) that is probably only partially done ($$$$). And finally, try and sell that repackage; hoping it turns a profit.
-OR-
They could leave it 'as is' and move on to the next project.
You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else.
That specific story-point would be fine. When I was referring to the 'reboot' it was encompassing all the cut content like the zones and their quest chains. I haven't left Act I (may never seeing how it all turns out). So I'm going by what posts are saying, and using some deductive reasoning. Namely, that if Zone content was cut. Then they probably altered quest chains to 'wrap up' sooner.
So, if that content was suddenly added. Then those quests would need to be changed back to the way they were. May never know just how much was altered to fit the 'new' Story Board. ...hence why I believe they'd essentially be 'rebooting' the story likely from the end of Act II onward. Depending on when the cutting start.
Assuming these zones and quests were ever really made in the first place.
I think I have discovered two more pieces of cut content...
I think shadowhearts conversation with you in the tomb, the exclamation above her head, just before you get to withers crypt... was removed... for no reason... again?
And the woman talking to the bird in the druid grove, asking the bird to find halsin, was removed... for no reason, but she still talks like she was talking to a bird...
The Shadowheart conversation could definitely trigger before the patch, but it didn't always happen (it was the same during EA). If the conversation doesn't trigger at all now, it's likely a bug rather than cut content.
Probably another bug, she was talking to the bird during my first playthrough.
I knew that the DU had to be the real protagonist of the game.
It was too obvious.
Very close ties to the lore of the previous two games, a fully customizable character, whereas Tav is an anonymous custom character with almost no interaction with the story.
I've always maintained that it didn't make sense to choose Tav when you had the DU available.
Changing the Nautiloid for brevity I get, but honestly why were they so keen on trimming that down if the back half of the game is unfinished? Surely you'd prefer to stall players for as long as possible.
Reading about the daisy stuff as someone who avoided EA is pretty disappointing, it sounds more interesting than the guardian stuff I've seen so far. But maybe my opinion will change. In fact a friend of mine who had been playing through EA kind of set me up with the expectation that the Guardian is probably not someone you want to listen to unless you want to go all in on mindflayer stuff and it really distorted my expectations.
Originally Posted by urktheturtle
I think I have discovered two more pieces of cut content... I think shadowhearts conversation with you in the tomb, the exclamation above her head, just before you get to withers crypt... was removed... for no reason... again? And the woman talking to the bird in the druid grove, asking the bird to find halsin, was removed... for no reason, but she still talks like she was talking to a bird...
I don't know if any of that is cut or merely conditional. But the bird confused me too, because if you talk to the bird, he has nothing to do with her. I've also not had any shadowheart specific convos in the withers tomb, unless maybe you need to rest in there or something.
Last edited by Caffeinated King; 29/08/2311:26 AM.
CohhCarnage praise the game for being one of the best he's ever played but he did note that act 3 made the game feel unfinished and that the quality dropped significantly compared to act 1.
I'm hoping they'll address the missing content but realistically we shouldn't expect everything to be restored. I'm personally hoping for
Avernus Upper City Ethel's Coven - We were told they were going to come for us yet they never did. Better resolutions for Karlach Minthara actually having content in act 3 and bug fixes for her if she's still bugged. More companion dialogue restored for act 3 Epilogues Consequences for using the tadpole
The Avernus claim is the one Im most sceptical of. Its one thing to dredge up recorded audio files for an epilogue or something, quite another to claim entire regions were just cut from the game. That would mean maps, assets, characters, quest lines, encounters, etc. If someone really has found all that, I want to see evidence of it, not just someone posting their claims on multiple forums. You might well be talking about restoring something that was never really developed in the first place.
Im certainly not going to get my hopes up based on this list that keeps popping up everywhere.
Additionally, these 'dataminers' don't even share how they found this, no methods presented, no tools, where to search... just nothing. Just bunch of randoms do trololo on people that doesn't have critical thinking. I don't believe until i really see something. I hope people stop parroting this because it hurts the game.
The Avernus claim is the one Im most sceptical of. Its one thing to dredge up recorded audio files for an epilogue or something, quite another to claim entire regions were just cut from the game. That would mean maps, assets, characters, quest lines, encounters, etc. If someone really has found all that, I want to see evidence of it, not just someone posting their claims on multiple forums. You might well be talking about restoring something that was never really developed in the first place.
Im certainly not going to get my hopes up based on this list that keeps popping up everywhere.
Additionally, these 'dataminers' don't even share how they found this, no methods presented, no tools, where to search... just nothing. Just bunch of randoms do trololo on people that doesn't have critical thinking. I don't believe until i really see something. I hope people stop parroting this because it hurts the game.
Well some dataminers have posted videos showing what they found. I wouldnt automatically dismiss all of them.
But this list isnt even from someone claiming to have done it themselves, but someone claiming to have put together a definitive list of what others have found. No sources or references to what was allegedly found for the vast majority of it.
Even if they are being basically honest, they could be still be making all sorts of assumptions, extrapolations and wildly inaccurate conclusions. Theyve given us no way to judge for ourselves which makes me immediately suspicious.
Amusingly, when I said this elsewhere, someone actually posted links to the relevant software tools and said that if I didnt trust this list, I should datamine it myself. When all Im suggesting is that people might want to exercise a bit of caution about unverified claims on the internet.
The Avernus claim is the one Im most sceptical of. Its one thing to dredge up recorded audio files for an epilogue or something, quite another to claim entire regions were just cut from the game. That would mean maps, assets, characters, quest lines, encounters, etc. If someone really has found all that, I want to see evidence of it, not just someone posting their claims on multiple forums. You might well be talking about restoring something that was never really developed in the first place.
Im certainly not going to get my hopes up based on this list that keeps popping up everywhere.
Additionally, these 'dataminers' don't even share how they found this, no methods presented, no tools, where to search... just nothing. Just bunch of randoms do trololo on people that doesn't have critical thinking. I don't believe until i really see something. I hope people stop parroting this because it hurts the game.
Well some dataminers have posted videos showing what they found. I wouldnt automatically dismiss all of them.
But this list isnt even from someone claiming to have done it themselves, but someone claiming to have put together a definitive list of what others have found. No sources or references to what was allegedly found for the vast majority of it.
Even if they are being basically honest, they could be still be making all sorts of assumptions, extrapolations and wildly inaccurate conclusions. Theyve given us no way to judge for ourselves which makes me immediately suspicious.
Amusingly, when I said this elsewhere, someone actually posted links to the relevant software tools and said that if I didnt trust this list, I should datamine it myself. When all Im suggesting is that people might want to exercise a bit of caution about unverified claims on the internet.
The list absolutely takes some speculation as concrete cut content. I know this because some of it is stuff that I speculated about and never suggested was proof of anything being cut, merely what could have been based on the evidence we had available. The stuff about the 'down by the river' being datamined is not true, as far as I know.
My understanding of the "truthfulness" of this list is as follows.
1. Seemingly true. There's enough oddities in the lower city (Gortash's coronation being in a prison, Cazador's mansion being through a tower rampart, the Emperor's upper city warning, etc) that definitely make it feel like there were significant changes, as do comments by Larian leading up to release. I believe people have mentioned uncovering triggers and scripting relating to the upper city from the release files.
2. Probably true. Probably cut because it made reactivity during Shadowheart's quest an issue.
3. Not true. I've seen nothing to indicate Karlach had a 'good ending' planned, much less implemented. It's more likely that the dissonance comes from Karlach being the only character to remain in the 'moodier' version of BG3's narrative, and her general vibe of being someone they only sorted out late in development (as confirmed by the artbook and changes throughout EA.) See also: how weird her 'fixing the engine' cutscenes feel.
4. Seemingly true. Unclear why cut, but I can't imagine a pregnancy plot being anything but weird (just like Aerie's plot in BG2.)
5. Seemingly true. But neglects to mention Halsin's datamined role in the Nightsong plotline (he killed Isobel with Sorrow.) Likely cut when he was made into a full companion.
6. Probably not true -- sort of. I believe datamining did indicate that Raphael would be able to remove your tadpole toward the end of Act 1, and while the soul coins were obviously supposed to be used for something other than a buff for Karlach, I don't think anyone ever figured out what they were for. I believe there was a suggestion during EA that they'd be used to create hirelings. There was datamined content that suggested Raphael would have generally bigger role to play, however.
7. Almost certainly not true. I don't think anything Avernus related was ever datamined.
8. Kinda-sorta. It appears that Tav was something like a Bhaalspawn in EA, given some of the responses they'd have to Daisy. It is unlikely, however, that they were the Dark Urge. That said, it does appear there was a distinct split between Bhaalspawn!Tav and Release!Tav during development, and it's likely the Dark Urge was constructed as a result of that split.
9. True. Likely altered when Daisy was.
10. Seemingly true. Lots of content was turned up about this, and elements of it still persist in game (injured Voss, for example) and the general oddity of the Underdark and Mountain Pass being presented as equivalent when one is much larger than the other. Additionally, plot-related oddities in the creche sequence may be evidence of this.
11. Seemingly true and directly related to point 10. A Magic: The Gathering card hinted at this.
12. Not sure.
13. Seemingly true. Larian apparently cut these are they thought they were too long. Yeah.
14. Seemingly true.
15. Wrong. Banite cultists do feature in the game, although they do feel limited and inconsequential.
16. Apparently true.
17. True.
18. True. Similar to Shar, it was likely too problematic from a writing perspective.
19. True, but this runs with it a little. It's clear that Daisy and the Guardian/Emperor were vastly different implementations. It is likely that Daisy was the Absolute attempting to give you power to use against the Chosen keeping it enslaved. Datamining suggested there were two Daisies and one of their aspects was that of Orpheus. It is highly likely that the songs mentioned did relate to this older plotline. But I've seen nothing to suggest that ending was ever anything more than something I speculated upon a few days before this post went up.
20. True. The companions used to be visited by unique Daisies (Vlaakith for Lae'zel, Cazador for Astarion, Mystra for Gale, etc.) and this has been removed. Similar to Daisy, it's likely that these changes were a result of whatever happened behind the scenes concerning Daisy, the illithid plot, the desire to give players cool powers, significant changes in tone and narrative, and whatever else.
21. Unsure. Leaning toward no, given that she had a full-fledged romance arc in BG2.
22. True.
23. Potentially true. Given the state of Act 3, it's unclear what is not present versus bugged out.
24. True.
25. True. That said, cutting the nautiloid down makes a lot of sense given how often you might need to run through it. Irenicus' Dungeon Begone, anyone? However, it is notable for eliminating one of the few scenes featuring Mind Flayer thralls.
26. No idea. Given you can find Mol's infernal contract and how oddly it's handled, it wouldn't surprise me if there was more intended (see also: Raphael.)
27. No idea.
28. No idea.
29. See 13.
30. True. That said, I'm pretty sure this is an idea that never really got close to being implemented.
31. True. Likely cut as some consequence of Halsin's popularity. Suggestions have also been made that her werewolf aspect was rolled into the Dark Urge.
Unfortunately the genie is out of the bottle and I don't think the narrative will ever change now. People will keep expecting 'fully implemented Karlach good ending any day now!' and Upper City etc.
This is a sobering read. While AAA companies are bemoaning that BG3 has too much content, and will thus make players expect more from their flashy yet oftentimes rushed and content-starved games, this game was clearly intended to be even bigger. As is the game has impressed me in so many ways, bugs be damned, but if a later "definitive edition" would add some of the things cut out (most likely due to time constraints than anything else) that would be fantastic indeed.
So Larian have now commentated on the claims about "cut content" and things found through datamining. Specifically on Karlach, epilogues and the upper city, but also generally about why things are changed.
The upshot is that things that are just a bit broken will be patched, endings will be expanded in time, but huge swathes of the game that people claim were just removed aren't going to suddenly appear, because they never existed.
Unfortunately the genie is out of the bottle and I don't think the narrative will ever change now. People will keep expecting 'fully implemented Karlach good ending any day now!' and Upper City etc.
The Karlach thing is just kicking the can a bit further down the road. People want a happy ending, they don't want a better executed "poignant" ending. I think a lot of people are just going to end up more upset than they already are, and I think Larian -- if they truly aren't going to deliver it -- should just come out and say it, instead of letting people hype themselves up like 'aaaa, good guy Larian listened to us, #justiceforkarlach, happy ending incoming!'
And if they are going to give her a happy ending, then why not just come out and say so?
Originally Posted by Waez
This is a sobering read. While AAA companies are bemoaning that BG3 has too much content, and will thus make players expect more from their flashy yet oftentimes rushed and content-starved games, this game was clearly intended to be even bigger. As is the game has impressed me in so many ways, bugs be damned, but if a later "definitive edition" would add some of the things cut out (most likely due to time constraints than anything else) that would be fantastic indeed.
BG3 EA was generally doing things no other CRPG has really tried to do before. It was understandable when everyone from indie developers to Josh Sawyer started to sweat, and why so many fans got so fired up. I genuinely can't think of any CRPG that had a party member like Gale. One who needed significant resources from you to solve a personal crisis and, if they didn't get it, would go on to sign a deal with an antagonist. Especially when it seemed like you, the player, might've been able to make a similar deal with that same antagonist to solve your own crisis. And that was just Gale! And before you ever left Act 1!
That's the thing that I don't like about that list. It focuses on a lot of big flashy things that sound good and grab attention, but doesn't actually get into the nuts and bolts of what we lost, because Larian cut a lot more than they let on, and that you only really realize if you played EA extensively.
So Larian have now commentated on the claims about "cut content" and things found through datamining. Specifically on Karlach, epilogues and the upper city, but also generally about why things are changed.
The upshot is that things that are just a bit broken will be patched, endings will be expanded in time, but huge swathes of the game that people claim were just removed aren't going to suddenly appear, because they never existed.
There's a datamining thread in this very forum that shows off how much was there. The real takeaway from this is that it's likely going to lead to another flare-up of angry Karlach fans in the near future (they're not upset that the ending isn't poignant enough), that Larian was making very questionable decisions if you take them at their word (cutting the epilogues because they were... too long?), and outright saying that there is no "cut content" just "content they didn't want to release." It's a PR piece, damage control because Reddit is getting very upset about things that may or may not have been actually cut, and the tone of the article is strikingly different to all their other Community Updates.
But like, Larian was never going to re-implement much of this short of outright doing a Definitive Edition and even then it'd be really limited. Most of this stuff is outright gone. Larian's made their money.
So Larian have now commentated on the claims about "cut content" and things found through datamining. Specifically on Karlach, epilogues and the upper city, but also generally about why things are changed.
The upshot is that things that are just a bit broken will be patched, endings will be expanded in time, but huge swathes of the game that people claim were just removed aren't going to suddenly appear, because they never existed.
There's a datamining thread in this very forum that shows off how much was there. The real takeaway from this is that it's likely going to lead to another flare-up of angry Karlach fans in the near future (they're not upset that the ending isn't poignant enough), that Larian was making very questionable decisions if you take them at their word (cutting the epilogues because they were... too long?), and outright saying that there is no "cut content" just "content they didn't want to release." It's a PR piece, damage control because Reddit is getting very upset about things that may or may not have been actually cut, and the tone of the article is strikingly different to all their other Community Updates.
But like, Larian was never going to re-implement much of this short of outright doing a Definitive Edition and even then it'd be really limited. Most of this stuff is outright gone. Larian's made their money.
As opposed to everyone taking the author of this bloody list at their word? With it's claims of whole game regions that were supposedly just removed, despite the total lack of sources to justify such claims.
Larian aren't saying nothing is cut. Of course things are cut as changes are made throughout development. Bits of those abandoned ideas can be dug up through datamining (I've seen the thread, thanks). But notice how the claims in the list are presented as things that were "meant" to be in the game as opposed to things that got changed at some point in the development process.
It's hardly surprising they are being defensive about it, when there's unsubstantiated rumours being spread around that they lopped off big chunks of the game to hit a release deadline. After all the hard work, I'd be mad as hell about it myself.
So Larian have now commentated on the claims about "cut content" and things found through datamining. Specifically on Karlach, epilogues and the upper city, but also generally about why things are changed.
The upshot is that things that are just a bit broken will be patched, endings will be expanded in time, but huge swathes of the game that people claim were just removed aren't going to suddenly appear, because they never existed.
There's a datamining thread in this very forum that shows off how much was there. The real takeaway from this is that it's likely going to lead to another flare-up of angry Karlach fans in the near future (they're not upset that the ending isn't poignant enough), that Larian was making very questionable decisions if you take them at their word (cutting the epilogues because they were... too long?), and outright saying that there is no "cut content" just "content they didn't want to release." It's a PR piece, damage control because Reddit is getting very upset about things that may or may not have been actually cut, and the tone of the article is strikingly different to all their other Community Updates.
But like, Larian was never going to re-implement much of this short of outright doing a Definitive Edition and even then it'd be really limited. Most of this stuff is outright gone. Larian's made their money.
As opposed to everyone taking the author of this bloody list at their word? With it's claims of whole game regions that were supposedly just removed, despite the total lack of sources to justify such claims.
Larian aren't saying nothing is cut. Of course things are cut as changes are made throughout development. Bits of those abandoned ideas can be dug up through datamining (I've seen the thread, thanks). But notice how the claims in the list are presented as things that were "meant" to be in the game as opposed to things that got changed at some point in the development process.
It's hardly surprising they are being defensive about it, when there's unsubstantiated rumours being spread around that they lopped off big chunks of the game to hit a release deadline. After all the hard work, I'd be mad as hell about it myself.
Please stop trying to defend the indefensible. Its very obvious that the upper city was intended, starting from Larians own words from 2 months ago about exploring it, to the very questionable placement of NPCs and entrances in act 3, to the many leads into the upper city that remain in the game to, yes, datamined content that shows quest trigger for the upper city for quests that are quite clearly missing as it concerns companions.
As opposed to everyone taking the author of this bloody list at their word? With it's claims of whole game regions that were supposedly just removed, despite the total lack of sources to justify such claims.
Larian aren't saying nothing is cut. Of course things are cut as changes are made throughout development. Bits of those abandoned ideas can be dug up through datamining (I've seen the thread, thanks). But notice how the claims in the list are presented as things that were "meant" to be in the game as opposed to things that got changed at some point in the development process.
It's hardly surprising they are being defensive about it, when there's unsubstantiated rumours being spread around that they lopped off big chunks of the game to hit a release deadline. After all the hard work, I'd be mad as hell about it myself.
Well, why is everyone so happy to accept a badly researched and unsourced list as gospel? Why did it spread like wildfire? Those are the questions people, including Larian themselves, should be asking. Like, this list can be disassembled by just checking some Reddit posts or playing parts of the game itself. Some parts of it can't, sure, but I'd argue they're irrelevant. The reason why people are getting up in arms about "cut content" is because a bunch of people have endured an unprecedented hype cycle (even Cyberpunk didn't have people coming out and suggesting Larian was a unique animal -- oh, how that has aged), put a hundred hours into a CRPT, and found it to be... just the same as any other big name CRPG release in recent memory. A front-loaded first act, some great set pieces throughout the second, and all of it leading to a climax that is less a tapestry and more some dangling narrative threads, simply too much pointless combat instead of a genuine victory lap, and an ending that comes down to a decisions you made about ten minutes previously. Turns out Larian wasn't unique, they were a company the same as any other and they were beholden to much the same pressures.
It's also very likely they lopped off big chunks of their game to hit a release deadline. That's basically the constant of any game that gets released ever, especially CRPGs. We know that a bunch of races like Warforged had dialogue for a lot of the game, including Daisy dreams. Like, yeah, Larian didn't say nothing had been cut, they just figured they needed to specify there was no "cut content" but just "content they didn't want to release." Larian's trying to regain control of the narrative, but they won't -- they can't. The issue isn't that content was cut or removed or whatever, the issue is that a lot of people are upset that good guy Larian isn't really much different to Obsidian, Bioware, Bungie, Blizzard, CDProjekt Red or whoever else. And the irony is that every day Larian doesn't come out and honestly discuss what happened during development, because something clearly did, then trust will continue to erode.
Because "it's not cut content, it's sparkling content we didn't want to release" doesn't actually do anything to disabuse people of the notion that material was cut, much less begin quelling the discontent with the end product that's fuelling it. And everyone knows Larian can't stand by artistic integrity, because BG3's development has been defined by both a. Larian actually making changes based on loud feedback and b. acting as if they make changes based on loud feedback. That is to say, putting the desires of the audience above whatever their original plan were, even when those plans were well-along in development. But if you give a bunch of Internet people years and years of rope, don't be surprised when they string you up with it. Not to abuse a cliche, but anyone in a creative industry should know that fans don't know what they want, and letting them lead you around by the nose just ends up with situations just like this.
The idea that they thought a twenty second epilogue at the end of a 140 hour game was the absolute longest people could handle seems questionable. I guess they're trying to put aside expectations that this is going to get a definitive edition, either because they want to move onto something new or they want people to be excited when it happens.
Also, yeah, that. This is a game about cutscenes and talking to people in cutscenes. Acting as if people wouldn't want several minutes of cutscenes at the end is another reason why people aren't really accepting the response because it implies that Larian doesn't understand what the audience wants or why they play a game like BG3, or that they're lying to try and cover their butts. It'd be really nice if BG3 got a Definitive Edition, but I really wouldn't count on it. But I can't imagine they'd announce that for a while at least, either way.
based on the update, I am really worried they took the wrong lesson from the discourse surrounding cut content.
It mostly falls into two categories... people who want to see a little more polish in certain areas, and have hopes that cut content can provide that.
And people absolutely fiending and giddy for more content, to the point where they are grasping at straws looking for information about future content and DLC.
In either case, people want more, people are DESPERATE for more... people arent so much angry about cut content, as they are either... a tiny bit upset, or absolutely excited about the potential re-implementation of this content in patches or even DLC.
Many people talking about cut content even outright say they want teh cut Avernus and Upper city content as straight up full DLC.
It may be heartbreaking from devs to see this discource, but I hope they can realize that, this is a consequence not of their inadequacy, but people loving their product so much that they want more, and cant get enough of it.
based on the update, I am really worried they took the wrong lesson from the discourse surrounding cut content.
It mostly falls into two categories... people who want to see a little more polish in certain areas, and have hopes that cut content can provide that.
And people absolutely fiending and giddy for more content, to the point where they are grasping at straws looking for information about future content and DLC.
In either case, people want more, people are DESPERATE for more... people arent so much angry about cut content, as they are either... a tiny bit upset, or absolutely excited about the potential re-implementation of this content in patches or even DLC.
Many people talking about cut content even outright say they want teh cut Avernus and Upper city content as straight up full DLC.
It may be heartbreaking from devs to see this discource, but I hope they can realize that, this is a consequence not of their inadequacy, but people loving their product so much that they want more, and cant get enough of it.
No, my fear is that the only thing Larian is taking away from this is "people want happy sexy times with Karlach waifu" (and my bigger fear is that they would be correct) instead of people not accepting the large quality drop in act 3 which goes beyond mere performance issues and bugs but is about the pacing and narrative which falls apart which gets blamed on cut content.
Please stop trying to defend the indefensible. Its very obvious that the upper city was intended, starting from Larians own words from 2 months ago about exploring it, to the very questionable placement of NPCs and entrances in act 3, to the many leads into the upper city that remain in the game to, yes, datamined content that shows quest trigger for the upper city for quests that are quite clearly missing as it concerns companions.
I see. And do you have a source for these upper city quest triggers? Or should I just accept this on faith, like the above list?
Can someone explain to me how Larian is any better then all the other horrible modern gaming developers? Let me make a comparison with Cyberpunk 2077. The biggest issue with that game is that it over promised and underdelivered with huge game features missing ranging from story, side quests, police interactivity and more. To my understanding Larian has done exactly the same thing here. Larian stated a fully explorable upper city in community update #19 which they now confirmed was a lie, they discussed 17,000 permutations for the ending which we now know is ALSO a lie. Karlach's ending not being happy is not the issue (not entirely) it's that is was literally impossible to finish! Because her quest ended in the upper city... Overall Larian overpromised and underdelivered and to be quite honest I feel scammed out of my money. Yes, there are parts of the game that are good, yes I believe they will iron out the bugs, HOWEVEAR could you imagine buying any other product on the planet and having key features of it not in it when you purchase it that were previously advertised!? That is my rant and that Larian should not be praised for their level of DISHONESTY, they should be ashamed of themselves.
Well, why is everyone so happy to accept a badly researched and unsourced list as gospel? Why did it spread like wildfire? Those are the questions people, including Larian themselves, should be asking. Like, this list can be disassembled by just checking some Reddit posts or playing parts of the game itself. Some parts of it can't, sure, but I'd argue they're irrelevant. The reason why people are getting up in arms about "cut content" is because a bunch of people have endured an unprecedented hype cycle (even Cyberpunk didn't have people coming out and suggesting Larian was a unique animal -- oh, how that has aged), put a hundred hours into a CRPT, and found it to be... just the same as any other big name CRPG release in recent memory. A front-loaded first act, some great set pieces throughout the second, and all of it leading to a climax that is less a tapestry and more some dangling narrative threads, simply too much pointless combat instead of a genuine victory lap, and an ending that comes down to a decisions you made about ten minutes previously. Turns out Larian wasn't unique, they were a company the same as any other and they were beholden to much the same pressures.
It's also very likely they lopped off big chunks of their game to hit a release deadline. That's basically the constant of any game that gets released ever, especially CRPGs. We know that a bunch of races like Warforged had dialogue for a lot of the game, including Daisy dreams. Like, yeah, Larian didn't say nothing had been cut, they just figured they needed to specify there was no "cut content" but just "content they didn't want to release." Larian's trying to regain control of the narrative, but they won't -- they can't. The issue isn't that content was cut or removed or whatever, the issue is that a lot of people are upset that good guy Larian isn't really much different to Obsidian, Bioware, Bungie, Blizzard, CDProjekt Red or whoever else. And the irony is that every day Larian doesn't come out and honestly discuss what happened during development, because something clearly did, then trust will continue to erode.
Because "it's not cut content, it's sparkling content we didn't want to release" doesn't actually do anything to disabuse people of the notion that material was cut, much less begin quelling the discontent with the end product that's fuelling it. And everyone knows Larian can't stand by artistic integrity, because BG3's development has been defined by both a. Larian actually making changes based on loud feedback and b. acting as if they make changes based on loud feedback. That is to say, putting the desires of the audience above whatever their original plan were, even when those plans were well-along in development. But if you give a bunch of Internet people years and years of rope, don't be surprised when they string you up with it. Not to abuse a cliche, but anyone in a creative industry should know that fans don't know what they want, and letting them lead you around by the nose just ends up with situations just like this.
Reasonable points about some questionable decisions they made and why they made them, but that's largely a separate discussion. It's this list in particular that's fueling so much backlash about "cut content", and what Larian were no doubt responding to. This list which contains at best a lot of unfounded speculation, if not complete bollocks. People just accepting this list as reliable information is not the way to start talking about the things you want to talk about, and it seems to be giving a lot of people the impression that all this "cut content" is just sitting there waiting to be "restored" in a definitive edition or something. I don't want to see people getting their hopes up on a false premise and be disappointed all over again, so I encourage people to be more sceptical.
Well, why is everyone so happy to accept a badly researched and unsourced list as gospel? Why did it spread like wildfire? Those are the questions people, including Larian themselves, should be asking.
Indeed. Seems people are missing something.
Although it's not very convincing when the community update states the upper city was never meant to be freely explorable (because why wouldn't it be?!), I agree with Ixal here
Originally Posted by Ixal
the large quality drop in act 3 [...] is about the pacing and narrative which falls apart which gets blamed on cut content
I'm all for cutting content if it improves the story. For example the whole side quest
about the underground dragon (including the revelation that the Emperor used to be Balduran)
could have been cut for all I care, because it doesn't add anything to the story imo.
What I'm missing really are good resolutions / closures for different story threads. For example
when freeing Orpheus with the Emperor around, first I have have to go through the whole why-don't-you-trust-me-after-all-I-did-for-you dialoge with the Emperor again although at that point it's well-established that he's a manipulative lying bastard. And after dealing with him it's just "we need a mindflayer for the job who is it going to be? You (PC) or me (Orpheus)?" And then Orpheus transforms into a mindflayer spontaneously (without a tadpole in his head) and all I can say is "You're a true hero!" That's laughable. Especially after all the built up and anticipation around Orpheus as antagonist to Vlaakith (who got quite an entry in contrast.)
Anyway, all in all I enjoyed the game a lot, but I feel like SiriusVI. This could have been literature.
Originally Posted by SiriusVI
It's so frustrating, because all the stars were alligned for BG3 to be a masterpiece of a game, a true work of art. Such an opportunity does not come very often, and for now, I feel like it's gone.
Also, yeah, that. This is a game about cutscenes and talking to people in cutscenes. Acting as if people wouldn't want several minutes of cutscenes at the end is another reason why people aren't really accepting the response because it implies that Larian doesn't understand what the audience wants or why they play a game like BG3.
Couldn't put it better myself. I mean, you literally watch cutscenes for 1/3 of a game, all dialogs are cinematic. And then at the end of (in my case 90 hours) playthrough you get punched in the face with a pitiful short epilogue for a memorable adventure? I know the attention span is short nowadays, but surely we can manage 10 minutes cinematic closure to tie the loose ends.
Please stop trying to defend the indefensible. Its very obvious that the upper city was intended, starting from Larians own words from 2 months ago about exploring it, to the very questionable placement of NPCs and entrances in act 3, to the many leads into the upper city that remain in the game to, yes, datamined content that shows quest trigger for the upper city for quests that are quite clearly missing as it concerns companions.
I see. And do you have a source for these upper city quest triggers? Or should I just accept this on faith, like the above list?
If they're thinking about the same ones I am, someone posted them in the big Reddit comment thread on the Community Update. I think it was several lines that indicated there was an Upper City map distinct from Lower City and from the ending gauntlet 'Upper City.'
Please stop trying to defend the indefensible. Its very obvious that the upper city was intended, starting from Larians own words from 2 months ago about exploring it, to the very questionable placement of NPCs and entrances in act 3, to the many leads into the upper city that remain in the game to, yes, datamined content that shows quest trigger for the upper city for quests that are quite clearly missing as it concerns companions.
I see. And do you have a source for these upper city quest triggers? Or should I just accept this on faith, like the above list?
If they're thinking about the same ones I am, someone posted them in the big Reddit comment thread on the Community Update. I think it was several lines that indicated there was an Upper City map distinct from Lower City and from the ending gauntlet 'Upper City.'
Please stop trying to defend the indefensible. Its very obvious that the upper city was intended, starting from Larians own words from 2 months ago about exploring it, to the very questionable placement of NPCs and entrances in act 3, to the many leads into the upper city that remain in the game to, yes, datamined content that shows quest trigger for the upper city for quests that are quite clearly missing as it concerns companions.
I see. And do you have a source for these upper city quest triggers? Or should I just accept this on faith, like the above list?
If they're thinking about the same ones I am, someone posted them in the big Reddit comment thread on the Community Update. I think it was several lines that indicated there was an Upper City map distinct from Lower City and from the ending gauntlet 'Upper City.'
I'll file that under hearsay, thanks.
It was conclusive enough that a dataminer who was arguing there was no evidence for the Upper City in the files ended up admitting that there was some evidence. It matched the code used for triggers to enter area maps such as Moonrise. So, a little more than hearsay. It was something like BG3_LOWER_A, BG3_END_A, BG3_UPPER_A, BG3_UPPERCRYPT_A. Lower is the city as is, End being the climax location, and Upper not corresponding to any location in the game as is. Not exactly a map full of content, sure, but evidence of something.
Can someone explain to me how Larian is any better then all the other horrible modern gaming developers? Let me make a comparison with Cyberpunk 2077. The biggest issue with that game is that it over promised and underdelivered with huge game features missing ranging from story, side quests, police interactivity and more. To my understanding Larian has done exactly the same thing here. Larian stated a fully explorable upper city in community update #19 which they now confirmed was a lie, they discussed 17,000 permutations for the ending which we now know is ALSO a lie. Karlach's ending not being happy is not the issue (not entirely) it's that is was literally impossible to finish! Because her quest ended in the upper city... Overall Larian overpromised and underdelivered and to be quite honest I feel scammed out of my money. Yes, there are parts of the game that are good, yes I believe they will iron out the bugs, HOWEVEAR could you imagine buying any other product on the planet and having key features of it not in it when you purchase it that were previously advertised!? That is my rant and that Larian should not be praised for their level of DISHONESTY, they should be ashamed of themselves.
Agree. But compared to CP BG3 is a much better game. CP is boring with a dead city more a movie than a game. But you are right. So i would be glad if they bring a DLC with more content (even cut content).
Clearly, the audience can tell that *something* is missing in Act III.
Whether it was cut or the last act of the game is unsatisfying for the community is almost irrelevant. The narrative threads were set up well. Extremely well. But they're not paying off in the current iteration.
My guess, and it's just a guess, is that there are writers on the staff who had to compromise some narrative vision for one reason or another, and that turned out to be a mistake.
I see. And do you have a source for these upper city quest triggers? Or should I just accept this on faith, like the above list?
If they're thinking about the same ones I am, someone posted them in the big Reddit comment thread on the Community Update. I think it was several lines that indicated there was an Upper City map distinct from Lower City and from the ending gauntlet 'Upper City.'
I'll file that under hearsay, thanks.
It was conclusive enough that a dataminer who was arguing there was no evidence for the Upper City in the files ended up admitting that there was some evidence. It matched the code used for triggers to enter area maps such as Moonrise. So, a little more than hearsay. It was something like BG3_LOWER_A, BG3_END_A, BG3_UPPER_A, BG3_UPPERCRYPT_A. Lower is the city as is, End being the climax location, and Upper not corresponding to any location in the game as is. Not exactly a map full of content, sure, but evidence of something.
I assume you mean this comment by theredwoman95 and subsequent conversation?
If so is there any reason you omitted the tiny little detail that the location tags are from almost 3 years ago? All the other dataminer (Gattman) ends up admitting, is that there was likely an upper city area at least considered in early development. They suggest it was likely removed when smaller regions of the city were combined into larger ones, but that is really just speculation.
That is very very different from the claims that the upper city was a complete separate zone in addition to what we got being cut from the game at the very last minute. There appears to be no evidence of that at all, and it doesnt even sound feasible to me. Theyd be mad to make changes of that scale a couple of weeks out from launch.
So all we really seem to have on this upper city business is that misleading quote from Sven. God knows what possessed him to say that, but Im sure he regrets it now.
Clearly, the audience can tell that *something* is missing in Act III.
Whether it was cut or not, the last act of the game is unsatisfying for the community is almost irrelevant. The narrative threads were set up well. Extremely well. But they're not paying off in the current iteration.
My guess, and it's just a guess, is that there are writers on the staff who had to compromise some narrative vision for one reason or another, and that turned out to be a mistake.
I agree. It ultimately doesnt matter why the end result is unsatisfying. Whether the original artistic vision was bad or whether the original artistic vision was changed to meet a release deadline doesnt matter. What matters is whether the game, as it is, feels satisfying. Data mining is just an attempt to figure out why certain aspects of the game feel unsatisfying.
It doesnt matter when cuts and revisions were made. It doesnt matter whether the content that was cut was finished or well done. Ad hominem attacks against data miners will not improve anyones gaming experience.
Hag Coven content was cut. Ethel's letters to her sisters in Baldur's Gate are STILL IN THE GAME. Yet you encounter no hag coven, but only Ethel. Same for Myreena's brothers. They didn't get killed in my playthrough, but they never reappeared in the Lower City.
You also never encounter the Gondians after rescuing their family in the Iron Throne and freeing them at the Steelwatch Foundry, because they're meant to reside in the House of Wonders in the Upper City, but the Upper City is cut.
There is also a random Flaming Fist that gives a speech in the final battle, but throughout the entire Act 3 the Flaming Fist are hostile mercenaries that never truly are interacted with and convinced to come to your side against Gortash.
There is not a single Harper remaining after Orin kills the contingent in Baldur's Gate, somehow the few we know remain all at Moonrise Towers. The Harpers storyline for Jaheira just goes cold.
Minsc is recruited way too late into the game. As a result, he really has no story whatsoever besides the joke that you rescue him after he got randomly tadpoled by Bhaalists. Very undercooked.
Hag Coven content was cut. Ethel's letters to her sisters in Baldur's Gate are STILL IN THE GAME. Yet you encounter no hag coven, but only Ethel. Same for Myreena's brothers. They didn't get killed in my playthrough, but they never reappeared in the Lower City.
You also never encounter the Gondians after rescuing their family in the Iron Throne and freeing them at the Steelwatch Foundry, because they're meant to reside in the House of Wonders in the Upper City, but the Upper City is cut.
There is also a random Flaming Fist that gives a speech in the final battle, but throughout the entire Act 3 the Flaming Fist are hostile mercenaries that never truly are interacted with and convinced to come to your side against Gortash.
There is not a single Harper remaining after Orin kills the contingent in Baldur's Gate, somehow the few we know remain all at Moonrise Towers. The Harpers storyline for Jaheira just goes cold.
Minsc is recruited way too late into the game. As a result, he really has no story whatsoever besides the joke that you rescue him after he got randomly tadpoled by Bhaalists. Very undercooked.
I see a lot of complaints about the upper city being cut and hopefully being readded.
I don't see how this could reasonably happen. You already hit level cap going into Act III pretty quickly with a lot of remaining content. If they added the upper city, you'd spend way too long capped out, but if they raise the cap, it breaks the balance of the ending.
They could make it post-ending content,
but the city was heavily damaged in the ending, so existing assets would have to be changed. It also doesn't resolve that you can end the game controlling the brain and other massively altering finishes.
The only way would be to alter the approach to the ending if you do upper city content, but that is a lot of work and unlikely IMO.
I just don't see a path for this being re-added. IMO I'd much rather see Avernus, it seems more viable.
Originally Posted by Firesong
Well, yes, sad to see the game was frontloaded.
This is my biggest complaint with the game.
Act I is amazing, but Act II is _WAY_ too short. Not necessarily in length, but in the amount of available content and exp. They made a comment a few days ago saying that was by design, but the problem with that design philosophy is that it basically forces you to do everything in Act I so you are leveled appropriately for Act II and III. IMO this kills replayability, because every time you play a new run, you don't have much choice in skipping content in Act I or Act II. IMO you shouldn't have to repeat every quest and mission line every time solely to reach appropriate levels.
If you skip missions or content in Act I, there is no room for catchup in Act II and, again, forces you to do everything in Act II. It isn't until Act III where you get the chance to pick what content you want to do and skip some of the missions to reach level cap. If you reach Act III at too low of a level, there is no way of doing this either because you'd be way too low level. It really frontloads the game.
What's frustrating about this post and list is that it seems there was more for both Act I and II available, but it was cut and a lot of content was kept in Act III. I think it should have been more balanced out and spread out.
I agree. It ultimately doesnt matter why the end result is unsatisfying. Whether the original artistic vision was bad or whether the original artistic vision was changed to meet a release deadline doesnt matter. What matters is whether the game, as it is, feels satisfying. Data mining is just an attempt to figure out why certain aspects of the game feel unsatisfying.
It doesnt matter when cuts and revisions were made. It doesnt matter whether the content that was cut was finished or well done. Ad hominem attacks against data miners will not improve anyones gaming experience.
Disagree. It makes a massive difference to what comes next, and peoples expectations about what comes next. Particularly since Larian have confirmed they will keep working on it (to some extent at least).
At one end of the scale, there could be things that Larian fully intended to be in release, are close to being complete, but cut for time or technical reasons at the last minute. In which case, it would be feasible to finish off and they would likely want to do so.
At the other end, we have rough ideas, never really developed and dropped long ago because Larian thought it didnt work. ie content they decided was bad, waa not properly developed in the first place and will never ever see the light of day.
Hag Coven content was cut. Ethel's letters to her sisters in Baldur's Gate are STILL IN THE GAME. Yet you encounter no hag coven, but only Ethel. Same for Myreena's brothers. They didn't get killed in my playthrough, but they never reappeared in the Lower City.
You also never encounter the Gondians after rescuing their family in the Iron Throne and freeing them at the Steelwatch Foundry, because they're meant to reside in the House of Wonders in the Upper City, but the Upper City is cut.
There is also a random Flaming Fist that gives a speech in the final battle, but throughout the entire Act 3 the Flaming Fist are hostile mercenaries that never truly are interacted with and convinced to come to your side against Gortash.
There is not a single Harper remaining after Orin kills the contingent in Baldur's Gate, somehow the few we know remain all at Moonrise Towers. The Harpers storyline for Jaheira just goes cold.
Minsc is recruited way too late into the game. As a result, he really has no story whatsoever besides the joke that you rescue him after he got randomly tadpoled by Bhaalists. Very undercooked.
I wrote my own thread on this tpic, because I felt this one was to clogged, and wouldnt be seen. So of course it got locked.
Here is what I wrote in it
"I just read the update, and I know there has been a lot of discourse surrounding so-called cut content. And I get the sense from the folks at Larian are... a bit upset at the reaction to it, not in the angry way, but in such a way that they feel sad at peoples reactions toward it.
I want to offer a different perspective on how this discussion should be views, because when you get deep into the content of these discussions... the topic of, what I will call "Unrealized Content" is less contentious and critical than it may seem on the surface.
There are areas in the game people feel are lacking, and the existence of this unrealized content gives them hope that those areas of the game will be bolstered in oncoming updates. And people are thus actually excited about the cut content, because they dont want Larian to have to do more work than they have to do.
AS well a lot of the unrealized content in the game could be used as a basis for DLC, presuming that the datamined content is only the tip of the ice berg... people are practically giddy at the possibility that work on what could become DLC is already done on some level.
People arent being angry or critical, look at the reactions to the Unrealized Avernus content in particular, almost everyone directly addressing that content utilized for DLC instead of being re-introduced via a patch or anything. Heck even many people talking about the upper city think it would make good DLC.
Bottom line, is that... when the criticisms are primarily, that people want more... its not the end of the world. Its really tempting to see the conversation as purely critical, but I promise if you read what people have to say, and even talk to them... you will see there is excitement there to.
(also peoples problems with the Karlach endings, are not their lack of poignancy... and the epilogue could be 5 hours long for all anyone cares)"
Disagree. It makes a massive difference to what comes next, and peoples expectations about what comes next. Particularly since Larian have confirmed they will keep working on it (to some extent at least).
At one end of the scale, there could be things that Larian fully intended to be in release, are close to being complete, but cut for time or technical reasons at the last minute. In which case, it would be feasible to finish off and they would likely want to do so.
At the other end, we have rough ideas, never really developed and dropped long ago because Larian thought it didnt work. ie content they decided was bad, waa not properly developed in the first place and will never ever see the light of day.
Or anything in between those extremes.
People who are currently playing the game or who have already completed the game do not benefit from whatever comes next. We have no idea what Larian views as being worth the time and effort to change or when those changes might be implemented (beyond what was announced in Community Update #24).
If you really care to figure out what content was cut, you should just do your own datamining. All data mining claims are verifiable.
"I just read the update, and I know there has been a lot of discourse surrounding so-called cut content. And I get the sense from the folks at Larian are... a bit upset at the reaction to it, not in the angry way, but in such a way that they feel sad at peoples reactions toward it.
I want to offer a different perspective on how this discussion should be views, because when you get deep into the content of these discussions... the topic of, what I will call "Unrealized Content" is less contentious and critical than it may seem on the surface.
There are areas in the game people feel are lacking, and the existence of this unrealized content gives them hope that those areas of the game will be bolstered in oncoming updates. And people are thus actually excited about the cut content, because they dont want Larian to have to do more work than they have to do.
AS well a lot of the unrealized content in the game could be used as a basis for DLC, presuming that the datamined content is only the tip of the ice berg... people are practically giddy at the possibility that work on what could become DLC is already done on some level.
People arent being angry or critical, look at the reactions to the Unrealized Avernus content in particular, almost everyone directly addressing that content utilized for DLC instead of being re-introduced via a patch or anything. Heck even many people talking about the upper city think it would make good DLC.
Bottom line, is that... when the criticisms are primarily, that people want more... its not the end of the world. Its really tempting to see the conversation as purely critical, but I promise if you read what people have to say, and even talk to them... you will see there is excitement there to.
(also peoples problems with the Karlach endings, are not their lack of poignancy... and the epilogue could be 5 hours long for all anyone cares)"
Im sure youre right, at least for many people, but what if much of this content never actually existed in the first place? Then you have lots of people getting excited about stuff they think can be implemented with a relatively small amount of effort when really Larian would have to make it from stratch (not the dog).
Avernus is a good example of this, because as far I can see, the rumour of an Avernus level seems to originate from this list. Maybe the author of that list got it from somewhere else, maybe there is actually evidence, or maybe they misunderstood something someone else found, or maybe they completely made it up. Bit hard to tell when they didnt bother to say exactly where they got their information from or exactly what was supposedly found.
Now we have the likes of Screenrant jumping on the bandwagon:
Their source for these claims? Just the same Reddit post, which laughably had already been removed by moderators before they put this article on their site.
Id have thought a well known entertainment website should know better than to blindly accept what random people say on Reddit, but apparently not. Thats real sloppy journalism.
Disagree. It makes a massive difference to what comes next, and peoples expectations about what comes next. Particularly since Larian have confirmed they will keep working on it (to some extent at least).
At one end of the scale, there could be things that Larian fully intended to be in release, are close to being complete, but cut for time or technical reasons at the last minute. In which case, it would be feasible to finish off and they would likely want to do so.
At the other end, we have rough ideas, never really developed and dropped long ago because Larian thought it didnt work. ie content they decided was bad, waa not properly developed in the first place and will never ever see the light of day.
Or anything in between those extremes.
People who are currently playing the game or who have already completed the game do not benefit from whatever comes next. We have no idea what Larian views as being worth the time and effort to change or when those changes might be implemented (beyond what was announced in Community Update #24).
If you really care to figure out what content was cut, you should just do your own datamining. All data mining claims are verifiable.
Interesting take. This forum is full of people making suggestions on what they would like to see changed. Im guessing that the majority have played or are currently playing the game. But whatever Larian do with the game is of no benefit to them? Really?
Do you tell people who believe all the claims in this list that they should datamine it themselves, or just people who say we should be careful about unsourced information? Im not the one spreading rumours around the internet.
Disagree. It makes a massive difference to what comes next, and peoples expectations about what comes next. Particularly since Larian have confirmed they will keep working on it (to some extent at least).
At one end of the scale, there could be things that Larian fully intended to be in release, are close to being complete, but cut for time or technical reasons at the last minute. In which case, it would be feasible to finish off and they would likely want to do so.
At the other end, we have rough ideas, never really developed and dropped long ago because Larian thought it didnt work. ie content they decided was bad, waa not properly developed in the first place and will never ever see the light of day.
Or anything in between those extremes.
People who are currently playing the game or who have already completed the game do not benefit from whatever comes next. We have no idea what Larian views as being worth the time and effort to change or when those changes might be implemented (beyond what was announced in Community Update #24).
If you really care to figure out what content was cut, you should just do your own datamining. All data mining claims are verifiable.
Interesting take. This forum is full of people making suggestions on what they would like to see changed. Im guessing that the majority have played or are currently playing the game. But whatever Larian do with the game is of no benefit to them? Really?
Do you tell people who believe all the claims in this list that they should datamine it themselves, or just people who say we should be careful about unsourced information? Im not the one spreading rumours around the internet.
I see you commenting in here a lot basically denying everything. Check community update #19 yourself and you will see that they did in fact talk about being able to explore the upper city. They lied two weeks before release and said nothing 1. Secondly this is a very disgusting bait and switch tactic and before you say "oh how many people wouldn't have bought the game if they knew this???" obviously enough to scare them into lying so they could preserve their sales... stop defending bad behavior and have some self-respect.
I see you commenting in here a lot basically denying everything. Check community update #19 yourself and you will see that they did in fact talk about being able to explore the upper city. They lied two weeks before release and said nothing 1. Secondly this is a very disgusting bait and switch tactic and before you say "oh how many people wouldn't have bought the game if they knew this???" obviously enough to scare them into lying so they could preserve their sales... stop defending bad behavior and have some self-respect.
Im not defending anything. My entire point thoughout this thread has simply been- how reliable is the information in this list thats been posted around the internet? Where are the sources? What was actually found?
What Sven said about the upper city was clearly wrong. At least misleading if not outright false. If there ever was an upper city zone explorable before the very end, I have a very hard time believing it was cut two week before launch. So maybe it wasnt developed in the first place? Do we actually have anything concrete to go on besides what Sven said?
Do you tell people who believe all the claims in this list that they should datamine it themselves, or just people who say we should be careful about unsourced information? Im not the one spreading rumours around the internet.
You are being both lazy and disingenuous. The source of all data mining info is in the game files that are already installed on your computer. Why would data miners cite their source when the source is the game files that everyone has access to?
I hope that they will bring much of that stuff in again over time. I love this game but I'm not blind to the problems the cut content has caused to the overall storytelling (especially when it comes to act 3, epilogues and your relationships).
This game is already a cinematic experience. What made Larian think the players wouldnt want a semi-interactive movie as the epilogue? What made them think we dont have enough investment in our party that we wouldnt care if they didnt get closure or if we didnt get closure? Thats a creative decision I have trouble wrapping my head around, as it seems to contradict the vision for the game, which is in part based on character driven cinematics and respecting player choice
Upper city and other alleged cut content I can accept because it sounds like a combination of a slip of the tongue combined with an audience dreaming up grand scenarios.
Remember the human (This is a forum for a video game):
Do you tell people who believe all the claims in this list that they should datamine it themselves, or just people who say we should be careful about unsourced information? Im not the one spreading rumours around the internet.
You are being both lazy and disingenuous. The source of all data mining info is in the game files that are already installed on your computer. Why would data miners cite their source when the source is the game files that everyone has access to?
And it takes skill and a lot of time to sift through it all to work out what might be relevant. Probably real programming ability to do much more than dig up things like unused audio files. Is it really too much to ask exactly what others have found?
What did you find in your datamining then? Im keen to hear the opinions on all this from people who have put the effort in.
(PS the author of this list does not say they did it themselves)
This game is already a cinematic experience. What made Larian think the players wouldnt want a semi-interactive movie as the epilogue? What made them think we dont have enough investment in our party that we wouldnt care if they didnt get closure or if we didnt get closure? Thats a creative decision I have trouble wrapping my head around, as it seems to contradict the vision for the game, which is in part based on character driven cinematics and respecting player choice
Upper city and other alleged cut content I can accept because it sounds like a combination of a slip of the tongue combined with an audience dreaming up grand scenarios.
To be blunt, I want at least the cut systems restored (full crafting and Exhaustion). I'd love to see Orin's attack on the crech restored, along with the Upper City and it's quests but I doubt either will happen outside of a Definitive Edition.
I'd love to get the full epilogue but couldn't care less about Minathara or Karlach's ending.
At least you acknowledge that good. I think there could be a lot of possible scenarios and no we don't know (probably will never know) the true 150% exactly what happened. However, it was advertised and then was not present so this means it is misleading at best and fraud at worst which no matter how you slice it, IS NOT GOOD. Period.
Please stop trying to defend the indefensible. Its very obvious that the upper city was intended, starting from Larians own words from 2 months ago about exploring it, to the very questionable placement of NPCs and entrances in act 3, to the many leads into the upper city that remain in the game to, yes, datamined content that shows quest trigger for the upper city for quests that are quite clearly missing as it concerns companions.
I fully agree. Also one more thing I find important - have you guys ever noticed that when going north of the Baldur's Gate waypoint towards the Upper City gate game stops you from progressing there. And if you persisted The Emperor is "interfering" and teleporting you back, because "the Elder Brain was there". How is the Elder Brain there in the Upper City while it is in a cave complex where you go by boat through the Sewers/Undercity? So the brain is at two places simultaneously?
That or it is just a simple excuse for not letting you enter Upper City. It could have easily been just a gate you can't pass or open and that's it. Why whole mechanic to stop you? Nowhere in the entire game there is such a thing except when the EA was not letting you progress into already existing zones.
The fact that some kind of drama is being made about this is the depressing part. Are people really this clueless about the process of developing these kinds of huge projects.
Movies, games, music albums, every single major project and even plenty of minor ones are going to finish with stuff left on the cutting room floor, stuff that possibly had some redeeming qualities but didnt fit or didnt work for one reason or other. Shitty game "journalist" sites are partly to blame for trying to make a mountain out of this molehill entirely for clicks.
But people aren't upset over the fact that content was cut so much as they are upset that Larian did a terrible job of cleaning it up. Cut content isn't meant to leave gaping narrative and design holes that make the game feel unfinished and unpolished.
Like, conversations reference things that don't exist. Items marked as quest items aren't actually used for anything. Storylines are unsatisfying and abruptly ended.
Then to add insult to injury, things like the upper city and tadpoles actually having consequences were hyped just months before release which is misrepresentation and false advertising.
Tenuous. Greek mythological Orpheus was a bard and completely different character. And thats a harp, which everyone knows represents Guinness beer.
Aw, you edited just before my snarky comment. Damn it.
Oh, yeah, I'm not saying 'Gith Orpheus is Greek Orpheus' or anything, but there has to be a reason why Larian used such a jarring name for such a prominent character. I suspect the musical lyre/harp stuff was part of it. Maybe they thought they'd do something "clever" like linking him to the Harpers or something. As it is, you've got like... Lae'zel, Vlaakith, Voss, W'wargaz, and... Orpheus.
But people aren't upset over the fact that content was cut so much as they are upset that Larian did a terrible job of cleaning it up. Cut content isn't meant to leave gaping narrative and design holes that make the game feel unfinished and unpolished.
Like, conversations reference things that don't exist. Items marked as quest items aren't actually used for anything. Storylines are unsatisfying and abruptly ended.
Then to add insult to injury, things like the upper city and tadpoles actually having consequences were hyped just months before release which is misrepresentation and false advertising.
Especially when they could have just done a Part 1 (Acts 1&2) and Part 2 (Act 3 and an additional 4th).
You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else.
My other favorite game is RDR2 so I get the feeling of heartbreak about cut content. That game had a lot of amazing stuff that got chopped, and all of New Austin/the west felt empty and unfinished At least Larian might actually add more to this game. RDR2 got dropped as soon as it was released, sadly.
I see you commenting in here a lot basically denying everything. Check community update #19 yourself and you will see that they did in fact talk about being able to explore the upper city. They lied two weeks before release and said nothing 1. Secondly this is a very disgusting bait and switch tactic and before you say "oh how many people wouldn't have bought the game if they knew this???" obviously enough to scare them into lying so they could preserve their sales... stop defending bad behavior and have some self-respect.
Im not defending anything. My entire point thoughout this thread has simply been- how reliable is the information in this list thats been posted around the internet? Where are the sources? What was actually found?
What Sven said about the upper city was clearly wrong. At least misleading if not outright false. If there ever was an upper city zone explorable before the very end, I have a very hard time believing it was cut two week before launch. So maybe it wasnt developed in the first place? Do we actually have anything concrete to go on besides what Sven said?
Can you actually quote Swen on anything upper city? Like actual quote of something he said? If you look through the city reveral video one of the devs clearly state the journey come to a conclusion in the lower city. And I'm not so sure Swen is the one that write all these community updates himself. The llast days I been looking through every video, interview etc I could find and no where there been any "upper city"... wishful thinking doesn't make datamined tidbits equal actual cut content of any value.
As for validity of the datamined stuff. You have tidbits of text. There isn't any building blocks for modders to even make heads or tails of re-create any of this alleged cut contet. When you try discuss this then you have people "look at the links" and then.. well you got wonderful links, what do they prove? Of which.... you get THE LINKS... of which when you look into them doesn't lead anywhere or prove anything.
To throw flames on this old topic. A source at Larian mentioned to me that a lot of additional content was cut, although they would not confirm either way if it was the upper city (although they said it was extensive.) That said, they mentioned that the Emperor was a late addition who resulted from players not engaging with the tadpole mechanic. Food for thought.
To throw flames on this old topic. A source at Larian mentioned to me that a lot of additional content was cut, although they would not confirm either way if it was the upper city (although they said it was extensive.) That said, they mentioned that the Emperor was a late addition who resulted from players not engaging with the tadpole mechanic. Food for thought.
That was already clear when they still printed Daisy in the artbook and not the Emperor and that the voicelines still suggests that using tadpoles is bad.
It looks to be they had someone competent work on the story for EA who then left and every change after that was made by a hack and made the game worse.
But if true that they rewrote the main story just to implement their shitty tadpole powerup system no one uses the Larian is even worse than I thought.
I've been working on compiling cut content datamined from various sources and while I had a ton of this information in my other thread I decided to forego the "review" or the complaints and simply list off the cut content that has been confirmed thus far.
1) The Upper City - The most obvious one. Swen himself talked about the "Affluent Upper City" just 2 weeks before launch and described as it being fully explorable and yet it's very noticeably absent from the final game.
2) Shar Worship - In EA the player was able to select Shar as a diety which game with it's own unique dialogue trees, especially when interacting with Shadowheart as a fellow Shar worshiper. Despite the fact that voice lines were datamined indicating this had functions well into Act 2, it was cut when the game launched.
3) Karlach's Ending - Datamined content shows that not only did Karlach have a full ending where her infernal engine was fixed and that she survived, but that most of it was fully voiced and complete. However it required triggers from the Upper City portion of Baldur's Gate and when that was cut, so was Karlach's Act 3 storyline. What we have behind have been confirmed to be Karlach's "fail state" endings which were meant to only play if the player neglected her quest chain.
4) Minthara's Story - Minthara was meant to have a much deeper story, including a pregnancy. These were likely cut due to Minthara being a late stage addition to our roster but dialogue lines remain in the games files that show that not only did Minthara have a lot more content for herself but your other companions had a lot more to say about it.
5) Halsin's Story - Another late addition to the roster, Halsin was originally intended to have a great deal more endgame content involving the Druid circle, but this appears to have been cut more early on than some of the other items thus far.
6) Raphael the Merchant - Originally Raphael was meant to be a fully viable option to remove your tadpole, in fact the "Soul Coin" items that you collect in game where originally meant to be a powerful alternative currency accepted only by Raphael in exchange for possibly retrieving your soul as well as a long list of incredibly powerful artifacts from the House of Hope that would be sold by Raphael himself.
7) Avernus - An entire area of the game. Avernus was meant to be fully explorable and of similar size to the Underdark Area of Act 1. It would be a source not only for Soul Coins but other rare materials, highly difficult fights, and special content for Karlach.
8) Tav the Dark Urge - A lot of people were both surprised and excited to see the addition of The Dark Urge origin as the Bhaalspawn/Evil option that was missing from EA. As it turns out, Tav was originally the Dark Urge and they were all one origin. Tav was meant to be Bhaalspawn and separating the two seems to be what caused the narrative divide between the Dead Three storyline and the Mindflayer plot.
9) Omeluum's Ring - In the EA version of the game this ring would block your Tadpole entirely. It could not grow, it could not grow stronger, and you could not use Illithid powers. In the launch version this ring prevents you from being charmed despite Omeluum still stating that it blocked the influence of the Elder Brain/Absolute.
10) Bhaal and Orin versus the Creche - An entire Act 2 battle was cut in which Bhaal's forces, led by Orin, attacked the Githyanki creche which led to a fight where you either sided with one or the other or had a massive 3-way fight on your hands.
11) Orin and the Dragon - Orin was meant to corrupt a Githyank red dragon, leading to a boss fight against a Slayer-formesque Dragon.
12) The Hag Coven in Act 2 and 3 - You may notice that accepting Auntie Ethels help in the first Act can lead to a negative effect when fighting Hags. You may also notice that despite Auntie Ethel having letters from other Hags in her basement, she is the only one you encounter. Originally there was meant to be a full three act story involving the Hag coven including the mysterious "M" who seems to have been their leader.
13) Epilogues - Full epilogue cutscenes have been datamined that varied greatly depending on your choices. These were the "17K ending variations" that Larian told us about, yet they are completely absent in the final game leading only to a fade to black scene at the end of the game.
14) Cazador's Story - Originally Cazador was meant to play a huge role in the Upper City of Baldur's Gate, including being a huge political power. Datamined content also shows that originally he was meant to be a potential ally in the final push against the Absolute.
15) Banite Cultists - The game features both Bhaal and Myrkul cultists rather heavily but Bane is reduced to Gortash alone. Despite the fact that they had full and finished assets for both armor, weapons, and some events the Banites were cut from the final game.
16) Act 1 Minsc - Minsc was meant to be recruited at the end of Act 1 but was cut and pushed back into the later game.
17) Dialogue and Events - Even from Act 1 itself, thousands of lines of dialogue and companion events were cut from the final game. Some of them were even fully voiced and ready to be implemented in game but also referenced other content that ended up on the cutting room floor.
18) Bhaal, Myrkul and Bane as Deities - Cleric's were meant to be fully able to select the Dead Three from the list of Deities. There were even special dialogues in game for player's who played as a Paladin and then multiclassed at least 1 level of Cleric on top and selected one of the Dead Three.
19) Daisy - It's not a secret that Daisy was cut from the game after the last EA release and replaced with "The Guardian." Originally Daisy was representative of the tadpole in your head, not the Emperor, and would attempt to seduce your character into staying in the meadow by the river with her forever. A happy life with an imaginary dream lover while your body underwent ceramorphosis and was lost to you forever. Daisy was such an important part of the plot that both of the games theme songs "Down by The River" and "The Power" are based entirely upon Daisy. Datamined content also shows there was originally an ending where players would embrace a romance with Daisy and give themselves over to the parasite, forever leaving their individual consciousness "down by the river" with Daisy.
20) Companions and the Illithid Worm - Originally companions were meant to accept or refuse Illithid gifts independently of the player choices. You could of course influence them through dialogue to decide who did and did not take the offered gifts, but ultimately it would be based on individual characters choices. This can still be seen in game as a bug when companions will awake after a long rest and claim to have received a gift from their Guardian and yet will have gained no actual power.
21) Romancing Jaheira - Apparently you were originally meant to have limited options to romance and sleep with Jaheira but these were cut last minute. It's unclear why.
22) Tadpole's and Consequences - There were originally meant to be severe consequences from using the Illithid powers too heavily and investing too much into the Tadpole powers. This seems obvious in game and yet ultimately in the release version goes nowhere as the ending is reduced to about 4 choices made in the last leg of the game. You can use all tadpoles or none and receive the same ending.
23) Act 3 Companion Dialogue - If you've noticed that companions have much less to say at the end of their journey it's because thousands of lines of dialogue were cut from companions in the final Act and all for various reasons. This also seems to be the source of most of the companion bugs that only appear in the final act as they're still trying to trigger events that simply no longer exist.
24) Multiple Cutscenes - There are multiple cutscenes that were present for Act 1 that are missing from the final game.
25) The Nautolid - A large portion of the Nautolid tutorial zone was cut in the final release, including cutscenes, dialogue, areas, and an optional fight with 2 injured Imps. This was likely cut for the sake of brevity more than anything.
26) Mol and Raphael - Isn't it odd how Mol will just escape from Raphael on her own and say it was "easy?" Well it turns out that's because they cut whatever the final leg of that quest was meant to be, instead they allow Mol to escape on her own which more or less skips to the end and around the cut content.
27) The Raven Queen - There was an entire second part of the storyline that was cut early on.
28) The Voice of Bane - It's possible to have a brief conversation with Bane, but it remains incomplete as the dialogue is unvoiced for some reason.
29) The Wither's Epilogue - WIther's was meant to narrate an epilogue for the players, to what extent is unsure but instead WIther's is left with a single event in the entire game when post-credit's he can be seen revealing himself as Jergal and mocking a mural of the Dead Three.
30) Crafting - An early access build contained a crafting bench and it seems originally we were meant to have full access to crafting/enchanting gear of our own through certain systems. While these were cut, the items for them were not. This is why items like ingots, gemstones, woods, and other material items appear in game with no use other than vendor trash.
31) Helia - The Halfling Werewolf that I sadly forgot was cut from the game.
32) Belts - There is an item slot in game for belts, not a single belt is present in the game as an item.
Now, I appreciate that some of it isn't necessarily relevant anymore - I thought Wyll was more interesting in EA as his darker side made him less flat, but that's my opinion. However the feedback is obvious. I'd have happily waited 6 months more to get this in the game.
I'm so happy someone digged up this old thread, because I believe Larian would want players to comment over that - if they would want it to be restored or not. I don't understand those extremes: - why is someone so obssessed with proving it wasn't there at all or - that the game is worse than completelly broken Cyberpunk because of it - the rage wasn't because Cyberpunk wasn't good RPG, but because of technical issues and Larian delievered what they promised, even more - it is mindblowing RP game.
So IMO the most important is if we players would find it as a nice addition to the current game or not.
1. Everyone is missing the upper city, not because the game is short, but because of all the quests ending there. 3. I always want good ending 4,5,16. I always want fleshed out companions,esp evil ones 2.,6.-8,14.,15,18.,26 everyone want proper evil playthrough and alternative to tadpole - Rafael is how it could work - someone else to work with against the 3 avatars, because in blood wars I think Rafael was against Zariel, so that would be a whole new plot, and a cool one 9,12,14,27 - I miss all of those stories, Shadowland is very barren, Raven queen could make it more interesting, but the darkness is quite depressing, so it would have to be partially different. And I miss joining Society of Brilliance and do some quests with them. 9,19. Personally first I didn't like reveal of guardian true nature, because it felt disconnected from the whole story, but after I saw Daisy scenes compilation video, I'm glad it was cut off. The idea wasn't bad, but it was too much personal for me, almost annoying. But if the plot would be - tadpole trying to trick you into taking it, being with absolute and then guardian would come trying to make you independent, that would be interesting 20. I don't care that much 21. I don't do romances 22. It seems like with the last minute shift of the story it is slightly incomplete. 23 everyone want companions to talk more IMO if it is well written 10,11,24,25,28, I don't know how I would feel about it. 29 I saw the video and it was long and tedious - all of those endings - I have to admit, I closed it, but I guess it could be there for those who care. 30,31 - I miss that - just an upgrade crafting would be enough, but it is boring to buy/find armors with only +1 enhancement and a lot of armors remaining undiscovered, because you don't kill or pickpocket. So I wish there would be more of armors somehow.
Id have no issues waiting a year to get the Upper City back.
In general, any cut content that did not make it because of time and funds I would be glad to get at a later time. Let them work on the quality and patch it in sometime in the future.
I agree with previous commenters saying that people are less upset that the amount of content is less than expected, but more about how you can extremely easily tell that some quests were scrapped halfway through.
For example the Necromancy of Thay
immediately catches Astarions interest. You can get a cutscene of him reading it, but nothing happens further. On the table in the cellar where you find it, research notes mention "true resurrection" spell and how the book may have the answers. Then in Sorcerous Sundries vault you find a book which is supposed to help you decode the Necromancy, but nothing happens if you do read it? Kind of feels like curing Astarion was supposed to be an alternative ending for him.
.
Similarly with Karlach
her second engine fix is said to not be a cure and to find Dammon later. The entire problem is the metal making up the chamber runs too hot outside of hell. A steel watcher tells her that her engine is faulty and an obsolete model. Some steel watchers drop improved infernal iron which could easily be used as the material able to withstand the heat. Alternatively, if the steel watch engines were designed by Gondians, they could give her the upgrade, provided you rescue them.
Wow i didnt know any of that. Daisy sounds soo much better than emperor, so much juicy villain potential (the whole emperor thing is a huge fail. Especially the reveal of who he really is. I was like WTF, not in a good sense).
I reached the level cap very soon into act 3, having 60+ hours more to play. If they add upper city, they must raise the cap or completely overhaul the xp gains throughout the game, something like 4 levels per act.
The Daisy change is like the biggest '' sometimes the audience is wrong '' thing ever imo. If people really didn't take the hint then I wish they had just added a '' lover '' tag or something in big bold letters so you couldn't possibly miss it ( something tells me people would find a way to miss it anyways lmao ).
To be honest, the only issue I had with the Daisy implementation that we had in EA was that it took your character away from you and told you what you thought and felt about something - it was creepy and rapey, but that alone wasn't the problem; the problem was that outside of it the game rules that you found it enticing and appealing and alluring and tempting and you had no capability of telling anyone otherwise... so it left you in a situation where you might repeatedly reject the advances of the character, and have them continue to move on you and make increasing degrees of physical contact despite your continued rejections... and then to have the game turn around and go "yeah, you liked that." The issue would have been easily solved if they'd given players more opportunity to define to the game and to other characters, how they felt about the situation, and note that they felt it was intrusive and violating, if they indeed felt so. This feedback was given, in great volume, but Larian decided that the correct change was to rip it all out and write something entirely new at the last minute.
To be honest, the only issue I had with the Daisy implementation that we had in EA was that it took your character away from you and told you what you thought and felt about something - it was creepy and rapey, but that alone wasn't the problem; the problem was that outside of it the game rules that you found it enticing and appealing and alluring and tempting and you had no capability of telling anyone otherwise... so it left you in a situation where you might repeatedly reject the advances of the character, and have them continue to move on you and make increasing degrees of physical contact despite your continued rejections... and then to have the game turn around and go "yeah, you liked that." The issue would have been easily solved if they'd given players more opportunity to define to the game and to other characters, how they felt about the situation, and note that they felt it was intrusive and violating, if they indeed felt so. This feedback was given, in great volume, but Larian decided that the correct change was to rip it all out and write something entirely new at the last minute.
Given how your character had to be "creepy and rapey" for Daisy to appear (albeit telepathically), it was only fair, all things considered.
Double standards are a pervasive thing, aren't they? Meanwhile the Emperor does his damndnest to initiate tentacle hentai without any prompting or previous signs of trust/intimacy from the PC, but somehow THAT is perfectly fine and acceptable and you are a bigot(tm) for thinking otherwise.
Care to elucidate on that, Dex? I'm not sure what you mean or what you're referring to.
No double standard here, Brainer - Like I said - the rapey element of it wasn't, on its own, the problem. The problem was how the game handled your character after it, forcing interpretations onto you and telling you how you felt about it. The game can force anything it wants on my character, if it deems it appropriate, but it does not get to tell me how I feel about those violations; that is the thing that made it less than acceptable. There is no double standard - yes, I had to use the tadpole to impress upon a goblin the mental sense that I was to be obeyed when it was otherwise not inclined to do so... but that did not come with a helping of me telling the game that the goblin enjoyed being brain-raped by me. I didn't tell the goblin that it liked it, and force the goblin to agree that it did.
I've not played the post-release content that replaced the daisy system yet, and I can't comment on it - I was talking only about what was wrong with the Daisy system we were first presented with, and the problem was the game intruding on our right to define how we felt about certain things, at a personal character level; they could even have intimated that we had those feelings of joy and love and euphoria, coming off the encounter, as long as it was made clear that those were external feelings coming over us from an external source, that we could define for ourselves, in the now, afterwards, how welcome or unwelcome they were... at least, that was the primary problem I personally had with it... Because personally, I don't have a single character who, if she asks a stranger a question about who they are, and they respond by invading her personal space and touching her intimately... and who, if she then tells to leave her alone and not touch her, responds be enacting even closer physical contact, and further intimate touches... is ever going to come away from that and go "Yeah, that was hot and I was super tempted by the hotness and allure of it"... but that is what the game forced us to do. I would not have had a problem with the Daisy system at all (at least as much as we saw of it at least), if I'd been able to come away from that and say "No, that was uncomfortable and I didn't like it." We couldn't.
I always thought Daisy was the entity inside the artifact as opposed to the tadpole. I even made a theory thread about it during the early access period. All the early signs pointed toward that, imo.
That said, I don't like the Emperor approach. Don't get me wrong, I do like that the entity is inside the artifact and not the tadpole. I just don't like the choice of who the entity inside the artifact is. In fairness, though, I acknowledge how tough it must have been writing that part of the story and settling on something. They wanted to be surprising, but still keep everything setting appropriate for WotC.
*
I think concerns about the game telling you how you felt were overblown.
For one, it's only worth discussing if there are specific examples to analyze.
But my point would be simply this: we're talking about psionics. A tadpole inside a head. It's not a far stretch that the story might sometimes tell you that you "feel" this certain way, even if it comes as a surprise to you. There's a level of mental and emotional manipulation going on. If anything, there should have been more of that.
I've been working on compiling cut content datamined from various sources and while I had a ton of this information in my other thread I decided to forego the "review" or the complaints and simply list off the cut content that has been confirmed thus far.
1) The Upper City - The most obvious one. Swen himself talked about the "Affluent Upper City" just 2 weeks before launch and described as it being fully explorable and yet it's very noticeably absent from the final game.
2) Shar Worship - In EA the player was able to select Shar as a diety which game with it's own unique dialogue trees, especially when interacting with Shadowheart as a fellow Shar worshiper. Despite the fact that voice lines were datamined indicating this had functions well into Act 2, it was cut when the game launched.
3) Karlach's Ending - Datamined content shows that not only did Karlach have a full ending where her infernal engine was fixed and that she survived, but that most of it was fully voiced and complete. However it required triggers from the Upper City portion of Baldur's Gate and when that was cut, so was Karlach's Act 3 storyline. What we have behind have been confirmed to be Karlach's "fail state" endings which were meant to only play if the player neglected her quest chain.
4) Minthara's Story - Minthara was meant to have a much deeper story, including a pregnancy. These were likely cut due to Minthara being a late stage addition to our roster but dialogue lines remain in the games files that show that not only did Minthara have a lot more content for herself but your other companions had a lot more to say about it.
5) Halsin's Story - Another late addition to the roster, Halsin was originally intended to have a great deal more endgame content involving the Druid circle, but this appears to have been cut more early on than some of the other items thus far.
6) Raphael the Merchant - Originally Raphael was meant to be a fully viable option to remove your tadpole, in fact the "Soul Coin" items that you collect in game where originally meant to be a powerful alternative currency accepted only by Raphael in exchange for possibly retrieving your soul as well as a long list of incredibly powerful artifacts from the House of Hope that would be sold by Raphael himself.
7) Avernus - An entire area of the game. Avernus was meant to be fully explorable and of similar size to the Underdark Area of Act 1. It would be a source not only for Soul Coins but other rare materials, highly difficult fights, and special content for Karlach.
8) Tav the Dark Urge - A lot of people were both surprised and excited to see the addition of The Dark Urge origin as the Bhaalspawn/Evil option that was missing from EA. As it turns out, Tav was originally the Dark Urge and they were all one origin. Tav was meant to be Bhaalspawn and separating the two seems to be what caused the narrative divide between the Dead Three storyline and the Mindflayer plot.
9) Omeluum's Ring - In the EA version of the game this ring would block your Tadpole entirely. It could not grow, it could not grow stronger, and you could not use Illithid powers. In the launch version this ring prevents you from being charmed despite Omeluum still stating that it blocked the influence of the Elder Brain/Absolute.
10) Bhaal and Orin versus the Creche - An entire Act 2 battle was cut in which Bhaal's forces, led by Orin, attacked the Githyanki creche which led to a fight where you either sided with one or the other or had a massive 3-way fight on your hands.
11) Orin and the Dragon - Orin was meant to corrupt a Githyank red dragon, leading to a boss fight against a Slayer-formesque Dragon.
12) The Hag Coven in Act 2 and 3 - You may notice that accepting Auntie Ethels help in the first Act can lead to a negative effect when fighting Hags. You may also notice that despite Auntie Ethel having letters from other Hags in her basement, she is the only one you encounter. Originally there was meant to be a full three act story involving the Hag coven including the mysterious "M" who seems to have been their leader.
13) Epilogues - Full epilogue cutscenes have been datamined that varied greatly depending on your choices. These were the "17K ending variations" that Larian told us about, yet they are completely absent in the final game leading only to a fade to black scene at the end of the game.
14) Cazador's Story - Originally Cazador was meant to play a huge role in the Upper City of Baldur's Gate, including being a huge political power. Datamined content also shows that originally he was meant to be a potential ally in the final push against the Absolute.
15) Banite Cultists - The game features both Bhaal and Myrkul cultists rather heavily but Bane is reduced to Gortash alone. Despite the fact that they had full and finished assets for both armor, weapons, and some events the Banites were cut from the final game.
16) Act 1 Minsc - Minsc was meant to be recruited at the end of Act 1 but was cut and pushed back into the later game.
17) Dialogue and Events - Even from Act 1 itself, thousands of lines of dialogue and companion events were cut from the final game. Some of them were even fully voiced and ready to be implemented in game but also referenced other content that ended up on the cutting room floor.
18) Bhaal, Myrkul and Bane as Deities - Cleric's were meant to be fully able to select the Dead Three from the list of Deities. There were even special dialogues in game for player's who played as a Paladin and then multiclassed at least 1 level of Cleric on top and selected one of the Dead Three.
19) Daisy - It's not a secret that Daisy was cut from the game after the last EA release and replaced with "The Guardian." Originally Daisy was representative of the tadpole in your head, not the Emperor, and would attempt to seduce your character into staying in the meadow by the river with her forever. A happy life with an imaginary dream lover while your body underwent ceramorphosis and was lost to you forever. Daisy was such an important part of the plot that both of the games theme songs "Down by The River" and "The Power" are based entirely upon Daisy. Datamined content also shows there was originally an ending where players would embrace a romance with Daisy and give themselves over to the parasite, forever leaving their individual consciousness "down by the river" with Daisy.
20) Companions and the Illithid Worm - Originally companions were meant to accept or refuse Illithid gifts independently of the player choices. You could of course influence them through dialogue to decide who did and did not take the offered gifts, but ultimately it would be based on individual characters choices. This can still be seen in game as a bug when companions will awake after a long rest and claim to have received a gift from their Guardian and yet will have gained no actual power.
21) Romancing Jaheira - Apparently you were originally meant to have limited options to romance and sleep with Jaheira but these were cut last minute. It's unclear why.
22) Tadpole's and Consequences - There were originally meant to be severe consequences from using the Illithid powers too heavily and investing too much into the Tadpole powers. This seems obvious in game and yet ultimately in the release version goes nowhere as the ending is reduced to about 4 choices made in the last leg of the game. You can use all tadpoles or none and receive the same ending.
23) Act 3 Companion Dialogue - If you've noticed that companions have much less to say at the end of their journey it's because thousands of lines of dialogue were cut from companions in the final Act and all for various reasons. This also seems to be the source of most of the companion bugs that only appear in the final act as they're still trying to trigger events that simply no longer exist.
24) Multiple Cutscenes - There are multiple cutscenes that were present for Act 1 that are missing from the final game.
25) The Nautolid - A large portion of the Nautolid tutorial zone was cut in the final release, including cutscenes, dialogue, areas, and an optional fight with 2 injured Imps. This was likely cut for the sake of brevity more than anything.
26) Mol and Raphael - Isn't it odd how Mol will just escape from Raphael on her own and say it was "easy?" Well it turns out that's because they cut whatever the final leg of that quest was meant to be, instead they allow Mol to escape on her own which more or less skips to the end and around the cut content.
27) The Raven Queen - There was an entire second part of the storyline that was cut early on.
28) The Voice of Bane - It's possible to have a brief conversation with Bane, but it remains incomplete as the dialogue is unvoiced for some reason.
29) The Wither's Epilogue - WIther's was meant to narrate an epilogue for the players, to what extent is unsure but instead WIther's is left with a single event in the entire game when post-credit's he can be seen revealing himself as Jergal and mocking a mural of the Dead Three.
30) Crafting - An early access build contained a crafting bench and it seems originally we were meant to have full access to crafting/enchanting gear of our own through certain systems. While these were cut, the items for them were not. This is why items like ingots, gemstones, woods, and other material items appear in game with no use other than vendor trash.
31) Helia - The Halfling Werewolf that I sadly forgot was cut from the game.
32) Belts - There is an item slot in game for belts, not a single belt is present in the game as an item.
Now, I appreciate that some of it isn't necessarily relevant anymore - I thought Wyll was more interesting in EA as his darker side made him less flat, but that's my opinion. However the feedback is obvious. I'd have happily waited 6 months more to get this in the game.
Amazing, just found this thread and there is so much stuff in here that I sensed missing since the release. I am curious it's there no interview with Swen or any executive at Larian who can offer more details or explain if we will ever have the cut content? Checking Swen's Twitter he seems to be happy with the paid reviews and went happily on a holiday!
"Checking Swen's Twitter he seems to be happy with the paid reviews and went happily on a holiday!" Well i guess we have the answer here guys.. forgot about cut content.. i just want a Better ending at Least, kinda of a Shame we will never see some of those things.. but At Least Gave us a Ending just That is asking too much ?! (and im not Joking if yu still not Beat the Game Prepare yourself.. i bet some of yu will get the same feeling i get.. so far 600,700 in and not proud of it anymore.)
Larian did not had to pay anything, the rabid bear sex fanboys who attacked anyone who didn't rate BG3 the best game ever (see Eurogamer who dared to give 4/5) ensured that it was suicide not to overhype the game.
It of course helped that Larian held back the test samples for so long that testers could not reach the bugged and broken part of the game before release.
The EA Wyll at least had something going for him, and I was looking forward to where his plot could go. The lack of ties to Ravenguard apart from respect on Wyll's part worked better too, in my opinion, since despite being his father, he barely reacts to the PC and Wyll romancing each other and plays an ultimately minor role in the plot.
Meanwhile Shadowheart maintains presence throughout all three acts, still, though, the removal of the Shar worship option in the full game is a freaking disappointment (although, given how we can't even choose not to be Baldurian as most races, I suppose it's little surprise since it would have had to account for the PC likely being the member of the same cloister).
My personal gripe with the more "evil"-coded companions, though, is that:
...they all have a "redemption arc" of some kind, making it feel like the writers were worried that the characters will lose in popularity or appeal if they are unapologetically "bad".
- Shadowheart's background is as predictable as it gets, - Astarion is only like that because he was abused by his master, - Lae'zel is easily swayed towards Orpheus despite maintaining her loyalty to Vlaakith even after an attempt on her life (the whole creche section was really disappointing narratively...), - Wyll no longer displays his prejudices and hatred towards what he percieves as ultimately evil safe for Karlach which gets swept under the rug practically right away, - and Minthara was all sunshine and kittens all along despite a Lolthian upbringing (and an "evil" route for her effectively means her living with a "false" identity, rather than embracing that perhaps she is cruel, violent, and fanatical to go with an evil PC - although, given how underdeveloped the evil path turned out (just like people were rightfully worried it will), it seems like the game really doesn't want you to actually play a villain except in a very specific way or go full CE and murder everyone indiscriminately.
Larian had a companion who was a tyrant-in-the-making in their previous game and he fulfilled his role well enough. There were Morrigans, Fenrises, Bishops, Durances and many others who could be thoroughly morally bankrupt or prejudiced or insufferable but they were well-made characters and interacting with them felt meaningful. Here I wasn't sure what the approval meter was even for, except romance - I assume it affects the difficulty of dialogue checks? Because nobody seems particularly keen on betraying you, unless perhaps you REALLY piss them off.
...they all have a "redemption arc" of some kind, making it feel like the writers were worried that the characters will lose in popularity or appeal if they are unapologetically "bad".
The sad thing is
Larian is probably correct with that assumption considering that the vast majority of talk about the companions is simping.
The entire cast of BG3 is rather shallow and just there for various fantasies to cover all "tastes". Take that away and there is nothing much left. And sadly that works. So say goodbye to complex or deep characters, after BG3s success everyone else will start to lift their NPCs straight out of harem visual novels.
And not only the companions were dumbed down in the last minute, the plot was too with the addition of the Emperor which you can't really get away from until the very end in a ME3 style button press and consequence free tadpoles.
Larian is probably correct with that assumption considering that the vast majority of talk about the companions is simping.
If only it were just companions. The amount of attention towards characters like Sazza, Kagha (of all people), Dammon (who got a heavy Marty Stu treatment in the full game), Gortash, and Orin is positively Freudian.
Heck,
I didn't exactly need to know about Raphael's bedroom antics and preferences, of all people, and it makes it difficult to take the character seriously after you run into Haarlep.
I am also honestly surprised the game has the dullest brothel in all of Larian's games, all things considered.
Wow, I had no idea. Until I found this forum, I thought I had a bad case of end-game letdown when I finished my first playthrough. I knew it had to end, but it was just so lacking. I thought there would be more, like the party Wyll wanted to have. Or more to the final scene with the companion my character romanced. Actually, when I think about Episode 3 in comparison to the first two it's rather bland. Episodes 1 & 2 were so amazing, Episode 3 should have been given the same love and attention. I hope it will be vastly improved with this promised patch they talk about, or the "definitive edition" thing Larian has done to other games. I just hope we won't have to wait a year for improvements. I've got a few quests left in my second playthrough, but I am reluctant to dive back in to experience that disappointing end again.
In addition to OPs post saw on reddit some datamined breadcrumbs, some companions would've romanced each other, eg. Astarion with Karlach. Now that's an interesting combo.
In addition to OPs post saw on reddit some datamined breadcrumbs, some companions would've romanced each other, eg. Astarion with Karlach. Now that's an interesting combo.
omg that would be both incredibly wrong and amazing!
Well Guys Just Like i Said Before i really think yu all should Temper the Expectations becouse i dont really beleave that we will ever gona see Half of the Cut Content. The Way this game Are at the Moment they will just Try to Fix It. (maybe give us some Party or Slides at the ending for the Hero Path and Thats It..) But even this Stuff that i beleave they will do i dont put my Trust that they will deliver yu know ? i just Hope that at Least they Fix this.. but i dont Trust nor beleave in then in Anything anymore.. (and im saying this becouse of the Way Things are Going.. they are called at the Moment the Industry Changer yu know.. evrybody is Praising then Nom Stop while the game its unplayable for almost all players around the world and they just went Silence Maybe becouse they are on Vacation like others are saying.. but in my Opinion they are just Waiting for the Storm to Stop, so they can make a Move to keep been called the Best.. thats how things are nowadays.)
So, the industry is gonna adapt the standard of fumbling around in EA for ~3 years to then take a 90-degree turn half-a-year or so from the release date, going on a marketing rampage that is nothing like what the game was previously advertised as, quickly cutting away unfinished stuff and stitching together last-minute replacements for things that aren't quite up to snuff?...
...I mean, it's not that different from how it seems to work with the big studios nowadays as it is, safe perhaps for the aggressive promotion of the in-game sex and how it used intimacy coordinators (for what, exactly? Nothing happens in most scenes, and many don't account for your character's gender properly anyway) and how you can create whatever character you want for it all (as in, most non-mechanical choices in character creation amount to bugger all, identity and "body type" especially, because all the game does is occasionally acknowledge the former but without making it matter in any way when it comes to content or choices).
As for what can salvage BG3 in a hypothetical "director's cut" - I'd say they should...
...cut the Emperor out entirely and rewrite the plot, removing the butchered lore (the illithids, people turning at the snap of the finger, and especially everything tied to Balduran which came out of absolutely nowhere and serves NO purpose). Also allow for a proper Absolutist path to be followed instead of railroading the player down a very specific route. Restoring the old Wyll is probably too much to ask, but still - he was a far better character in EA.
...cut the Emperor out entirely and rewrite the plot, removing the butchered lore (the illithids, people turning at the snap of the finger, and especially everything tied to Balduran which came out of absolutely nowhere and serves NO purpose). Also allow for a proper Absolutist path to be followed instead of railroading the player down a very specific route. Restoring the old Wyll is probably too much to ask, but still - he was a far better character in EA.
not think about return old Wyll, but i dont want see just a good guy. I would like to say the same thing about Astarion spawn, Halsin. About Emperor completely agree
Originally Posted by Thorvic
Well Guys Just Like i Said Before i really think yu all should Temper the Expectations becouse i dont really beleave that we will ever gona see Half of the Cut Content. The Way this game Are at the Moment they will just Try to Fix It. (maybe give us some Party or Slides at the ending for the Hero Path and Thats It..) But even this Stuff that i beleave they will do i dont put my Trust that they will deliver yu know ? i just Hope that at Least they Fix this.. but i dont Trust nor beleave in then in Anything anymore.. (and im saying this becouse of the Way Things are Going.. they are called at the Moment the Industry Changer yu know.. evrybody is Praising then Nom Stop while the game its unplayable for almost all players around the world and they just went Silence Maybe becouse they are on Vacation like others are saying.. but in my Opinion they are just Waiting for the Storm to Stop, so they can make a Move to keep been called the Best.. thats how things are nowadays.)
I want to belive just a little. But i think you right, when i see new pat?h i just disappointed....
They used to have a Minthara pregnancy. Go nuts with that, give the other female companions a pregnancy (Lae'zel dodges this but offer to raise the Githyanki egg Ptaris with you), and male companions can knock up female Tav/Dark Urge. Babies for everyone!
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/0pzr21b.png)
At least Larian might actually add more to this game. RDR2 got dropped as soon as it was released, sadly.
