Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Concerning Alfira (Dark Urge Spoilers)

I actually liked it. I thought it was powerful,

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So there is another outcome that even has voice lines associated with it, but its a bit convoluted:

Using any variation of disguise self should have the same effect a hirelings but without all the extra unnecessary steps and losing the gold. And you might as well let the Dark Urge do the deed with to the replacement to get the cloak because really there's no reason not to.

Good catch on the disguise if that works for preventing reputation loss and you have it. Hadn't considered it when I was mucking about.

I haven't tested it on this particular scenario but it should work...generally speaking regardless of origin or anything else when you kill NPCs in BG3 you can't use speak with the dead on them because they refuse to talk to their killers but if you disguise self before killing them they'll talk to you because they don't know it was you who killed them.

Do people really care that much about Alfira? I actually like that scene because

I share the same feelings, to me the entire scene felt like punishment for playing Dark Urge due to complete lack of roleplaying choice.

I sent feedback to Larian directly about the way they've designed this scene and hope they introduce the two other outcomes in a legitimate roleplay manner, because locking them behind metagaming is just pure bull****.

What makes me angry about the scene is that they have 3 different outcomes for it. All fully planned out, voice acted and written that go well beyond the camp scene itself, yet they've locked them both behind metagaming and taken away the player's choice in roleplaying the scene entirely. Made me delete my Dark Urge playthrough initially, but then I started a new one 30 hours later and just metagamed this crap scene. Then I got even more furious when I saw just how much more there is to the scene through the metagamed outcomes.

An example;

What I suggested in my feedback is;

• Alfira should only come to the camp if the player previously met her and helped her
• If they haven't, Quil then arrives at the camp instead
• If the player decides to make them leave, they have to pass a hard check against the urge to do so or they die

This way the player would not have to metagame to actually have some roleplaying choices for this scene and would be able to explore Dark Urge's story properly.

I am very happy if the game provides feedback on attempts to save Alfira, and perhaps some kind of Easter eggs, if the player knows in advance how further events will develop and acts unusually.

Don't really agree. The game shouldn't actively encourage metagaming.

Agreed. But they could improve our companion's reaction a bit. These guys are way more trusting than I'd be in that situation lol

Naturally having ways to creatively approach a situation and solve it differently than expected is always highly appreciated and wonderful, as it gives the feeling that developers care about the little details and makes the game so much better. BUT... it has to feel natural and the player has to have a chance to accidentally discover it or access it through legitimate means through the natural flow of the gameplay.

Unfortunately that is not the case here because it is impossible for the player to legitimately ever experience this scene's 2 out of 3 outcomes, as they are locked behind some extremely unnatural behavior, metagaming and even worse savescumming.

I say again ...

This is not an encouragement of metagaming, but a reaction to it. It should be, because many players will want to see "what if ..." and should see something. It will definitely be, given the replay value of the game.

The reaction can be in the form of secret content, Easter eggs, punishment, breaking the fourth wall, whatever.

This is how I took it, too. I think the original set of events is the intended course that sets the tone of your character - considering what you get out of it. Personally I think it is a great and important scene.

On the other hand, it was really nice to have an acknowledgement of what I was trying to do in the end. Larian has always put a focus on finding ways that players might break their games, and then instead of "fixing" them they add an acknowledgement that echo "We're going to allow this, but we know what you did. Here's a small reward for finding this.". Their previous titles are full of acknowledging unintended outcomes - It is a feature of their work I find really valuable.

I don't really agree with the pushback on this pivotal plot moment, though.

• Astarion is a vampire. No matter what you choose in the game this is an immutable fact that your party has no choice but to contend with.
• Durge is *you know*. No matter what you choose in the game this is an immutable fact that your party has no choice but to contend with.
• Gale is *you know*, and blah blah blah

You are given a lot of leeway with how you approach things, but origin characters have always had set in stone traits that you can't budge. Durge is NOT Tav+, it's an origin story that comes with its own beautifully dysfunctional baggage - just like the rest of the cast.