Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion SPOILERS I miss old Astarion and his arc

I need to express one big dissapointment I have with the game. I’m going to refer to EA Astarion version and his backstory that was apparently cut (but is still present in the artbook). There will be also some spoilers to the full game story.


So: I’m aware that this in unpopular opinion and there are mostly two groups of players: those who adore him and love to help him with his trauma, and those who hate him and kill instantly (I’m exaggerating a bit but I think you know what I mean). And I’m in the group which mourns his corrupted magistrate arc.

Don’t get me wrong, I think his trauma plot is one of the best narrative parts of the whole Baldur’s Gate 3 - if not the best. Well written, nice, interesting psychology and objectively very good.
But I really, really hoped for corrupted, disgraced nobleman who lost everything because his own greed and who now must deal with it - if someone didn’t hear about it, this is what Swen said 3 years ago about Astarion:

„A disgraced nobleman who used his position as a local magistrate to serve a vampire clan by feeding them prisoners, he was eventually too corrupt even for them and was effectively sent to serve as the personal slave of a powerful vampire.”

I wouldn’t even mind to be able to „fix him”, but I imagined it would be rather letting him understand what a hypocrite he is. I wanted to see a powerful, selfish person in the place of those who he harmed. A person who slowly realises he kind of deserved what he got.
I also wanted Cazador to be more interesting. Cruel, evil - sure, but not that one-dimentional and rather pathetic character who’s only function in the game is to be a punching bag the player can joyfully kill with nothing but pure satisfaction. I imagined he particularly enjoys tormenting Astarion, because he understands his ironic position. An abuser who abuses another abuser.

Imagine you and your party breaks into his palace (or crypt) only to learn from Cazador, that Astarion isn’t only the victim. You’re angry, maybe a bit confused, maybe you just hate him more than before, but your vampire companion could already changed, at least partially, and the choice to help him isn’t as obvious as it is now. I suspect it could look like this in the earlier phase of game development - lines like „So Cazador was around just when you were bleeding to death on the street? What a coincidence” or „Some Gurs attacked me because of my decree” strongly suggest some cut content the player was supposed to discover later.

A manipulative abuser who is an obvious victim at the same time - it was a fascinating combination and a first and main reason I was so hyped for BG3. I really wanted to see what can happen with him from this startpoint. Now Astarion is much more sympathetic (although some players still think he is an annoying asshole, I know ;)) and when you think about it, you really can’t blame him for what he became. In the current version of the game he is just a victim - Cazador forced him to become who he is, he had no choice. The old Astarion was actually responsible for the evil he commited in the past.

I don't know if this is a me problem, since lots of people have said he's one of the better villains.

Still, pathetic? Yeah, that is absolutely what I would call him. I expected a lot more from the Cazador/Astarion confrontation.

I feel like calling that EA Astarion is a bit misleading. From what I seen, his story plays out pretty much the same in act one as it did in EA. What you're referring to, while interesting, was as far as we know, only ever an idea they had. This isn't like Gale where his story in EA was really different.

Basing on datamined EA notes, he was much more manipulative and cynical (they even changed his facial animation and voice actor interpretation for the full game and cut some scenes that was present in EA), but EA is less important than the whole dealing with vampires when he was alive. It's completely absent in the game. You don't say such things about the character if it's not important for their story.

I miss the old Astarion, straight from the 'Go Astarion
Chop up the soul Astarion, set on his goals Astarion
I hate the new Astarion, the bad mood Astarion
The always rude Astarion, spaz in the news Astarion
I miss the sweet Astarion, chop up the beats Astarion
I gotta to say at that time I'd like to meet Astarion
See I invented Astarion, it wasn't any Astarions
And now I look and look around and there's so many Astarions
I used to love Astarion, I used to love Astarion
I even had the pink polo, I thought I was Astarion
What if Astarion made a song about Astarion
Called "I Miss The Old Astarion, " man that would be so Astarion
That's all it was Astarion, we still love Astarion
And I love you like Astarion loves Astarion

I feel Astarion was one of the bigger but not so obvious victims of whatever led Larian to basically flatten everything and make it less moody and more heroic. He isn't quite Gale where he's a very different character, but it feels like they basically removed Astarion's edge and made him duller than he was. It's a shame. Could've been a victim of the removal of the upper city and whatever role Cazador was going to play there.

I think this would be interesting if they implemented it, I also don't think it would be completely impossible for them to do in a definitive edition or something, because as far as I can see in-game, nothing about Astarion's character directly conflicts with this narrative about what was going on with him before he was a vampire. The game doesn't really talk at all about what was going on with Astarion before as-is. It's possible it was cut, but the hole wasn't really patched with much else, and could be put back without much effort.

Correct me if I'm wrong but currently in-game, about Astarion's past we know:

It isn't too hard to imagine about the last point he possibly knows more than he's letting on, it's also completely possible that after that he really doesn't remember.

For me, it seems like all they would really have to do is add back in the Cazador explaining things dialogue, maybe some findables referencing it, and then the reactivity to that information, and everything would be as it was, except for the slight rewrite or softening of his EA character. It even seems to me like this might *still* be his backstory, it's just not said or talked about in the game. Which, leads me to my imagining it could be fairly easily added back.

I could totally be wrong, or misunderstanding something. Wouldn't be the first time lol. But maybe this makes you feel hopeful?

Edit: And that it's still in the art book? It seems likely that they are working on it like the rest of the stuff.

The art book isn't what they're working on at the moment, it's what they were working on before whatever big thing happened behind the scenes. For example, Daisy is in the artbook but the Guardian and Emperor are not. So, whatever changes took place, happened after the art book was finalised (and, presumably, printed if it comes in a hard copy.)

Oh, I understand. Still, the removal of this story-beat seems a little less final than the whole Daisy thing.

Yeah, I'm a little hopeful they will bring back Upper City and Cazador's missing part of the plot (dataminers found out he was going to give us quests and that he was a very important political figure), but at the same time I'm afraid to be hopeful For me it looks like they had something at least a bit different in mind, but after they cut the whole district they had to quickly change the story too (I mean, Cazador's palace looks like city walls, they obviously had to quickly move his lair to put in somewhere in the lower city). I'm afraid they would have to destroy what they already did in the current game and rearrange it, if you know what I mean - and I don't know if they would be ready for it. But maybe my theory is wrong.

Also, I've watched again youtube videos with EA Astarion scenes and he really was going to be a different character - this whole corrupted magistrate fitted him well back then. Now, like I said above, he seems much more sympathetic and I'm worried this evil past is not compatible with him anymore.

I really wish I'm wrong though.