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old hand
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OP
old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
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There are a lot of things a player can do on a second playthrough or load, knowing how the story has progressed, or using glitches.
For example, saving a tiefling bard while playing as Dark Urge, stealing a silver sword from Kythrak Voss in the first act, dealing with Divine Intervention abuse with a legendary weapon, attacking Orin in disguise, and so on.
Or, stealing Lathander's blood before talking to Valakith so that the magic of the artifact will save us from her Wish.
I don't mean encouraging metagaming, I mean REACT
Last edited by The Red Queen; 24/08/23 05:22 PM. Reason: Added spoiler tags
Thanks to Larian for Baldurs Gate 3 and the reaction to player feedback
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Volunteer Moderator
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Volunteer Moderator
Joined: Feb 2022
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Remember - spoiler tags if you're discussing plot points.
"You may call it 'nonsense' if you like, but I've heard nonsense, compared with which that would be as sensible as a dictionary!"
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: May 2019
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This is a very interesting point. I very strongly agree, in that even if this game gives me many choices at each decision-point, for me it seens that in every instance there is only one and exactly one (if that) of those many choices that I will consider to be acceptable given my very strong good-alignment preferences. And furthermore, to get that one "good" option, I often will need to have done something else first. So even if the game in general is very nonlinear, the perfectly good playthrough *is* very linear, where you have to do certain things in the game in a fixed sequence. So, ironically, this is the one cRPG that I will necessarily have to play *only* with a really well-detailed game guide/walkthrough helping me to metagame my choices and actions.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
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I wont click on the spoiler as im stillchalfway through my 1st game. But ive noticed the game already prevents metagaming. If you havent found information during your game the option to use that knowledge doesent present itself.
If you mean that everything is preplaced so we can cheese it....uh...yeah? Only way around that is via random encounters or having an actual DM stare deep in your soul as youre trying to metagame.
Both of those arent an option in the game.
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old hand
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OP
old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
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There is another place at the very beginning of the game, in the temple of Jergal, where we need a reaction to metagaming. The player can remove junk from the skeletons before they rise, and then they will fight with their bare hands. I think the game should somehow react to this action, 90% of those who do it know what will happen.
Thanks to Larian for Baldurs Gate 3 and the reaction to player feedback
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2020
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you could do pretty much any meta by accident without knowing it's got a metagaming reason to do it so having the game give a wink and a we see what you did there, would be weird?
Minthara is the best character and she NEEDS to be recruitable if you side with the grove! Also- I support the important thread in the suggestions: Let everyone in the Party Speak
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2020
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This is a very interesting point. I very strongly agree, in that even if this game gives me many choices at each decision-point, for me it seens that in every instance there is only one and exactly one (if that) of those many choices that I will consider to be acceptable given my very strong good-alignment preferences. And furthermore, to get that one "good" option, I often will need to have done something else first. So even if the game in general is very nonlinear, the perfectly good playthrough *is* very linear, where you have to do certain things in the game in a fixed sequence. So, ironically, this is the one cRPG that I will necessarily have to play *only* with a really well-detailed game guide/walkthrough helping me to metagame my choices and actions. Nah. If you've not played it yet and intend to, I would advise you not to spoil it for yourself by looking everything up in advance. Just go with your gut and make good (alignment) choices and you'll be fine.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2020
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This is a very interesting point. I very strongly agree, in that even if this game gives me many choices at each decision-point, for me it seens that in every instance there is only one and exactly one (if that) of those many choices that I will consider to be acceptable given my very strong good-alignment preferences. And furthermore, to get that one "good" option, I often will need to have done something else first. So even if the game in general is very nonlinear, the perfectly good playthrough *is* very linear, where you have to do certain things in the game in a fixed sequence. So, ironically, this is the one cRPG that I will necessarily have to play *only* with a really well-detailed game guide/walkthrough helping me to metagame my choices and actions. Nah. If you've not played it yet and intend to, I would advise you not to spoil it for yourself by looking everything up in advance. Just go with your gut and make good (alignment) choices and you'll be fine. No, he won't. If he chooses to let Wyll become duke, Karlach dies as the only way to convince her to seek salvation and a fix in Avernus is for Wyll to take her there or you romance her. Similar "good aligned" options also end up dooming many characters. If you elect to trust the Emperor as a good character because he's given you no reason to to doubt him, you end up not pursuing the hammer and Orpheus gets his brains eaten, while Hope remains a captive in Raphael's House. Other examples also exist, like making Myreena put down her husband, even though there's hope he may be revived.
Last edited by Zenith; 28/08/23 08:48 AM.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2020
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[quote=kanisatha]This is a very interesting point. I very strongly agree, in that even if this game gives me many choices at each decision-point, for me it seens that in every instance there is only one and exactly one (if that) of those many choices that I will consider to be acceptable given my very strong good-alignment preferences. And furthermore, to get that one "good" option, I often will need to have done something else first. So even if the game in general is very nonlinear, the perfectly good playthrough *is* very linear, where you have to do certain things in the game in a fixed sequence. So, ironically, this is the one cRPG that I will necessarily have to play *only* with a really well-detailed game guide/walkthrough helping me to metagame my choices and actions. Nah. If you've not played it yet and intend to, I would advise you not to spoil it for yourself by looking everything up in advance. Just go with your gut and make good (alignment) choices and you'll be fine. No, he won't. If he chooses to let Wyll become duke, Karlach dies as the only way to convince her to seek salvation and a fix in Avernus is for Wyll to take her there or you romance her. Similar "good aligned" options also end up dooming many characters. If you elect to trust the Emperor as a good character because he's given you no reason to to doubt him, you end up not pursuing the hammer and Orpheus gets his brains eaten, while Hope remains a captive in Raphael's House. Other examples also exist, like making Myreena put down her husband, even though there's hope he may be revived. Inevitable in any game where your actions have meaningful consequences. Many people argue their aren’t enough of those as it is. I disagree with your examples (big spoilers, I advise certain people on this thread not to read): Karlach made it clear multiple times she’d rather die than go back to Avernus. That is very sad, but still very much a good character ending. It’s not like you’re forced to murder her or anything. Just because a different outcome is possible under different circumstances doesn’t negate a highly good alignment playthrough.
It’s perfectly clear how important Orpheus is to the Githyanki. The emperor appears perfectly happy keep him prisoner forever, so I’d call that good reason to be suspicious at least (as if being an actual mindflayer wasn’t enough). After refusing Raphael’s deal (which I imagine anyone hoping for the best ending would do) Lae’zel suggests stealing it, which would seem an obvious option if only to have a backup plan at that point. Plus you need it to free Hope, and a strongly good character probably wouldn’t leave her to rot.
As for Myreena, Conner is probably a lost cause. There’s no indication that he can saved. Certainly if you do come to that conclusion, the game won’t tell you you made the wrong choice. Regardless, would you really encourage people to spoil the entire story for themselves to get the absolutely optimal outcome, when just playing the game normally as a strongly good character would probably work out mostly the same?
Last edited by Dagless; 28/08/23 10:03 AM.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: May 2019
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[quote=kanisatha]This is a very interesting point. I very strongly agree, in that even if this game gives me many choices at each decision-point, for me it seens that in every instance there is only one and exactly one (if that) of those many choices that I will consider to be acceptable given my very strong good-alignment preferences. And furthermore, to get that one "good" option, I often will need to have done something else first. So even if the game in general is very nonlinear, the perfectly good playthrough *is* very linear, where you have to do certain things in the game in a fixed sequence. So, ironically, this is the one cRPG that I will necessarily have to play *only* with a really well-detailed game guide/walkthrough helping me to metagame my choices and actions. Nah. If you've not played it yet and intend to, I would advise you not to spoil it for yourself by looking everything up in advance. Just go with your gut and make good (alignment) choices and you'll be fine. No, he won't. If he chooses to let Wyll become duke, Karlach dies as the only way to convince her to seek salvation and a fix in Avernus is for Wyll to take her there or you romance her. Similar "good aligned" options also end up dooming many characters. If you elect to trust the Emperor as a good character because he's given you no reason to to doubt him, you end up not pursuing the hammer and Orpheus gets his brains eaten, while Hope remains a captive in Raphael's House. Other examples also exist, like making Myreena put down her husband, even though there's hope he may be revived. Inevitable in any game where your actions have meaningful consequences. Many people argue their aren’t enough of those as it is. I disagree with your examples (big spoilers, I advise certain people on this thread not to read): Karlach made it clear multiple times she’d rather die than go back to Avernus. That is very sad, but still very much a good character ending. It’s not like you’re forced to murder her or anything. Just because a different outcome is possible under different circumstances doesn’t negate a highly good alignment playthrough.
It’s perfectly clear how important Orpheus is to the Githyanki. The emperor appears perfectly happy keep him prisoner forever, so I’d call that good reason to be suspicious at least (as if being an actual mindflayer wasn’t enough). After refusing Raphael’s deal (which I imagine anyone hoping for the best ending would do) Lae’zel suggests stealing it, which would seem an obvious option if only to have a backup plan at that point. Plus you need it to free Hope, and a strongly good character probably wouldn’t leave her to rot.
As for Myreena, Conner is probably a lost cause. There’s no indication that he can saved. Certainly if you do come to that conclusion, the game won’t tell you you made the wrong choice. Regardless, would you really encourage people to spoil the entire story for themselves to get the absolutely optimal outcome, when just playing the game normally as a strongly good character would probably work out mostly the same? Sorry but this is not at all convincing. @Zenith is correct. For me, it is not just about me making good-aligned choices. It is very much about my good-aligned choices producing positive results/outcomes that satisfy my expectations when I made those (original) choices. It is very unfortunate, but I just can't see myself playing this game without extensive metagaming, because at multiple points I would end up being very angry, yes literally angry, at the outcomes from the game such that I would want to put my fist through my display. And *that* would be very bad and something I'd definitely want and need to avoid.
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