Originally Posted by mrfuji3
Originally Posted by Rack
There was an old maxim about characters as they progressed. Linear fighters, quadratic wizards. Wizard spells increased in power at all levels while fighters just got flat power increases. Keeping spells flat in power unless upcast and reducing their spell slot progression was the way to make sure wizards weren't just better than fighters at everything while keeping general power more measured at the top end of the curve.
Hmmm I'm not sure that the (limited) scaling of leveled spells significantly counts toward the "quadratic" power progression. I'd say that mostly comes from the obtaining of new & more powerful spells, an increased number of spell slots per day, and the various metamagics. Would 5e wizards actually see an appreciable increase in power if all their 1st level spells did an additional die of damage at levels 5, 11, and 17? If they got another scorching ray at, idk, maybe level 7 or 11?

We also return to the main issue that, in 5e, cantrips are not "kept flat in power unless upcast". Eventually they even become better than 1st level spell slots, which is nonsensical. Why is something that doesn't cost a resource and is so simple to be "cast almost by rote" more powerful than something that takes a resource?

I'm kind of late to the party since I didnt notice your reply at an appropriate time. But I will say you're not wrong really. There's probably some level of balance that work better than what we have here. But this is going to be a moving target Chromatic Orb clearly gets overtaken, so it needs a buff to compete. But then Magic Missile needs a buff to match Chromatic Orb right? But then sure Sleep needs a buff? Which means Scorching Ray needs a buff? Doesn't that mean Fireball? Haste? Improved Invisibility?

It's easy for this to end up being a lot of buffs for a bunch of character classes that are often considered overpowered anyway. I think the issue is probably more that cantrips are too powerful as you level. Scaling cantrips probably shouldn't be a thing (High level Warlocks excepted) and rather full casters should get their baseline power increased in other ways.