Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion *Spoilers* Guardian is ridicolous

So, Balduran can think that you like him, and he will try to get romantically involved with you.
You can say to him something like "no way, you freak" and then he goes nuts. His admits he was manipulating you all the time and that he will force you to help him no matter what.
You then can go "haha, so now all masks are fallen".

And that's it. Now you know Balduran is not a good guy but a selfish manipulative bastard. But... the game completely ignores it! In all further dialogues Emperor again tries to be you ally and friend like nothing happened.

It could be funny, but it's too immersion-breaking.

how easily he joins the Netherbrain as a willing slave out of nowhere, it's nonsensical. Throughout the entire story his main prerogative is always to manipulate others to assure his freedom and continued evolution. He is even horrified when the elder brain reveals she purposely freed him so he could bait us to bring the stones to her. And then instead of seizing the opportunity to wield Orpheus against the brain if we choose to free him, since Orpheus knows an illithid is require to use the stones against it, he decides he's going to become a thrall to the brain and die fighting you instead.

The endings are so bad because it's obvious they ran out of time and had to cut so much content out of the last Act and cobble together an ending to get for release. All the talk of agency and working up factions and defeating the Chosen only to get the Mass Effect 3 treatment of pick your three colors of the same outcome, someone has to become Illithid in the end when you could have just gotten the Emperor to use the stones while Orpheus protects you from the brain's mental assault.

Yes, despite cut content, despite the missing epilogues, despite not being able to save Karlach, the nonsense with how the Emperor reacts towards the end of the game is so nonsensical that it's easily the worst part of the game.

I love love love this game. My favorite of all time as of right now, but when the Emperor joined the Netherbrain out of nowhere, the writing fell completely apart. At first I thought, I was missing something, but no, it's just bad, and despite there being many people online definding this scene and trying to give "reasons" why the Emperor had no choice. But the truth is, it's just really really REALLY bad writing.

And it doesn't get better:

Orpheus then claims that his honor guard could have freed him and he could have destroyed the Brain if it weren't for us ... Ehm .... no?! The honor guard was imprisoned together with Orpheus over 1.000 years ago by Vlaakith I. (NOT the current Lich-Queen Vlaakith) and obviously the honor guard has not managed to free Orpheus all that time. And why should they have been able to? They did NOT have the Orphic hammer!

And then it gets even better: Orpheus just decides to turn into a mindlayer?! As far as I know, he was not infected with a tadpole. So how the hell does he become a Mindflayer?

I enjoy the idea of exploring the morality of a Mind Flayer, but Act 3 is such a mess with his writing.

The choices you make can completely change his character's behavior in a way that seems inconsistent with his motivations. It's bizarre. I honestly can't tell if they wanted to write him as a good or bad guy. His personality seems to change on a whim based on what you say to him. He will dramatically lean towards "I'm very good" if you are trusting, or "I'm very evil and manipulative" if you are suspicious of him with little to no explanation as to why. They make it seem like there should be all this trust building between the Emperor and the MC, but it means nothing when he flips like a switch and doesn't show any trust to the MC in return. If their goal was to try and make us trust the Emperor, then somebody needs to teach him that trust is a two way street.

It also makes the choice between freeing Orpheus or siding with the Emperor an easy choice. In Act 3, the game consistently throws all this dirt at the Emperor that paints him a poor light. It doesn't do the same with Orpheus. In the eyes of the player, Orpheus just seems like the "good" thing to do. He's the Gith hero who will free his people from the Lich. Why in the world would you side with the Emperor when you can help free the Gith? In reality, The Gith empire is extremely evil. Orpheus' mother was no saint. She believed in Mindflayer genocide, enslavement of all other races and that her own people were superior to everyone else. If Orpheus is looking to follow in his mother's footsteps, then the game does a poor job of showing that side of him.

I really hope they revisit Act 3 and flesh it out. As it stands, It's no wonder the community seems to think the Emperor is the "evil" choice whilst Orpheus is the "good choice".

Orpheus turning into illithid just with some random "magic" was so bad I just couldn't believe it.
After Balduran forgot he admitted his manipulations to me just the next time we met nothing in his actions surprised me, even him joining the "Absolut"

sided with the Netherbrain because if you free Orpheus was freed, he'd no longer have the ability to resist becoming a thrall again. So he wouldn't have a choice.

Orin kidnaps someone and we have to rescue them. I have a feeling we're not quite ready to Orin yet because I literally *just* found Shares's caress and elfsong tavern and got the option to accept Raphael's deal.

Orpheus still needs an Illithid for the stones, and letting the Emperor wield them would spare him having to become an Illithid himself, allowing him to go fight Vlaakith with his kin. So he would protect the Emperor from Thralldom.

As for Orin kidnapping an ally, as long as you don't approach the temple of bhaal or the murder tribunal, your ally is safe. In fact, Orin is a far easier fight then Gortash, which is puzzling because the game really wants to push you to kill Gortash first but he's a way harder fight due to his gadget mechanics. I actually had an easier time killing a 666 HP Raphael in House of Hope than I did 220 HP Gortash because the Gortash area places you in permanent turn based combat even after you clear the Bainites in the main hall, you have to just use up turns to walk to his room on the second floor. What's worse, the mine launchers are bugged and will throw mines that when exploding do 70-120 damage, and these mines are thrown even during your character's turn, so you can end up using an action, then a mine launcher tosses a grenade on you but you can't pick it up and throw it back as you just used an action, so the next turn is for the mine and it one shots your character.

Gortash's abilities are also really strong, he gains a reflective shield, magic resistance, incredibly high AC so you miss a lot of attacks, some of these buffs are tied to gadgets on the walls you need to destroy, but they placed the Sturdy condition on them so you can't use cantrips or normal autoattacks, only lightning spells or throwing a mine to really kill them. Meanwhile Gortash is doing multiattacks for 20-30 damage and line aoes for 20-30 damage while his gadgets are pelting you with mines. His gadgets and auras also give him 40 HP temporary hitpoints frequently.

"Jointing" the Brain = becoming a thrall. The Emperor always valued his freedom from the Elder Brain and fought to keep it. I thought that was his whole deal. He wants to either destroy or to dominate the brain, but not become enthralled to it.

Here is what the Emperor could have done to ensure that he doesn't become a thrall:

1. Kill the Player, so Orpheus is not freed. Then take the stones from our cold dead hands.
2. Blackmail the player, saying he would remove protection and turn us all into mindflayers if we continue with our plan to free Orpheus.
3. Leave and go far away, beyond teh Brain's control.
4. Just wait and see if Orpheus is really so bad. Orpheus needs a mindflayer to destroy the Netherbrain, so he might make use of the Emperor.

But instead, "for no raisin", once the player decides to free Orpheus, he makes a 180° turn and says: "Oh, so because you don't trust me with this, I am now suddenly so offended that I'd rather willingly become a thrall to the Elder Brain than exploring any other option".

I think he even says: "If you are not with me, then you are against me", do I remember that correctly? So that translates to: "If you don't help me destroy the Brain, I will become a slave to the Brain and fight you."

[The sudden heal turn makes no sense. He was at least a compelling enough character to keep me guessing throughout the game. I was never sure how much I could I trust him and I think he was pretty well done up to that point.

It's super weird that he just goes to the netherbrain on his own volition. I think there should have been a few checks during that dialogue.

For example - You manage to earn enough of the Emperors trust that you can persuade him and Orpheus.

If you succeed the check with the Emperor -He has his doubts, but you've shown him that you are a reliable ally. He will give this alliance a chance.

If you fail the check - He feels extremely betrayed. All of his past allies have betrayed him in one way or another, and now you are just the final nail on the coffin. Since becoming a mindflayer, he has had nobody on his side. He's had to enthrall or kill those closest to him. Your tadpole connects with his and you feel a strong sense of pain and betrayal. He wanted you to trust him and he wanted to trust you, but he can't handle another betrayal. This battle isn't worth fighting anymore. He leaves or fights you unwillingly. (Basically - If he is going to leave or fight, give us a reason as to why).

That should be followed up with a Orpheus check.

Succeed the check - Orpheus will agree to team up. He won't be super happy about it, but he knows it's what needs to be done.

Fail the check - Oprheus says "No, I will never trust the Ghaik scum who slaughtered my guard and used my powers for his own gain". Then show us Orpheus taking away the Emperor's protection. We see the Emperor succumb to Netherbrain and we have to live with the consequences.

LIKEWISE,

I think if you earned the Emperor's trust, it needs be shown with things like Minsc. That check should be non-existent or very easy if you've managed to earn his trust. If you treated him poorly on the other hand, the check remains or gets harder. Small things like that could help cement the type of relationship he's built up with the MC over the course of the game.

Can I also point out that this is the second time he sexually harasses our character and we can't call him out on it without the game framing US as the baddies?

I get around this - literally - by sneaking up to the second floor through the "back entrance". Sometimes an annoying guard spots me, but other times they are apparently elsewhere and I can get to the top and listen to Gortash and Karlach go at it a bit before he bites the dust.

act 3 factional conflict barely makes any sense when both sides wants the same thing and neither of them is the evil outcome where all that wringing about the emperor's evil machinations goes nowhere and orpheus being the chaotic good messiah of the space facist githyanki throws githzerai under the bus

Just take out the flamethrower by the door, any force damage kills them- do it out of stealth. Likewise you can cast any fire cantrip on the bombs and gortesh will take 70-120 damage. I just shoved him from bomb to bomb and he died round 3. Easier fight.

Orin is actually hard as she has unstoppable, and has the ability to one shot you round 1.