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Community Manager
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OP
Community Manager
Joined: Jul 2022
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Hello all, Since launching last month, a lot of tweaks and updates can already be seen in Baldur's Gate 3. Over the past few weeks we've chased down bugs, polished up some cinematics, and used your feedback to help organize our thoughts and inform our plans going forward. The first major patch just launched, solving over 1000 bugs to hopefully make Baldur’s Gate 3 an even better experience. But it was still a patch designed primarily to squash bugs. We want to go further than that. We now find ourselves at a time where we’re able to properly sit down and consider how to parse feedback beyond bug fixing and UX tweaks. Patch 2 is just around the corner, and while it does include bug fixes, it also includes substantial performance improvements for the first time since launch. Perhaps more notably, we’re adding better closure to the story’s final act in the form of a more fleshed-out ending for Karlach - something many of you have been asking for. Before we get ahead of ourselves, let’s take a moment to focus on a conversation some of you have been having in the background. Many of the points that come out of this conversation are being funneled into the umbrella term of ‘cut content’, so we thought it would be helpful to give you some clarity about that as we think about the future of Baldur’s Gate 3. We went through many different threads and reviews with our community teams, and we think we’ve managed to truncate the discussion about cut content and Act 3 into three topics: Performance, Bugs, and User Experience. Performance. The city of Baldur’s Gate itself is ambitious. Technically, narratively, and in scope. One of the biggest issues with creating games is that technology is always trying to keep up with your ambition, and here we’ve been hit pretty hard by some setbacks. We know that Act 3’s performance isn’t as good as the first two acts, but the good news is that Patch 2 is bringing major performance improvements to the entire game, but more specifically to Act 3 where you’ll feel it the most. We’ll also be working throughout September to improve performance in Act 3 further with new technology that’s been taking a bit longer to release than we expected. Bugs. We’ve seen your reports about Act 3, and we are as frustrated as you are by bugs spoiling the experience. So we’re dedicated to solving these quickly. And as you’ve noticed by our Hotfix and Patch rollout, we’re getting pretty fast. Our approach is that whenever blockers pop up, we either release a hotfix if a patch is not imminent or include the fix as part of a patch if the patch is imminent. With Patch 1, your experience should already be a lot better, with most big issues solved by at least a workaround. Patch 2 looks to further eliminate some of the more major issues, including those found in Act 3. Some things that are currently being associated with ‘cut content’ are actually things like companion reactions to events in the world that didn’t trigger. These are being solved. Where there seem to be loose ends, we’re tying them up. User Experience. UX covers a lot of things: from how it feels to play the game, to how you feel when you’re playing it. Baldur’s Gate 3 is a game 3 years in Early Access and 6 years in the making. Many of the ‘building blocks’ or ideas, tests, or however you want to refer to the junk data that falls outside of what we shipped with, can and is being datamined.That’s okay, but it’s important to understand that not every building block in the giant box of Lego is needed to create the experience we ultimately envisioned and intended over years of iteration. We’ve seen three types of complaints that are being referred to as cut content: The first references content that actually doesn’t properly trigger because of a bug, for instance some of Minthara’s reactivity. We’ve located what’s causing that and are working on it - expect a fix for this soon. The second is about the epilogue. What’s been datamined is not really cut content but content that we didn’t want to release because we didn’t think it worked. We’re pretty strict with ourselves and our ideas. If it isn’t good - if it isn’t fun to play - it doesn’t make it into the game. One of the reasons why we trimmed the epilogue is because we were afraid the ending cinematics were becoming too long and would detract from the epicness of the experience. But clearly, not everyone agrees with us! So we’re going to do something about it. We’ve started expanding the epilogues and you’ll see the first results of that in Patch 2 with the addition of a new optional ending with Karlach. It’s fiery, poignant, and gives her the ending she deserves. The third is about the things we actually didn’t plan for, and those we once considered but ultimately didn’t do. It was always our intention for the Upper City to be an epic, cinematic epilogue bringing the story of Baldur’s Gate 3 to a close. But we didn’t talk about that in advance because it would have been a major spoiler. We feel confident that there’s enough content in Baldur’s Gate 3, and the city itself, clocking in weeks-long playthroughs at a time. But that’s not to say Baldur’s Gate 3 didn’t see cuts just as every game. It’s just important to know that what ultimately shipped was planned long ago, in function primarily of making Baldur’s Gate 3 fun to play, not for us to close development quickly. Baldur’s Gate 3 is a game with many release dates, and despite us moving its launch up by around a month, it’s still a couple years late. It was late because we grew teams, ambition, and ideas in function of it being the best game it could possibly be. Thankfully, not every idea makes it into the final launch. It wouldn’t be the game you enjoy if they did. We’re happy that Baldur’s Gate 3 has resonated with a great many of you, but we’ll never take that for granted. We’re committed to tying up loose ends, fixing the remaining bugs, and improving things where we see they could - and should - be improved. So, what can you expect from us in the future? First: we’ll keep on monitoring what bugs you encounter and we’ll make sure to patch them as fast as we can. Second: We’ll start making improvements based on the feedback you’re giving us. Baldur’s Gate 3 means so much to a great deal of you, and in turn that means the world to us. We love this game and we’re not done with it yet. We welcome your feedback, your threads, and also your words of encouragement. Withers’ Wardrobe of Wayward Friends - which we hope to launch very soon - is an example of us integrating your feedback. This feature allows you to get rid of co-op party members who join your campaign, so you can continue on without them. We’re also working on the ability to change your characters’ look once you’ve started a campaign, though we don’t have a release date for that yet. There will be more and you can expect us to come with modding support at some point too. Once again, thank you for giving us so much feedback. It’s incredibly motivating for us and drives us to do better and better. ![[Linked Image from clan.cloudflare.steamstatic.com]](https://clan.cloudflare.steamstatic.com/images//35190511/c51581c57948b36b2c70affc89306cd57bd056cb.jpg)
Last edited by Salo; 29/08/23 09:30 PM.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Dec 2020
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Is there a chance, that Helia, the cut halfling companion might make a reappearance somewhere in the future?
And yay for fixing Karlach.
"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."
Doctor Who
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Apr 2013
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The third is about the things we actually didn’t plan for, and those we once considered but ultimately didn’t do.
It was always our intention for the Upper City to be an epic, cinematic epilogue bringing the story of Baldur’s Gate 3 to a close. But we didn’t talk about that in advance because it would have been a major spoiler. I take a bit of issue with this because Swen talked about the upper city being being fully in and playable just two weeks before launch. That seems to be a pretty major lapse from it's in, stated two weeks or so before launch to we considered it but didn't do it. Did Swen not know about such a major piece not having entered development and thought it would be ready for launch? That's a huge miscommunication. If the upper city doesn't make it, I'm fine with it, but I hope the epilogue that we get is good because that's the part that really hurts me to bottom of my soul. If you think the issue is time and that it takes too long then make it skippable or parts of it skippable so maybe if some people don't want to hear about Astarion or Halsin they can just skip those and hear about their favorite companions. And also...I understand this ended up something that was considered and wasn't used, not necessarily cut as such but I would love nothing more than some of the Raven Queen content to arrive at some point after you are done with the epilogue. Maybe definitive edition content?
Last edited by Darth_Trethon; 29/08/23 09:26 PM.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2020
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TRANSMOG FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, PLEASE. I don't want my druid to look like a paladin for 80-90+ hours of the game because literally most of the viable medium armor is scale mail. No camp clothes that fit a druid at all, I don't want to have to rob Halsin of his undergarments to look like a druid and less a dandy or peasant.
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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
Joined: Oct 2021
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I’ve complained a lot in the last few weeks, more as a form of live feedback as the game progressed, but as my first playthrough draws to a close (Good Tiefling Dragonborn Sorcerer Tav), I want to express my overall opinion about the game: genuine and thorough satisfaction.
Could the game have been better? Yes, but any game could have been better. Would I want every aspect of the initial vision that was cut to be restored? Probably, but I’d say the same of most of my favorite games, and I also think people should be careful what they wish for. Do I want more out of this game? Yes, but I want more out of my favorite games too. There’s a sadness that comes when you run on the path of an enthralling and enjoyable journey only for the path to run out, as all paths do. I’d like the cutting room floor, an expansion, and a sequel, but don’t think the lack of these things would diminish the initial release.
For every complaint I’ve made and still intend to make, I want to convey—on the off chance anyone at Larian has ever read anything I’ve written here— that this game is a masterpiece, and one of the greatest RPGs of all time, and the developers should be proud of what they’ve made.
Anyway, back to complaining.
Remember the human (This is a forum for a video game):
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member
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member
Joined: Aug 2023
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I am happy to hear that you guys are working on improving the games performance and adding new/improved content, looking forward to seeing it. The second is about the epilogue. What’s been datamined is not really cut content but content that we didn’t want to release because we didn’t think it worked. We’re pretty strict with ourselves and our ideas. If it isn’t good - if it isn’t fun to play - it doesn’t make it into the game. One of the reasons why we trimmed the epilogue is because we were afraid the ending cinematics were becoming too long and would detract from the epicness of the experience. But clearly, not everyone agrees with us! So we’re going to do something about it. Now onto this part. I really, really don't want to come of as an ass but c'mon. C'mon Larian, you thought that actual epilogue that expands on the story by telling us what happens with out characters/companions wasn't good enough and it didn't work but a whole ass scene showing random npcs and a black screen was? C'mon now. (I know it PR but it did make me laugh) Either way I wish you guys the best in improving the game and hope you are reading the spoiler story section.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Aug 2023
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I will be glad to see the new/improved content. I really really am surprised that Larian felt the current endings were good, it was so weird for me. Jarring and jumping quickly between people and just not making a lot of sense. I am glad they will be bringing something back, hopefully as epic as all the cut scenes throughout the game were with passion and emotion.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Jun 2022
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Karlach fixed... oh my, faith is restored in love!  Pretty exciting news, can't wait to dig my hands into the patch. Now we need #JusticeForMinthara! 
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Aug 2023
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It s very sad, goodbye Larian.
Last edited by Shipa; 29/08/23 09:47 PM.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2020
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TRANSMOG FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, PLEASE. I don't want my druid to look like a paladin for 80-90+ hours of the game because literally most of the viable medium armor is scale mail. No camp clothes that fit a druid at all, I don't want to have to rob Halsin of his undergarments to look like a druid and less a dandy or peasant. Rob Jaheira for her camp oufit  Still no transmog feature and no real way to have full custom party... that's quite frankly annoying.
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member
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member
Joined: Jul 2023
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That's sobering.
So Minthara not having any actual story content after you free her was intended?
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Apr 2013
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That's sobering.
So Minthara not having any actual story content after you free her was intended? No, they mention her in the bit I quote bellow...seems that some of her events or mission triggers aren't working as intended. So she should be getting more content soon. I hope it is good because she is by far the best companion. "The first references content that actually doesn’t properly trigger because of a bug, for instance some of Minthara’s reactivity. We’ve located what’s causing that and are working on it - expect a fix for this soon."
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member
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member
Joined: Jul 2023
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No, they mention her in the bit I quote bellow...seems that some of her events or mission triggers aren't working as intended. So she should be getting more content soon. I hope it is good because she is by far the best companion.
"The first references content that actually doesn’t properly trigger because of a bug, for instance some of Minthara’s reactivity. We’ve located what’s causing that and are working on it - expect a fix for this soon." They're talking about reactivity. That's not the same as an actual quest. It's probably more along the lines of her commenting on events during quests or in camp and perhaps banter as well.
Last edited by Nerovar; 29/08/23 10:29 PM.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Apr 2013
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They're talking about reactivity. That's not the same as an actual quest. It's probably more along the lines of her commenting on events during quests or in camp and perhaps banter as well. I mean most companions do have a second romance phase towards the end of the game, so they mention reactivity but surely there's more missing there. I'd imagine some of that will be part of the fixed content.
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member
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member
Joined: Jul 2023
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I mean most companions do have a second romance phase towards the end of the game, so they mention reactivity but surely there's more missing there. I'd imagine some of that will be part of the fixed content. They might. But nothing in this blog post indicates that they will.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Apr 2013
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I mean most companions do have a second romance phase towards the end of the game, so they mention reactivity but surely there's more missing there. I'd imagine some of that will be part of the fixed content. They might. But nothing in this blog post indicates that they will. I don't doubt they're working on that. Even if it's not all done in the next patch I think they recognize Minthara is quite popular and a lot of people are quite miffed by the missing content.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Feb 2020
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Hmm ... didn't read anything about fixes to major story inconsistencies towards the ending, where the narrative just falls apart and doesn't make sense: The whole narrative around the Emperor and Orpheus does not make sense.
It does not make sense that the Emperor joins the Netherbrain.
It does not make sense that Oprheus says his honor guard could have freed him without the Oprphic Hammer.
It does not make sense that Orpheus can turn himself into a mindflayer without being tadpoled. This is not just bad writing. These are mistakes in the narrative. This scene needs a complete overhaul. And I'm shocked that you thought after a 100+ hour game with relationships to these wonderful characters, people would be happy with a quick wrap up: "boss defeated? Great, finally some time to do the dishes. Thank good the game skipped to credits right away." Really? Really Really!? It's clear as day people want to have a slow and drawn out ending. I agree, 30 min of cutscenes are too long! What you should have done is a similar but bigger event than the Act 1 Ending / Party. Not cinematics, but actual gameplay!!! That's ALL you needed to do. Make it possible to talk to all major NPCs. Have a final conversation with all of your party members. Have an additional scene only with the character you romances. Have a final good bye scene.
Last edited by SiriusVI; 29/08/23 11:04 PM.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Oct 2021
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I've really been wanting to play a Minthara run, but I've been hesitant because I've heard it's not working well. Crossing my fingers that there's more for her character.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Aug 2023
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We’ve started expanding the epilogues and you’ll see the first results of that in Patch 2 with the addition of a new optional ending with Karlach. It’s fiery, poignant, and gives her the ending she deserves. YES! Please give my flaming hot girlfriend the happy ending we're all praying for! <3
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Aug 2023
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Honestly I do not mean to be rude but I do have to voice my frustrations with this whole launch not just the game itself. This game was being praised up and down as a true form return for gaming with the phrase we have not heard very often since like 2005, "Feature complete". However, this game is so far from complete it almost feels like another Cyberpunk 2077 launch, many many bugs hindering questlines from being finished, main companion quest lines with no resolution whatsoever, the whole ending regardless of what choices are made being the worst ending I have ever seen since the original launch of Mass Effect 3, zero consequences for using Tadpole powers despite it Literally being the main floccule point of the game... Furthermore, this game is being praised because of the quote "Honesty" Larian should be put right next to Blizzard, EA, and Bioware with the level of DISHONESTY that was present with the release of this game. The CEO of Larian clearly stated that the upper city would be fully explorable, if that was never the indented case then that should have been properly communicated because this is blatant fraud behavior. Honestly, Larian should issue refunds just like Cyberpunk 2077 then maybe just maybe us consumers can invest our hard earned money WHEN/IF the game is ever actually complete. As it stands now I have zero faith in this company, they are liars and I will never purchase one of their products again.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Jul 2023
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I wish they prioritized appearance change over Karlach ending...
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Volunteer Moderator
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Volunteer Moderator
Joined: Feb 2022
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Hi folks, we have a couple of threads on these forums already about Karlach’s fate and the ending more generally if you want to get involved in those discussions.
"You may call it 'nonsense' if you like, but I've heard nonsense, compared with which that would be as sensible as a dictionary!"
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Aug 2023
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All this is great but there are a lot of story points in the game that will only make sense with rewrites. Some of them are really bad, I would like the devs to address this at some point.
Last edited by Mouthbreathereli; 30/08/23 12:10 AM.
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member
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member
Joined: Aug 2023
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I mean most companions do have a second romance phase towards the end of the game, so they mention reactivity but surely there's more missing there. I'd imagine some of that will be part of the fixed content. They might. But nothing in this blog post indicates that they will. I don't doubt they're working on that. Even if it's not all done in the next patch I think they recognize Minthara is quite popular and a lot of people are quite miffed by the missing content. They recognized it pretty fast in Early Access. They pitched her like the reward for taking the less traveled (and very punishing in terms of what you lose) path; which given how she's kind of just been a wall flower after rescuing her for most people talking about it has been pretty grotesque. It's weird that almost none of her specific content was functional in the final release to begin with, considering she was intended to be a companion long before Halsin whose content seems as polished as any. It wasn't a good sign, and while I recognize progression blocking bugs were a higher priority, leaving her non-functional while they smooth out reactivity flow for dialogue that isn't even accessible yet has made it even more weird. The writers knocked it out of the park with her development even with what little has been working properly, and moreso with what precious little was fixed in Patch 1. So here's hoping we don't get short-changed with whatever they consider to be her intended state because she's hands-down one of the best-written characters in the game. Likewise with Karlach, I hope her expanded epilogue includes completing her quest development with the items and options clearly intended to earn her a happy(ier?) ending that just kinda sit there doing nothing as-is, and not just one more branch of dialogue to choose. Personally I'm good with tragedies, but her quest just tapers off and doesn't let you use the stuff that's clearly meant to continue it. There are even characters that should have been able to allow her quest to progress (though perhaps more definitively in a tragic direction) if Dammon was rendered unavailable, but instead her quest just gets stuck. There are some weird gaps that need filling in the longer-term than I think the next couple patches will get around to. More directly to Larian: I get why you guys may have been apprehensive about the ending starting to take a little too long to wrap, but you made that content for a reason, right? It's what people want from this specific genre. So I'm glad you're acknowledging people want it hooked back in and if nothing else I hope it at least makes the people who made those scenes happy that they'll actually be seen and appreciated.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2020
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One of the reasons why we trimmed the epilogue is because we were afraid the ending cinematics were becoming too long and would detract from the epicness of the experience. ... ... huh. I guess Larian's devs are not fans of how Peter Jackson (or JRR Tolkien) ended The Return of the King.  I mean, many critics and fans also weren't happy with the finale(s), so it's not an outrageous position to take, and I can see why you'd prefer a big finish. But I liked the 20 minutes of fake-out endings and the Scouring of the Shire. Sauron's fall was just the very beginning of the end. Heck, Sauron didn't matter to me, really - everyone and everything else did. It's the same here. I'm glad this is being addressed, at least somewhat.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
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This is why we LOVE you, Team Larian!! You're the best!!
Right on, and THANK YOU!!
Ok, time to get back to playing down, down, down by the river!
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member
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member
Joined: Oct 2020
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I don't envy you needing to post this, Salo, but this is not a great community update. It's spin and PR talk, and all of it is very carefully worded.
People are already assuming Karlach is going to get an outright happy ending. But whoever wrote this was careful to use the word "poignant" -- that is, "evoking a keen sense of sadness or regret." While I like Karlach's ending as-is, I think it is disingenuous to imply that so many people will be getting the happy ending that's been such a source of consternation. Additionally, only "some" of Minthara's reactivity will be fixed. I don't plan on playing with Minthara, but there appear to be much more issues with her than that. There was no 'cut content' but merely "content we didn't want to release." That is to say, cut content.
As someone who was a big fan of the Baldur's Gate 3 that was presented in EA, with Daisy and the moodier storytelling and the more prickly companions, and went through release realizing that all the things that were unique had been whittled down or outright cut, I'd really been hoping to see an open and fair assessment from Larian. It's clear that something substantial took place during development, perhaps very late in development, that drastically altered the narrative meat of the game. It's more than bugs or UI issues or whatever else.
Elements like Daisy weren't little tidbits that were datamined and misrepresented -- they were big elements of early access, and so prominent that the Guardian had to inherit the "dream waifu" aspect despite it over-complicating his character. The origin system is barebones. Elements like Gale's magic hunger are now downright vestigial. I understand that Larian has always been very sensitive to criticism and feedback throughout EA, but there's merit in standing by your vision instead of pivoting like a weathervane to try and please people who haven't experienced the full product yet. Elements that are now entirely absent were being added to EA merely twelve months out from release.
I don't know whether it was scope and feature creep, or an edict from Wizards of the Coast, or a genuine-but-ill-thought-out attempt to listen to feedback, but there were severe alterations made to core elements of BG3, and I wish Larian would be open enough to talk about it and what they learned from whatever happened and how this would impact their projects going forward. The alterations to BG3 were so late that they didn't even make it into the art book.
I enjoyed my time with Baldur's Gate 3, don't get me wrong. But I think Larian should be a little more forthright about what happened, and not trying to foist the responsibility onto the players. The people who paid for your product, and who much of your media hype was based around being unlike other companies. Because in the final accounting, it doesn't feel like we got anything that's much different from any big name CRPG: a game that begins well but falls apart into a slog of endless, gruelling combat and dangling narrative threads, a victim of reach exceeding grasp.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Nov 2021
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Larian,
Please stop lying to your customers. The gaslighting in this community update is not appreciated. Either tell the truth or don’t say anything at all.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Aug 2023
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Could not have said it better myself.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Jan 2018
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this pach better have the players romance dialogue with Karlach take priority over Wylls offer to take her to Avernus, the last thing I want in the epilogue screen is for the weak link to take Karlach to Avernus rather than the player who romanced her
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Oct 2020
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the addition of a new optional ending with Karlach. It’s fiery, poignant, and gives her the ending she deserves. Thank you!
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member
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member
Joined: Oct 2020
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Look forward to this drama rekindling when the new ending rolls around and it's still "poignant" and not "happy."
Last edited by Milkfred; 30/08/23 02:33 AM.
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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
Joined: Oct 2021
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Would accept no epilogue if it means we are definitely getting an expansion or sequel.
Remember the human (This is a forum for a video game):
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Oct 2020
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Would accept no epilogue if it means we are definitely getting an expansion or sequel.  
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Feb 2020
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I don't envy you needing to post this, Salo, but this is not a great community update. It's spin and PR talk, and all of it is very carefully worded.
People are already assuming Karlach is going to get an outright happy ending. But whoever wrote this was careful to use the word "poignant" -- that is, "evoking a keen sense of sadness or regret." While I like Karlach's ending as-is, I think it is disingenuous to imply that so many people will be getting the happy ending that's been such a source of consternation. Additionally, only "some" of Minthara's reactivity will be fixed. I don't plan on playing with Minthara, but there appear to be much more issues with her than that. There was no 'cut content' but merely "content we didn't want to release." That is to say, cut content.
As someone who was a big fan of the Baldur's Gate 3 that was presented in EA, with Daisy and the moodier storytelling and the more prickly companions, and went through release realizing that all the things that were unique had been whittled down or outright cut, I'd really been hoping to see an open and fair assessment from Larian. It's clear that something substantial took place during development, perhaps very late in development, that drastically altered the narrative meat of the game. It's more than bugs or UI issues or whatever else.
Elements like Daisy weren't little tidbits that were datamined and misrepresented -- they were big elements of early access, and so prominent that the Guardian had to inherit the "dream waifu" aspect despite it over-complicating his character. The origin system is barebones. Elements like Gale's magic hunger are now downright vestigial. I understand that Larian has always been very sensitive to criticism and feedback throughout EA, but there's merit in standing by your vision instead of pivoting like a weathervane to try and please people who haven't experienced the full product yet. Elements that are now entirely absent were being added to EA merely twelve months out from release.
I don't know whether it was scope and feature creep, or an edict from Wizards of the Coast, or a genuine-but-ill-thought-out attempt to listen to feedback, but there were severe alterations made to core elements of BG3, and I wish Larian would be open enough to talk about it and what they learned from whatever happened and how this would impact their projects going forward. The alterations to BG3 were so late that they didn't even make it into the art book.
I enjoyed my time with Baldur's Gate 3, don't get me wrong. But I think Larian should be a little more forthright about what happened, and not trying to foist the responsibility onto the players. The people who paid for your product, and who much of your media hype was based around being unlike other companies. Because in the final accounting, it doesn't feel like we got anything that's much different from any big name CRPG: a game that begins well but falls apart into a slog of endless, gruelling combat and dangling narrative threads, a victim of reach exceeding grasp. I really appreciate you writing this. It perfectly illustrates almost every single issue I have with the game. Yes, I liked the mechanics, the combat, the interesting items that they designed, the companions, but this post speaks to me on a deeper level. After a few days of stewing on the story, and the changes from EA, little things like Gale needing specific items and if not fed he would go to Raphael to Astarion embracing the powers or wanting to, all of the more somber elements that we became familiar with in the EA were all changed, the Emperor replaced Daisy and you can see as you roll later into the game how his story comes apart due to a last minute addition. The story is...lacking, which is such a strange thing as there are only a few cRPGs I can name off hand that were truly fun but had as many plot holes, story inconsistencies, and downright immersion breaking moments due to the story. It's rare. Anyway, thanks for this write-up, it sums up how I felt perfectly.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Aug 2023
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Will primal strike be fixed? It doesnt work at all. Creatures with resistance to nonmagical dmg still take half damage.
And wild shapes dont get the save profiencies of their animals which is necessary for the hybrid concentration aspect.
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member
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member
Joined: Oct 2020
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I really appreciate you writing this. It perfectly illustrates almost every single issue I have with the game. Yes, I liked the mechanics, the combat, the interesting items that they designed, the companions, but this post speaks to me on a deeper level. After a few days of stewing on the story, and the changes from EA, little things like Gale needing specific items and if not fed he would go to Raphael to Astarion embracing the powers or wanting to, all of the more somber elements that we became familiar with in the EA were all changed, the Emperor replaced Daisy and you can see as you roll later into the game how his story comes apart due to a last minute addition. The story is...lacking, which is such a strange thing as there are only a few cRPGs I can name off hand that were truly fun but had as many plot holes, story inconsistencies, and downright immersion breaking moments due to the story. It's rare. Anyway, thanks for this write-up, it sums up how I felt perfectly. No problem. I sent Larian something similar shortly after I finished my first playthrough and I hope they read it in the spirit which it was intended. On the one hand, we got a great look behind the curtain as far as game development goes with BG3's Early Access period. On the other, the changes that Larian made were somewhat astounding. I understand that things get changed, some things just don't work out, feedback is taken under consideration -- but I'd really like Larian to explain the significant shift in narrative tone from a moody atmosphere with difficult choices to a more epic heroic fantasy vibe. I've mentioned a few times on the forums that something had to lead to such sweeping changes, but I don't think we'll ever be able to determine what. I've suspected it could've been the long rest system (still basically clunky and unworkable since EA) specifically, as I could see why you'd drastically simplify the Daisy/illithid power stuff given how much of an issue it was, or it could've been a more pragmatically cynical direction to basically go, look, 97.65% of our players only go through the good guy path, so let's not waste too many resources on anything else, and let's make that heroic experience as thorough as possible. I could also buy that Wizards decided that maybe Daisy was not acceptable in a mainstream game for the DnD brand, and that left Larian scrambling to try and make something fit there. Problem is, all the thoughts I have just lead to more questions. Everyone knew the long rest system was a problem from the early days of EA, so why didn't Larian really devote time to figuring it out? Why didn't they implement Daisy slightly outside your camp, like they did Raphael, or provide more structure to the opening segment (have you meet her before you wake up on the beach, for example.) If they pivoted hard to 'good guy epic fantasy', then why didn't they know that from the start? Why even create something darker and moodier? If Wizards made a very late call, well, same issue -- was Wizards not paying attention to anything prior? Surely Larian had given them a detailed pitch and briefing. What bothers me, however, is perhaps the most pessimistic possibility: that Larian got spooked by loud naysayers and conducted extensive slash-and-burn edits at the drop of the hat. The original narration was a little goofy, yeah, but I know I went from someone who didn't care much about the change from varied narrators to one (Amelia Tyler) after Chubblot did a video showing off just how extensive that original narration was. And what's bothersome about this is that having the origin characters narrate their own stories seems like such a central pillar of even playing through as one of them, that I'm shocked that Larian cut it all out even though thousands and thousands of lines were already implemented. Like, what happened? Now, if you play as an origin character, you just kind of get less of them. And I dare say that, had the story really involved Daisy as the Absolute and the gradual loss of your mind and soul as you used the illithid powers, then a character narrating their own adventures would probably have powerful resonance. And there's a lot of elements like this. The voice you hear in character generation is the voice of the Absolute, although you only learn that when you hear the Absolute speak to you later in the game. In EA, the Absolute was asking you, "Who are you? Who do you dream of at night?" It's very clear that Daisy was supposed to be connected to the Absolute. You can't just swap out a representative of the major antagonist with someone who is supposed to be an ally. Larian has claimed that they rewrote Daisy because people didn't trust them, but people still don't trust the Guardian! No one ever was going to trust the dream visitor, but it was a bit more palatable when it was a 'deal with the devil' situation. And, again, the origin system seemed to tie into this given how the origin characters had a unique Daisy who they had some connection with. That mention of a deal with the devil is important, however, because this is why they rewrote Wyll. Wyll's original EA storyline was basically a reflection for the player's relationship with Daisy, and his relationship with Mizora. At one point, he'd outright say something like, "I took a deal without knowing who was making it. I regret it and wish I could get out of it, but these awesome powers are really useful." His whole thing was about trying to get out of the deal before he couldn't. Sound familiar? There was a very powerful, interesting theme running through all the characters: what would you do to live another day, what would you sacrifice? Would you let someone with no medical training shove a pick in your eye? Would you take a deal with Raphael?Would you wear Omeluum's ring? Or would you try to toe the line, and maybe get one over your mysterious patron? It was there in your party members, too. Gale would consume powerful magic items, or sign his soul to Raphael. Astarion literally consumes blood and the abused could become the abuser. Lae'zel risks being sacrificed to Vlaakith. Shadowheart had given up her memories. Even Karlach's ending, with her dying surrounded by her friends on her own terms, gains powerful resonance when you consider she's the most moral character in the party. When faced with the prospect of turning to dark bargains or immoral solutions, she says, no I might die, but I'll die surrounded by my friends. And what's annoying about these two rewrites in particular is that this Community Update is not the first time Larian's played the blame game with their fanbase. Daisy was apparently rewritten because players weren't engaging with the illithid powers -- yeah, because it seemed like a bad idea, but I still had planned to do one where I spurned Daisy and one where I didn't. Larian said they rewrote Wyll because he was the least-liked party member, although it's pretty clear it's more because of his thematic relevance toward the old story. But even then, there were other factors that I'd say affected things: Wyll was the straight man of the group, the sensible guy among a crew of weirdoes, and the last guy you could get access to in EA, and, yes, a black man. Then they rewrote him drastically, and he's still almost certainly the least-liked companion, and arguably far less interesting than his EA incarnation. So what was the point? It just seems like they had a pretty solid idea of what Baldur's Gate 3 was going to be from a narrative standpoint, and at some point, for a reason they've never explained, they threw it out. As someone who fell in love with the glimpses we got in Early Access, it was disappointing to get what, as a friend termed it, Baldur's Gate 3: Dragon Age Edition. Had Baldur's Gate 3 continued with what it seemed like was there -- party members with their own agendas, ones you had to work with to open up, who'd try and solve their own issues, etc, tadpole consequences, meaningful choices, -- then I'd genuinely say we'd have gotten the 10/10 paradigm shift that industry people were literally griping about on social media. As it is, it's a 8/10 with some great aspects (voice acting, for one) but really doesn't do much beyond the three-act 'save the world with your pals' structure that Bioware pioneered years ago, and has some of the shakiest third act/climax stuff this side of Obsidian. This stuff was voice acted and animated and implemented. It was all there. It took more work to rerecord it and change it than just to leave it in. And that, to me, suggests that there was some big issue behind the scenes that led to a wholesale narrative readjustment. It's Larian's prerogative to make the changes they want during EA, but I really doubt that anyone in EA would've realistically predicted that they were going to gut things that were already in the game. That songs like Down by the River would have no relevance. That everything with Daisy would've been reduced to 'trust me, bro, eat the tadpoles, collect all the powers.' My understanding is that DOS2, a game I enjoyed, didn't have anything nearly as wide-ranging in changes between EA and release. And I'd just really like to know what led to BG3 going the way it did, if only to have some kind of measure as to whether I'll pay for an EA product from Larian again. There's a whole conversation here about artistic intent and integrity versus audience reception and desires, and seeing Larian seemingly bend so sharply is less than ideal. It'd be nice to know what Larian learned from this, because there's no way that implementing varied narrations, Daisy, companion subplots, and whatever else, only to rip them out maybe twelve months out from release was ever their original plan. Knowing the lessons learned by Larian would do a lot to know what to expect from them in the future.
Last edited by The Red Queen; 30/08/23 08:16 AM. Reason: Added spoiler tags
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2020
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It was always our intention for the Upper City to be an epic, cinematic epilogue bringing the story of Baldur’s Gate 3 to a close. But we didn’t talk about that in advance because it would have been a major spoiler. This should be finale not epilogue, surely?
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Jul 2023
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It's good that they listen, but I am a bit disapointed that we are not getting more right now. BUT this is definitely not going to be the only HUGE patch they will be doing. It is only the first of many. The future looks bright for this game, with Larian's attitude. So I just hope they will keep listening and adding in more and more stuff and options. For me the most important issue right now (besides bugs and the extremely lacklustre ending) is customizable hirelings (that are not vessels), they are pretty essential for me if I am to start a second playthrough. So I hope they will add that option soon!
But yeh, many have said it: It feels like we are in a new state of EA, act I is the only part of the game that seems fully fleshed out by now. But again: as long as Larian keeps listening and keeps adding stuff - I can live with that.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jul 2009
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I have a hard time believing Larians statement about the upper city and other content based on their previous communication, the way act 3 is structured and datamined content.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Feb 2020
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One of the reasons why we trimmed the epilogue is because we were afraid the ending cinematics were becoming too long and would detract from the epicness of the experience. ... ... huh. I guess Larian's devs are not fans of how Peter Jackson (or JRR Tolkien) ended The Return of the King. I mean, many critics and fans also weren't happy with the finale(s), so it's not an outrageous position to take, and I can see why you'd prefer a big finish. But I liked the 20 minutes of fake-out endings and the Scouring of the Shire. Sauron's fall was just the very beginning of the end. Heck, Sauron didn't matter to me, really - everyone and everything else did. It's the same here. I'm glad this is being addressed, at least somewhat. But LOTR is a movie, not a game. Even if you watch the extended editions of the entire trilogy, that's still under 24 hours of content, I believe. That's nothing compared to the 100+ hours you spend in Baldur's Gate 3. Also in the game, YOU roleplay as the main character. These are YOUR relationsships and it's YOUR story. A video game, and especially a good RPG, makes you much more invested in the characters and stories than a movie.
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Volunteer Moderator
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Volunteer Moderator
Joined: Feb 2022
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No spoilers (ie discussion of specific plot elements) in this thread, please folk!
Even if appropriately tagged, we ask that you take them to threads in appropriate subforums as people should certainly be able to read discussion about community updates without seeing something they wish they hadn't.
"You may call it 'nonsense' if you like, but I've heard nonsense, compared with which that would be as sensible as a dictionary!"
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Oct 2020
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With the Minthara fix to be coming "soon", I'm left wondering if I should pause my run or not.
I just had Minthara join me, and I don't know if the fix would apply to my game or if I'd need to start fresh to have the proper experience.
Does anyone know?
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Apr 2022
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Still no transmog feature and no real way to have full custom party... that's quite frankly annoying. In fact there should be please less bells and whistles a la symptom control and please real root cause fix / implementation of full customy party system from scratch including adjustments to pathing, party formation, and a more reasonable use of vehicles e. g. Underark boat etc. pp.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Aug 2023
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Honestly I do not mean to be rude but I do have to voice my frustrations with this whole launch not just the game itself. This game was being praised up and down as a true form return for gaming with the phrase we have not heard very often since like 2005, "Feature complete". However, this game is so far from complete it almost feels like another Cyberpunk 2077 launch, many many bugs hindering questlines from being finished, main companion quest lines with no resolution whatsoever, the whole ending regardless of what choices are made being the worst ending I have ever seen since the original launch of Mass Effect 3, zero consequences for using Tadpole powers despite it Literally being the main floccule point of the game... Furthermore, this game is being praised because of the quote "Honesty" Larian should be put right next to Blizzard, EA, and Bioware with the level of DISHONESTY that was present with the release of this game. The CEO of Larian clearly stated that the upper city would be fully explorable, if that was never the indented case then that should have been properly communicated because this is blatant fraud behavior. Honestly, Larian should issue refunds just like Cyberpunk 2077 then maybe just maybe us consumers can invest our hard earned money WHEN/IF the game is ever actually complete. As it stands now I have zero faith in this company, they are liars and I will never purchase one of their products again. Good to hear someone advocating for integrity from gaming companies - so little of it these days from either companies or the fanboi's. I'm enjoying the game and can appreciate the complexity involved, however 6 years for what is much half-baked content, well, that's a little embarrassing. I'm in agreement that I wouldn't buy any further products from Larian at this point - see if you can persuade me otherwise. An aside...the company that ultimately bears responsibility for the content of this game is Hasbro, one of the largest maker of children's toys and content in the world. Interesting they would approve the release of what is nothing more than bad soft porn that will be accessed by many underage players.
Last edited by Myhthreindeer; 30/08/23 10:28 AM.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jul 2023
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Two dozen paragraphs of "nothing-burger".
They tells us, yet again, how they listen to feedback. They say that Patch 2 is "just around the corner, which they said a week or two ago.
They then say they will be "working throughout September" on the performance improving technology. This suggests that we are (i) looking at a corner that is at least a month long and (ii) technology that wont have been tested very much. For "a game 3 years in Early Access and 6 years in the making" but which still managed to be released with "over 1000 bugs" it doesn't augur well.
The only things of substance in there are the Karlach story epilogue and the co-op Withers gimmick. Nothing about game mechanics, plot inconsistencies, QoL issues or other things that exercise people, at least those on this forum.
The update finishes with them mentioning feedback.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Apr 2013
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Ok so this is enormous...I can't put into words how excited I am to see this. It seems like Larian aren't just fixing unused content, which I would have been happy with to be honest but they are creating new content for companions. Swen tweeted about 10 minutes ago that they'll be calling actors back to the studio...so new dialogue is being recorded. I hope they bring a lot of Minthara content.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Jul 2014
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The studio needs to acknowledge that the problem many people are having with Act 3 is not the scarce amount of content as much as the fact that a lot of it is coming to abrupt, anti-climatic conclusions.
And this without even touching companion storylines and “ending slides” specifically.
Honestly I already said in the past weeks that people are deluding themselves if they think all (or even most) of this “cut content” is destined to be restored at any point in time, but there’s no denying that Larian would have a lot of room to improve the flow and feel of this third Act.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jul 2009
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The studio needs to acknowledge that the problem many people are having with Act 3 is not the scarce amount of content as much as the fact that a lot of it is coming to abrupt, anti-climatic conclusions.
And this without even touching companion storylines and “ending slides” specifically.
Honestly I already said in the past weeks that people are deluding themselves if they think all (or even most) of this “cut content” is destined to be restored at any point in time, but there’s no denying that Larian would have a lot of room to improve the flow and feel of this third Act. The more people complain, the more likely that there will be signcficant changes in act 3. Or at least it will make it more likely that Larians next game will actually be finished.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jul 2023
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FFS. Larian will create scenes and dialogue to make Minthara and Karlach's new content conform to the game content. Actors will be needed to speak those new dialogue lines.
Where do you get the "they are creating new content for companions" from a one-line tweet "Thinking of all the actors we’re going to call back to the studio"? It's going to be a patch not a DLC.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Apr 2013
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FFS. Larian will create scenes and dialogue to make Minthara and Karlach's new content conform to the game content. Actors will be needed to speak those new dialogue lines.
Where do you get the "they are creating new content for companions" from a one-line tweet "Thinking of all the actors we’re going to call back to the studio"? It's going to be a patch not a DLC. The only reason to call actors back is to record new dialogue and it sounds like they're calling back quite a few actors too. They wouldn't be doing that if they were just restoring bugged or unused content, which there is a lot of in the files, including a lot of unused recorded dialogue. I certainly didn't expect they'd be calling back actors. I was a little hopeful after they got some of the companion actors to record some funny content based on internet takes about their character but to see Larian confirm this as a reality for the game is amazing. Especially Minthara most of all deserves a great deal of content and this provides real hope that it might happen.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jul 2023
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"The only reason to call actors back is to record new dialogue". Is that not what my second sentence says? The number of actors required would depend on how many different people Minthara or Karlach speak to in the new dialogue. The 'new' dialogue may consist of something as simple as changing the tense of a sentence.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Jun 2022
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Personally I hope they take their time to figure out a proper plan and story flow, and then execute it. Last thing that the game needs is more rushing because currently a lot of dialogues in the game feel like they've been spliced up together from different days in the studio, Halsin being the best example of this. Half his lines sound like he's infront of me and then the other half sound like he's in a cave or behind a door. Lets not also forget that his dialogues are not cohesive at all, same with Shadowheart who told me the exact same story about Dark Justiciars line-for-line 4 times throughout the span of ACT 1. Every time she starts the story, I'm like; "Oh boy, here she goes again about wanting to be a Justiciar..." A lot of scenes also do not follow the same dialogue tone or even story continuity, like our romantic partners being all mooshy and sweet and then the next day they're talking to us as if we're still strangers who aren't even romantically involved. I feel like romances should be time-gated more so such inconsistent tone-deaf scenes don't happen so much. As for the patch, I just hope the multiplayer thingy is not the only "feature" coming because lets be honest that's not even a community requested feature, that's the most obvious oversight that should've been in the game. Avatars of other players hindering gameplay and not being removable is an actual issue that wasn't thought of until the community pointed out, which is what playtesters are for. So I hope it's just one of many more coming with the patch, otherwise presenting it as a big feature would be like calling; "Made Lady Esther available to trade with after you've completed her quests." a feature, when it's just an oversight. Of course she should be tradeable. All in all looking forward to the patch, improvements, polish, features and such. It's a fantastic game that needs more cooking in the oven for sure
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Aug 2023
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Release date? Will the old save work?
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jul 2023
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Release date? Will the old save work? Did you bother to read the update?
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Aug 2023
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Can we also discuss how being "Evil" in this game is completely worthless and has no rewards as oppose to being good? Doing all the evil decisions has no upside with all of the downsides... It should have been somewhat balanced... You lose five party members if going completely evil, that is a lot and also a lot of quests/rewards you are missing out on. These characters should have been replaced with either more powerups/ more rewards OR evil party members to replace them. Very overwhelming and I feel like I am being punished for playing the game in a different way...
Last edited by Heisdarkness; 30/08/23 12:36 PM.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2020
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Some of you are posting valid feedback, sure, but holy crap some of you will NEVER be happy with the game. Ever.
This is why you don't buy into massive hype, you end up disappointed.
I've been playing it non stop for weeks, and I haven't finished it yet because I keep restarting. I love the game as it is(yes, I've seen all the endings and think they could use work, but I don't think they're the worst thing ever).
Upper City getting cut doesn't bother me in the slightest. It was probably a performance drain.
As for datamined content, F dataminers. Have any of you guys ever played say, World of Warcraft? The sheer amount of stuff that gets datamined there and then NOT released would make this look like insignificant crumbs. Weapons, armors, ENTIRE EXPANSION ZONES.
Starting to think some of yall are spoiled or something.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Oct 2021
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The Upper City should be in the game. It's a big part of Baldur's Gate, the city itself.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jul 2023
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Starting to think some of yall are spoiled or something. Or perhaps some of us have higher standards than others.
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Aug 2023
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I like that Larian is active, updates are coming fast, don't forget It's their biggest project so far, they are learming as well. Playing at a snails pace, haven't left act 1 yet, love the game. However, after reading and watching a ton of feedback on this forum and other places, during slow work hours, I'm almost sure that Upper City was cut last month before release because of performance issues, saying otherwise fells like a 1 deception roll to me.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Jun 2022
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Can anyone here confirm if this is in the game;
I was watching a certain streamer the other day and they were talking about how they came across a leftover area transition outline leading to the Upper City which they could click on, but didn't do anything because naturally there is no Upper City in the game... but apparently it's there and it wasn't removed properly, or something like that.
Is there really an area transition that was left in the game? I'm not in ACT 3 yet, so can't check myself.
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Aug 2023
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With the Minthara fix to be coming "soon", I'm left wondering if I should pause my run or not.
I just had Minthara join me, and I don't know if the fix would apply to my game or if I'd need to start fresh to have the proper experience.
Does anyone know? I personally wait for fixes. Still i didn't played as DU, and actually i travel with different companions. For Minthara, i can wait. Also with new fixes to lore bard + added sanctuary i wanted to check out this subclass once again from start to finish. There's so much to do in this game, i recommend to wait... and if you will continue then there's a high chance of missing something, we don't know what will be changed. The best solution is to be patient.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Aug 2023
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Awesome news for the Wither's wardrobe ! Now last big issue is having party members able to take over during dialog and dice rolls
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member
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member
Joined: Oct 2020
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Can anyone here confirm if this is in the game;
I was watching a certain streamer the other day and they were talking about how they came across a leftover area transition outline leading to the Upper City which they could click on, but didn't do anything because naturally there is no Upper City in the game... but apparently it's there and it wasn't removed properly, or something like that.
Is there really an area transition that was left in the game? I'm not in ACT 3 yet, so can't check myself. While I've not heard of that specifically, there has been some comments from dataminers on Reddit that indicate the files have something like that for BG_WYRM, BG_LOWER, BG_END, and BG_UPPER. Wyrm is Wyrm's Crossing. Lower is Lower City. End is the endgame gauntlet location. And Upper, apparently, doesn't appear to correspond to any map that exists.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Aug 2023
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Larian must really think that we are dumb. The amount of lies, condescending language and patronizing tone in this community post is off the charts...
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Volunteer Moderator
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Volunteer Moderator
Joined: Feb 2022
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Let's keep it civil and constructive, please.
"You may call it 'nonsense' if you like, but I've heard nonsense, compared with which that would be as sensible as a dictionary!"
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addict
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addict
Joined: Aug 2023
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I know its not according to the original D&D rules, but would it be possible that Bards can inspire themselves, too ? Bards are set up to be the ideal social interactors now, and everybody else can get Bardic Inspirations in dialogue from them, but for some reason you actually need a second Bard in group - for nothing but to ever get Bardic Inspirations on the first Bard ! I see no fundamental reason why that should be the case. Paladins for example can Lay on Hands themselves just fine. There are abilities that can only be used on others, like the Cleric spell that shares hitpoints with another character, but those exist for a reason. The rule that Bards can only inspire others but never themselves seems to be a relict from the times when D&D treated Bards very badly and they've been considered merely a sidekick. From what I can see, there is no actual reason why Bards should be unable to inspire themselves. Would accept no epilogue if it means we are definitely getting an expansion or sequel. ROTFL Well, I guess that would be a price I would pay, too. Dont think it works like that - but yeah. From what I've heard, an expansion isnt happening, but a sequel at some point is a possibility. Mind, BG3 was six years in the making, according to the OP. So that means if Larian Studios would decide to make BG4 now, it would go early access in 2026 and released in 2029. In short, dont hold your breath for BG4 too hart. Can we also discuss how being "Evil" in this game is completely worthless [...] Well, its the same as in BG1+BG2 then. Evil runs in BG1+BG2 have been a possibility, after all there have been plenty evil companions to imply it should be a valid playstyle. But in practice its a really painful thing to do.
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Volunteer Moderator
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Volunteer Moderator
Joined: Feb 2022
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I know its not according to the original D&D rules, but would it be possible that Bards can inspire themselves, too ? Bards are set up to be the ideal social interactors now, and everybody else can get Bardic Inspirations in dialogue from them, but for some reason you actually need a second Bard in group - for nothing but to ever get Bardic Inspirations on the first Bard ! I'd recommend starting a thread in our Build Discussion subforum (that we're also using for class implementation feedback) if you have specific suggestions about how Bard should work. We don't have a bard class feedback thread yet, but if someone creates one to get us going then I can sticky it for people to add to.
"You may call it 'nonsense' if you like, but I've heard nonsense, compared with which that would be as sensible as a dictionary!"
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Apr 2013
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Larian must really think that we are dumb. The amount of lies, condescending language and patronizing tone in this community post is off the charts... Calm, there is no need for this. Some things do look off, and it's entirely possible they can't tell us everything. But we can't assume they are lying because really we don't know what happened behind closed doors during the development. And ultimately, more than anything else, they delivered an amazing game and they are committed to fixing the shortcomings to the best of their ability. There is no need to attack Larian like this. Swen just said in an interview with PC Gamer that a bug was preventing about 1500 lines of dialogue and reactivity to not play and they may do more with Minthara in the future. And he also said on twitter they are bringing back a lot of the actors to record more stuff for the game...this will likely be stuff that will be added to the game later. Any other major AAA developer or major publisher would do next to nothing for a game past release...some minor bug fixes if you're lucky but a lot wouldn't even do that. So let's be thankful for and appreciative for the dedication and effort they are putting into getting this game just right even after launch.
Last edited by Darth_Trethon; 30/08/23 02:28 PM.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Aug 2023
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I am Sorry Darth_Trethon, we should never be appreciative for spending our hard earned money on an unfinished product. Imagine buying any other product on the planet and it not working or not being finished, you would not be very happy nor should you be happy with this. What's in the game currently may be good however, it is not finished not even close. You got and paid for an unfinished product with the HOPES of it one day being finished. WHY can we not get a finished product on release it is sad that we accept this in the modern day.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Aug 2023
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Starting to think some of yall are spoiled or something. Or perhaps some of us have higher standards than others. No he is right, people saying this is a broken game are just whiners. I have done 2 full playthroughs there is not a single game breaking bug I have encountered. If you think this game is broken you have cleary never played a broken game.see ac unity for a truly broken game.
Last edited by Mouthbreathereli; 30/08/23 02:47 PM.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Apr 2013
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I am Sorry Darth_Trethon, we should never be appreciative for spending our hard earned money on an unfinished product. Imagine buying any other product on the planet and it not working or not being finished, you would not be very happy nor should you be happy with this. What's in the game currently may be good however, it is not finished not even close. You got and paid for an unfinished product with the HOPES of it one day being finished. WHY can we not get a finished product on release it is sad that we accept this in the modern day. In its current state the game still delivers vastly more content and vastly more playtime than 99.99% of the "finished" AAA games out there and far more choice and consequence than all of them. I am extremely happy with the value I got for the money. The fact they are adding more isn't a bad thing in the least. The fact they are listening, responding, and putting the time, money, and effort into adding all that is a great thing, not a negative.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jul 2023
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javascript:quickReply(889015,1,0) And he also said on twitter they are bringing back a lot of the actors to record more stuff for the game...this will likely be stuff that will be added to the game later. That is pure fantasy and wishful thinking on your part. What the tweet said was "Thinking of all the actors we’re going to call back to the studio" nothing more, nothing less. "Swen just said in an interview with PC Gamer that a bug was preventing about 1500 lines of dialogue and reactivity to not play and they may do more with Minthara in the future." What is actually said is here: https://www.ign.com/articles/baldurs-gate-3-patch-2-minthara"The game is super reactive and there were a couple of bugs that caused some of the companions to not react as they should. And so that felt like the content was not showing up. So you weren't seeing it specifically with Minthara," Vincke explained. "So [lead writer Adam Smith] told me there's about 1500 lines of Minthara that weren't showing up as a result of a very, very stupid bug that we now isolated. So we're solving it." He goes on to add: "It doesn't help that some of her lines are not triggering. So that doesn't do her justice. But she never had a real actual quest — an origin quest... what you have for some of the others inside of act 3.. So people that were looking for that, it's just not there." Then you get a slice of Larian pie-in-the-sky about fixing the current problem and maybe putting in some extra content. "Any other major AAA developer or major publisher would do next to nothing for a game past release...some minor bug fixes if you're lucky but a lot wouldn't even do that." That is totally untrue but even if it were true it would not alter the fact that Larian released a game with over one thousand bugs (so far at least).
Last edited by Beechams; 30/08/23 03:01 PM.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Aug 2023
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I am Sorry Darth_Trethon, we should never be appreciative for spending our hard earned money on an unfinished product. Imagine buying any other product on the planet and it not working or not being finished, you would not be very happy nor should you be happy with this. What's in the game currently may be good however, it is not finished not even close. You got and paid for an unfinished product with the HOPES of it one day being finished. WHY can we not get a finished product on release it is sad that we accept this in the modern day. In its current state the game still delivers vastly more content and vastly more playtime than 99.99% of the "finished" AAA games out there and far more choice and consequence than all of them. I am extremely happy with the value I got for the money. The fact they are adding more isn't a bad thing in the least. The fact they are listening, responding, and putting the time, money, and effort into adding all that is a great thing, not a negative. So when you buy a computer, refrigerator, house, car etc you are okay with them being unfinished as long as they are more finished then the last garbage you bought? We have two entirely different standards then.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jul 2023
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Starting to think some of yall are spoiled or something. Or perhaps some of us have higher standards than others. No he is right, people saying this is a broken game are just whiners. I have done 2 full playthroughs there is not a single game breaking bug I have encountered. If you think this game is broken you have cleary never played a broken game.see ac unity for a truly broken game. Nowhere have I said the game is broken but there are plenty of people just on the forum who have had their game broken. Your "I'm alright, Jack" proves nothing. Even Hotfix #4 broke some players' games. As for some other game being a yardstick for what constitutes 'broken' - that is not any sort of argument. If I break my left leg in one place and my right leg in three places, my left leg is still broken.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Apr 2013
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So when you buy a computer, refrigerator, house, car etc you are okay with them being unfinished as long as they are more finished then the last garbage you bought? We have two entirely different standards then. Honestly that's a terrible way to look at it. When no other developer has ever done better yet you are still mad it means that you are upset over an expectation nobody can deliver. If you think that's not enough value for those money you can spend it on other far lesser games but you won't find better value anywhere else. No other RPG has ever delivered better and none will for many years to come if ever. And you should never be rude to developers who deliver this much both on day one or after launch. He said he is thinking about the actors they ARE going to call back to the studio...meaning is IS happening. And they're not calling them back just to chill. If actors are being called back it is to record stuff. And THAT is amazing, because that is stuff that will be put in the game.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Aug 2023
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So when you buy a computer, refrigerator, house, car etc you are okay with them being unfinished as long as they are more finished then the last garbage you bought? We have two entirely different standards then. Honestly that's a terrible way to look at it. When no other developer has ever done better yet you are still mad it means that you are upset over an expectation nobody can deliver. If you think that's not enough value for those money you can spend it on other far lesser games but you won't find better value anywhere else. No other RPG has ever delivered better and none will for many years to come if ever. And you should never be rude to developers who deliver this much both on day one or after launch. He said he is thinking about the actors they ARE going to call back to the studio...meaning is IS happening. And they're not calling them back just to chill. If actors are being called back it is to record stuff. And THAT is amazing, because that is stuff that will be put in the game. False. We should not and I will not settle for an unfinished product. Also they did in fact lie about the upper city. Check Community post 19 and you will see for yourself they did in fact lie. Maybe you get a very good feeling when people lie to you if so keep doing you, but I do not.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Aug 2023
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It's Absoloutely wonderful to hear that Karlach will finally get an ending that she deserves and Minthara will be more interactable.
But I really am not pleased with the response about cut content. You're saying that 'It's just important to know that what was ultimately shipped was planned long ago'. How is that possibly true? You said the upper city was explorable in community update #19 and two weeks before the launch of the game and constantly praised the huge number of endings available up to release. The cut was clearly sudden and not planned with Karlach's story being gutted as a result of losing the upper city (And perhaps Avernus?) as the worst example though other examples seem to exist such as Cazador and many many lines of dialogue no longer working due to them leading to upper city content.
I would hope that the missing epilogue cutscenes and ending options that were promised aren't missing because of this cut to the upper city too, that would make it even more painful.
The game is absoloutely fantastic and I've thoroughly adored my time with it, but that's exactly why it's so saddening that Act 3 is showing clear signs of damage from this decision and that Larian is seemingly not willing to admit that the content was cut only a few weeks before release. And if you were to believe that, would that not mean it was always planned to be taken away while having it advertised as being there? (17,000 endings / upper city)
It's a decent start, I'm very impressed with the speed of patches coming out. However, to me it feels like Larian made a great business decision (releasing the game to avoid competition) which was absoloutely the right choice, just look at the sales. But now they're refusing to properly comment on the rapid cut of a huge chunk of the game only a couple or more weeks before release and instead plaster over the gaping holes with small patches. I understand the decision, I don't understand the response at all; It's dissapointing to say the least, especially since I *know* Larian are capable of doing it, hell I'd even pay money for it if I had to, though I don't feel like I should have to.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Aug 2023
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Can we also discuss how being "Evil" in this game is completely worthless and has no rewards as oppose to being good? Doing all the evil decisions has no upside with all of the downsides... It should have been somewhat balanced... You lose five party members if going completely evil, that is a lot and also a lot of quests/rewards you are missing out on. These characters should have been replaced with either more powerups/ more rewards OR evil party members to replace them. Very overwhelming and I feel like I am being punished for playing the game in a different way... Absoloutely. It feels like there was meant to be a lot more going on with the evil playthrough / the absoloute in terms of the cults and such but it has been very much taken away at some point in development. The evil playthrough is certainly nowhere near as rewarding and just ends up leading to the same outcome for major plot points down the line anyway. A playstyle that's offered to you should not remove that much content without offering things in return outside of a different cutscene.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jul 2023
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He said he is thinking about the actors they ARE going to call back to the studio...meaning is IS happening. And they're not calling them back just to chill. If actors are being called back it is to record stuff. And THAT is amazing, because that is stuff that will be put in the game. A complete strawman as I have never said any of this. I am criticising your fantasising not whether actors will be called in. Your other argument about "no other developer has ever done better" is at the very least subjective. It doesn't have much going for in terms of logic either. Using my analogy of my broken legs, my left leg is in better condition than my right leg but neither is in great condition. I'm not interested in Minthara. I would much prefer a game where the camera is fit for purpose; where there aren't dice rolls on screen every two minutes; where you can grab your party with your mouse; where you can assign a formation to your party and a host of other actual gaming things. ============ Remember the Swen interview about the city having a thousand-plus interactable NPCs all talking away in the background making the city feel alive, etc? My guess is they suddenly realised that all that and some other technical problems they had caused performance to nose-dive. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Larian talk a good game.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Apr 2023
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[quote=Darth_Trethon]
I'm not interested in Minthara. I would much prefer a game where the camera is fit for purpose; where there aren't dice rolls on screen every two minutes; where you can grab your party with your mouse; where you can assign a formation to your party and a host of other actual gaming things.
============ Camera zoom out, improved inventory, ability to sell directly from bags, dedicated bags, automated self accumulation of objects in bags and inventory, party formation, reduction of junk, barrels, chests and so on.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Apr 2013
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A complete strawman as I have never said any of this. I am criticising your fantasising not whether actors will be called in.
Your other argument about "no other developer has ever done better" is at the very least subjective. It doesn't have much going for in terms of logic either. Using my analogy of my broken legs, my left leg is in better condition than my right leg but neither is in great condition.
I'm not interested in Minthara. I would much prefer a game where the camera is fit for purpose; where there aren't dice rolls on screen every two minutes; where you can grab your party with your mouse; where you can assign a formation to your party and a host of other actual gaming things.
============
Remember the Swen interview about the city having a thousand-plus interactable NPCs all talking away in the background making the city feel alive, etc? My guess is they suddenly realised that all that and some other technical problems they had caused performance to nose-dive.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Larian talk a good game. Quite a hostile response here. One of those replies wasn't for you, don't drag that into your argument and then accuse me of a strawman argument. And second of all I purely stated what Swen said, which is they ARE calling back actors which means they ARE recording more for the game which means they ARE planning to put more companion and party content in the game.
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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
Joined: Oct 2021
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Are we playing the same game? The overwhelming majority of features that were promised as of a few months ago have made it into the game. While there have been demands for certain features, Larian has never indicated that they were always going to follow popular demand. The only thing that seems to have been promised and subsequently cut is the Upper City. I contend that this is not an unreasonable expectation or something fabricated by the playerbase because it did not exist in BG1 and seems to have been originally promised, and such promises are the source of demands. Are there better quest endings and epilogues in order? Yes. However, this is not an incomplete game, and some of the complaints here are issues with the entire vision Larian had for the game, rather than legitimate complaints of incompleteness.
Remember the human (This is a forum for a video game):
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Volunteer Moderator
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Volunteer Moderator
Joined: Feb 2022
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I say again, as I said above ... Let's keep it civil and constructive, please. I assume people were so busy arguing that they didn't actually see my previous moderator intervention, so if that happens again I might need to give folk a break to catch up. Ideally, though, we'll just take feedback on specific elements of the game to the appropriate subforums, and disengage from any spats.
"You may call it 'nonsense' if you like, but I've heard nonsense, compared with which that would be as sensible as a dictionary!"
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Apr 2013
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Are we playing the same game? The overwhelming majority of features that were promised as of a few months ago have made it into the game. While there have been demands for certain features, Larian has never indicated that they were always going to follow popular demand. The only thing that seems to have been promised and subsequently cut is the Upper City. I contend that this is not an unreasonable expectation or something fabricated by the playerbase because it did not exist in BG1 and seems to have been originally promised, and such promises are the source of demands. Are there better quest endings and epilogues in order? Yes. However, this is not an incomplete game, and some of the complaints here are issues with the entire vision Larian had for the game, rather than legitimate complaints of incompleteness. I think a big point of contention for a lot of people are two big things they promised just two weeks before release that didn't make it into the game, the upper city of baldur's gate fully in and playable and 15 minute epilogue...now the epilogue will come...although it sounds like they're working on a different one than the datamined version, which will hopefully be better and Larian said they left it out because they were unhappy with the quality of the epilogue they had ready for the game. But the upper city it sounds like it won't. Maybe for the definitive edition but even that is probably too much to hope for. Personally I can live with it if we never get the upper city. Beyond that another major issue people had was some companions(notoriously Minthara and Karlach) were obviously missing a content, this sounds like it will be fixed in the near future with 1500 lines of reactivity for Minthara and one of Karlach's endings plus some epilogue for her set to arrive in Patch two. Personally my take is, for me to be completely content with the game I just hope for three things: 1) all of the Minthara content, though the more the better, 2) the epilogue for all companions, and 3) albeit never promised, some of the Raven Queen content from the game files realized in the game(again, the more the better) even if later in the definitive edition.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Aug 2023
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It would be useful to add a narrative ending.
It might be possible to consider restoring some of the "cuts", although I found some of them quite bold and inconsistent with the status quo.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Aug 2023
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What Larian did with this game in respect to Minthara and Halsin is the equivalent of an artist who smeared brown muck over their own painting because the viewers would not see the painting in the way that they intended them to.
Our artist, Larian, had announced the showcasing of their much-hyped painting and was worried that it was missing a sun and some clouds in this otherwise beautiful landscape. On the day of the exhibition, Larian nervously decided they would stick to the deadline and rely on the public's goodwill for a pass on the missing features.
Larian were pleasantly surprised at how few people had actually got round to noticing the missing features of their masterpiece, so decided to have a few drinks and whatever else, to celebrate having got away with it.
Then out of the corner of their eye they spot a group of viewers huddled around the picture, admiring two mis-shapen trees (Let's call them Halsin and Minthara) that seemed to capture the natural beauty of this work in an uncanny manner. Realising the geometric imperfection of the trees, and, by now, high on copium, Larian barged into the middle of the crowd, stuck their hand in a pot of brown paint, and smeared it all over the two trees, declaring that noone would see the painting in a way that they were not intended to.
Reeling in indignation, the viewers started to exit the gallery. Many remained to marvel at the wonderful blue sky before realising that the missing sun and clouds were actually quite jarring too.
As Larian pleaded for the viewers to give them another chance, the rest of these viewers slowly flocked out of the gallery.
They had heard of another artist down the road who was promising a sky with stars and fields with trees, and this artist was even promising that their viewers would be able to fly in those trees too! (If they really wanted to). Truth be told, there was no such field of beauty in those stars either.
Larian spent the next few years trying to paint a sun and some clouds over their blue sky. Over time, many would come to appreciate the 'original vision' of the artist. Many would even pay for subsequent expansions to this landscape.
But for some, the stench of that brown muck would prove too hard to forget.
Last edited by Shifter; 31/08/23 07:34 AM.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Aug 2023
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Question though: will we be able to change race alongside with our looks ? We can already respec at will, and change race at will with a spell/mask (but not with custom face)
That would be awesome
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
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We need more romance & kinky sex content ![[Linked Image from i.redd.it]](https://i.redd.it/dblucieahtkb1.jpg)
Thanks to Larian for Baldurs Gate 3 and the reaction to player feedback
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member
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member
Joined: Aug 2023
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Not sure about the part with Wither's wardrobe, but the fact is - he has narrated the last post-credit scene in my game absolutely naked.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: May 2015
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It’s just important to know that what ultimately shipped was planned long ago, in function primarily of making Baldur’s Gate 3 fun to play, not for us to close development quickly. So are you saying the upper city cut was planned long ago? The wording heavily implies it, but you can wiggle out of it with a "the upper city wasn't shipped". If the cut was planned a long time ago, it might be a good idea to explain community post 19 and why it wasn't made clear before launch that the upper city wouldn't be included. And if it wasn't planned a long time ago, it might be a good idea to change the wording in this community post. Mistakes happen but this would be a rather egregious mistake, made worse by not properly and fully addressing it.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Aug 2023
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So as a spoiler but have to say... From what i read in the patchnotes Karlach just got extra steps to her bad endings. She litearlly is the most good Character in this game and just deserves a good ending. Just give another upgrade , reuse the animations and DONT blow her up at the end... She can life with the character nice and happy. I mean i got 4 more metal for her its not really hard to get.... Please larian... don't give me the cyberpunkt ending style where evertything is loosing...
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Feb 2020
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Lol, the new patch is gonna make people furious. Not comparing BG3's ending to Mass Effect 3's absolute disaster of an ending in any way, but the way Larian is handling fan feedback is kind of similar to how the Mass Effect 3 Team did it back in the day: "Oh, so you didn't like Karlach's ending? We got you! Here are some cutscenes adding more details to the ending you didn't like."
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Jun 2022
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To be honest I personally wasn't expecting anything meaningful regarding Karlach because it's too soon to be anything in-depth regarding her endings, but I kinda do like what they said about it in the patch notes. The three musketeers in Hell is good enough for me for now There probably will be a better ending for her in the future, but not for at least a year or so. Most likely something that comes as a Definitive Edition thingy. As for the patch itself I'm always happy about the fixes and optimizations, but was really hoping for actual community requested features such as; - Transmog
- Character customization post-creation
- Vendor menu having functional inventory management as it does in actual inventory screen
- Camp party management
- Weapon abilities not randomizing every time we equip a Torch
- A Torch keybind
- And many more commonly requested QOL features to make the game more intuitive
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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
Joined: Oct 2021
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I'm probably going to make a longer post about this in story section once I've fully finished, but the "bad" ending for a particular character is on point when you consider a main theme of the BG3 story:
The essence of love is sacrifice, not victory or trade. One can define sacrifice as letting go of something you cherish highly for the (not guaranteed) hope of something you cherish above all else. ALL of our origin companions (and the PC) have to make this decision at some point, where they can "win" or "trade" something away for what they want, or they can sacrifice something they hold dear to hope for what they truly need. I'm worried that people demanding an unapologetic "good" ending for this character did not understand the story or her character and want a sort of "moral desert" for this character to trump the thematic storytelling at play. This character makes it abundantly clear where their true priorities lie, and an unqualified "good" ending makes their entire story superfluous, and just a personality stuck to a character model. If you remove the "bad" endings, this character faces no sacrificial dilemma in the game and undergoes no arc.
For those of you unaware of the concept of moral desert: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_(philosophy)
I'm one of the first people who critiqued the "bad" ending on the grounds of being an incomplete tragedy, in that there is no catharsis or "being one's own undoing." Those who are upset by what I am about to say can check the beginning of those threads in defense of this character. But as my game draws to a close, I disagree with what I initially said: this character does bring the end upon herself in a cathartic way, and it is thematically in line with the sacrifices other characters have to make. A good ending cheapens this.
Remember the human (This is a forum for a video game):
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Feb 2020
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Look, I'm not even a huge Karlach fan. I barely had her in my active party. But I DID care for her personal quest and to be completely honest, compared to other party NPCs, Karlach's quest really DOES feel incomplete. After Act 2, it just ... stops. Why? There is nothing in Act 3, am I right? Gale has his quest getting the book and his date with Mystra (Admittedly, this was super short and also felt kind of unresolved!)
Wyll has his questline of freeing his father / breaking his deal with Mizora, and finding the Dragon.
Lae'Zel has the quest for the Orphic Hammer.
Shadowheart has the House of Grief.
Astarion has Cazador
Jaheira has Minsc
Minsc has ... nothing really, but he's more of a cameo character anyway (not saying he doesn't deserve a quest)
Halsin ... was absent most of the time, because he got kidnapped, but yeah he didn't have anything in act 3 either. Kind of felt out of place in Act 3 to be honest.
Anyway, all of the origin characters had their quests continued in act 3, while Karlach's quest just stopps. She can confront Gortash, but that's it.
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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
Joined: Oct 2021
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Look, I'm not even a huge Karlach fan. I barely had her in my active party. But I DID care for her personal quest and to be completely honest, compared to other party NPCs, Karlach's quest really DOES feel incomplete. After Act 2, it just ... stops. Why? There is nothing in Act 3, am I right? Gale has his quest getting the book and his date with Mystra (Admittedly, this was super short and also felt kind of unresolved!)
Wyll has his questline of freeing his father / breaking his deal with Mizora, and finding the Dragon.
Lae'Zel has the quest for the Orphic Hammer.
Shadowheart has the House of Grief.
Astarion has Cazador
Jaheira has Minsc
Minsc has ... nothing really, but he's more of a cameo character anyway (not saying he doesn't deserve a quest)
Halsin ... was absent most of the time, because he got kidnapped, but yeah he didn't have anything in act 3 either. Kind of felt out of place in Act 3 to be honest.
Anyway, all of the origin characters had their quests continued in act 3, while Karlach's quest just stopps. She can confront Gortash, but that's it. COMPLETELY agree on the quest needing finishing. I just think the Return to Avernus with a friend (sacrifice the good life in Faerun) vs. Die a short but fulfilled life in happy Baldur's Gate (sacrifice her longevity for happiness) is thematically on point when you consider every other companion has to choose between two things, one they've always wanted, and the other which one can think is the "right" thing.
Last edited by Zerubbabel; 31/08/23 06:13 PM.
Remember the human (This is a forum for a video game):
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Feb 2020
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I'm probably going to make a longer post about this in story section once I've fully finished, but the "bad" ending for a particular character is on point when you consider a main theme of the BG3 story:
The essence of love is sacrifice, not victory or trade. One can define sacrifice as letting go of something you cherish highly for the (not guaranteed) hope of something you cherish above all else. ALL of our origin companions (and the PC) have to make this decision at some point, where they can "win" or "trade" something away for what they want, or they can sacrifice something they hold dear to hope for what they truly need. I'm worried that people demanding an unapologetic "good" ending for this character did not understand the story or her character and want a sort of "moral desert" for this character to trump the thematic storytelling at play. This character makes it abundantly clear where their true priorities lie, and an unqualified "good" ending makes their entire story superfluous, and just a personality stuck to a character model. If you remove the "bad" endings, this character faces no sacrificial dilemma in the game and undergoes no arc.
For those of you unaware of the concept of moral desert: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_(philosophy)
I'm one of the first people who critiqued the "bad" ending on the grounds of being an incomplete tragedy, in that there is no catharsis or "being one's own undoing." Those who are upset by what I am about to say can check the beginning of those threads in defense of this character. But as my game draws to a close, I disagree with what I initially said: this character does bring the end upon herself in a cathartic way, and it is thematically in line with the sacrifices other characters have to make. A good ending cheapens this. I'm not against a bad or sacrificial ending. But I would like to see a complete questline in Act 3, where we do everything we can to get a "good" ending, and besides our efforts, we fail. And we need a GOOD reason for why we fail. We meet many VERY powerful people in this world and we have access to MANY powerful spells. Off the top of my head, there are three suggestions on how to get a "good" ending. The game MUST give explanations on why none of them work with said character, otherwise, it remains inconsistent with the laws of the forgotten realms: 1. Wish spell: Either get Elminster (buddy of Gale) to cast it or make a quest on finding a wish spell scroll ourselves and then use it as a one-off to try and fix Karlach's heart.
2. Cast greater restauration spell on Karlach. Should grow back body parts according to the lore.
3. Get the Gondians to supply the means of fixing the engine. Again, it's fine if none of these things work in that particular case, but there need to be reaons WHY it does not work.
Last edited by SiriusVI; 31/08/23 06:21 PM.
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veteran
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Joined: Jun 2022
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Yeah it feels the same way to me, Karlach although is incredibly awesome doesn't feel as fleshy as other companions.
I romanced her from the start and have her in my party always, but she always feels like she is just a side-character tagging along, both in terms of adventure and romance. Lae'zel who I decided to co-romance just until Karlach is ready for it turned out to be such an in-depth relationship that it developed so much further that I was planning for it to go. Meanwhile Karlach is barely making any romantic moves even after giving her the 2nd iron.
And in terms of personal quests... Lae'zel and Shadowheart both have such massive quests which lead them to their own acts basically. Just look at how long Shadowheart's journal entry is... then look at Karlach who has only two puny lines (we defeated the fake paladins) and collected two Infernal Iron. Just sad really...
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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
Joined: Oct 2021
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I'm probably going to make a longer post about this in story section once I've fully finished, but the "bad" ending for a particular character is on point when you consider a main theme of the BG3 story:
The essence of love is sacrifice, not victory or trade. One can define sacrifice as letting go of something you cherish highly for the (not guaranteed) hope of something you cherish above all else. ALL of our origin companions (and the PC) have to make this decision at some point, where they can "win" or "trade" something away for what they want, or they can sacrifice something they hold dear to hope for what they truly need. I'm worried that people demanding an unapologetic "good" ending for this character did not understand the story or her character and want a sort of "moral desert" for this character to trump the thematic storytelling at play. This character makes it abundantly clear where their true priorities lie, and an unqualified "good" ending makes their entire story superfluous, and just a personality stuck to a character model. If you remove the "bad" endings, this character faces no sacrificial dilemma in the game and undergoes no arc.
For those of you unaware of the concept of moral desert: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_(philosophy)
I'm one of the first people who critiqued the "bad" ending on the grounds of being an incomplete tragedy, in that there is no catharsis or "being one's own undoing." Those who are upset by what I am about to say can check the beginning of those threads in defense of this character. But as my game draws to a close, I disagree with what I initially said: this character does bring the end upon herself in a cathartic way, and it is thematically in line with the sacrifices other characters have to make. A good ending cheapens this. I'm not against a bad or sacrificial ending. But I would like to see a complete questline in Act 3, where we do everything we can to get a "good" ending, and besides our efforts, we fail. And we need a GOOD reason for why we fail. We meet many VERY powerful people in this world and we have access to MANY powerful spells. Off the top of my head, there are three suggestions on how to get a "good" ending. The game MUST give explanations on why none of them work with said character, otherwise, it remains inconsistent with the laws of the forgotten realms: 1. Wish spell: Either get Elminster (buddy of Gale) to cast it or make a quest on finding a wish spell scroll ourselves and then use it as a one-off to try and fix Karlach's heart.
2. Cast greater restauration spell on Karlach. Should grow back body parts according to the lore.
3. Get the Gondians to supply the means of fixing the engine. Again, it's fine if none of these things work in that particular case, but there need to be reaons WHY it does not work. We are in agreement. I think the sting would be reduced if there was an adequate questline and rationale. The moment needs to be earned. Most, if not all, of our companions sacrifices occur before the very end of the game. This particular character's sacrifice is an afterthought that is a last second decision in the game. This character needs a questline in Act 3 and a means of earning the ending, and the decision for sacrifice needs a buildup and pitch before the endgame, not after.
Remember the human (This is a forum for a video game):
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Feb 2020
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Yeah it feels the same way to me, Karlach although is incredibly awesome doesn't feel as fleshy as other companions.
I romanced her from the start and have her in my party always, but she always feels like she is just a side-character tagging along, both in terms of adventure and romance. Lae'zel who I decided to co-romance just until Karlach is ready for it turned out to be such an in-depth relationship that it developed so much further that I was planning for it to go. Meanwhile Karlach is barely making any romantic moves even after giving her the 2nd iron.
And in terms of personal quests... Lae'zel and Shadowheart both have such massive quests which lead them to their own acts basically. Just look at how long Shadowheart's journal entry is... then look at Karlach who has only two puny lines (we defeated the fake paladins) and collected two Infernal Iron. Just sad really... Exactly! In fact, I wanted to romance Shadowheart and ended up with Lae'Zel, both of which were so well written into the main story, that I really had a great experience with the game, even with the ending, because the way Lae'Zel's story ends is well done, imho. And it can vary between happy, epic, bitter-sweet, sad, depending on your choices throughout the game. Had I romanced Karlach instead, I'd probably not have had such a great experience.
Last edited by SiriusVI; 31/08/23 06:29 PM.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Aug 2023
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We need more romance & kinky sex content Not gonna happen. For all the talk of "increasing Minthara reactivity" and whatnot in the "Looking to the future" sermon, there wasn't even any mention of her in the second patch. Some of us can't even recruit her, let alone experience her reactivity. Apparently Minthara doesn't like bears, that's her sole character motivation.
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veteran
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Joined: Dec 2020
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Sadly with the new patch, the performance is rather bad. ItsS nearly unplayable for me
"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."
Doctor Who
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Feb 2020
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Sadly with the new patch, the performance is rather bad. ItsS nearly unplayable for me It's supposed to be improved. Haven't tried it, yet.
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veteran
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Joined: Oct 2020
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I wonder ...
Does that mean that we can hope for Stat Rolling in some future update?
I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings.  Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are!
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veteran
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Joined: Dec 2020
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Sadly with the new patch, the performance is rather bad. ItsS nearly unplayable for me It's supposed to be improved. Haven't tried it, yet. Problem is solved luckily
Last edited by fylimar; 31/08/23 08:30 PM.
"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."
Doctor Who
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Volunteer Moderator
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Volunteer Moderator
Joined: Aug 2021
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This is a non sequitur post for two reasons: My machine can’t run the game; when you’ve got a brand, run with it. Looking back through the community updates, I believe this is the second time that Larian have directly responded to player feedback. The first was late ‘22 when they stated they wouldn’t annouce a release date for BG3 until they had met their own standards. More of this, please. More responses, more interaction, more insight into Larian’s plans and thought process. The way I understand Larian’s communication strategy, they value action more than words. They would rather implement real changes than post on hypotheticals. That’s understandable and, in my book, praiseworthy. But words fucking matter. (See what I did there, mods?) I know Larian know this, or they wouldn’t have spent so much effort bringing millions of words to life. So, while most community updates have been about how Larian are truly doing a great job, it’s actually nice to see a post saying “here’s how we’re interpreting feedback; here’s our planned response”. This is good. I’m praising Larian. This was what I was hoping for from early access. That ship has sailed, but a new one may dock yet. And that ship may need a more weathered captain: We’ll also be working throughout September to improve performance in Act 3 further with new technology that’s been taking a bit longer to release than we expected. It’s just important to know that what ultimately shipped was planned long ago, in function primarily of making Baldur’s Gate 3 fun to play, not for us to close development quickly. I don’t know who writes or approves of these posts, but direct contradictions like this aren’t a good look. The point here is that practice makes perfect. Larian are known for extensive rewrites to their scripts, which can’t happen in reactive communication with the community. What can happen is making this kind of post more often to get better at making them over time. Larian could make that an integral part of their next early access. Imagine if we didn’t have to wait for Swen Vincke’s Game Design Conference speech to find out why hide was turned into an action after 3 years of dead silence on the matter. I hope future Larian fans will get more insight into the games they love. I strongly believe that maintaining the level of communication of this update will benefit both Larian and their community in the long run.
Avatar art by Carly Mazur
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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
Joined: Oct 2021
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This is a non sequitur post for two reasons: My machine can’t run the game; when you’ve got a brand, run with it. Looking back through the community updates, I believe this is the second time that Larian have directly responded to player feedback. The first was late ‘22 when they stated they wouldn’t annouce a release date for BG3 until they had met their own standards. More of this, please. More responses, more interaction, more insight into Larian’s plans and thought process. The way I understand Larian’s communication strategy, they value action more than words. They would rather implement real changes than post on hypotheticals. That’s understandable and, in my book, praiseworthy. But words fucking matter. (See what I did there, mods?) I know Larian know this, or they wouldn’t have spent so much effort bringing millions of words to life. So, while most community updates have been about how Larian are truly doing a great job, it’s actually nice to see a post saying “here’s how we’re interpreting feedback; here’s our planned response”. This is good. I’m praising Larian. This was what I was hoping for from early access. That ship has sailed, but a new one may dock yet. And that ship may need a more weathered captain: We’ll also be working throughout September to improve performance in Act 3 further with new technology that’s been taking a bit longer to release than we expected. It’s just important to know that what ultimately shipped was planned long ago, in function primarily of making Baldur’s Gate 3 fun to play, not for us to close development quickly. I don’t know who writes or approves of these posts, but direct contradictions like this aren’t a good look. The point here is that practice makes perfect. Larian are known for extensive rewrites to their scripts, which can’t happen in reactive communication with the community. What can happen is making this kind of post more often to get better at making them over time. Larian could make that an integral part of their next early access. Imagine if we didn’t have to wait for Swen Vincke’s Game Design Conference speech to find out why hide was turned into an action after 3 years of dead silence on the matter. I hope future Larian fans will get more insight into the games they love. I strongly believe that maintaining the level of communication of this update will benefit both Larian and their community in the long run. Community interaction and company reactivity are probably the main reasons I like Larian. They make good games, but I'm not in Bethesda, Obsidian, or BioWare's forums. I'm here because Larian is quite responsive and apparently obsessive about getting the game just right. If the community has a problem with something, they'll look into it, while still respecting the integrity of their initial vision. On the other hand, direct communication is the best, and we don't always get it. So +1 to everything you've written. I'd be more inclined to support the next EA if it had the current level or higher of community engagement and company reactivity to feedback.
Remember the human (This is a forum for a video game):
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addict
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addict
Joined: Aug 2023
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Wouldnt justice for a Lolth Sworn Drow mean death ... ? I wonder ...
Does that mean that we can hope for Stat Rolling in some future update? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH !!!!!!! You can do whatever you like but I'm staying away from that. I've rolled enough stats in BG1+BG2 to last a lifetime. No, several lifetimes. Thank god for character editors ! And, in BG3, pointbuy.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Oct 2020
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You can do whatever you like ![[Linked Image from media.tenor.com]](https://media.tenor.com/AGJtiVVQMzYAAAAC/i-know-han-solo.gif)
I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are!
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jul 2009
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This is a non sequitur post for two reasons: My machine can’t run the game; when you’ve got a brand, run with it. Looking back through the community updates, I believe this is the second time that Larian have directly responded to player feedback. The first was late ‘22 when they stated they wouldn’t annouce a release date for BG3 until they had met their own standards. More of this, please. More responses, more interaction, more insight into Larian’s plans and thought process. The way I understand Larian’s communication strategy, they value action more than words. They would rather implement real changes than post on hypotheticals. That’s understandable and, in my book, praiseworthy. But words fucking matter. (See what I did there, mods?) I know Larian know this, or they wouldn’t have spent so much effort bringing millions of words to life. So, while most community updates have been about how Larian are truly doing a great job, it’s actually nice to see a post saying “here’s how we’re interpreting feedback; here’s our planned response”. This is good. I’m praising Larian. This was what I was hoping for from early access. That ship has sailed, but a new one may dock yet. And that ship may need a more weathered captain: We’ll also be working throughout September to improve performance in Act 3 further with new technology that’s been taking a bit longer to release than we expected. It’s just important to know that what ultimately shipped was planned long ago, in function primarily of making Baldur’s Gate 3 fun to play, not for us to close development quickly. I don’t know who writes or approves of these posts, but direct contradictions like this aren’t a good look. The point here is that practice makes perfect. Larian are known for extensive rewrites to their scripts, which can’t happen in reactive communication with the community. What can happen is making this kind of post more often to get better at making them over time. Larian could make that an integral part of their next early access. Imagine if we didn’t have to wait for Swen Vincke’s Game Design Conference speech to find out why hide was turned into an action after 3 years of dead silence on the matter. I hope future Larian fans will get more insight into the games they love. I strongly believe that maintaining the level of communication of this update will benefit both Larian and their community in the long run. Community interaction and company reactivity are probably the main reasons I like Larian. They make good games, but I'm not in Bethesda, Obsidian, or BioWare's forums. I'm here because Larian is quite responsive and apparently obsessive about getting the game just right. If the community has a problem with something, they'll look into it, while still respecting the integrity of their initial vision. On the other hand, direct communication is the best, and we don't always get it. So +1 to everything you've written. I'd be more inclined to support the next EA if it had the current level or higher of community engagement and company reactivity to feedback. If they were so obsessive then they would not have shipped bg3 in this state, "hinted" at so many things in their marketing that were not in the game like the upper city or consequences or made so many questionable decisions. They are so communicative that they did not even notice that their announcment of patch 2 is broken. No, Larian is just another company.
Last edited by Ixal; 01/09/23 07:26 AM.
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member
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Is it intetional that patch 2 thread is inaccessible?
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Apr 2013
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I've been waiting for the patch 2 thread to be fixed but it doesn't look like anyone at Larian noticed it's broken yet.
Personally I have to say I expected more from the "new" Karlach ending...it's not really a new ending, it just adds a couple options to one of the existing endings and expands with a bit of a cutscene that elaborates on what happens in the immediate aftermath but nothing about it feels good or better than it did before. As of now Karlach still doesn't feel like a companion worth bothering with. But still a lot more to come for the game in future patches.
But if this is the end of Karlach content I'm not too fussed about it personally, my eyes will mostly be on the kind of content Minthara gets, THAT will be the one companion content that will mold a lot of my longer term feelings about the game...her, the epilogues, and whether Larian implement any of the Raven Queen content in the game before support for BG3 ends.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jul 2023
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Larian are great at damage control. They respond to criticism by throwing the customers a few tid-bits padded out with pie-in-the-sky promises about what they will be doing at some point in the future.
To say that "they [Larian] value action more than words" is pure fantasy.
Do people actually believe tosh like this from any company? "when they stated they wouldn’t annouce a release date for BG3 until they had met their own standards."
Larian set a release date for the end of August then brought it forward by three weeks (for reasons unexplained). By the time we reached the original end of August date they had had to fix over 1,000 bugs.
We have now had 4 hotfixes and two major patches in less than a month. One of the hotfixes had to be fixed as did the first patch and now it seems there may be problems with the second patch.
"But words fucking matter." Yes they do but 'actions speak louder than words'. (See what I did there, poster?)
Since the early days of EA people have been asking for various spells, feats, etc. to be fixed or made to work as in 5e. They are still asking for most of them. Larian gives us a camp you can turn into a menagerie, the ability to choose different colours for horns and now Wither's Wardrobe. Larian really nailed the essence of DnD.
Last edited by Beechams; 01/09/23 09:37 AM.
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old hand
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old hand
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Personally I have to say I expected more from the "new" Karlach ending...it's not really a new ending, it just adds a couple options to one of the existing endings and expands with a bit of a cutscene that elaborates on what happens in the immediate aftermath but nothing about it feels good or better than it did before. As of now Karlach still doesn't feel like a companion worth bothering with. But still a lot more to come for the game in future patches. But what about what Swen said? What about all the battalions of actors Swen was bringing back according to you? But if this is the end of Karlach content I'm not too fussed about it personally, my eyes will mostly be on the kind of content Minthara gets, THAT will be the one companion content that will mold a lot of my longer term feelings about the game...her, the epilogues, and whether Larian implement any of the Raven Queen content in the game before support for BG3 ends. Ah, tomorrow. Everything will be fine . . .tomorrow.
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Personally I have to say I expected more from the "new" Karlach ending...it's not really a new ending, it just adds a couple options to one of the existing endings and expands with a bit of a cutscene that elaborates on what happens in the immediate aftermath but nothing about it feels good or better than it did before. As of now Karlach still doesn't feel like a companion worth bothering with. But still a lot more to come for the game in future patches. But what about what Swen said? What about all the battalions of actors Swen was bringing back according to you? But if this is the end of Karlach content I'm not too fussed about it personally, my eyes will mostly be on the kind of content Minthara gets, THAT will be the one companion content that will mold a lot of my longer term feelings about the game...her, the epilogues, and whether Larian implement any of the Raven Queen content in the game before support for BG3 ends. Ah, tomorrow. Everything will be fine . . .tomorrow. Well that stuff isn't going to happen overnight...calling the actors in to do more work won't have content put in the game in two days. At any rate, you really shouldn't try to re-instigate old arguments.
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Volunteer Moderator
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Volunteer Moderator
Joined: Aug 2021
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They are so communicative that they did not even notice that their announcment of patch 2 is broken. I think they made that thread inaccessible on purpose as damage control. The technical threads have been blowing up with complaints about patch 2. That’s pretty much exactly the opposite of what I was praising Larian for in my previous post. It’s not great, but I’d rather point out the positive aspects of Larian’s communication and request more of that than harp on failures. This is a critical time for communication. Larian want to avoid backlash and the reputation of releasing unfinished games, especially if Patch 2 breaks BG3 for a lot of players. It looks like the strategy is to batten down the hatches and release a fix as fast as possible. In this instance, Larian are opting for control over transparency; in that sense they are just another company. Still, they undeniably stand by verifiable principles (microtransactions, choosing not to release yet on Xbox). So maybe they could be coaxed into transparency because what used to be coy silence during early access (no spoilers, tee hee) now looks like obfuscation with regards to a released product. I’m sure Larian will put out a statement about patch 2 (they might have done so already, I take a while to write). I would encourage them to not wait for the hotfix to be ready.
Avatar art by Carly Mazur
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Volunteer Moderator
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To say that "they [Larian] value action more than words" is pure fantasy. I’m going to agree with a lot of what you say next, but not with this. The way I see it, Larian’s communication during early access was announcing new features in upcoming patches. All of those words were wasted because downloading the patch told us what there was to know. It was about hype, not information; meanwhile Larian were happy to stay mum about reactions for months on end while working on a fix in the background. I stand by my statement. It was a polite way of saying Larian don’t value direct communication very highly while acknowledging they do act in response to some feedback. Do people actually believe tosh like this from any company? "when they stated they wouldn’t annouce a release date for BG3 until they had met their own standards." In truth, that statement from Larian was kinda smug and repeating it now sounds sarcastic no matter the intent. My guess is they haven’t quite met their own standards with release, but I do remember believing that statement at the time. What you say next is true, but that doesn’t necessarily make BG3 a bad or incomplete game. If Patch 2 really is bad, though, that could spell trouble for Larian. "But words fucking matter." Yes they do but 'actions speak louder than words'. (See what I did there, poster?) No? I guess your point is you’d rather Larian hunkered down and finished polishing BG3; I think that’s their plan already. My point would be: while they’re doing that, they could keep us updated between hotfixes. Since the early days of EA people have been asking for various spells, feats, etc. to be fixed or made to work as in 5e. They are still asking for most of them. Larian gives us a camp you can turn into a menagerie, the ability to choose different colours for horns and now Wither's Wardrobe. Larian really nailed the essence of DnD. ^^ At this point, I’m looking to understand the design rather than change it. If stuff like multi-turn saving throws are fixed by the definitive edition, then great! In any case, BG3 will forever hold a place in my heart as that DnD game with no flight or fireball. P.S. Please look into accessibilty, Larian. I don’t know if volume of feedback matters, but I believe it’s important so I’ll mention it when I remember to.
Avatar art by Carly Mazur
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Joined: Jun 2022
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Personally for me Patch #2 runs slightly better, enough to notice a meaningful difference in smoothness. Though other than vast amounts of stuttering prior to Patch #1 and now Patch #2, I haven't had any other tech issues with the game. Zero crashes and such.
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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
Joined: Oct 2021
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I’d take statements that there are attempts to eventually fix or improve the game over the radio silence and abandonment most AAA devs give. I’m confident the definitive edition will be a marked improvement over the initial release, and that it will incorporate a modicum of player feedback, even if the current version shipped with significant flaws. They’re not perfect at all, but at least we will get something eventually, rather than nothing ever from other major studios. I’m glad they don’t leave fixing game breaking bugs up to modders unlike another certain company.
Remember the human (This is a forum for a video game):
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Oct 2021
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Regarding bugs, I'm glad Larian's addressing them.
That said, I'm curious about the quality of the playtesters used. I feel like Larian could have saved themselves an enormous headache by hiring a few of the folks on this forum to playtest the game. A lot of these bugs would have been found quickly.
I don't really bother reporting anything unless it's game breaking or painfully annoying. Some small things I just shrug off. Like the dead drow on the table with Nettie. In the cut scene, he's in his underwear. In the game, he's wearing pants, and if you use Speak with Dead on him, he's also wearing pants. Little things like that feel like oversights.
There are rare typos scattered about. I don't know if anyone bothers reporting those.
*
Regarding communication, I'm happy Larian is communicating.
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Regarding content, something like the upper city should have been included. It's a big part of the titular city, which should feel like a character in and of itself.
The flavor of the city ends up feeling watered down. I don't feel the oncoming threat of the absolute army. I don't feel the grip of fear that comes with knowing murderers are on the loose. I don't feel the burning divide over the refugees. And I don't feel anything at all from the upper city.
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Regarding Karlach, I don't really understand her, unfortunately. It seems some folks like her, but don't feel totally satisfied at the end with her. That's fair criticism, I suppose.
I wonder if that missing satisfaction might be coming from the way she's written?
For instance, she has this deeply tragic background. She has this burning anger within her. But *none* of that shows in her personality. So, while all of that is *supposed* to be part of her story, none of it comes across for the player. Instead, she's all happy to be alive and good natured as can be.
Things don't really work that way. Karlach should be scarred inside and out. Broken in many ways. Her arc should be learning how to live again, how to be normal again. The tragedy of what happened to her should be felt.
But instead, it's not. People see this happy character, full of sunshine and rainbows, and subsequently, they expect a happy sunshine ending.
She feels more like a writer's personal fantasy self-insertion than she does a real character, I'm sorry to say. (I love the writing of almost all the other characters. Karlach's feels *very* different to me.)
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Feb 2020
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Regarding Karlach, I don't really understand her, unfortunately. It seems some folks like her, but don't feel totally satisfied at the end with her. That's fair criticism, I suppose.
I wonder if that missing satisfaction might be coming from the way she's written?
For instance, she has this deeply tragic background. She has this burning anger within her. But *none* of that shows in her personality. So, while all of that is *supposed* to be part of her story, none of it comes across for the player. Instead, she's all happy to be alive and good natured as can be.
Things don't really work that way. Karlach should be scarred inside and out. Broken in many ways. Her arc should be learning how to live again, how to be normal again. The tragedy of what happened to her should be felt.
But instead, it's not. People see this happy character, full of sunshine and rainbows, and subsequently, they expect a happy sunshine ending.
She feels more like a writer's personal fantasy self-insertion than she does a real character, I'm sorry to say. (I love the writing of almost all the other characters. Karlach's feels *very* different to me.) The problem with Karlach is that her quest stopps after Act 2 and is unfinished. Every origin character has their quest continued and finished in Act 3, except for Karlach. And because of that, her story ends in tragedy and it feels like it's the players' fault for not trying hard enough. I'm not against a tragic ending for her, but I do want a finished questline in Act 3 and I want the world to be internally consistent. In the forgotten realms there is such a thing as a wish spell or true resurrection. The game needs to address why these things don't work.
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Oct 2020
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Can you please just fix the post about patch 2 notes for starters
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member
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member
Joined: Oct 2020
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Based on interviews and the art book, Larian didn't really know which direction to take Karlach. Apparently, she went through three significant versions. The aristocratic sharpshooter version who people through was an EA placeholder, the "Cool Karlach" who was a bit grimmer and tougher, and then the one we got, who was apparently pretty much based on the voice actress' charisma and delivery. Class-wise, they did not know whether she'd be a rogue (first version), sorcerer, paladin, or barbarian. Additionally, the general... oddities of the infernal engine idea (is it in her body, easily removed, why don't we ever see it? the cutscenes feel like something from 2010) make it clear it was a pretty late development. I think the voice actress has said she had no idea what the infernal engine was or that Karlach's chest was basically glowing.
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member
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member
Joined: Jul 2014
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I'd like to be able to make a custom party in future. This would greatly add to replayability.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Jul 2023
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Why there is no info regarding Mac release? Previously Larian stated bg3 Mac release will be with ps launch. Then they said something about „early September“. Now no info at all and it’s really sad. Give us info please!
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Sep 2023
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I’m very sad that Larian PR is throwing their developers under the bus. It feels like a complete lie saying that this is the way the developers wanted the game to release. Especially with the huge number of bug and performance fixes these devs have needed to release in the first month. Bless them for working so hard, it’s obvious they’re having to scramble to make up for a business decision. I would respect it a lot more if PR admitted there were business considerations in releasing the game when they did. That’s normal, so I don’t get why they’re blaming the developers for the broken state of the story and game: If this was always the intended game, why are there so many plotholes, references from companions to scenes that never happened, letters from hags who don’t exist, infernal metal that does nothing, tadpoles with no negative gameplay or story consequences, comically located coronations, dozens of dropped story threads, completely unreactive companions in later acts, etc etc etc. That’s normal, so I don’t get why Larian is hiding it. Honestly I’m not upset about the things they had to cut during the development process, it’s just the fact that there are so many clear last-minute amputations in the game that didn’t have time to heal, and Larian PR is trying to tell us this is what these gifted artists wanted to give us?
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Sep 2023
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The second is about the epilogue. What’s been datamined is not really cut content but content that we didn’t want to release because we didn’t think it worked. We’re pretty strict with ourselves and our ideas. If it isn’t good - if it isn’t fun to play - it doesn’t make it into the game. One of the reasons why we trimmed the epilogue is because we were afraid the ending cinematics were becoming too long and would detract from the epicness of the experience. But clearly, not everyone agrees with us! So we’re going to do something about it. Adding the fact that you said that the Upper City was intended to be epic and having an amazing cinetamtic, it's a shame that wasn't added for the official release. Personal opinion, what made the game such a wonderful experience for me were the cutscenes. I even found myself more intrigued and playing the companion quests rather than trying to reach the ending of the game. Exploration, improving your characters' relationship with the group, intriguing side quests,etc were one of the few things that made the game such an immersive experience (thank you adding Karlach a good ending in the near future). But if the team is worried the cinematics would be too long, you could add a button to skip them, maybe? I have reached the ending with around 142hs into the game. And not only the final scene felt truly lacking but also the amount out scenes with the group/companion(s) as well. I hope you are not afraid to add more scenes + improve the epilogue, and if we can have a sneak peak of the Upper City as well, it would be wonderful.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Apr 2022
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We need more romance & kinky sex content Here it comes! ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/dRNlvl8.jpg) No seriously, we need a hard priority for game mechanics and QoL features, people have been lurking here for a while and Crimson has listed some of them. As for the patch itself I'm always happy about the fixes and optimizations, but was really hoping for actual community requested features such as; - Transmog
- Character customization post-creation
- Vendor menu having functional inventory management as it does in actual inventory screen
- Camp party management
- Weapon abilities not randomizing every time we equip a Torch
- A Torch keybind
- And many more commonly requested QOL features to make the game more intuitive
Larian could pacify a lot more dissatisfied players at once with this.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Sep 2023
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DU / Minthara path players still get literally nothing past Act 1. In the Act 1 it seems so good but then the game abandons your choices and gives you nothing compared to other playthroughs, there is no reason to keep playing it past Act 1 so it's better to just drop the game unless devs will make this path viable someday.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Sep 2023
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Hey i was wondering because of the picture in your post if u know how to fix something that happened after I deleted some mods. I keep on spawning in a place with a bunch of naked med if I try to make a new game? Do you maybe know how to fix it?? Anything helps.. I’m desperate at this point.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Apr 2022
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Hey i was wondering because of the picture in your post if u know how to fix something that happened after I deleted some mods. I keep on spawning in a place with a bunch of naked med if I try to make a new game? Do you maybe know how to fix it?? Anything helps.. I’m desperate at this point. Steam *Log in to your Steam account from the Steam client. *Open your Steam Library. Click the Library tab. ... *Right-click the appropriate game, and then click Properties. ... *Click the Local Files tab. *Click Verify integrity of game files. ... *After the files are successfully validated, close the Properties window. Or delete the game entirely: https://www.gamesradar.com/baldurs-gate-3-save-location/ Then re-install it. Otherwise no idea. It's "Larianism"  No seriously. Hands off mods. There are Hotfixes & Patches but the bugtracker grows and grows... Buggers Gate 3 is not ready for it yet.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Sep 2023
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Thank you! I really appreciate your help tho
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addict
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addict
Joined: Aug 2023
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I mostly just want my Bard being allowed to inspire himself. Thats the one oddity that really keeps bugging me about Bards. I just see no reason why they can inspire others, and with a huge buff no less, but for some reason never themselves. I dont know any other ability in D&D with such a weird limitation.
Warding Bond from Cleric for example, well that makes sense that you cant cast that on yourself. It would literally do nothing at all.
You can however Enhance Ability on yourself just fine. Paladins can Lay On Hands themselves just fine. Etc.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Sep 2023
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May I know why none of you at Larian say a word about the Mac version? Not a piece of news, not a date, nothing certain... You're not making a fool of us
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Mar 2021
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Still no news on the XBOX release date, I see?
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Sep 2023
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Still no news on the XBOX release date, I see? This is doing immense psychic damage to me as well. I'm begging for any news on this.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Sep 2023
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May I know why none of you at Larian say a word about the Mac version? Not a piece of news, not a date, nothing certain... You're not making a fool of us I don't think they could since you already bought that Mac.
Last edited by daneyuleb; 13/09/23 08:43 PM.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Sep 2023
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Oct 2017
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Shall we finally be able to use FSR2 and not the super obsolete FSR1 with patch 3? Thanks
Last edited by savior; 14/09/23 08:10 AM.
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member
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member
Joined: Aug 2023
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To be honest, except for super ugly visuals, I cannot see any performance improvement with FSR. The problem is not even FPS, it's huge FPS drops, i.e. the stability of performance. I am not sure FSR2 would fix it, at most it just won't look so ugly.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Sep 2023
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I'm hoping beyond hope that this next patch actually makes couch co-op work like it did in their Divinity games, but I have a bad feeling it won't.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Sep 2023
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Having played BG1/2 when I was a wee lad, I was excited when BG3 came out. After playing through it several times, I gotta say that while acts 1 and 2 were pretty good - act 3's flaws made the rest of the game feel inadequate. Major Spoilers coming in. My major complaints: - Emperor ending is just bad writing. It makes 0 sense thematically that he would just "ope, guess I'm team mind-flayer now too, cause reasons".
- The fact that there is no alternative to the mindflayer plotline. You spend an entire 100 hours fighting against them, only to be shoehorned into "you're either with us, or Orpheus is."
- Karlach ending being what it was on launch. Like come on. That's a major plot hole. We spend all of this time fixing her engine, only for you guys to let it blow up with no alternative? I know you've fixed it now, but seriously, make that make sense to release that, like that.
- Companion endings are super lack-luster. You have spent all of this time with these people, saving the world, battling evil and half of them are just like "Welp. Later dude!" and just dip.
- Minthara as a companion genuinely feels like you guys are messing with me. To get her as a companion, you have to lock yourself out of so much content that it's not even funny. If you go an evil run, by the time you get to her, she's no longer evil. Like what is the point of that? She goes from a super Dom to a Beta Cuck almost immediately.
- There is no evil path in this game, only evil flavored water.
- Act 3 performance is atrocious.
- Gortash is a limp noodle of a villian, and could honestly be removed from the game entirely and it wouldn't really make a difference. He's supposed to be this young suave charismatic villian, but instead we got Steven Seagal. Someone who thinks super highly of themself but at the end of the day, is kind of just bad at what they do. Plus dude looks like he's pushing 45 with his Final Fantasy XIV outfit. Legit looks like you guys ripped graphics from XIV. Also, it's hilarious that his entire plotline happens inside of a single room of a prison. Like the watchers are all around the city, but with the exception of two encounters, you can pretty much ignore them entirely and it does not affect the plot whatsoever.
- The game just ends. You've spend 100 hours doing something amazing and saving the world, and the best we get is a 30 second clip of Withers trash talking the 3 dead gods.
- It truly feels like none of my choices in the game matter, because at the end of the day - I get the same ending choices no matter what I do. The only flavor I really have is who is with me, and who I have or have not killed along the way. That's it. I've played cheap AVN games that have more diversity and plot response to player choices than BG3, and they have no budget by comparison, nor were they in EA for as long as BG3.
- The inventory system is straight trash. Idk why you guys keep using it. Having played BG3 & now am playing DOS2, you guys got to move into the 21st century when it comes to your Inventory management. Half the game should not be based around how to manage your growing inventory. Because honestly, half of the stuff that you can craft is pretty pointless and just allows you to save space by crafting it.
And it's honestly disappointing that you guys knew you could get away with shipping a half-baked product because you would have additional time to patch it. It makes the fact that you released the game 4 weeks early to beat Starfield all the more obvious and gross. Praise should be given to you for the good work you did in Acts 1 and Acts 2 (mostly), but I think GOTY can wait until you finish the game. Properly.
Last edited by Neekio; 15/09/23 01:43 AM.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Oct 2023
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Hello!
As I’m sure most of you have played this game several times now, I am still anxiously awaiting its release on Xbox. I cannot seem to find any information about the current status or an actual release date, so I figured I would ask here.
What is the status of BG3’s release on Xbox?
Thanks for your time!
Now if you’ll excuse me, *cries in Xbox*
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Oct 2023
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I just wanna hear some news about the FSR update........ bit overdue? Any kind of news would be great. cheers
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member
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member
Joined: Jan 2021
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Hello!
As I’m sure most of you have played this game several times now, I am still anxiously awaiting its release on Xbox. I cannot seem to find any information about the current status or an actual release date, so I figured I would ask here.
What is the status of BG3’s release on Xbox?
Thanks for your time!
Now if you’ll excuse me, *cries in Xbox* PC MASTERRACE.
Ì¿Ì¿ Ì¿Ì¿ Ì¿Ì¿ Ì¿'Ì¿'\̵͇̿̿\з=( Í Â° ÍŸÊ– ͡°)=ε/̵͇̿̿/'Ì¿Ì¿ Ì¿ Ì¿ Ì¿
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Jun 2022
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What is the status of BG3’s release on Xbox? they have not got it working yet but they also have not given up
Luke Skywalker: I don't, I don't believe it.
Yoda: That is why you failed.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Oct 2023
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Hello!
As I’m sure most of you have played this game several times now, I am still anxiously awaiting its release on Xbox. I cannot seem to find any information about the current status or an actual release date, so I figured I would ask here.
What is the status of BG3’s release on Xbox?
Thanks for your time!
Now if you’ll excuse me, *cries in Xbox* Of what I got from all the interviews with Vincke since microsoft noticed how huge success the game was, they stopped being stubborn jacks about parity between X and S and xb version will be released without split -screen on S, somewhere in 2023 hopefully before end of november (as Vincke said between september and november). That would be pretty awesome IF we ever get any info, but I suppose there are some silent fights between MS and Larian and I afraid that we will lose by having no release at all because this silence for a month now (last interview was before PS5 launch) is very ominous. I am also Xbox user, and if I get any lessons from this is to stop believing ms in anything that try to say "we care for our users", they never did and it does not changed.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Oct 2023
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This silence from Larian this past month+ is bull plop.
Complete lack of transparency with expected fixes/updates... example; FSR update...
Larian has dropped the ball here.
Last edited by Motojunkie86; 16/10/23 09:58 AM.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jul 2009
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This silence from Larian this past month+ is bull plop.
Complete lack of transparency with expected fixes/updates... example; FSR update...
Larian has dropped the ball here. Larians communication has never been good or even truthful. Explore the Upper City, tadpole consequences, we fixed Minthara,.... I have no idea why people think or expect them to have good communications when they used this bad of corporate marketing speech.
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Mar 2021
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This silence from Larian this past month+ is bull plop.
Complete lack of transparency with expected fixes/updates... example; FSR update...
Larian has dropped the ball here. I'd expect they are crunching hard for the XBOX release to get it out this month.
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Bard of Suzail
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Bard of Suzail
Joined: Oct 2020
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I appreciate they are working hard, but since the company tends to be "radio silent" on the various conversations among the community, at least a once a month community update is not an unreasonable request of Larian. We are now closing on 2 months since this post was made, perhaps they should let one person have 15 minutes or so to let the community know what is going on. I am sure they have a Community Management staff that is not a tied up in game creation and could spare someone to make a post.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Sep 2023
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I appreciate they are working hard, but since the company tends to be "radio silent" on the various conversations among the community, at least a once a month community update is not an unreasonable request of Larian. We are now closing on 2 months since this post was made, perhaps they should let one person have 15 minutes or so to let the community know what is going on. I am sure they have a Community Management staff that is not a tied up in game creation and could spare someone to make a post. Even a moderator is calling them out on their poor communication skills. Wake me when Patch #4 gets here and their big addition is nothing more than being able to take photos of your party.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2020
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Larian never communicates on the forums outside of the occasional corporate speak or the rare community updates. On the VERY rare occasion, you will be asked for additional details when you post in the bugs forum…
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Sep 2023
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Patch 4 is likely to be more color changes no one asked for (not everyone likes to look like a clown, Larian), more armor design changes no one asked for, photo mode so people can post even more sexualized screenshots of their tattooed evil edgelords almost naked, another "we fixed 1000 bugs" and "introduced even more game breaking bugs without fixing the previous ones".
Instead of "hotfixes" with cat hairs and bad jokes, FIX the bugs. Instead of total silence until some fix/patch is out, give us an update. In fact, FIX the game instead of having the modders doing it. Instead of listening to loud minorities screaming about "cat hairs", listen to the majority talking about bugs and improvements to the game.
Do I sound annoyed? That's because I am.
I gave up trying to play the game on anything other than Patch 2, Hotfix 5 due to all the bugs that P3 brought and Larian didn't fix. I just finished my playthrough, and BG3 is now shelved until the Definitive Edition is out. Even then, unless a lot is changed/fixed, I don't think I'll play again.
In general, I liked BG3 as a random RPG. I say random, because this game doesn't have any identity.
I still replay the OG Baldur's Gate games (not those weird revamps), I still replay D:OS 2... but I don't see myself replaying BG3 years from now unless the game changes a lot. I get it you have issues. A lot of us don't. Sure there are bugs but no more than other games out there. It is hardly exclusive to BG3. You go on like its an exclusive thing Also just because you don't like the way people play their games. Does not give you the right to judge people for how they play. If its fun for me to run around naked in camp I will do it. I finished it 5 times now and none of these major bugs popped up for me. Only a few small glitches here and there. I won't be surprised if these complaints are mostly from people with broken modded games. Im excluding console versions here. As they are a different issue.
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member
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member
Joined: Sep 2023
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Patch 4 is likely to be more color changes no one asked for (not everyone likes to look like a clown, Larian), more armor design changes no one asked for, photo mode so people can post even more sexualized screenshots of their tattooed evil edgelords almost naked, another "we fixed 1000 bugs" and "introduced even more game breaking bugs without fixing the previous ones".
Instead of "hotfixes" with cat hairs and bad jokes, FIX the bugs. Instead of total silence until some fix/patch is out, give us an update. In fact, FIX the game instead of having the modders doing it. Instead of listening to loud minorities screaming about "cat hairs", listen to the majority talking about bugs and improvements to the game.
Do I sound annoyed? That's because I am.
I gave up trying to play the game on anything other than Patch 2, Hotfix 5 due to all the bugs that P3 brought and Larian didn't fix. I just finished my playthrough, and BG3 is now shelved until the Definitive Edition is out. Even then, unless a lot is changed/fixed, I don't think I'll play again.
In general, I liked BG3 as a random RPG. I say random, because this game doesn't have any identity.
I still replay the OG Baldur's Gate games (not those weird revamps), I still replay D:OS 2... but I don't see myself replaying BG3 years from now unless the game changes a lot. I get it you have issues. A lot of us don't. Sure there are bugs but no more than other games out there. It is hardly exclusive to BG3. You go on like its an exclusive thing Also just because you don't like the way people play their games. Does not give you the right to judge people for how they play. If its fun for me to run around naked in camp I will do it. I finished it 5 times now and none of these major bugs popped up for me. Only a few small glitches here and there. I won't be surprised if these complaints are mostly from people with broken modded games. Im excluding console versions here. As they are a different issue. This is how I feel as well. I wish people would stop expecting games to cater specifically to them. BG3 is a great game that could use a few fixes here and there but certainly can't fix everything without time and patience.
#JusticeForAstarion
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jul 2009
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Patch 4 is likely to be more color changes no one asked for (not everyone likes to look like a clown, Larian), more armor design changes no one asked for, photo mode so people can post even more sexualized screenshots of their tattooed evil edgelords almost naked, another "we fixed 1000 bugs" and "introduced even more game breaking bugs without fixing the previous ones".
Instead of "hotfixes" with cat hairs and bad jokes, FIX the bugs. Instead of total silence until some fix/patch is out, give us an update. In fact, FIX the game instead of having the modders doing it. Instead of listening to loud minorities screaming about "cat hairs", listen to the majority talking about bugs and improvements to the game.
Do I sound annoyed? That's because I am.
I gave up trying to play the game on anything other than Patch 2, Hotfix 5 due to all the bugs that P3 brought and Larian didn't fix. I just finished my playthrough, and BG3 is now shelved until the Definitive Edition is out. Even then, unless a lot is changed/fixed, I don't think I'll play again.
In general, I liked BG3 as a random RPG. I say random, because this game doesn't have any identity.
I still replay the OG Baldur's Gate games (not those weird revamps), I still replay D:OS 2... but I don't see myself replaying BG3 years from now unless the game changes a lot. I get it you have issues. A lot of us don't. Sure there are bugs but no more than other games out there. It is hardly exclusive to BG3. You go on like its an exclusive thing Also just because you don't like the way people play their games. Does not give you the right to judge people for how they play. If its fun for me to run around naked in camp I will do it. I finished it 5 times now and none of these major bugs popped up for me. Only a few small glitches here and there. I won't be surprised if these complaints are mostly from people with broken modded games. Im excluding console versions here. As they are a different issue. This is how I feel as well. I wish people would stop expecting games to cater specifically to them. BG3 is a great game that could use a few fixes here and there but certainly can't fix everything without time and patience. So why do you expect it to cater to you? Its completely fair that players complain that limited resources are allocated to vanity projects which have nothing to do with rpg games instead of bugfixing (and there are enough texture bugs to keep artists occupied for a while). As for communication, no matter what you think of their business model, at least Paradox knows how to communicate with their customers. Thats what Larian should try to do.
Last edited by Ixal; 19/10/23 08:13 AM.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2023
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Any news about the next patch? It's been a month since last update.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Oct 2023
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5.2 million copies sold on steam @ $89.95 AUD alone.... that's roughly 467 million Australian dollars... Surely some people can be employed to help fix bugs, address the promises that have been made and help deliver information to the paying customers; and there be plenty of money left over for a bed made of cash for the main devs to sleep in? just seems like they are "taking the piss" at this stage with not giving any update at all as to promises made and game breaking bugs that are being constantly reported by people on steam... Unfortunately for me this is the first impression Larian has made as I have no prior experience with them as a company...
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Sep 2023
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Not to defend Larian's lack of communication but this is kind of their MO. Radio silence for a few months and then suddenly there will be a 10 gb patch that's like "btw we fixed 1,000+ bugs and also added some content, thanks for playing!". They don't really talk about what they're doing aside from some unofficial confirmations on twitter and maybe a community update once in a while. If it makes you feel better though in my experience the wait has usually been worth it.
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Bard of Suzail
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Bard of Suzail
Joined: Oct 2020
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Please refrain from personal insults, attacks and do not respond if it happens. Contact a mod for it to be dealt with.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Sep 2023
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You have to remember that Sony/Steam wants a patch/hotfix/change to go through their change control before releasing it (makes sense) which seems to take a bit of time to go through the pipeline.
Seems like Larian is forced to forego any proper DevOps or change control. The days of doing these large, bulk changes/hotfixes are over, but Larian cannot release 1000 individual hotfixes to Sony/Steam as they finish each one, so Larian is stuck having to submit the 1000 changes under 1 change control submission to Sony/Steam.
Who knows what type of cost is associated with these change submissions, I assume submitting 1 large change is cheaper than submitting 1000 small changes.
If Larian used their own launcher and BG3 were only available on PC? The current issues (such as Act 3) would be getting worked on, submitted, and applied daily as Larian would control the pipeline.
Since Larian relies on 3rd party platforms to host/launch their game, they have to follow the rules to release on those platforms.
This excuses the wait for changes/patches/hotfixes, but does not excuse the radio silence.
A vital key is the relationship between PR and the community manager, who then relays (what PR has approved) to the community to keep them updated.
A note explaining the patching process and mentioning a few upcoming changes to generate excitement, would alleviate most of this sourness coming from the community and build a great relationship for current and future product releases.
EDIT: I just checked.
The Community Manager here, Salo, hasn't logged in since Oct 6, 16 days ago....
Even if we play Devil's Advocate and assume Salo has 3 or 4 weeks of vacation to use; where is their coverage? I'm sure there's someone who can jump on and take over while Salo takes their well deserved break...
Last edited by Xzero; 22/10/23 01:41 PM.
Where's my Baldur's Gate 3 Xbox Collector's Edition?
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Aug 2023
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Confess despite 442 hours invested (I know this is nothing in comparison to many people) and 2 characters on the go at the moment, I've still not finished the game because I'm anxious about Ending Disappointment. I thought I should also start new character to take advantage of the bug fixes etc, but didn't want to burn out because I LOVE the game. I'd really appreciate an update about what's coming in the future to (maybe?) soothe my End Game Anxiety (first world gamer-problem alert, but I hope you get what I mean ) and to reinvigorate my urge to play. However, I'm still excited for the future of the game. ^^
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member
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member
Joined: Oct 2020
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The Community Manager here, Salo, hasn't logged in since Oct 6, 16 days ago....
Even if we play Devil's Advocate and assume Salo has 3 or 4 weeks of vacation to use; where is their coverage? I'm sure there's someone who can jump on and take over while Salo takes their well deserved break... Maybe they just gave up and started working on DoS 3 or BG4. The lack of communication in their own forums is disturbing. I remember, when Wo Long Fallen Dynasty was released. The community wasn't exactly happy, the game was suffering from severe bugs and many mechanics were kinda clunky. Team Ninja reacted not only by patching stuff, but also by providing a complete release time line until the end of the year with every major fix, changes, DLC and so on. That's customer service, dear Larian.
Last edited by Jones76; 23/10/23 09:18 AM.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jul 2009
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The Community Manager here, Salo, hasn't logged in since Oct 6, 16 days ago....
Even if we play Devil's Advocate and assume Salo has 3 or 4 weeks of vacation to use; where is their coverage? I'm sure there's someone who can jump on and take over while Salo takes their well deserved break... Maybe they just gave up and started working on DoS 3 or BG4. The lack of communication in their own forums is disturbing. I remember, when Wo Long Fallen Dynasty was released. The community wasn't exactly happy, the game was suffering from severe bugs and many mechanics were kinda clunky. Team Ninja reacted not only by patching stuff, but also by providing a complete release time line with every major fix, changes, DLC and so on. That'ts customer service, dear Larian. Larian always neglected the forum. To much criticism here. Reading the stream of praises and simping on Reddit is much more fun.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2023
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"Larian always neglected the forum. To much criticism here. Reading the stream of praises and simping on Reddit is much more fun."
Thats kinda the reallity indeed since last update they went Silence and i even saw in some other posts people saying that the Sven i beleave the Head of the Stuff even went on vacation..
so Yeah the Game its Not Finished not even Fixed and they broke even more since 3.0 so..
i Really dont beleave that this game will ever get a Fix for Act 3 or the Endings and they probably will just Move On with there lives after recieving so Much Praise from a Bunch of People that not even Beat the Game to actually see the Shit Show that act 3 and the endings are.. Shame Larian.. Real shame.
and indeed i dont Trust nor Beleave in Anything they say anymore about this game.
Last edited by Thorvic; 24/10/23 09:41 PM.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Sep 2023
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"Larian always neglected the forum. To much criticism here. Reading the stream of praises and simping on Reddit is much more fun."
Thats kinda the reallity indeed since last update they went Silence and i even saw in some other posts people saying that the Sven i beleave the Head of the Stuff even went on vacation..
so Yeah the Game its Not Finished not even Fixed and they broke even more since 3.0 so..
i Really dont beleave that this game will ever get a Fix for Act 3 or the Endings and they probably will just Move On with there lives after recieving so Much Praise from a Bunch of People that not even Beat the Game to actually see the Shit Show that act 3 and the endings are.. Shame Larian.. Real shame.
and indeed i dont Trust nor Beleave in Anything they say anymore about this game. Never finished the game eh ? Over 900 hours later and not one major gamebreaking bug. In any of my 6 playthroughs. Now I can understand peoples pc are different and then there is consoles so bugs may creep up but this game is way more polished than a lot of other games out there. And what is this about endings people. The game was made with its endings period. Where have you ever seen any company change endings just because someone out there don't like them. This is not a pick your happy meal at the drive through. People just want to complain about everything. Patch 3 broke absolutely nothing sorry not sorry. Does act 3 need polish sure but its hardly worth the constant whining. One thing I can agree on is that there should be more interaction with the community. They are way to quiet with information.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2023
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Yu Get Pretty lucky Then becouse in the 11 times i beat the game the only ones i never find any bug was in Lounch and 2.0, after 3.0 a BUNCH of stuff just went broke and in the worst way possible like even animations when speak..
(kinda pretty crazy like people speaking with me in telepathy haha becouse they are looking at me and the Lines are not going out..haha)
the Only way i find out to Keep playing without finding too many bugs was playing as Evil that indeed its a Far Less Buggy experince at the moment.
and the ending of the evil path feels better, actually is the only one worth anything for me at the moment.. but even this one kinda is rushed and incomplete too.. really sad.
i dont know for me Act3 and the endings was not made by the same people that made the act 1,2. thats why i beleave its sucks so much and felt rushed and empty.
Last edited by Thorvic; 25/10/23 01:10 PM.
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member
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member
Joined: Nov 2021
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"Larian always neglected the forum. To much criticism here. Reading the stream of praises and simping on Reddit is much more fun."
Thats kinda the reallity indeed since last update they went Silence and i even saw in some other posts people saying that the Sven i beleave the Head of the Stuff even went on vacation..
so Yeah the Game its Not Finished not even Fixed and they broke even more since 3.0 so..
i Really dont beleave that this game will ever get a Fix for Act 3 or the Endings and they probably will just Move On with there lives after recieving so Much Praise from a Bunch of People that not even Beat the Game to actually see the Shit Show that act 3 and the endings are.. Shame Larian.. Real shame.
and indeed i dont Trust nor Beleave in Anything they say anymore about this game. Never finished the game eh ? Over 900 hours later and not one major gamebreaking bug. In any of my 6 playthroughs. Now I can understand peoples pc are different and then there is consoles so bugs may creep up but this game is way more polished than a lot of other games out there. And what is this about endings people. The game was made with its endings period. Where have you ever seen any company change endings just because someone out there don't like them. This is not a pick your happy meal at the drive through. People just want to complain about everything. Patch 3 broke absolutely nothing sorry not sorry. Does act 3 need polish sure but its hardly worth the constant whining. One thing I can agree on is that there should be more interaction with the community. They are way to quiet with information. I would not go as far as to say that it didn't break anything. I have mid to high end rig, I do NOT have any performance problems, but then again I didn't have them from the release. But patch 3 introduced door bug, strange ox bug, half cutscenes are broken... sure they are not game ending bugs, you can go on without Dammon or get used to see people twist and stretch and get obscured by things in the cutscenes... But I never had these problems prior to patch 3, I had to revert back to patch 2, because these little things were annoying. My game is not modded.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2023
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Man just Curiosity How did yu roll back to 2.0 ?
(please save me xD)
i Looked a lot at Steam to Do the Same thing and keep playing but they did not Gave us the Option like in the other games have beta version (old patches)
i always do this for games when they release some F. update but in BG3 dont have.
(BTW i dont like mods too.. im maybe too old but back in a day i had some pretty F. up experince using then u know its safer nowadays but the fear stays.. i always avoid unless its something pretty F. unique or cool for the game)
Last edited by Thorvic; 25/10/23 01:24 PM.
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member
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member
Joined: Nov 2021
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Man just Curiosity How did yu roll back to 2.0 ?
(please save me xD)
i Looked a lot at Steam to Do the Same thing and keep playing but they did not Gave us the Option like in the other games have beta version (old patches)
i always do this for games when they release some F. update but in BG3 dont have. I can't remember which one I used, but I think they might be similar in the way they work. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post links to the guides on Steam. If not I'll be happy to remove my post. Don't want to break the rules.
Last edited by andromeda087; 25/10/23 01:27 PM.
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member
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member
Joined: Nov 2021
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(BTW i dont like mods too.. im maybe too old but back in a day i had some pretty F. up experince using then u know its safer nowadays but the fear stays.. i always avoid unless its something pretty F. unique or cool for the game) Oh, I'll mod the game alright. I had around 50 mods running during EA and didn't have a single problem. I'm just waiting for Larian to stop patching the game and then I'll have my FUN 
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member
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member
Joined: Oct 2020
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Never finished the game eh ? Over 900 hours later and not one major gamebreaking bug. In any of my 6 playthroughs. Now I can understand peoples pc are different and then there is consoles so bugs may creep up but this game is way more polished than a lot of other games out there. And what is this about endings people. The game was made with its endings period. Where have you ever seen any company change endings just because someone out there don't like them. This is not a pick your happy meal at the drive through. People just want to complain about everything. Patch 3 broke absolutely nothing sorry not sorry. Does act 3 need polish sure but its hardly worth the constant whining. One thing I can agree on is that there should be more interaction with the community. They are way to quiet with information. Just be happy. Patch 3 corrupted ALL of my save games. Starting a new game I encountered way more bugs then ever before and that ox killing Dammon is a showstopper for me. I'm not accepting to be locked out of quests because of non-existing QA at Larian.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2023
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True i lost a Bunch of Saves too becouse of Patch 3.0 thats why i have beated 11 times..
have to redone all my Builds from zero again.. kinda anoying. but ok shit happens i know.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Oct 2023
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I hope we're not going to have to wait long before the promised updates. The ending & epilogue during my first playthrough was such a letdown. Geez, most of Episode 3 was a letdown in comparison to 1 & 2. It left me wanting so much more than we got, more dialog and interaction with our companions, the Upper City, better ending for Karlach, etc. I was hopeful when I read the promised updates in the first post, but I thought we'd hear something about it by now. I'm reluctant to finish my second playthrough until we get this update.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Oct 2023
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The actual current support from the Larian team regarding the sheer amount of people that are having major problems with this game is insane. I am so disappointed in Larian as a company. If the reason is because people are on holidays; then that is not good enough. Many of us have worked for many different companies, and when there is deadlines and important things to do, no one goes on holidays until it's done or the deadlines are met; Programming and developing should be no different. There are forums and message boards/discord channels littered with people complaining about how the game is unplayable or broken in some aspects that are not allowing them to continue playing the product they PAID for....
This experience has left me with a very sour taste in my mouth regarding Larian.
Rather frustrated....
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member
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member
Joined: Nov 2021
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There is a post on Reddit showing a screeshot of what is supposedly a patch 4 files uploaded on Steam for a playtesting. Files where uploaded on 19th of October. If that is indeed the patch then I think it's coming rather soon.
I wouldn't be surprised if Larian is taking the testing slowly and thoroughly this time, considering the disaster that the patch 3 was.
Fingers crossed that it'll be released tomorrow!?
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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2023
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Well if thats indeed true that would Be Great man.. for real..
i really wish i could just Make my last Game to move on with my life..
(and regarding the rest of things that i wish this game made better i dont beleave we will ever get like act 3 or a little bit better ending like some lazy slides would be great but.. dont beleave anymore that we will ever get..)
so just like a said.. i just want the game working so a can try one last time and move on..
(like others told already i have the same feeling, the game left me with a really bad taste in my mouth especially the ending..felt like a Slap in a face after act 1,2 so i just have to move on yu know ? dosent really matter anymore if they did something better.)
and Indeed was the Better game i played in Years dont know maybe 10 if im not mistaken im kinda really old and nowadays games dosent really make me enjoy then..
But Only act 1.2 the rest.. just forget turn off your brain and yu will be ok..
Last edited by Thorvic; 26/10/23 01:14 PM.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Oct 2023
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Just had a look and found the post you are referring to; I was hoping it showed what some of the fixes were, it didn't. But I see it has been getting updated every 5 or so days. Unfortunately this is the same patch that had October 15 on it too which is now october 19 last updated, so I guess the playtesting is finding that the fixes weren't actual fixes, or the playtesting is taking longer than anticipated. I searched "bg3 patch 4" on reddit and found it "update on my previous post on patch 4 release". Not too sure if i can post external links here otherwise i'd link straight to reddit thread. I hope you are right and it's soon I just want that FSR update that was promised to be release nearly 2 months ago.... I mean modders did it in how many days.....? 0.o
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member
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member
Joined: Nov 2021
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Yep, that's the post on reddit. Yeah, I saw they updated the files, hoping they are fixing whatever the playtesters find. I don't think Larian can afford another botched patch.
We'll see, they seem to drop their patches on Friday, so we just need to wait.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2023
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Well that would be Great.. but i bet it will be on Next week..xD
Shit. cant wait to blast some things again.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Sep 2020
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Since last week, I have been through several game problems.
Latest one is once the game is launched, all I get are flashing lights on screen, some big some small.
None of the many suggestions on line mention this "issue", it makes the game unplayable thus far.
First time since I started that I have had any problems with the game.
pain in the butt
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Oct 2023
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Oooh, that's interesting, I wish I knew what all that stuff meant haha. Is there a new link every time for a different patch/hotfix? or can I go to that link all the time and I'll find all the latest stuff they are doing when i refresh the page? Cheers.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2023
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Man i really wish this Drops Today im since 3.0 trying to get back but as many aready point out..
the game its really in a bad State and like others told already evry time i try to start a new game i find more and more game braking bugs
(so far i only Managed to keep playing going full evil becouse its the Less Buggy yu know.. yu just play like Doom Slayer man kill evrything that moves and the game run nice.. becouse yu kill evrybody theres no buggy quest.. evrybody is dead.)
But im actually in a let down already with this game and i dont really expect that much from larian anymore..
i will just be happy if they at least Fix what they broke in the game with 3.0 just so can i give 1 Last Shot at this Thing and Move On..
(and i dont really expect nothing from this game anymore becouse i already notice that we are the Minority yu know.. All yutubers and the Giants that could actually change our situation with this game are only Praising then and calling then the Game Changer of the Industry Kinda funny when yu stop to think.. this game is great indeed but only act 1,2 the rest its unfinished and incomplete just like any other yu know..xD, why they dont talk about that then ?, i guess this dont give then Views or Money thats why. xD)
Just Yeasterday i was seeing that Dude i Beleave its Legacy Kill HD something like that..
Just take a look at his Video.. Such a Bad Joke man..
i bet the dude never even left act 1 to think the way he thinks..
(and dont beleave yu can comment ok he deletes any coment that goes against his view.. his that kind of youtuber)
Last edited by Thorvic; 27/10/23 02:55 PM.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Sep 2023
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The last major patch we got (Patch 3), they announced it and gave a date like a week later. I highly doubt Patch 4 will just drop without them announcing it first.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2023
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Yup i already told that here too..
if they realase any Patch to fix the amount of stuff that are broken they will do Next Mounth, i bet in the Same day they Release the patch 3.0
and espeacially if what evrybody is saying is truth that they are on Break, Vacation that would be the case..
they will never waste there time trying to fix anything especially the way people are praising then at the moment..
they will just Wait for the Storm to went down a litle or when the Youtubers start to call then out about the way things are.. they will make there move..
thats how a company do things guys.. dont beleave that they are Trully Pro Gamers such thing dosent exist nowadays ok.. Never Trust that in Any Company.
(the disappointment is always Less when yu dont expect nothing from people trust me.)
Last edited by Thorvic; 27/10/23 05:26 PM.
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Oct 2023
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Bard of Suzail
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Bard of Suzail
Joined: Oct 2020
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I am wondering if part of the delay is the work on XBox. Remember anything they fix now needs to be fixed on Playstation, Apple and PC but now they have Xbox close so this adds another platform for validation. dont beleave that they are Trully Pro Gamers such thing dosent exist nowadays ok.. This statement is simply not true. I have been working in the industry directly for over a decade and while a "lot" of the people on hardware and software sides do not actually game or only do so casually, there are still many of us that are hardcore. I put in 4 hours or so of gaming during the week at a minimum and spend 10 or so hours each day on the weekends. Gaming is more of a life style for me. I use gaming for my entertainment, watching almost no TV.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2023
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I beleave that yu understand me wrong bro..
or maybe i cold not say it in a proper way becouse english its not my main language..
but what i mean its that no Company will keep open if they Go all out with Players Wishes
(thats why i told they are not True Pro Player get it ?)
yu have always to satisfie the Higher ups.. or they will cut of investment..
i used to work on companys not gaming ones.. even had 1 of my own back in a day..
thats why i say that.. im not meaning that they hate us or anything like that..
(becouse some of then they trully hate us trust me.. they saw theses forums like just winning babys..haha)
And thats why i dont really Trust that Larian will actually delivery what all people want out from the game..
thats kinda sad but i actually understand this pretty well.. yu just cant satisfie all sides its just that..
(thats why i always say to people tone down just a litle bit on expectations.. becouse will hurt less this way.. it sux yeas it sux but its best i beleave.)
becouse if they Really gave us Something cool will came out like something unexpected.. and the feeling its always better.
BTW sorry for my poor english its really hard for me actually put on words what i really want to say..
and sorry if i ofend anybody becouse of that .. thats not my intention in any way.
(Im really just Trying to Help the People that get the same feeling as me playing this game . Empty..)
and as far as i saw im not the manority anymore.. and evryday just Grow.. just take a Look on Reddit or Here
in just 2 weeks Bunch of People are reaching the end and bang. Slap in a Face.
(and indeed there are cool endings in the game ok im not saying that all of then are shit.. but the good ones sux really bad.. the Dark Ones are Perfect in my opinion its the Only ones that Are worth get.. and thats the real problem in the room in my opinion if the game gave yu two sides two play why not Two decent endings ? kinda forces yu to go only one way with the game and thats SUX. The Choice is Evrything.. and yu only get this for real in Act 1,2 )
And Fun Fact: almost ALL people that are actually Happy with this game at the Moment were the ones that went All Evil in the first gameplay Funny thing.. hauhauhauh
(like playing as Durge.. Guys want be happy playing this game Just Go with if.. stop listen people saying otherwise.. and yu will love the game..haha)
until they Do anything Better theres no other way to Have Fun..
in My Last Game i Just Went like i was the Doom Slayer man and it Felt GREAT>
i even went Solo like a True Souls Player just to Have some Challenge. lol
The Blood God will Protect Yu. Praise the Sun \0/
i never felt so happy been a cyco evil scumbag in a game..haha
and if yu wanna Have Real Fun and Lought your ass off just go with the Durge instincts most of times yu will lought your ass off..haha
Just Kill Evrything that Moves. Trust Me worth a Lot.. just for the Challange.
(and i really felt that i would Broke the game doing that.. nop. just go like a Crazy cyco and kill evryone.)
Lets Just Drown the Sword Coast in RIvers of Blood like a True Slayer..lol
Last edited by Thorvic; 30/10/23 10:02 PM.
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Bard of Suzail
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Bard of Suzail
Joined: Oct 2020
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I beleave that yu understand me wrong bro..
or maybe i cold not say it in a proper way becouse english its not my main language..
but what i mean its that no Company will keep open if they Go all out with Players Wishes I do agree with this, gamers are fickle and wildly diverse as a community, there is no way any company can go all in on Player Wishes and even if they did, the game would likely suck. And Fun Fact: almost ALL people that are actually Happy with this game at the Moment were the ones that went All Evil in the first gameplay Funny thing.. hauhauhauh
(like playing as Durge.. Guys want be happy playing this game Just Go with if.. stop listen people saying otherwise.. and yu will love the game..haha) This reads as a lot of hyperbole. I actually know few players that found the evil play through as enjoyable and none that I know that did pure evil from the start.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2023
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They really Liked ?
All my friends and the guys that played Esports with me (my team members..)
all of then Hate.. but when i told then to go like a Evil Scumbag..
man know they really are enjoying the game.. crazy thing..
was the only way for me to keep playing after the 7 time i beat the game
i just went all out and explore all evil sides possible
( and i Love the 2 evil Gale endings..pretty cool i wish i could kill the Lady if yu did yu will understand me.. Karsus the True Archwizard..)
(But the Durge. Shit. that thing was amazing.. like i sad i play him like a True Demon Came out of the 9 hells..haha)
first time.. when i get to act 3 evrybody was dead. haha no party F. That.
then i went back again and did the last One like a True Souls Player. ALL alone. and was A BLAST
maybe becouse i already played too much of the game.. but man i always were the Boss in the Room the entire time.
just Intimidate and Manipulate and Betray evrybody F.IT
(the only Challeng in this Game that i will never have the Balls to do its the Multi Class in evrything.. shit that will be too hard even for me.. i would have to plan the entire run from start.. my brain is too old for that already.)
But theres a Admin Doing it man.. Red Queen i Beleve.. Shit REspect guys Respect. lol
(i even gave her some Itens she can Try to use in the Run for Mobility and Stuff or Itens locations to get Stats Increase that sort of stuff for a run like that its perfect.)
True souls Player.
Praise the Sun! \0/
(Yu can even Cheese a Bunch of Fights Solo to convince the asshole to die for yu.. not Joking.. but if yu want a True Souls Feeling.. Just kill evrybody legit.)
Last edited by Thorvic; 30/10/23 10:29 PM.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
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I beleave that yu understand me wrong bro..
or maybe i cold not say it in a proper way becouse english its not my main language..
but what i mean its that no Company will keep open if they Go all out with Players Wishes I do agree with this, gamers are fickle and wildly diverse as a community, there is no way any company can go all in on Player Wishes and even if they did, the game would likely suck. And Fun Fact: almost ALL people that are actually Happy with this game at the Moment were the ones that went All Evil in the first gameplay Funny thing.. hauhauhauh
(like playing as Durge.. Guys want be happy playing this game Just Go with if.. stop listen people saying otherwise.. and yu will love the game..haha) This reads as a lot of hyperbole. I actually know few players that found the evil play through as enjoyable and none that I know that did pure evil from the start. I agree. Thorvic is being too exaggerated in his statements. I know about 20 people personally who have been playing the game since day 1, and every single one of them made their first playthrough a "good guy" playthrough. And from I see on twitter, facebook and instagram - it seems to me (I can't prove it, it's just a slightly educated guess) most people's 1st run in the game chose to make it a "good person" playthrough (or at least Neutral). I also fundamentally disagree with most of his statements (in many previous posts too) brutally criticizing Larian as a company. But I don't want to fight, so I won't argue with him directly (he's entitled to his opinion). I mean, if there's a game company that gamers should trust (especially given their History) it's Larian Studios. 'Nuff said. (edited for typos and clarity)
Last edited by MarcoNeves; 31/10/23 09:00 AM.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Oct 2023
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I haven't made my first playthrough a "good guy" playthrough.
My playthrough has been roughly "True Neutral"
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
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I haven't made my first playthrough a "good guy" playthrough.
My playthrough has been roughly "True Neutral" Cool beans. Yeah, I totally get it. I basically mean (in general most people) went from anywhere Good to Neutral, and up to chaotic neutral on playthrough 1. Just not "EEEEVIL". (Edited for clarity and typos)
Last edited by MarcoNeves; 31/10/23 09:02 AM.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2023
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Give a Try man.. Just saying that.. Just Give a Try in been Full evil Scumbag especially if yu go as Durge.. Its a Blast.. not Joking.. i tried both ways this game, even made 2 runs like yu guys say (True Neutral) and Trust me.. The Evil way i had a Lot more Fun and Lought then been the Hero (dont Know kinda Felt that i didant get Any Reward in the Game by the End for Been a Hero.. but in the Dark Side.. yu get a BUNCH of rewards.. kinda reaally weird this.) Just Try out been full evil as Durge and go Full Ilithid and get the Rewards from the Butler.. yu will go Nuts with the amount of Power yu can get by end game. I just Really Wish they Had made a LIttle Bit Better the Hero Path end endings.. becouse really dosent make me want to play that way again.. becouse of the endings i get.. with all of then. (yeahh i tested it all already.. have more then 900 hrs, and as far as i count last time hade made dont know.. 11 games or more becouse i delet a lot of then since 3.0) nowadays im just Testing Things in the Game.. and waiting for the new Patch or Update to Try to Fix what got broken in 3.0 (find some Work around for the Bugs too.. sometimes i Try to help people here doing that or giving advice on quests and stuffs.. but the game kinda is Dead for me im just F. Araond there yu know.) (i do enjoy Test Things.. i used to SpeedRUn so.. yeah im that kinda of guy ho loves find Bugs, Game Braking Stuff actually already find a Lot of then and reported to Larian.. but since 3.0 they never aswer anymore, just the same old stuff like the dev team its aware and working on it..) But dont Get me Wrong Guys i really love the Game.. i just want this game to be good in the Both Sides. just that. maybe im Harsh on what i say becouse i already told here.. english its not my main language.. Please my intention its not to Offend anybody or Larian.. i just want this Game to be the Best he can Be.. in my opinion this game its not Complete.. but if all of yu are Happy with the way he is at the moment.. F. Amazing.. i Wish i could enjoy the game like yu guys.. really wish not joking.
Last edited by Thorvic; 31/10/23 06:59 PM.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Sep 2023
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The actual current support from the Larian team regarding the sheer amount of people that are having major problems with this game is insane. I am so disappointed in Larian as a company. If the reason is because people are on holidays; then that is not good enough. Many of us have worked for many different companies, and when there is deadlines and important things to do, no one goes on holidays until it's done or the deadlines are met; Programming and developing should be no different. There are forums and message boards/discord channels littered with people complaining about how the game is unplayable or broken in some aspects that are not allowing them to continue playing the product they PAID for....
This experience has left me with a very sour taste in my mouth regarding Larian.
Rather frustrated.... I get that you're frustrated but this is a pretty wild thing to say about an industry thats already rife with overworking and exploiting workers
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Oct 2023
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The actual current support from the Larian team regarding the sheer amount of people that are having major problems with this game is insane. I am so disappointed in Larian as a company. If the reason is because people are on holidays; then that is not good enough. Many of us have worked for many different companies, and when there is deadlines and important things to do, no one goes on holidays until it's done or the deadlines are met; Programming and developing should be no different. There are forums and message boards/discord channels littered with people complaining about how the game is unplayable or broken in some aspects that are not allowing them to continue playing the product they PAID for....
This experience has left me with a very sour taste in my mouth regarding Larian.
Rather frustrated.... I get that you're frustrated but this is a pretty wild thing to say about an industry thats already rife with overworking and exploiting workers Remember; they always have the ability to leave that company in search for a position in another company or industry that better suits the amount of work they want to do. It's called choice; We all have it. Every industry is under the pump for deadlines and margins being met. EVERY industry...... If you sell a product in any other industry you need to stand behind it or people take you to court for malpractice or fraudulent behavior. Perhaps next time you purchase a product in a store and it is less than what you paid for; you'll be ok with accepting it for your money because who ever made it might be "overworked or exploited" as you put it. As an example; perhaps you'll be ok with concreters rocking up and only concreting half your driveway, taking your money that was for the job being completed in full and telling you that they will do the rest in 6 or so months time when they can get around to it and leave you not able to use the driveway at all....... If we don't accept it in other industries why should people accept it in the games they pay for that make millions and sometimes billions of dollars in profit?...
Last edited by Motojunkie86; 01/11/23 03:17 AM.
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