Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback The Emperor's story suggestions

That's why I feel the storyline in Chapter 3 is quite rough. The diversity of options does not meet the quality standards set in Chapter 1.

I understand that not all of you may be fans of the Emperor. However, regardless of your personal preferences, we all need an official truth from Larian. Especially since the storyline is already tied together, with the Emperor as a key role behind the scenes. I am simply calmly requesting that Larian Studios pay attention to filling in the gaps in the storyline.

The entire third act feels rushed for some reason. They employ numerous side quests to conceal the deficiencies of the main storyline. Even Wizards of the Coast is unwilling to provide specific details and experiences for this legendary character, which is very disappointing. Not to mention, Larian has many gaps in their character development for him. Although the Emperor could have been a character with much more depth and substance, he now seems to be merely a tool used to enhance the "epicness" of the plot.

Everything we currently have should be considered a bad ending. As for what I would have liked to see, here you go:

1. Tav decides to not turn into an illithid. They accept the Emperor as a mind flayer and partner, do whatever the Emperor wants from them and never bother to do anything beyond that. The Emperor never sees any need to change himself, only thinks that Tav missed an opportunity to become stronger. They never connect on a deeper level. In the end, when they get to talk for one last time, Tav is allowed to ask about their relationship, and the Emperor tells them that while they were good partners, he is not ready to accept Tav as a lover. When Tav tries to stay by the Emperor's side, no matter what they suggest, the Emperor always leaves.

2. Tav decides to turn into an illithid. They accept the Emperor as a mind flayer and partner, do whatever the Emperor wants from them and never bother to do anything beyond that. The Emperor never sees any need to change himself, only thinks that Tav made the right choice in order to defeat the enemy. They never connect on a deeper level. In the end, when they get to talk for one last time, Tav is allowed to ask about their relationship, and the Emperor tells them that while they were good partners, he is not ready to accept Tav as a lover. When Tav tries to stay by the Emperor's side, the Emperor agrees, but specifies that they can only be partners in work. It is left unclear whether or not they attempt to enter a romantic relationship ever again.

3. Tav decides to not turn into an illithid. They accept the Emperor as a mind flayer and partner, do whatever the Emperor wants from them and try to convince them that being a humanoid is not worse than being a mind flayer. Emotions can be a hindrance but also a great force. Feelings can hurt and heal. Relationships don't always have to end with betrayal. The Emperor starts to see a need to change himself, thinks that Tav has a point, that he has to accept his feelings, emotions and painful past as invaluable parts of himself. He leans more towards his guardian form, joins the final fight in that form while retaining all of his mind flayer abilities. He and Tav connect on a deeper level. When Tav falls from the platform and is about to reach the harsh waters below, the Emperor saves them from the fall the same way he did when they first met. In the end, when they get to talk for one last time, Tav is allowed to ask about their relationship, and the Emperor tells them that they were good partners and he wants to remain by Tav's side as their lover. They stay in the city and help it rebuild, after which they either work as its guardians or venture on another journey together.

4. Tav decides to turn into an illithid. They accept the Emperor as a mind flayer and partner, do whatever the Emperor wants from them and try to convince them that being a humanoid is not worse than being a mind flayer. Emotions can be a hindrance but also a great force. Feelings can hurt and heal. Relationships don't always have to end with betrayal. The Emperor starts to see a need to change himself, thinks that Tav has a point, that he has to accept his feelings, emotions and painful past as invaluable parts of himself. However, when Tav decides to become a mind flayer, the Emperor is taken aback. He asks if this is something Tav genuinely wants to do, and when Tav agrees, the Emperor starts to doubt everything. He joins the final fight in his mind flayer form. He never has any need to catch Tav, because Tav can now fly just like him. They never connect on a deeper level, and to the Emperor it somehow feels like betrayal. In the end, when they get to talk for one last time, Tav is allowed to ask about their relationship, and the Emperor tells them that while they were good partners, he is not ready to accept Tav as a lover. Moreover, he doesn't think they should ever meet again. When Tav tries to stay by the Emperor's side, no matter what they suggest, the Emperor always leaves.

1. Allow us to persuade the Emperor to side with Orpheus (high approval or romanced). Have him be right all along, beat Orpheus when he lashes out and let the Emperor/Tav/Karlach consume his brain (alternatively betray the Emperor and side with Orpheus instead).
2. Allow us to communicate and bond with the Emperor when using the artefact.
3. Reveal the truth behind the Emperor's mind control of Stelmane.
4. If romanced, add a cutscene after the ending sequence. Every romance interest has one, he should too.
5. If romanced, have the Emperor come up with a name for himself. Let everyone else refer to him as the Emperor/mind flayer/illithid/whatever they want. Tav is not voiced, so using a new name in their dialogue lines should not be a problem.
6. Have party members react to the intimate scene.
7. Make it an exclusive relationship.

Interesting perspective. However, it seems you're missing the fact that he is Balduran, he already has a personality and form from his human life. His guardian form was his way of trying to build trust with you instead of scaring you off with his true form. I think it also goes against how The Emperor truly wants people to accept him as he is, especially those close to him. He wrote to Ansur desperately to stop trying to cure him because he doesn't need fixing. The Emperor in no way shape or form will ever be able to turn back into a human (unless a god intervened). Then there is also the dialogue where The Emperor says you've both bonded on the deepest level and the narrator says you can understand him now because of it. Because illithid's do cherish their thralls and actually mind control as a basic fulfilling need, even seeking out to renew the companionship, it wouldn't make much sense for him to throw a very useful and powerful person away. These endings are also very depressing, I'm curious as to why you don't want the relationship to work out?

As for your other suggestions, I do agree with them.

Removing the Emperor would do more harm to the story than good. They would have to fill in all the holes where they remove him. It would be a huge undertaking both narratively and from a game development perspective. The amount of work required would be unreasonable. Not to speak of all the work they would be throwing away on top of it all.

It’s better that they improve on his character instead. He is interesting and has the potential to be a very memorable character. He just needs more depth.

Unfortunately most players see him as this manipulative villain. The “bad choice” for a lack of a better word.

If they want to make the final choice carry weight and be more impactful, they need to even out the playing field. The game makes Orpheus seem like this caring, understanding victim. A hero who will free his people from tyranny. It also shows Vlaakith to be incredibly evil. So of course people are going to choose Orpheus without a second thought. They get to free the gith hero, help a companion and potentially stomp on Vlaakith!

The Emperor on the other hand? We get a freedom squid who leaves the second it’s all over and an unhappy companion. It doesn’t help that he gets shown all this dirt in act 3 with little good to make up for it. It’s unfortunate. What should be a big choice doesn’t feel like one because the scale is so heavily unbalanced in favour of Orpheus.

I’m sure a lot of these issues stem from him being a late addition as a Daisy rewrite. He’s much more interesting than Daisy ever was, so it was a good move on Larian’s part IMO. His character just needs a little more time in the oven to bake.

-x-

Also another neat Reddit thread about the gith and emps. Discussions like these are always worth adding. It’s nice to see other people’s opinions on his character. I hope these discussions will help Larian flesh out the Emperor.

https://reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/s/us0p1J59NR

I do remember who he is, that he has a personality and form from his human (elven in our case, I believe) life. And while I can see why he could theoretically return to his original body image if we nudge him towards it enough, I also feel like we shouldn't undervalue the form he picked for us. Not just because that's our preferable face and gender, but:
1. The Emperor himself states that he is Balduran no longer. He might not want to use that appearance anymore.
2. He wears the Guardian image when he connects with us for the first time - a fresh start of sorts, something he seems to be after ("I am who I was when we met" etc etc). He also proceeds to use said image well into Act 2, all while trying to act human in order to get us to cooperate with him. If we get him to see that there's a good side to embracing his feelings, I think it is possible that he might learn to associate emotional/personal growth with this image as well. I'm not sure how to properly explain it, but I hope you get the idea.
Still, I'm not against him taking his original form, I would even encourage it. But it would be a very big step. Additionally, he could build himself an entirely new image, though I can't really see why he would want to do that. It would be yet another fresh start, and there's no reason for such.

He doesn't have to and really shouldn't change back into human (/elf)! I think it would be a terrible thing. When I was describing the endings, one requirement always stayed the same: we should accept him as a mind flayer. As in his species, his looks, his abilities and so on. When I was describing him as 'leaning more towards his Guardian form' I merely meant him showing that he's learned to appreciate both sides of himself and is willing to show it. In the ideal world he would easily alternate between his two images, depending on what he feels like wearing. If he wants to only appear as a mind flayer, I say why not?

It works out in ending 3 and somewhat in ending 2 (open ending, however mostly negative if you squint, yeah). I definitely want things to work out with him, but I also feel like this should be a difficult relationship to build simply because of what he had to go through before he encountered us. He's deeply distrustful, arrogant, calculating and currently leans more towards cold logic rather than feelings and emotions. If we are to truly get him to love us, we should first show him what's the point of it in the first place, help him see the benefits of emotional co-depndency and all that. If we succeed - congrats, we get ending 3. Then we get to kiss him (or her, depends on what image he chooses) on public and grasp at his tentacles behind closed doors.

I agree with your thoughts. True love transcends appearances and identities. The current endings only allow you to stay with the Sovereign if you decide to ceremorphosis into a mind flayer, which feels quite limiting. After embarking on an epic journey and forming deep connections, it is disheartening that two individuals cannot be together solely because of their different races.

the Emperor and Orpheus