Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback The amount of cut content is just heart-wrenching.

Changing the Nautiloid for brevity I get, but honestly why were they so keen on trimming that down if the back half of the game is unfinished? Surely you'd prefer to stall players for as long as possible.

Reading about the daisy stuff as someone who avoided EA is pretty disappointing, it sounds more interesting than the guardian stuff I've seen so far. But maybe my opinion will change.
In fact a friend of mine who had been playing through EA kind of set me up with the expectation that the Guardian is probably not someone you want to listen to unless you want to go all in on mindflayer stuff and it really distorted my expectations.


I don't know if any of that is cut or merely conditional. But the bird confused me too, because if you talk to the bird, he has nothing to do with her. I've also not had any shadowheart specific convos in the withers tomb, unless maybe you need to rest in there or something.

Additionally, these 'dataminers' don't even share how they found this, no methods presented, no tools, where to search... just nothing. Just bunch of randoms do trololo on people that doesn't have critical thinking.
I don't believe until i really see something. I hope people stop parroting this because it hurts the game.

Well some dataminers have posted videos showing what they found. I wouldn’t automatically dismiss all of them.

But this list isn’t even from someone claiming to have done it themselves, but someone claiming to have put together a definitive list of what others have found. No sources or references to what was allegedly found for the vast majority of it.

Even if they are being basically honest, they could be still be making all sorts of assumptions, extrapolations and wildly inaccurate conclusions. They’ve given us no way to judge for ourselves which makes me immediately suspicious.

Amusingly, when I said this elsewhere, someone actually posted links to the relevant software tools and said that if I didn’t trust this list, I should datamine it myself. When all I’m suggesting is that people might want to exercise a bit of caution about unverified claims on the internet.

That's fair view. Have a nice day!

The list absolutely takes some speculation as concrete cut content. I know this because some of it is stuff that I speculated about and never suggested was proof of anything being cut, merely what could have been based on the evidence we had available. The stuff about the 'down by the river' being datamined is not true, as far as I know.

My understanding of the "truthfulness" of this list is as follows.

1. Seemingly true. There's enough oddities in the lower city (Gortash's coronation being in a prison, Cazador's mansion being through a tower rampart, the Emperor's upper city warning, etc) that definitely make it feel like there were significant changes, as do comments by Larian leading up to release. I believe people have mentioned uncovering triggers and scripting relating to the upper city from the release files.

2. Probably true. Probably cut because it made reactivity during Shadowheart's quest an issue.

3. Not true. I've seen nothing to indicate Karlach had a 'good ending' planned, much less implemented. It's more likely that the dissonance comes from Karlach being the only character to remain in the 'moodier' version of BG3's narrative, and her general vibe of being someone they only sorted out late in development (as confirmed by the artbook and changes throughout EA.) See also: how weird her 'fixing the engine' cutscenes feel.

4. Seemingly true. Unclear why cut, but I can't imagine a pregnancy plot being anything but weird (just like Aerie's plot in BG2.)

5. Seemingly true. But neglects to mention Halsin's datamined role in the Nightsong plotline (he killed Isobel with Sorrow.) Likely cut when he was made into a full companion.

6. Probably not true -- sort of. I believe datamining did indicate that Raphael would be able to remove your tadpole toward the end of Act 1, and while the soul coins were obviously supposed to be used for something other than a buff for Karlach, I don't think anyone ever figured out what they were for. I believe there was a suggestion during EA that they'd be used to create hirelings. There was datamined content that suggested Raphael would have generally bigger role to play, however.

7. Almost certainly not true. I don't think anything Avernus related was ever datamined.

8. Kinda-sorta. It appears that Tav was something like a Bhaalspawn in EA, given some of the responses they'd have to Daisy. It is unlikely, however, that they were the Dark Urge. That said, it does appear there was a distinct split between Bhaalspawn!Tav and Release!Tav during development, and it's likely the Dark Urge was constructed as a result of that split.

9. True. Likely altered when Daisy was.

10. Seemingly true. Lots of content was turned up about this, and elements of it still persist in game (injured Voss, for example) and the general oddity of the Underdark and Mountain Pass being presented as equivalent when one is much larger than the other. Additionally, plot-related oddities in the creche sequence may be evidence of this.

11. Seemingly true and directly related to point 10. A Magic: The Gathering card hinted at this.

12. Not sure.

13. Seemingly true. Larian apparently cut these are they thought they were too long. Yeah.

14. Seemingly true.

15. Wrong. Banite cultists do feature in the game, although they do feel limited and inconsequential.

16. Apparently true.

17. True.

18. True. Similar to Shar, it was likely too problematic from a writing perspective.

19. True, but this runs with it a little. It's clear that Daisy and the Guardian/Emperor were vastly different implementations. It is likely that Daisy was the Absolute attempting to give you power to use against the Chosen keeping it enslaved. Datamining suggested there were two Daisies and one of their aspects was that of Orpheus. It is highly likely that the songs mentioned did relate to this older plotline. But I've seen nothing to suggest that ending was ever anything more than something I speculated upon a few days before this post went up.

20. True. The companions used to be visited by unique Daisies (Vlaakith for Lae'zel, Cazador for Astarion, Mystra for Gale, etc.) and this has been removed. Similar to Daisy, it's likely that these changes were a result of whatever happened behind the scenes concerning Daisy, the illithid plot, the desire to give players cool powers, significant changes in tone and narrative, and whatever else.

21. Unsure. Leaning toward no, given that she had a full-fledged romance arc in BG2.

22. True.

23. Potentially true. Given the state of Act 3, it's unclear what is not present versus bugged out.

24. True.

25. True. That said, cutting the nautiloid down makes a lot of sense given how often you might need to run through it. Irenicus' Dungeon Begone, anyone? However, it is notable for eliminating one of the few scenes featuring Mind Flayer thralls.

26. No idea. Given you can find Mol's infernal contract and how oddly it's handled, it wouldn't surprise me if there was more intended (see also: Raphael.)

27. No idea.

28. No idea.

29. See 13.

30. True. That said, I'm pretty sure this is an idea that never really got close to being implemented.

31. True. Likely cut as some consequence of Halsin's popularity. Suggestions have also been made that her werewolf aspect was rolled into the Dark Urge.

31. Is there a belt slot in the game?

Unfortunately the genie is out of the bottle and I don't think the narrative will ever change now. People will keep expecting 'fully implemented Karlach good ending any day now!' and Upper City etc.

This is a sobering read. While AAA companies are bemoaning that BG3 has too much content, and will thus make players expect more from their flashy yet oftentimes rushed and content-starved games, this game was clearly intended to be even bigger. As is the game has impressed me in so many ways, bugs be damned, but if a later "definitive edition" would add some of the things cut out (most likely due to time constraints than anything else) that would be fantastic indeed.

So Larian have now commentated on the claims about "cut content" and things found through datamining. Specifically on Karlach, epilogues and the upper city, but also generally about why things are changed.

https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=888800&page=1

The upshot is that things that are just a bit broken will be patched, endings will be expanded in time, but huge swathes of the game that people claim were just removed aren't going to suddenly appear, because they never existed.

The Karlach thing is just kicking the can a bit further down the road. People want a happy ending, they don't want a better executed "poignant" ending. I think a lot of people are just going to end up more upset than they already are, and I think Larian -- if they truly aren't going to deliver it -- should just come out and say it, instead of letting people hype themselves up like 'aaaa, good guy Larian listened to us, #justiceforkarlach, happy ending incoming!'

And if they are going to give her a happy ending, then why not just come out and say so?


BG3 EA was generally doing things no other CRPG has really tried to do before. It was understandable when everyone from indie developers to Josh Sawyer started to sweat, and why so many fans got so fired up. I genuinely can't think of any CRPG that had a party member like Gale. One who needed significant resources from you to solve a personal crisis and, if they didn't get it, would go on to sign a deal with an antagonist. Especially when it seemed like you, the player, might've been able to make a similar deal with that same antagonist to solve your own crisis. And that was just Gale! And before you ever left Act 1!

That's the thing that I don't like about that list. It focuses on a lot of big flashy things that sound good and grab attention, but doesn't actually get into the nuts and bolts of what we lost, because Larian cut a lot more than they let on, and that you only really realize if you played EA extensively.

There's a datamining thread in this very forum that shows off how much was there. The real takeaway from this is that it's likely going to lead to another flare-up of angry Karlach fans in the near future (they're not upset that the ending isn't poignant enough), that Larian was making very questionable decisions if you take them at their word (cutting the epilogues because they were... too long?), and outright saying that there is no "cut content" just "content they didn't want to release." It's a PR piece, damage control because Reddit is getting very upset about things that may or may not have been actually cut, and the tone of the article is strikingly different to all their other Community Updates.

But like, Larian was never going to re-implement much of this short of outright doing a Definitive Edition and even then it'd be really limited. Most of this stuff is outright gone. Larian's made their money.

As opposed to everyone taking the author of this bloody list at their word? With it's claims of whole game regions that were supposedly just removed, despite the total lack of sources to justify such claims.

Larian aren't saying nothing is cut. Of course things are cut as changes are made throughout development. Bits of those abandoned ideas can be dug up through datamining (I've seen the thread, thanks). But notice how the claims in the list are presented as things that were "meant" to be in the game as opposed to things that got changed at some point in the development process.

It's hardly surprising they are being defensive about it, when there's unsubstantiated rumours being spread around that they lopped off big chunks of the game to hit a release deadline. After all the hard work, I'd be mad as hell about it myself.

Please stop trying to defend the indefensible. Its very obvious that the upper city was intended, starting from Larians own words from 2 months ago about exploring it, to the very questionable placement of NPCs and entrances in act 3, to the many leads into the upper city that remain in the game to, yes, datamined content that shows quest trigger for the upper city for quests that are quite clearly missing as it concerns companions.

Well, why is everyone so happy to accept a badly researched and unsourced list as gospel? Why did it spread like wildfire? Those are the questions people, including Larian themselves, should be asking. Like, this list can be disassembled by just checking some Reddit posts or playing parts of the game itself. Some parts of it can't, sure, but I'd argue they're irrelevant. The reason why people are getting up in arms about "cut content" is because a bunch of people have endured an unprecedented hype cycle (even Cyberpunk didn't have people coming out and suggesting Larian was a unique animal -- oh, how that has aged), put a hundred hours into a CRPT, and found it to be... just the same as any other big name CRPG release in recent memory. A front-loaded first act, some great set pieces throughout the second, and all of it leading to a climax that is less a tapestry and more some dangling narrative threads, simply too much pointless combat instead of a genuine victory lap, and an ending that comes down to a decisions you made about ten minutes previously. Turns out Larian wasn't unique, they were a company the same as any other and they were beholden to much the same pressures.

It's also very likely they lopped off big chunks of their game to hit a release deadline. That's basically the constant of any game that gets released ever, especially CRPGs. We know that a bunch of races like Warforged had dialogue for a lot of the game, including Daisy dreams. Like, yeah, Larian didn't say nothing had been cut, they just figured they needed to specify there was no "cut content" but just "content they didn't want to release." Larian's trying to regain control of the narrative, but they won't -- they can't. The issue isn't that content was cut or removed or whatever, the issue is that a lot of people are upset that good guy Larian isn't really much different to Obsidian, Bioware, Bungie, Blizzard, CDProjekt Red or whoever else. And the irony is that every day Larian doesn't come out and honestly discuss what happened during development, because something clearly did, then trust will continue to erode.

Because "it's not cut content, it's sparkling content we didn't want to release" doesn't actually do anything to disabuse people of the notion that material was cut, much less begin quelling the discontent with the end product that's fuelling it. And everyone knows Larian can't stand by artistic integrity, because BG3's development has been defined by both a. Larian actually making changes based on loud feedback and b. acting as if they make changes based on loud feedback. That is to say, putting the desires of the audience above whatever their original plan were, even when those plans were well-along in development. But if you give a bunch of Internet people years and years of rope, don't be surprised when they string you up with it. Not to abuse a cliche, but anyone in a creative industry should know that fans don't know what they want, and letting them lead you around by the nose just ends up with situations just like this.

The idea that they thought a twenty second epilogue at the end of a 140 hour game was the absolute longest people could handle seems questionable. I guess they're trying to put aside expectations that this is going to get a definitive edition, either because they want to move onto something new or they want people to be excited when it happens.

Also, yeah, that. This is a game about cutscenes and talking to people in cutscenes. Acting as if people wouldn't want several minutes of cutscenes at the end is another reason why people aren't really accepting the response because it implies that Larian doesn't understand what the audience wants or why they play a game like BG3, or that they're lying to try and cover their butts. It'd be really nice if BG3 got a Definitive Edition, but I really wouldn't count on it. But I can't imagine they'd announce that for a while at least, either way.

based on the update, I am really worried they took the wrong lesson from the discourse surrounding cut content.

It mostly falls into two categories... people who want to see a little more polish in certain areas, and have hopes that cut content can provide that.

And people absolutely fiending and giddy for more content, to the point where they are grasping at straws looking for information about future content and DLC.

In either case, people want more, people are DESPERATE for more... people arent so much angry about cut content, as they are either... a tiny bit upset, or absolutely excited about the potential re-implementation of this content in patches or even DLC.

Many people talking about cut content even outright say they want teh cut Avernus and Upper city content as straight up full DLC.

It may be heartbreaking from devs to see this discource, but I hope they can realize that, this is a consequence not of their inadequacy, but people loving their product so much that they want more, and cant get enough of it.

No, my fear is that the only thing Larian is taking away from this is "people want happy sexy times with Karlach waifu" (and my bigger fear is that they would be correct) instead of people not accepting the large quality drop in act 3 which goes beyond mere performance issues and bugs but is about the pacing and narrative which falls apart which gets blamed on cut content.

I see. And do you have a source for these upper city quest triggers? Or should I just accept this on faith, like the above list?

Can someone explain to me how Larian is any better then all the other horrible modern gaming developers? Let me make a comparison with Cyberpunk 2077. The biggest issue with that game is that it over promised and underdelivered with huge game features missing ranging from story, side quests, police interactivity and more. To my understanding Larian has done exactly the same thing here. Larian stated a fully explorable upper city in community update #19 which they now confirmed was a lie, they discussed 17,000 permutations for the ending which we now know is ALSO a lie. Karlach's ending not being happy is not the issue (not entirely) it's that is was literally impossible to finish! Because her quest ended in the upper city... Overall Larian overpromised and underdelivered and to be quite honest I feel scammed out of my money. Yes, there are parts of the game that are good, yes I believe they will iron out the bugs, HOWEVEAR could you imagine buying any other product on the planet and having key features of it not in it when you purchase it that were previously advertised!? That is my rant and that Larian should not be praised for their level of DISHONESTY, they should be ashamed of themselves.

Reasonable points about some questionable decisions they made and why they made them, but that's largely a separate discussion. It's this list in particular that's fueling so much backlash about "cut content", and what Larian were no doubt responding to. This list which contains at best a lot of unfounded speculation, if not complete bollocks. People just accepting this list as reliable information is not the way to start talking about the things you want to talk about, and it seems to be giving a lot of people the impression that all this "cut content" is just sitting there waiting to be "restored" in a definitive edition or something. I don't want to see people getting their hopes up on a false premise and be disappointed all over again, so I encourage people to be more sceptical.