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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Nov 2021
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Do you tell people who believe all the claims in this list that they should datamine it themselves, or just people who say we should be careful about unsourced information? I’m not the one spreading rumours around the internet. You are being both lazy and disingenuous. The source of all data mining info is in the game files that are already installed on your computer. Why would data miners cite their source when the source is the game files that everyone has access to?
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Oct 2020
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I hope that they will bring much of that stuff in again over time. I love this game but I'm not blind to the problems the cut content has caused to the overall storytelling (especially when it comes to act 3, epilogues and your relationships).
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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
Joined: Oct 2021
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Re: epilogues being “too long”…
This game is already a cinematic experience. What made Larian think the players wouldn’t want a semi-interactive movie as the epilogue? What made them think we don’t have enough investment in our party that we wouldn’t care if they didn’t get closure or if we didn’t get closure? That’s a creative decision I have trouble wrapping my head around, as it seems to contradict the vision for the game, which is in part based on character driven cinematics and respecting player choice…
Upper city and other alleged cut content I can accept because it sounds like a combination of a slip of the tongue combined with an audience dreaming up grand scenarios.
Remember the human (This is a forum for a video game):
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2020
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Do you tell people who believe all the claims in this list that they should datamine it themselves, or just people who say we should be careful about unsourced information? I’m not the one spreading rumours around the internet. You are being both lazy and disingenuous. The source of all data mining info is in the game files that are already installed on your computer. Why would data miners cite their source when the source is the game files that everyone has access to? And it takes skill and a lot of time to sift through it all to work out what might be relevant. Probably real programming ability to do much more than dig up things like unused audio files. Is it really too much to ask exactly what others have found? What did you find in your datamining then? I’m keen to hear the opinions on all this from people who have put the effort in. (PS the author of this list does not say they did it themselves)
Last edited by Dagless; 31/08/23 02:18 PM.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2020
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Re: epilogues being “too long”…
This game is already a cinematic experience. What made Larian think the players wouldn’t want a semi-interactive movie as the epilogue? What made them think we don’t have enough investment in our party that we wouldn’t care if they didn’t get closure or if we didn’t get closure? That’s a creative decision I have trouble wrapping my head around, as it seems to contradict the vision for the game, which is in part based on character driven cinematics and respecting player choice…
Upper city and other alleged cut content I can accept because it sounds like a combination of a slip of the tongue combined with an audience dreaming up grand scenarios. To be blunt, I want at least the cut systems restored (full crafting and Exhaustion). I'd love to see Orin's attack on the creché restored, along with the Upper City and it's quests but I doubt either will happen outside of a Definitive Edition. I'd love to get the full epilogue but couldn't care less about Minathara or Karlach's ending.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Aug 2023
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At least you acknowledge that good. I think there could be a lot of possible scenarios and no we don't know (probably will never know) the true 150% exactly what happened. However, it was advertised and then was not present so this means it is misleading at best and fraud at worst which no matter how you slice it, IS NOT GOOD. Period.
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Jan 2021
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Please stop trying to defend the indefensible. Its very obvious that the upper city was intended, starting from Larians own words from 2 months ago about exploring it, to the very questionable placement of NPCs and entrances in act 3, to the many leads into the upper city that remain in the game to, yes, datamined content that shows quest trigger for the upper city for quests that are quite clearly missing as it concerns companions. I fully agree. Also one more thing I find important - have you guys ever noticed that when going north of the Baldur's Gate waypoint towards the Upper City gate game stops you from progressing there. And if you persisted The Emperor is "interfering" and teleporting you back, because "the Elder Brain was there". How is the Elder Brain there in the Upper City while it is in a cave complex where you go by boat through the Sewers/Undercity? So the brain is at two places simultaneously? That or it is just a simple excuse for not letting you enter Upper City. It could have easily been just a gate you can't pass or open and that's it. Why whole mechanic to stop you? Nowhere in the entire game there is such a thing except when the EA was not letting you progress into already existing zones. Think about that, please!
Last edited by D3loFF; 31/08/23 06:24 PM.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Oct 2020
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I’d have no issues waiting a year to get the Upper City back.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Aug 2023
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The fact that some kind of drama is being made about this is the depressing part. Are people really this clueless about the process of developing these kinds of huge projects.
Movies, games, music albums, every single major project and even plenty of minor ones are going to finish with stuff left on the cutting room floor, stuff that possibly had some redeeming qualities but didnt fit or didnt work for one reason or other. Shitty game "journalist" sites are partly to blame for trying to make a mountain out of this molehill entirely for clicks.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Jan 2023
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But people aren't upset over the fact that content was cut so much as they are upset that Larian did a terrible job of cleaning it up. Cut content isn't meant to leave gaping narrative and design holes that make the game feel unfinished and unpolished.
Like, conversations reference things that don't exist. Items marked as quest items aren't actually used for anything. Storylines are unsatisfying and abruptly ended.
Then to add insult to injury, things like the upper city and tadpoles actually having consequences were hyped just months before release which is misrepresentation and false advertising.
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member
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member
Joined: Oct 2020
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An interesting indication of the datamined stuff that indicated Daisy would the Absolute and Orpheus trying to convince the player. A choice to embrace the Absolute represented by the Absolute's icon, and a choice to resist. Datamining indicated that you would two entities in your head. One was suspected to be Orpheus. The choice to resist the Absolute is represented by a lyre. In Greek mythology, Orpheus had a lyre. edit: Well, to be technical, that's a harp -- but Orpheus' lyre is sometimes referred to as a harp. It could also refer to the Harpers, however.
Last edited by Milkfred; 02/09/23 12:40 AM.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2020
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An interesting indication of the datamined stuff that indicated Daisy would the Absolute and Orpheus trying to convince the player. A choice to embrace the Absolute represented by the Absolute's icon, and a choice to resist. Datamining indicated that you would two entities in your head. One was suspected to be Orpheus. The choice to resist the Absolute is represented by a lyre. In Greek mythology, Orpheus had a lyre. edit: Well, to be technical, that's a harp -- but Orpheus' lyre is sometimes referred to as a harp. It could also refer to the Harpers, however. Tenuous. Greek mythological Orpheus was a bard and completely different character. And that’s a harp, which everyone knows represents Guinness beer. Aw, you edited just before my snarky comment. Damn it.
Last edited by Dagless; 02/09/23 01:00 AM.
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member
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member
Joined: Oct 2020
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Tenuous. Greek mythological Orpheus was a bard and completely different character. And that’s a harp, which everyone knows represents Guinness beer.
Aw, you edited just before my snarky comment. Damn it. Oh, yeah, I'm not saying 'Gith Orpheus is Greek Orpheus' or anything, but there has to be a reason why Larian used such a jarring name for such a prominent character. I suspect the musical lyre/harp stuff was part of it. Maybe they thought they'd do something "clever" like linking him to the Harpers or something. As it is, you've got like... Lae'zel, Vlaakith, Voss, W'wargaz, and... Orpheus.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Jun 2013
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But people aren't upset over the fact that content was cut so much as they are upset that Larian did a terrible job of cleaning it up. Cut content isn't meant to leave gaping narrative and design holes that make the game feel unfinished and unpolished.
Like, conversations reference things that don't exist. Items marked as quest items aren't actually used for anything. Storylines are unsatisfying and abruptly ended.
Then to add insult to injury, things like the upper city and tadpoles actually having consequences were hyped just months before release which is misrepresentation and false advertising. Especially when they could have just done a Part 1 (Acts 1&2) and Part 2 (Act 3 and an additional 4th).
You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Aug 2023
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My other favorite game is RDR2 so I get the feeling of heartbreak about cut content. That game had a lot of amazing stuff that got chopped, and all of New Austin/the west felt empty and unfinished At least Larian might actually add more to this game. RDR2 got dropped as soon as it was released, sadly.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Sep 2023
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I see you commenting in here a lot basically denying everything. Check community update #19 yourself and you will see that they did in fact talk about being able to explore the upper city. They lied two weeks before release and said nothing 1. Secondly this is a very disgusting bait and switch tactic and before you say "oh how many people wouldn't have bought the game if they knew this???" obviously enough to scare them into lying so they could preserve their sales... stop defending bad behavior and have some self-respect. I’m not defending anything. My entire point thoughout this thread has simply been- how reliable is the information in this list that’s been posted around the internet? Where are the sources? What was actually found? What Sven said about the upper city was clearly wrong. At least misleading if not outright false. If there ever was an upper city zone explorable before the very end, I have a very hard time believing it was cut two week before launch. So maybe it wasn’t developed in the first place? Do we actually have anything concrete to go on besides what Sven said? Can you actually quote Swen on anything upper city? Like actual quote of something he said? If you look through the city reveral video one of the devs clearly state the journey come to a conclusion in the lower city. And I'm not so sure Swen is the one that write all these community updates himself. The llast days I been looking through every video, interview etc I could find and no where there been any "upper city"... wishful thinking doesn't make datamined tidbits equal actual cut content of any value. As for validity of the datamined stuff. You have tidbits of text. There isn't any building blocks for modders to even make heads or tails of re-create any of this alleged cut contet. When you try discuss this then you have people "look at the links" and then.. well you got wonderful links, what do they prove? Of which.... you get THE LINKS... of which when you look into them doesn't lead anywhere or prove anything.
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member
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member
Joined: Oct 2020
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To throw flames on this old topic. A source at Larian mentioned to me that a lot of additional content was cut, although they would not confirm either way if it was the upper city (although they said it was extensive.) That said, they mentioned that the Emperor was a late addition who resulted from players not engaging with the tadpole mechanic. Food for thought.
Last edited by Milkfred; 17/10/23 06:24 AM.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jul 2009
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To throw flames on this old topic. A source at Larian mentioned to me that a lot of additional content was cut, although they would not confirm either way if it was the upper city (although they said it was extensive.) That said, they mentioned that the Emperor was a late addition who resulted from players not engaging with the tadpole mechanic. Food for thought. That was already clear when they still printed Daisy in the artbook and not the Emperor and that the voicelines still suggests that using tadpoles is bad. It looks to be they had someone competent work on the story for EA who then left and every change after that was made by a hack and made the game worse. But if true that they rewrote the main story just to implement their shitty tadpole powerup system no one uses the Larian is even worse than I thought.
Last edited by Ixal; 17/10/23 06:40 AM.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Sep 2017
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Found on reddit but posted below for convenience. A List of All Cut Content (Spoilers)
I've been working on compiling cut content datamined from various sources and while I had a ton of this information in my other thread I decided to forego the "review" or the complaints and simply list off the cut content that has been confirmed thus far.
1) The Upper City - The most obvious one. Swen himself talked about the "Affluent Upper City" just 2 weeks before launch and described as it being fully explorable and yet it's very noticeably absent from the final game.
2) Shar Worship - In EA the player was able to select Shar as a diety which game with it's own unique dialogue trees, especially when interacting with Shadowheart as a fellow Shar worshiper. Despite the fact that voice lines were datamined indicating this had functions well into Act 2, it was cut when the game launched.
3) Karlach's Ending - Datamined content shows that not only did Karlach have a full ending where her infernal engine was fixed and that she survived, but that most of it was fully voiced and complete. However it required triggers from the Upper City portion of Baldur's Gate and when that was cut, so was Karlach's Act 3 storyline. What we have behind have been confirmed to be Karlach's "fail state" endings which were meant to only play if the player neglected her quest chain.
4) Minthara's Story - Minthara was meant to have a much deeper story, including a pregnancy. These were likely cut due to Minthara being a late stage addition to our roster but dialogue lines remain in the games files that show that not only did Minthara have a lot more content for herself but your other companions had a lot more to say about it.
5) Halsin's Story - Another late addition to the roster, Halsin was originally intended to have a great deal more endgame content involving the Druid circle, but this appears to have been cut more early on than some of the other items thus far.
6) Raphael the Merchant - Originally Raphael was meant to be a fully viable option to remove your tadpole, in fact the "Soul Coin" items that you collect in game where originally meant to be a powerful alternative currency accepted only by Raphael in exchange for possibly retrieving your soul as well as a long list of incredibly powerful artifacts from the House of Hope that would be sold by Raphael himself.
7) Avernus - An entire area of the game. Avernus was meant to be fully explorable and of similar size to the Underdark Area of Act 1. It would be a source not only for Soul Coins but other rare materials, highly difficult fights, and special content for Karlach.
8) Tav the Dark Urge - A lot of people were both surprised and excited to see the addition of The Dark Urge origin as the Bhaalspawn/Evil option that was missing from EA. As it turns out, Tav was originally the Dark Urge and they were all one origin. Tav was meant to be Bhaalspawn and separating the two seems to be what caused the narrative divide between the Dead Three storyline and the Mindflayer plot.
9) Omeluum's Ring - In the EA version of the game this ring would block your Tadpole entirely. It could not grow, it could not grow stronger, and you could not use Illithid powers. In the launch version this ring prevents you from being charmed despite Omeluum still stating that it blocked the influence of the Elder Brain/Absolute.
10) Bhaal and Orin versus the Creche - An entire Act 2 battle was cut in which Bhaal's forces, led by Orin, attacked the Githyanki creche which led to a fight where you either sided with one or the other or had a massive 3-way fight on your hands.
11) Orin and the Dragon - Orin was meant to corrupt a Githyank red dragon, leading to a boss fight against a Slayer-formesque Dragon.
12) The Hag Coven in Act 2 and 3 - You may notice that accepting Auntie Ethels help in the first Act can lead to a negative effect when fighting Hags. You may also notice that despite Auntie Ethel having letters from other Hags in her basement, she is the only one you encounter. Originally there was meant to be a full three act story involving the Hag coven including the mysterious "M" who seems to have been their leader.
13) Epilogues - Full epilogue cutscenes have been datamined that varied greatly depending on your choices. These were the "17K ending variations" that Larian told us about, yet they are completely absent in the final game leading only to a fade to black scene at the end of the game.
14) Cazador's Story - Originally Cazador was meant to play a huge role in the Upper City of Baldur's Gate, including being a huge political power. Datamined content also shows that originally he was meant to be a potential ally in the final push against the Absolute.
15) Banite Cultists - The game features both Bhaal and Myrkul cultists rather heavily but Bane is reduced to Gortash alone. Despite the fact that they had full and finished assets for both armor, weapons, and some events the Banites were cut from the final game.
16) Act 1 Minsc - Minsc was meant to be recruited at the end of Act 1 but was cut and pushed back into the later game.
17) Dialogue and Events - Even from Act 1 itself, thousands of lines of dialogue and companion events were cut from the final game. Some of them were even fully voiced and ready to be implemented in game but also referenced other content that ended up on the cutting room floor.
18) Bhaal, Myrkul and Bane as Deities - Cleric's were meant to be fully able to select the Dead Three from the list of Deities. There were even special dialogues in game for player's who played as a Paladin and then multiclassed at least 1 level of Cleric on top and selected one of the Dead Three.
19) Daisy - It's not a secret that Daisy was cut from the game after the last EA release and replaced with "The Guardian." Originally Daisy was representative of the tadpole in your head, not the Emperor, and would attempt to seduce your character into staying in the meadow by the river with her forever. A happy life with an imaginary dream lover while your body underwent ceramorphosis and was lost to you forever. Daisy was such an important part of the plot that both of the games theme songs "Down by The River" and "The Power" are based entirely upon Daisy. Datamined content also shows there was originally an ending where players would embrace a romance with Daisy and give themselves over to the parasite, forever leaving their individual consciousness "down by the river" with Daisy.
20) Companions and the Illithid Worm - Originally companions were meant to accept or refuse Illithid gifts independently of the player choices. You could of course influence them through dialogue to decide who did and did not take the offered gifts, but ultimately it would be based on individual characters choices. This can still be seen in game as a bug when companions will awake after a long rest and claim to have received a gift from their Guardian and yet will have gained no actual power.
21) Romancing Jaheira - Apparently you were originally meant to have limited options to romance and sleep with Jaheira but these were cut last minute. It's unclear why.
22) Tadpole's and Consequences - There were originally meant to be severe consequences from using the Illithid powers too heavily and investing too much into the Tadpole powers. This seems obvious in game and yet ultimately in the release version goes nowhere as the ending is reduced to about 4 choices made in the last leg of the game. You can use all tadpoles or none and receive the same ending.
23) Act 3 Companion Dialogue - If you've noticed that companions have much less to say at the end of their journey it's because thousands of lines of dialogue were cut from companions in the final Act and all for various reasons. This also seems to be the source of most of the companion bugs that only appear in the final act as they're still trying to trigger events that simply no longer exist.
24) Multiple Cutscenes - There are multiple cutscenes that were present for Act 1 that are missing from the final game.
25) The Nautolid - A large portion of the Nautolid tutorial zone was cut in the final release, including cutscenes, dialogue, areas, and an optional fight with 2 injured Imps. This was likely cut for the sake of brevity more than anything.
26) Mol and Raphael - Isn't it odd how Mol will just escape from Raphael on her own and say it was "easy?" Well it turns out that's because they cut whatever the final leg of that quest was meant to be, instead they allow Mol to escape on her own which more or less skips to the end and around the cut content.
27) The Raven Queen - There was an entire second part of the storyline that was cut early on.
28) The Voice of Bane - It's possible to have a brief conversation with Bane, but it remains incomplete as the dialogue is unvoiced for some reason.
29) The Wither's Epilogue - WIther's was meant to narrate an epilogue for the players, to what extent is unsure but instead WIther's is left with a single event in the entire game when post-credit's he can be seen revealing himself as Jergal and mocking a mural of the Dead Three.
30) Crafting - An early access build contained a crafting bench and it seems originally we were meant to have full access to crafting/enchanting gear of our own through certain systems. While these were cut, the items for them were not. This is why items like ingots, gemstones, woods, and other material items appear in game with no use other than vendor trash.
31) Helia - The Halfling Werewolf that I sadly forgot was cut from the game.
32) Belts - There is an item slot in game for belts, not a single belt is present in the game as an item. Now, I appreciate that some of it isn't necessarily relevant anymore - I thought Wyll was more interesting in EA as his darker side made him less flat, but that's my opinion. However the feedback is obvious. I'd have happily waited 6 months more to get this in the game. I'm so happy someone digged up this old thread, because I believe Larian would want players to comment over that - if they would want it to be restored or not. I don't understand those extremes: - why is someone so obssessed with proving it wasn't there at all or - that the game is worse than completelly broken Cyberpunk because of it - the rage wasn't because Cyberpunk wasn't good RPG, but because of technical issues and Larian delievered what they promised, even more - it is mindblowing RP game. So IMO the most important is if we players would find it as a nice addition to the current game or not. 1. Everyone is missing the upper city, not because the game is short, but because of all the quests ending there. 3. I always want good ending 4,5,16. I always want fleshed out companions,esp evil ones 2.,6.-8,14.,15,18.,26 everyone want proper evil playthrough and alternative to tadpole - Rafael is how it could work - someone else to work with against the 3 avatars, because in blood wars I think Rafael was against Zariel, so that would be a whole new plot, and a cool one 9,12,14,27 - I miss all of those stories, Shadowland is very barren, Raven queen could make it more interesting, but the darkness is quite depressing, so it would have to be partially different. And I miss joining Society of Brilliance and do some quests with them. 9,19. Personally first I didn't like reveal of guardian true nature, because it felt disconnected from the whole story, but after I saw Daisy scenes compilation video, I'm glad it was cut off. The idea wasn't bad, but it was too much personal for me, almost annoying. But if the plot would be - tadpole trying to trick you into taking it, being with absolute and then guardian would come trying to make you independent, that would be interesting 20. I don't care that much 21. I don't do romances 22. It seems like with the last minute shift of the story it is slightly incomplete. 23 everyone want companions to talk more IMO if it is well written 10,11,24,25,28, I don't know how I would feel about it. 29 I saw the video and it was long and tedious - all of those endings - I have to admit, I closed it, but I guess it could be there for those who care. 30,31 - I miss that - just an upgrade crafting would be enough, but it is boring to buy/find armors with only +1 enhancement and a lot of armors remaining undiscovered, because you don't kill or pickpocket. So I wish there would be more of armors somehow.
Last edited by Lefali; 17/10/23 08:38 AM.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Oct 2023
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I’d have no issues waiting a year to get the Upper City back. In general, any cut content that did not make it because of time and funds I would be glad to get at a later time. Let them work on the quality and patch it in sometime in the future. I agree with previous commenters saying that people are less upset that the amount of content is less than expected, but more about how you can extremely easily tell that some quests were scrapped halfway through. For example the Necromancy of Thay immediately catches Astarions interest. You can get a cutscene of him reading it, but nothing happens further. On the table in the cellar where you find it, research notes mention "true resurrection" spell and how the book may have the answers. Then in Sorcerous Sundries vault you find a book which is supposed to help you decode the Necromancy, but nothing happens if you do read it? Kind of feels like curing Astarion was supposed to be an alternative ending for him. . Similarly with Karlach her second engine fix is said to not be a cure and to find Dammon later. The entire problem is the metal making up the chamber runs too hot outside of hell. A steel watcher tells her that her engine is faulty and an obsolete model. Some steel watchers drop improved infernal iron which could easily be used as the material able to withstand the heat. Alternatively, if the steel watch engines were designed by Gondians, they could give her the upgrade, provided you rescue them.
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