Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion [END SPOILS WARNING] Addressing Karlach (PLEASE PUT SPOILERS IN TAGS)

I wouldn't look at it as Larian poking fun at the #JusticeForKarlach people. That scene was probably finished few months ago and Larian just ended up putting it back into the game to tame the waves of discontent.

Here's to hoping her quest and later the ending gets the improvement she deserves but I also hope they tone it down on the Marvel tier writing. (that scene was painful to watch, oh god the cringe)

Eh, more than good enough. It wouldn't fit a character like SH, but it's Karlach.

Please keep in mind that Larian must have wanted patch 2 out yesterday because of console sales. It says something that Karlach was a priority adjustment.

I don't expect the (lack of) epilogue/slideshow to be easily fixable. It still fixed 2 of my biggest gripes in the game (though the closet solution is actually camp and hilarious). To Narnia you go!

Honestly, if this was done months ago it makes it even more sad that the cutscene is a laggy mess. Also the random cigar smoking makes it even more weird and random, almost like they are actually throwing shade at Karlach fans.
"Here look at Karlach smoking a cigar like a total badass and running towards 0 enemies with 15 frames per second"

Yeah, I'm not sure I can even be bothered to comment. The previous ending was a random "fuck you" thrown at people who cared about the character. There's a problem, there's a whole host of solutions, but out of nowhere Larian decides that nope, you actually can't do jack shit about that problem, so fuck you if you cared about it.

Larian's response? Lol, this is totally how we wanted it, nothing got cut for time pressure, we always wanted to throw a massive red herring at the player, so have an "improved" ending that really underlines our "fuck you for caring" attitude.

Having more meat on that particular ending is an improvement, I suppose. But if the complaint was a rushed and lazily written ending then this update isn't really going to change that, is it?

THAT's the ending that she DESERVES? I really hope this is just a case of salvaging cut assets and throwing something together to bide time until Larian can give us the ending we all wanted to see. I just wish they would say if this is the case or not rather than get people's hopes up like this.

#JusticeForKarlach!

This is a patch. If we want real content, we're going to be best case waiting for weeks to months, and worst case the definite edition. The problem with the prior ending is that it was very much as if the player had failed her missions, not a neutral resolution.

Again, no other companion got this treatment. She is not the only character with a red herring problem. I don't think addressing the red herrings was the idea at all, but the tone of the ending. It seemed like certain death to many people before, and not "let's run amok until Zariel gets tired".

So I just saw the new ending and THAT's NOT THE ENDING SHE DESERVES and is definetly not a happy ending. I don't know why larian thinks that one of the best and nicest character deserves such a bad ending but she doesn't. I will keep fighting for her to get the happy ending she deserve but at this point I think that until the definitive edition we are not getting anything else for her when it comes to her ending but I can hope.

#JusticeForKarlach!

Yeah, i hope that a true new ending is in the works.
The new one dosnt change what most of us are talking about.
Its the sudden

So i hope there is still work being done

I just saw it again in all 3 variations. Yes it is far better than before, but
Again and again hoping for the future complete quest line with heart fix

I think I'm done... Between this "deserved" ending (which is clearly just content which should've been in the game to begin with) and the inconsistencies and half-truths peppered all over the last community update, I think I'm finally done...

And this isn't just about dearest Karlach anymore, it's about the whole thing.

I'll finish the game for the first and probably last time, I think, just to... stop, I guess.

And I'll leave my headcanon ending here, as a sort of exorcism...

I still maintain that this is more that we could've reasonably expected from a patch not even a full month in. Should it've been in the game since the beginning - probably, but so are many other things that get patched, that's the whole point of a patch. Now, if it was called a DLC - that would be a whole other thing (see plot-important characters being DLC-locked in Mass Effect for example).

The most frustrating thing here is the way they phrased it. We're also responsible for getting overhyped way too quickly, but the whole 'new and optional ending she deserves that will make a lot of people happy' phrasing was really unnecessary. As someone who has worked as a community manager before - not in the gaming industry, but still - I am really questioning that approach. Half of us are really more mad about that than the update itself.

I'll hold out hope for a new quest path for her later in DE or for a DLC or some other way to actually follow through on the leads. That desire haven't changed. Either give me the opportunity to work for it and fix her or truly make me feel like I did everything I could.

For the current state of things, however, I'm glad I at least won't be seeing cut to black once I reach the end.

(P.S. Did spoil the cutscene for myself and I have to say I don't understand why so many people are mad about the running at the end. It's clearly meant to be slowmo.)

Honestly, I didn't expect anything else from them, my hopes stayed the same throughout... But, as you've said, the way they presented things and the way they've handled pretty much every other complaint was... ill-advised, to say the least...

That sunk my hopes for the future below sea level, and I have no expectations anymore. I just feel that I want to put the entire thing behind me.

I don't have the energy to judge anyone for anything anymore, it's been an exhausting month as far as this game's concerned...

My view on BG3 as a whole is that if there's a game that has/had the potential to be truly great, this is it.

In between fleshing out Act 3 and improving the endings/epilogues, perhaps Larian could drop a notch on the "Larian way" of doing things. Not everything needs to be bittersweet and with a plot twist at every corner. There's plenty of that in this game that is actually very well made (Shadowheart's choices are very bittersweet but quite congruent in the existing universe). With Karlach? There's resurrection scrolls in the Frogotten Realms for pity's sake. Her possible endings don't compute in that context. Instead of player choice, we're funneled into a narrative swamp.

That, together with the nonsensical consequence of using the orphic hammer, have us players looking at the uncanny valley. Of course there would be backlash! Please fix this, Larian.

Larian: "Sorry, no can do. But we can offer you more colours for underwear or a duckling you can keep in your camp. Your call.

Hi everyone! Just like many here, I decided to join the forum because I feel that what we've been given in terms of Karlach's ending (even after Patch 2) is down right cruel and immensely disappointing. Just adding my two cents.

I think confirming that the HAPPY ending where we fix the engine and let her stay with the PC is coming would be good enough to help with this sheer dread I'm feeling haha

The madmen really did this. They broke their own narrative and a character for a meme. Let me explain.

Karlach mentions very expressively several times that it's better to die than return to Avernus. Before the update this narrative was consistent: she pretty much wants to die until you convince her otherwise. That dialogue option in the end really lacked persuasion check. And going to Avernus without a supervision from higher power and/or protection of one of the demon lords is just a hopeless suicide mission, especially for characters below 18-ish lvl. This is not doom, characters have fatigue and eventually hordes of hostile demons will end the party. That was the tragedy of that choice as she just decides how to die:
- Sacrifice her life so the Larvae could take over and save everyone so noone else has to die
- Just wait the engine to explode under the sky she was missing for 10 years
- Go to hated Avernus to get overrun by hordes of demons with a unbelievably slim chance of survival, not long enough for it to matter and suffer more of a life she managed to escape.
All these choices are valid for her "failed state" from her narrative. She prefers to die or turn squid (die) rather than return to hell and suffer more. Only saving grace in "return together" is that now she isn't alone, but now her mistress hunts her and I just don't see anything happy from this solution rather than prolonged suffering.

And Larians just came and shit all over the narrative they wrote themselves. Now "return to hell" is not one of sad but fitting endings, they turned it into a crossover between american dream jokes and doom game. Only things that were abscent from that ridiculous cutscene ware the flag in the background and eagle's screech when she hit that double cigars out of nowhere. I was damn speechless. Now there is no point to choose from any of her outcomes because "return to hell" isn't scary, it's just cheap comedic badassary all over fit for a game that doesn't take itself seriously. I would really prefer them to leave everything as it is than to turn this difficult ending into a meme. Nobody asked to change her narrative or expand any of her existing endings.

Now I'm convinced that Larian as a studio completely lacks any competent vision for their projects on their own. Combat systems in DOS games are questionable, BG3 has copypasted 5e rules not even fully implemented. Start of the game is awesome because of 3 years of early access, after that they had to write the story and ending themselves and see how it turned out. I guess they need another 3 years of full dev cycle based on extensive player feedback to fix the narrative and ending. Welcome to EA 2.0.

P.S. Oh and them cigars are just a cherry on top. I despise smoking and from my principles just can't romance her anymore I guess. Yeah maybe I'm being petty and nobody owns me anything and can write their character however they like but they just had to do it didn't they?

This would be enough for me as well. But the problem is their messaging is so confusing and inconsistent with what's actually being done with the game. It makes me wonder if they know what the actual problem people have with her ending is.

That's pretty much the case with devs beholden to corporations (hello BioWare/EA & ME3) with very little chance of substantial changes. There's actual hope in this case as there should be a good amount of ($$$) cushion, flexibility and goodwill to improve according to feedback.

Looking at a dev/writer's perspective, I don't think in this case (or in the nonsensical consequence of using the orphic hammer) that they'd be caving in to the entitled mob demanding what we think we deserve. We're providing an outside view to what are arguably glaring cracks to the otherwise very well done narrative and choice/consequence.

They're mainstream now (that is a feat in itself for this type of hardcore RPG) and a slight tweak to their formula is basically all that's needed, IMO.

Anyway, we're all humans, and we tend to do the oddest things when we're fatigued. We need to help each other once in a while, and I'd like to think that that's what we're all trying to do right now. Help Larian make a great game even greater.

TL;DR: give them time

While I'm still not particularly thrilled with the endings to her story, it is at least nice that Larian seems to recognize the community's displeasure and took such prompt steps to at least put a band-aid on it.

I'm also not saying that they need to remove the current endings because they're too tragic. By all means leave them in, some people like tragedy and that's okay. People should be allowed to go for the ending that they want. But the fact that we are left with basically taking arsenic with bread and butter or taking it straight is not satisfying.

But what if we slap some jam on that arsenic sandwitch to make it badass huh? Are you happy now?