Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion [END SPOILS WARNING] Addressing Karlach (PLEASE PUT SPOILERS IN TAGS)

The madmen really did this. They broke their own narrative and a character for a meme. Let me explain.

Karlach mentions very expressively several times that it's better to die than return to Avernus. Before the update this narrative was consistent: she pretty much wants to die until you convince her otherwise. That dialogue option in the end really lacked persuasion check. And going to Avernus without a supervision from higher power and/or protection of one of the demon lords is just a hopeless suicide mission, especially for characters below 18-ish lvl. This is not doom, characters have fatigue and eventually hordes of hostile demons will end the party. That was the tragedy of that choice as she just decides how to die:
- Sacrifice her life so the Larvae could take over and save everyone so noone else has to die
- Just wait the engine to explode under the sky she was missing for 10 years
- Go to hated Avernus to get overrun by hordes of demons with a unbelievably slim chance of survival, not long enough for it to matter and suffer more of a life she managed to escape.
All these choices are valid for her "failed state" from her narrative. She prefers to die or turn squid (die) rather than return to hell and suffer more. Only saving grace in "return together" is that now she isn't alone, but now her mistress hunts her and I just don't see anything happy from this solution rather than prolonged suffering.

And Larians just came and shit all over the narrative they wrote themselves. Now "return to hell" is not one of sad but fitting endings, they turned it into a crossover between american dream jokes and doom game. Only things that were abscent from that ridiculous cutscene ware the flag in the background and eagle's screech when she hit that double cigars out of nowhere. I was damn speechless. Now there is no point to choose from any of her outcomes because "return to hell" isn't scary, it's just cheap comedic badassary all over fit for a game that doesn't take itself seriously. I would really prefer them to leave everything as it is than to turn this difficult ending into a meme. Nobody asked to change her narrative or expand any of her existing endings.

Now I'm convinced that Larian as a studio completely lacks any competent vision for their projects on their own. Combat systems in DOS games are questionable, BG3 has copypasted 5e rules not even fully implemented. Start of the game is awesome because of 3 years of early access, after that they had to write the story and ending themselves and see how it turned out. I guess they need another 3 years of full dev cycle based on extensive player feedback to fix the narrative and ending. Welcome to EA 2.0.

P.S. Oh and them cigars are just a cherry on top. I despise smoking and from my principles just can't romance her anymore I guess. Yeah maybe I'm being petty and nobody owns me anything and can write their character however they like but they just had to do it didn't they?

This would be enough for me as well. But the problem is their messaging is so confusing and inconsistent with what's actually being done with the game. It makes me wonder if they know what the actual problem people have with her ending is.

That's pretty much the case with devs beholden to corporations (hello BioWare/EA & ME3) with very little chance of substantial changes. There's actual hope in this case as there should be a good amount of ($$$) cushion, flexibility and goodwill to improve according to feedback.

Looking at a dev/writer's perspective, I don't think in this case (or in the nonsensical consequence of using the orphic hammer) that they'd be caving in to the entitled mob demanding what we think we deserve. We're providing an outside view to what are arguably glaring cracks to the otherwise very well done narrative and choice/consequence.

They're mainstream now (that is a feat in itself for this type of hardcore RPG) and a slight tweak to their formula is basically all that's needed, IMO.

Anyway, we're all humans, and we tend to do the oddest things when we're fatigued. We need to help each other once in a while, and I'd like to think that that's what we're all trying to do right now. Help Larian make a great game even greater.

TL;DR: give them time

While I'm still not particularly thrilled with the endings to her story, it is at least nice that Larian seems to recognize the community's displeasure and took such prompt steps to at least put a band-aid on it.

I'm also not saying that they need to remove the current endings because they're too tragic. By all means leave them in, some people like tragedy and that's okay. People should be allowed to go for the ending that they want. But the fact that we are left with basically taking arsenic with bread and butter or taking it straight is not satisfying.

But what if we slap some jam on that arsenic sandwitch to make it badass huh? Are you happy now?

I’m a bit confused reading that there’s

It really seemed like the writers were clearly telegraphing there would be some way to help her.

I love a good tragedy, but it would feel a lot more earned if our character actually
You go through hell and back for half the other companion quests, but with Karlach
It would be a lot more meaningful if after trying everything, you realize
Pausing my Karlach playthrough for now -

Reloaded my last savegame of my first playthrough with the final conversation with Karlach and watched the "extended epilogue" yesterday. I was somehow shocked and irritated how out of character Karlach acted.


I appreciate the work Larian is investing but I still have hopes for a happy ending for Karlach and my Tav.

While I'm generally agreeing with the overall displeasure with the endings - obviously - I really wish people would
All that being said I once again repeat that I really hope that this is a bandaid and her actual quest will be fleshed out down the line, so that whatever endings we get feel actually deserved according to the way we played (preferably including actually HELPING her) and not just frustratingly set in stone. Lest someone thinks I'm defending the current state of things as good enough.

So I was going to respond to this yesterday but the forums were kinda nuked all day, I wonder why.

Honestly I'm impressed with Larian studios, it's pretty amazing to see them put out such a major patch so quickly. I do love and appreciate their commitment to making the game better and better. So I'm happy and impressed with the devs here for all they've done to get this in our hands right away.

However as soon as I saw that patch 2 was being released so quickly I knew that Larian would not deliver on a new ending for Karlach as they promised. It was obvious, there was no way they'd be able to implement that much new content that quickly.

In the end Karlach's endings are still hot garbage.

This isn't the ending your fans and customers want, this isn't the ending she deserves. Worse yet the way you presented these changes gave us a lot of false hope, now it feels like you straight up lied to your customers. And for what?

So yeah, I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed.

Looks like we'll need to keep beating this drum for a long time to come.

#JusticeForKarlach

The thing is, that this is not a fanservice in terms of fans want good ending, we will give them what they want. This is more like we gave our fans incomplete game and we should do our best to fix it and reclaim our reputation. (this applies for whole act3)

Quite. They’ve have been better off just saying they’d patched a couple of things that weren’t triggering properly and were working on bigger improvements. Details to follow in time.

So predictable.

THIS!!! So much this. I literally just made my account just to get onto the forums just because I felt like I needed to talk about this!

Larian, WHAT THE HELL?! This isn't what we wanted and this isn't what Karlach deserves. And yeah, I was extremely skeptical as well, I wanted to hold off playing until the new update to see what to make of it. But now? Seeing you, as I expected, oversell what you were giving us only to leave us disappointed? It's not even a new ending! It's just a fancy new cinematic tacked onto the ending we hated!

This is the kind of thing that makes me feel ignored and destroys my trust in a studio. It makes me feel like the game isn't worth continuing. Which HURTS to say! I love the game! I want to keep playing it, and I want there to be more amazing and successful queer-friendly games like this one! But I'm sick and tired of having to deal with nothing but unsatisfying endings. Not just in Baldur's Gate III but in so many other things too. Maybe I'm being overdramatic but...this hurts. At this point I just expect to constantly be let down. I can't keep doing this...

Unlike Caios I think I might actually be a little mad. My disappointment is immeasurable but it would be a lie to say that I'm not mad.

The new ending is OK enough for me.

I mean you couldnt even go to Avernus with her if you romanced her and had Wyll as Blade of Avernus with you

I respect that, I think the new ending is quite good. I love the dumb 80s vibe it has.


Is it an improvement? Certainly. It is not however a satisfying ending for someone who worked so hard to fix her.

I'd have hoped they'd add a fix for her heart. With everything we can see in the game, it's absolutely not plausible that she can't have a happy ending.

It's definitely plausible but the thing is, I am at a point where I don't believe it's ever going to happen. I think this is all that we're ever going to get.

I'm so tired. I'm so very fucking tired. I'm sick and tired of screaming and screaming and screaming and being ignored.

The thing is, I wouldnt consider this as cool to be honest. Its, as far as the information goes, completly out of character for Karach to just wip out 2 cigars and smoke them saying she gave em up a long time ago, yet she never mentioned she was smoking once in her life. That would be okay if she didnt tell us that, but the fact she basically told us her entire backstory and what she did and went through, it feels so weird they just popped the "Im a Smoker" sticker on Karlach...

I agree, but I'm gonna chalk that up to "Oh no guys the fans are REALLY mad about Karlach and we gotta throw something together."

Is it dumb? Yes.
Is it campy? Definitely.
Is it in character? Probably not.

Do I think it's an acceptable peace offering until they add something better? Sure, for now.

Also, I HAVE to add it, and no, I won't spoiler-tag this. Smoking is BAD. This was a really silly and cheap move.

Out of nowhere. Out of character. Out of place.