Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Modding Not too be needy, or unappreciative...

This game was so needed, in the modern gaming catalog. As someone who sat outside of an Electronics Boutique store at 5AM along with the Senior Citizen Mall Walker gangs, waiting to grab my copy of Fallout [1], and again a few years later for Neverwinter Nights, this game is soo refreshing. I've also been extremely disappointed, especially with the CRPG offerings over the years. There has been a long stretch of poorly made, or dumbed down RPG games in general.

So my biggest question for Larian is will they release the tools used to create BG3? Simular to NWN's Toolset? Is it even needed, or was BG3 created using a retail engine, and there is no way, or need, for such a thing?

Releasing the Toolset for NWN allowed for literal years worth of content created (sometimes in better quality) by the community. There were whole persistent worlds created and operated by the community (Dragonlance, Forgotten Realms, etc.). I dumped a lot of free time into that game over the years...

Mods and new adventures were flowing consistently. There's still content being made. I'm hoping and wishing that this can be the future of BG3.

I personally started creating a module based on Dark Sun, but lacked the free time to complete it. But the Toolset made it feasible for damn near anyone to do the same. Scripting was made easy. Textures and Tiles were plentiful...

All in all, since Larian has pretty much said they have no plans for expansions (last I read), it seems it's up to the community for continuity.

That being said, can you guys (modders) whip up a full blown Undermountain mod?

KThanksBye

Larian has said we will likely never get a DM mode or dungeon creator due to certain complexities. Maybe next game.

But they have indicated support for modding; however, modding for Larian games is usually restricted to cosmetic and mechanical changes, not new content.

Good day to all, this is my first post and I strongly support Destep's point: NWN's DM mode, the server application and the Aurora Toolset has made the NWN series basically immortal.

I and my friends are still playing in a NWN:EE persistent server 22 years after its first release in 2002.

I have loved BG3 a lot and I strongly believe that it deserves to become immortal too! And of course I'm ready to pay for it.

Yeah, I am 100% with you on this. The core module for Bg3 is not great for true multiplayer as it's too long and sprawling. The engine is amazing for multiplayer but we need more tools to work with to create anything that isn't just superficial bullshit.

Or Larian has to start creating stuff - DM mode aside it's just an incredible waste of an engine to not have anything else to showcase it with except for the core game.

The immortality of NWN is one I can attest to personally as I played the game for a decade with some of the fan made content that came out.

We don't really need VA work for any additional multiplayer modules - just a way to re-use and manipulate assets.

Larian has been suspiciously mum about this when asked. My theory is modding tools were planned to come out shortly after launch. Then the game blew up in terms of sales and console ports got quickly prioritized. And this delayed tools release considerably as they then had to bugfix 4 distinct platforms (PC, Mac, PS5 and Xbox). For some comparison Divinity Original Sin 1/2 didn't have console ports until their "Definitive editions" released a year after launch.

I do think they'll eventually release something, but what that something is nobody knows as of yet. For some comparison, CD Projekt eventually released something for The Witcher 3 (and they're even releasing a Redkit for it later this year). Swen stated it would allow for creating custom environments but he also said it would be a lot of work on the modder's part. Hopefully it'll be at least as robust as Divinity Original Sin 1's toolset which allowed for creating entirely custom modular environments.

My theory as to when it'll happen is tricky. Larian is most likely going to release a new BG3 update relatively soon. So it may happen then. Otherwise, Swen is going to GDC in March so he may bring it up there as he's been asked to on Twitter. The latest I could see the toolset being announced is the 1 year anniversary. As I suspect Larian might release a "Definitive edition" of Baldur's Gate 3 like they did with Divinity Original Sin 1/2. Which both released a year after launch for their respective games. It would be logical if they're also already working on Definitive edition to simply make the tools exclusive to that version as well.
Uhh what? D:OS1 and 2 allowed for creating entirely new modular content. If you mean "players usually only make cosmetic and mechanical changes" that's also wrong. DOS:1 and 2's tools allow for the creating of entirely custom adventures. Here I'll post a few.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1579783444&searchtext=
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1136564031&searchtext=
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1415357694&searchtext=

I guess these don't exist or something? People have been passionately creating new content in Larian's engines for years now. To imply it isn't possible or doesn't exist is frankly rude towards the fan community who has worked tirelessly on it.

People have already been creating cosmetic and mechanical change mods right now for BG3. A tools release is needed to go further than that.

Thank you for this. It's nice to see a researched, well-thought out take with citations instead of the usual lazy bullshit people spew. It also gives me some hope that we will eventually get what we have been asking for - AND what we were promised for BG3 in regards to modding and multiplayer.

I kind of understood that Larian is trying to put out fires with the console releases at this point, especially the Xbox so this may not come out for a while.

The amount of misinformation about this subject is staggering. I've seen so much of it both here and on the official Larian discord. It's why I really wish Larian would just give us more details already as it's starting to cause a problem where people assume it's been cancelled or was never planned to begin with.

For example: I've seen people claim that Wizards of the Coast has forced Larian to cancel the idea because of a licensing issue with the Dungeons and Dragons IP. This claim has zero evidence and I have no idea where it comes from. Nobody at Larian or anywhere else has said this. There's also a lot of evidence to the contrary. Solasta: Crown of the Magister another D&D 5.0 based game has a toolset for example. It also has a Steam workshop with approximately 700 custom levels released thus far. It also makes zero sense why Swen would announce tool releases two separate times if Wizards of the Coast legally prevented them from releasing.

Swen's comments back in July were very clear.
These comments very clearly state that they'll release something that will allow for creating custom environments. Which is the one thing the community can't as of yet do.

The reason I believe it was delayed is because the toolset previously came out at launch for D:OS1/2. Whereas for BG3 they always said "after launch". Swen also had an interview with PC Gamer at launch where he said it would come out after the PS5 port. Which released on September 6th 2023. Then we heard nothing about it after that. They patched the epilogue in. And then released the Xbox version in December without an announcement.

My theory as to the timeline is thus.

• BG3 is planned to release on PC first, PS5 port later
• Swen fully plans to release its toolset after the PS5 port. They've never done a simultaneous release on console so logically they delay the toolset
• BG3 explodes in sales, does way better than expected
• Larian prioritizes fixing bugs in the meantime while they put out the PS5 port
• The PS5 port releases. It sells tremendously well. Microsoft finds out about this and requests they make an Xbox port asap
• Larian decides to prioritize putting out the Xbox port as a result and spends October and November on it. And it releases at the beginning of December

At this point it's only a question of when. Either: Soon, since it's been 2 months since the Xbox port. Which is right around when it was originally planned to release. Alternatively they're going to just write off releasing the toolset right now and wait until they inevitably release Baldur's Gate 3 Definitive Edition. At this point I'm expecting it'll either be announced with Patch 6, or when Swen goes to GDC in March, or at the one year anniversary in August. Only time will tell which option they go with.

I have been guilty of thinking the delay to modding is due to a limited license scheme with Hasbro. However, it may make more sense that it's just too much for them to handle all the concurrent releases and all the bug squashing that needs to happen.

I mean the Xbox version eats save games and sometimes the PS5 version does as well. Clearly in a triage situation those would be the priority.

So where are we now? Are the fires out or are the console versions still bleeding?

On top of that they are building their own internal team to handle the MacOS work because they were not happy with the quality of the work being done by the 3rd party company they hired.

Hey, any more news on this topic?

Not yet. Larian hasn't said a word about the toolset yet. I'm personally hoping Swen finally tells us the status of it in March when he goes to GDC. He asked for questions to answer on Twitter and that was one of the questions I submitted.

understood, thank you.

I just discovered Blackheifer misquoted Swen during the Dropped Frames interview. Here's the original quote that was originally posted here.


Here's the actual transcription of the interview:


A very key difference here is the interviewer and Swen were far more explicit about DM mode vs custom environment support. He also doesn't bring up DM mode in the second statement. I'm not sure why it was inserted into the quote. He also says right at the end "I'm not saying it's undoable". Which is referring to how it will be possible to make a custom environment it will just be really hard to do.

I do frankly think it would be a little far fetched for Larian to outright not support custom environments altogether. I do wish they'd tell us to quell the debates about it already. I see "Larian isn't going to let us make custom campaigns" because of that quote on a nearly daily basis. However he makes it clear it will allow for custom dungeons. If they also allow for custom scripting that would in effect allow for custom campaigns, they'd just not be usable to make a virtual tabletop like DOS2 did.

Winke talks like a politician there. Talks a lot without saying much. No DM tool is plain enough but the 'we will support modding', 'there will be a lot of support for modding', 'Not right away'' is all a bit vague and non-specific.

I had to paraphrase but even at this point I would take both my and his statements as unreliable until we get an update from them on what they are thinking modding will look like. They already left out the creation of Custom Campaigns AND DM mode in the most recent statement they made.

"Together with the platform holders, we are working on making this a reality, and are forming a team to support mod curation. We’re aiming to offer modding support for things like classes, UI, customisation, spells, and certain assets and game mechanics."

So I stand by my paraphrase, he was too wishy washy to about it to give an affirmative on that, BUT I HOPE I AM WRONG!!

Swen was pretty clear in both statements. The tl;dr is
"We won't do DM mode because it was never planned and it'd be too much work implementing it into a now finished game" and "We will support making custom environments like dungeons it'll just be a lot of work on the modder's part to do it". Which if you've used DOS2's toolset it does have a learning curve but it's completely usable.
I do agree it's vague but I'd argue there is enough to piece together a reasonable expectation of what's coming.
With this I think Salo wasn't talking about what the tools they're making will allow for. I think she was talking about what mods will be available via the cross platform mod support. It's mentioned right there with "Together with platform holders". The reason I think this is because one major issue with cross platform mod support is platform holders have different rules around it. Sony infamously requires that any mods not feature custom assets. Which is an immediate limitation you'll notice if you play Skyrim on PS4/PS5 and check what mods are available and compare it to the Xbox version.

Salo's message is also very carefully worded. They say.
Those are all theoretically things that wouldn't violate Sony's policy. Mentioning "certain assets" implies that they're going to be very rigid with what will be allowed and not allowed. This would also obviously exclude custom environments as that would rely on custom assets. They also don't mention much more basic things like custom armor, weapons and races which we can do right now without tools. It goes without saying that the cross platform mod curation wouldn't apply to the PC platform and Valves Steam Workshop which has no limitations.

I fully believe that they will release an environment editor I just wish they'd give us peace of mind finally and say "yep. It's coming"

I'm just glad there are other people invested in this stuff besides me and a handful of other folks. We've been banging this drum for three years now talking about how amazing the actual game engine is and how much could be done with it with the right tools and support.

That Larian could take this engine and make other stuff with it that is more multiplayer friendly - small self-contained adventures, or entire modules that already exist and it would sell. Or they could contract it out to a 3rd party and reap some profits off the use of its engine.

I was starting to give up hope that Larian even cared about multiplayer or had forgotten. I'm actually pretty stoked that the Mod community stood up and bonked them on the nose.

Like BG3 is a great game but it's the Engine that it sits on that is absolutely amazing - and people who experienced NWN multiplayer seem to understand best what I mean.

Anyway, fingers crossed.

No modding tools or dungeon maker etc...?

Thank console support for that.

They didn't say that as I quoted. They just spoke about what they will support via the cross platform mod support. Swen's statements in July were really clear as I outlined in https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=937932#Post937932

So it looks like there won't be DLCs or Bg4, not to mention a tool set or a DM mode, this is really bad:

https://www.ign.com/articles/larian...c-then-canceled-it-the-studio-was-elated

Honestly all of the above makes absolutely no sense to me: I can understand no DM mode, but also no DLCs or Bg4?

It's good for Larian, good for the BG franchise, good for D&D, and good for me personally. This is the best news I've heard involving Larian since BG3 was announced. I'm actually finding myself curious and interested in what those two new projects Swen talks about may be. I hope at least one of them turns out to be a Larian game I will like, finally!