Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Halsin Romance, Expectations and Obligatory Poly

To be honest I think that Larian misinterpreted what people wanted from Halsin. In EA some folks were making memes and sex jokes about him which led to Larian making him into a 'meme' character.

When I look at Halsin (now) I only see a sex pest and not a druid with a traumatic past (Isobel/Kethric thing), everything about him revolves around 'Can I join?' and 'I can not commit to you because I want to enjoy the natures beauty' (I'm not even going to mention the bear thing)

I was never a fan of polyamory so I wouldn't mind if Larian removed that option entirely and if its that important for his character, have him mention it as something that was part of his past but have his romance be one of commitment.

I've been blasting through my playthroughs trying to see as much as I can story and romance wise and Halsin next to Minthara just feels like a last second addition to the companion roster where they decided to shove all the missing choices/options (poly, kinks etc.) into his story so they can say 'See we have it all!' (In my opinion it kinda ruined his character and other companions that are tied to it also)

larian reads their own forum posts, so im curious on if any of you older forum members recalled seeing thirst posts about Halsin? Were there posts equally asking for him to be proper romance option instead of a one night stand?

There were lots of folks saying, "I want to romance Halsin", me included. I can't speak to what they meant by that, only what I meant, which was not: "I want to bang him a couple of times, then maybe show up at his place every few months or so and bang him again." But I'm a dyed-in-the-wool hopeless romantic who digs stories about true love and soulmates and all that jazz. Many video game romances just aren't written to have that kind of ending.

Well, I'll be!

I was wondering as to why a character like Shadowheart that spends her entire story rejecting opening the relationship and being against sharing suddenly after finishing her quest changes her mind and acts out of character/contradicts everything she says.

Her and Halsin have the same writer.

The whole rejection of a mono relationship and not giving players a happy ending with Halsin, the whole out of character behavior from Shadowheart, the whole (my apologies for the language) fucked up emotional manipulation of Astarion, they all make sense now! lol


I really do hope these things change. (I still haven't decided what my main character or their romance is going to be but these three despite being on the top are dropping fast because of a unnecessary fetish being showed in)


I honestly think that the majority of people prefer stories that are like that. Saving the day and having your happy ever after and not the 'mature' you get cheated on/cant commit/we are breaking up etc. kind of ending.

That's a somewhat strange thing to say considering how Astarion reacts if you're emotionally interested in other people. He's not happy at all. He's extremely insecure and *also* sexually traumatised.

I don't think there were fetishes involved. I just get the impression that whoever did Halsin desperately needed a sensitivity reader. Best case, the writer wasn't aware how much ended on the cutting room floor.

As someone who knows people extremely horny about vampires, I don't think that's the deal with Astarion, either. First red flag: no mention of the fangs for way too long. No real vampire enthusiast can shut up this long about the fangs. Second, the blood drinking is described as painful and not pleasurable. If you are aware of the historical and psychological nuances, this is a no-go. Third, the framing of the whole ascension situation is too tragic. It as an actual tragic framework, not "sad". I sense an imposter. This person is as horny about vampires as stale bread.

Astarion is exactly why I only trust people with a fetish for vampires to get vampires right. Otherwise, you're going get a story where somebody happens to be a vampire and it's a bad thing! Imagine that! You're not supposed to be thinking for one minute: this character would be so much cooler, if only they weren't thirsty for my blood! If this game were less weird and more horny, there'd be fewer plot holes, less manipulation and more happy endings.

You don't get the best out of Astarion unless you play a good Durge. Halsin is as good as terminally bugged, with the last "romance scenes" being conceived explicitly for when NO romance flags were triggered. SH, I won't ever complain about SH. She and Lae'Zel were clearly Larian's favourites and I'm salty.

I see things differently so I think you and I would disagree. You say more horniness would've been better but to me that said horniness is what's making these character worse. For all of Larians posturing about the game being 'mature' and having intimacy professionals the games writing and its romances just come of as someone's poorly written fan fiction.

I don't think its strange to say that the game treats Astarion and his trauma poorly. Like you said he's been used and abused for hundreds of years by Cazador so his willingness to share is not really there. He is still insecure and doesn't want to get hurt. The whole idea of sharing and opening the relationship leans into that without a version of him saying no. The whole thing is being treated as a funny thing because Astarion is 'cute when he squirms/is uncomfortable' (same as his ending where it turns into a ha ha he's burning in the sun)

Karlach has the same problem. If you decide to sleep with Mizora she goes ballistic. She cries her heart out but if you just say sorry all is forgiven and forgotten. You'd think this character would break up on the spot for betraying her in such a way.

Shadowheart has it the worst in this regard. Throughout her entire story she is adamant that she's against sharing/opening the relationship/polyamory, she straight up says on multiple occasions with multiple companions (if you try it) that she doesn't want to be your spare lover and that she doesn't want to be shared and play a second fiddle to someone. (she is even sad if you pursue someone else at the same time and thinks its over between the two of you) And yet if you go out of your way to visit the drow twins that suddenly changes. She flirts with Halsin during that scene while ignoring the MC. Same thing happens with Mizora.

It feels as if Halsin was the writers pet in this case and for his character other already established character and their stances should change.

And finally Halsin, I already made my stance on his released game version. The depth and the development is not there and if it was there it's gone now. His main defining trait is that he's a sex pest which is rather disappointing.

So yeah I can say that the writing when it comes to Halsins/Shadows writer feels like a poorly disguised fetish because one of his characters is a meme that focuses on zoophilia (ha ha sex with bears) and the other is a out of character behavior for the sake of a poly relationship.

There are promiscuous/poly/hook up etc. companions in RPGs that I like but this one just isn't it. Everything in this game just has this weird feeling about it the deeper you get into it.

But maybe its just me, maybe my idea of having the typical fantasy story where your character saves the day and ends up with their partner without some twist is not meant to happen in this game.

Either way I think the derailment of this thread has gone long enough. I tried to stick to just voicing my issues with Halsin and the needed improvement to his story but the irritation (if you can call it that) with the rest of the writing got the better of me.

^you're completely valid, i always hope the devs see these strong critiques and act accordingly for any future content...
from what I see, people are calling halsin the romance where you fuck a bear, its frustrating, considering in the final stretches of EA, i saw halsins potential as a romance option rivaling that of alistair from dragonage orgins.

Halsin deserves better. He should be more than “the romance where you fuck a bear”.

I’ve never really cared for the sex aspect when it comes to romance in video games. It’s the bonding and emotional side that I really enjoy. Unfortunately, I found Halsin’s romance is severely lacking on both those fronts.

I hope they are able to change his character for the better.

The drow stuff especially, is really uncomfortable. I didn’t know it was a thing when I played because I didn’t partake in the drows.

I seriously don’t think a topic like that should ever be played off as this “light thing”. It wasn’t written or portrayed respectfully, and it leaves a sour taste in my mouth thinking about it. I was so disappointed when I saw how those lines were handled. I don’t care what gender or race somebody is. I don’t care if it’s fictional or not. SA should never EVER be a light topic. It’s extremely traumatizing and triggering. How that got green lit, I cannot fathom nor can I understand….

I don't disagree that the game gives people too many opportunities to be sexual to not harm the story telling. Mainly because of the time and place. I would not necessarily personally equate that to being sexualised nor horny.

E.g. vampires -- prime example. Can be incredibly horny, but not explicit. Some would even argue that is the *point* of vampires. During a time when lesbian relationships were taboo, you found extremely horny yet innocuous vampire stories -- exclusively featuring women. With vampires, you find the least expected being sexualised. It's a horniness that transcends the flesh.

You can also be extremely and weirdly horny about the dumbest vanilla shit. Even write the least horny sex scenes imagineable. I would enquate "not horny" to "unethusiastic about the subject", yet in Larian's case "mixing it with sex all the time". Arguably, your gripe with SH is an example of that. Larian does not believe in anything other than spiciness. The "spicier, the hotter" is a poor philosophy and probably why you assume this is the author's poorly disguised kink... and I the author's poor attempt at writing what they *perceived to be* kink. Because they were not sufficiently enthusiastic. Not about SH's rather default romance, not Astarion's hangups, nor even Halsin being consistently anything. It's an exercise in wanting too much and offering too little, in losing your identity.

This whole thread exemplifies why I like


I don't really have a lot to add about halsin in particular because you guys already said it all!

The way sex is handled reminds me of today's shitty hookup culture.

Ugh.

Agreed, lol. My latest play through, I have romanced nobody because the characters that interest me have romances that go nowhere and have no emotional investment or growth.

Like sure, sex is nice and all. But like, do you know what’s really nice? A healthy relationship where two people truly love each other and are willing to overcome life’s difficulties to remain together.

Maybe I’m the outlier here, I don’t know.

That is honestly, why I like the Shadowheart romance - first date, drinking wine, talking all night and at the end a kiss. Then some sweet scenes throughout act 2 and at teh end of act 2 or beginning of act 3 is a sex scene, that is also handled tasteful.
I don't like companions jumping at me like sex maniacs tbh.

I mean, tbh, when Halsin asks you for sex, you know him for a while, so I think, that is not so much out of the blue, but I do think, this whole poly/sex driven side of him is out of character. It doesn't really fit with his personality.

Not surprising really. The entire hype and marketing of BG3 is based on sex and giving thirsty people their waifus. Those people are also what is keeping up the BG3 hype and prevents all the problems of act 3 to become mainstream as they are shouting down everything thats not horny meme pictures.

Thats also why multiple interesting characters got rewritten into mallable waifus/husbandos.
In the end Larian knew exactly what their customers wanted. Only that many of the customers dont care about BG3 as a game and instead just want well animated waifus/husbandos they can fantasize about.

I want to give my 2 cents as someone who is:

- afab, but queer
- poly themselves with over 10 years of poly relationships
- over 30, and a parent
- European

Because I feel like a lot of this criticism is very... Hmmm... How do I put it... From an Anglo-American, non queer, very much not poly standpoint. And I get, that you don't feel this romance is handled how you want it to be, but uhm... You might not be the target audience for once?

I like the Halsin Romance. I see your critique. There's a few things you've missed (he does state some of his views if you're reading between the lines), but that doesn't mean it couldn't get more obvious.

So what do I like about the romance?
He's very open about his feelings. No playing games. He's not promising you the stars, either. He's open about his lack of jealousy, although he states in some variants (e.g. when you get it on with Mizora and then tell him you'd wish he was there with you) that he wants to have a lot of awesome moments with you. He wants to share your laughter, your joy, your pleasure. He wants you, he wants Tav, to be *happy*.

What could be better?
I think if he would mention his state of thinking earlier, maybe with a nod to Jaheira who was married(!), that would solve a lot of the issues you guys have.

Tav: "You say there were lovers, but were you committed to one of them? Married like Jaheira maybe?"
Halsin: "My heart commits to each of them on their own, but I would not want to promise something nature has not intended for me. I respect Jaheira for her choice. It is not mine. While some animals may bond forever, it's not what I can do. It's always sad when a relationship has to end because I can't give them what they want. I can assure you: my love for them will not end just because I cannot provide the type of bond they wish. I will stay a true friend for them as long as they want me."

And maybe even another dialogue later:

Tav: "Is there ever a time where your... appetite... gets lower, and you might look for someone else?"
Halsin: "I have quite the large appetite, in and out of bed. You're not telling me I've put on weight, do you?"
Tav: (1) "I meant more between the sheets. Or leaves in our case."
(2) "Maybe."
Halsin: (answer to 1) "No. But feelings can change, like the seasons. We met during a crisis. You're constantly in danger of losing your sense of self. I... who would I be to deny you anything? And maybe you'll find that I am not what you're looking for once this danger is averted. I dream of rebuilding this land... When we solved your tadpole problem... that's when you can make a decision. Until then, I just want to cherish every moment with you, my love. It that too much for you?"
Tav: (1) "I'd like to be cherished like this some more." (Leads to another sex scene)
(2) "Thank you for your understanding. It's rough." (Leads to Tav putting their head on his shoulder, and he puts an arm around you, before he kisses your forehead)

And then he should totally ask you to come with him later!

I would add another scene for when you're in the city and rest there. Have them share a bath, and Halsin washes your back with a sponge. Let them talk about what they want to do in the future. Maybe Tav can talk about wanting kids, not wanting kids, if they're a druid they can plan to make their own circle, have them talk about a marriage for a short time if Tav is a short lived race, Halsin tells a story about his childhood, or his parents, and then the scene fades while showing a wooden ducky he carved.

It doesn't take much!

Since both Astarion and Shadowheart are also okay with sharing, a scene in which the companions talk things out could be beneficial. For example:

- Astarion and Halsin talk about how A doesn't like sex as much, but he wishes Tav to be happy, and H checking in if sharing is really okay for A. And then A saying they are more afraid of loosing Tav emotionally to H, since he has problems to commit. Ending in a bear hug from H, which makes A relax.

- Halsin checking in on Shadowheart after her quest is done, asking how she's coped within the temple. She actually mentions sexual relationships were encouraged in her quest, so she could re-iterate this. Then they could talk how SH feels like she can choose for herself now, and since Tav has given her the freedom to choose, she feels like she doesn't have to monopolise them anymore. H could then talk about his feelings of it being unfair to make them choose between himself and SH, but that he also wants to enjoy his time with Tav. They come to an agreement, that nobody loses out here, and they can make it work.

Those scenes would tie the romance together with the poly options, promoting a healthy way of polyamoury.

Talk to your metamours.
Make your boundaries clear.

Maybe Tav should get an option to say "I can't share. I know you do, but I want exclusivity." and that ending the romance.

It would be fair for everyone.

So what do you guys think?

Folks, if you have issues with romances/sex in BG3 more generally, can you add them to the thread at https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=889296? Or if you have a critique of other specific romances, feel free to create a separate thread for them. (I've seen one for Wyll's romance, but not sure if there are others.)

Let's keep this one focused on Halsin's romance, so we don't just end up having the same conversation in multiple places and derailing this thread.

Any further posts that I think would be better over there, I'm going to just move to keep this thread on topic. But I'd be very grateful if you could save me the bother!

It’s nice seeing input from somebody who is poly.

I don’t have an issues with Halsin being Poly myself. It’s not my cup of tea, but I am not against it. I think the issue mostly stems from the fact that his character fears and avoids commitment, and there’s no way in game to help him past it. So in the end, the poor guy is just stuck with this unhealthy coping mechanism of running away from any form of commitment.

The current relationship feels more like friends with benefits IMO. At least that’s how I see it.

Also the drow stuff is not addressed in a very healthy manner either.

[/quote] this whole poly/sex driven side of him is out of character. It doesn't really fit with his personality.[/quote]

This.

I think we can have an additional quest where Tav and Halsin can have a deep conversation regarding their relationship near the end of Act 3 before the ending and help him overcome his fear of commitment.

In this way people who want to have a poly relationship with him can just avoid the quest and still have that poly relationship with him.

I don't see any fear of commitment with him. I think that's a bias from mono people here.

Monogamy is just not for him. That's a very poly story to be honest. A lot of us just find out we fall in love with multiple people, and trying to just be with one doesn't work out. We would feel unhappy.

And it's not about the sex. Halsin wants you to follow your heart. It can be with him, without him, or with him and someone else.

At the same time he's sex positive. Everything is fine as long as all partners consent. He also seems to stay sex positive after he endured things others (like Astarion) would have felt as assault.

It's not shallow just because he's wired differently.

Apparently an outlier. As mentioned, I am poly but didn't need to see it in a video game. Halsin feels like tacked on fan service.

And to the queer European who's name I forget in this thread, I'm also European, this has nothing to do with European culture, nor American culture. Larian isn't American but is definitely influenced by the US, and hookup culture is quite strong in many western countries, not just Europe.

I'll leave my general argument elsewhere but Halsin just feels wrong to me.