Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Daisy, the Absolute, and the Emperor [SPOILERS]

To put in simple terms what others have said.

We want the option to remove the Emperors influence over us ASAP. It removes power/heroic fantasy from the quest. (Or rework/rewrite Emperor story)

On another note, this has been discussed briefly, but I wonder if most people in this thread agree that Daisy should be a real person? Because the more I think about the "tadpole tempting you to stay by the river with it forever" the less it makes sense. The tadpole is already there eating your brain. Once 7 days are up you are changing regardless if you want to or not (assuming no Orpheus). Why does the tadpole need to tempt you? Would make sense if Daisy was for example a Dreamwalker that got enslaved to tempt you into joining the "bad side" or run into the "arms" of the Netherbrain.

Or something better that maybe someone else can brainstorm.

I for one, won't care about creating my guardian in subsequent playthroughs if the character I make just, does not exist.. In the current state of the game(act 3), I won't replay anyway so I guess there is that..

*Edit* Although the Dreamwalker part actually sounds pretty good, no?

I don't care about creating my Guardian right now, because it's just the Emperor in disguise. And the tadpole isn't your eating brain because of Netherese magic. It's the Elderbrain communicating with you, trying to subvert the Chosen.

That's basically what I do with the guardian... ignore the annoying thing. I'll never use a tadpole either, no matter how much Larian wants to push their "cool" Illithid powers system.

Makes no sense does it?

From an RP standpoint why would I? Ceremorphosis involves getting your brain devoured and your body destroyed, all sense of self is gone. Why the hells would you put more tadpoles in? No idea why this randomly does not apply to the Emperor when Orpheus says he can feel himself slipping hours after turning (to everyone else it is instant).

The whole voice-in-your-head plotline would probably have worked better if Tav wasn't aware from the jump that a Mind-Flayer had tadpoled him.


As it is, Tav is conditioned to distrust everything, while the voice does everything to justitfy that. Except that the game really seems to think we the players aren't motivated to do the same.

It would've been so neat to be able to switch "sides" right there, followed by getting to know your new savior, instead of that choice simply resulting in a game over.

That is the exact moment I lost interest in the story.

All nuance just converged into this single character which you are forced to follow. I even tried to kill him the first time. Just insta cut to Netherbrain (could not even use the Wyvern potion I saved for the entire game).

If you don't like the Emperor that is fine, but not everyone shares that mentality. For those of us who want to embrace this, we should be allowed to. Just because this isn't your cup of tea, doesn't mean you need to tell everyone they can't have tea.

You want player agency, that is valid. But don't deny other players their own agency in the process.

That said I think the Emperor is a very complex character, and that is what makes him interesting.

I 100% that he is evil, and self-serving. Good, that is what he is. This game is full of various evil play-through options, all of which are valid. Players get agency, be evil - good, whatever but the choice is yours.

it is also problematic for me specifically with reference to Lae'Zel as an origin character. IMO, it is very difficult to see Lae'zel choosing to side with a mind flayer over her own people, particularly when (at that point in the story) she may well have already renounced Vlaakith and know the truth about Orpheus. Add in the fact that the Emperor is not trustworthy when he tells you that he's the only thing keeping you from falling under the Absolute's control (he's telling the truth, apparently, but there's essentially no reason to believe him at that point) and I have some difficulty rationalizing any other canon ending for a Lae'zel origin run than having her kill the emperor there and then, and getting a game over. TBH, it's already noteworthy that she's willing to continue to follow the main character after that point - surely choosing to aid a MIND FLAYER in slaughtering the devoted bodyguards of the true prince of the Gith would be at least as objectionable to her as raiding the grove for is for Wyll or Karlach?

I think an important point about Lae'zel here, especially if you've done her quest specifically, is that she doesn't know that's orphans. You went into the prism and met the guardian, then when Voss tells you about the rebellion, he doesn't tell you about orpheus there, he says the person in the prism is vital to the effort, assuming that it's Orpheus, but he doesn't say explicitly, so we don't really know about Orpheus at this point.

Perhaps. I still find it hard to rationalize Lae'zel siding with a mind flayer against gith (who are trying to free another gith), even without express knowledge that said imprisoned Gith is Orpheus (I will grant that given her relatively low intelligence, it's believable for her not to have made the connection between what Voss said and the imprisoned gith in the prism.)

The whole scene where the Emperor reveals himself makes no sense even without LAe'zel.

With her it makes 0 sense. You are forced to slaughter githyanki and side with a mindflayer? Come on. So much for choice.

what kills me is that at the point the emperor reveals itself the player no longer has choices anymore. You go the way they tell you to or you die, transform, etc. I was without Lae'zel and was like, what? Then I reloaded and brought her and I was Like wtf?

Then Larian sort of rubs salt in the wound at the end,

Turns out all the yammering about choice and consequence and replayability was a lie. Or not properly tested..

You are railroaded into choose X squid or Gale nuke. You can save scum the last 2 hours and see everything. Really Larian?

That being said, the game is still wonderful in many regards, but I am going to have to put it away and hope the main story is touched up and act 3 FINISHED in a year or so. Because I can't sit through this Emperor arc again.

He is not as much complex as he is inconsistent and incoherent.

The guy can never decide if he is benevolent or is manipulating everyone. If he is human or a mindflayer. And just when you get a scene that provides some clarity he just acts like that scene never happens. Great.

As is the nature of a manipulator, they shift and change to meet their own ends.

I think the Emperor as an idea is great but I wish they had executed it better. He is a billion times more interesting than Daisy ever was imho. And is honestly one of the few elements of the story that still intrigues me after the game is over and makes me want to engage in speculation. Probably exactly because the execution is kinda meh and needs expanding/clarifying.
Orpheus should get as much screentime and backstory as he does and we should 10000% be able to free him before the very end of the game. Maybe we could obtain another item that can also break infernal chains if we do a quest for Vlaakith or Voss in act 2 and raphael's hammer becomes a last resort if we don't do that quest (nor the house of hope).
This said, since I've heard a lot of people say they don't like the Balduran twist (valid, by the way!) I just want to let the devs know that for me personally that was what really made me care for the character, even when it comes to the "romance" (quotation marks needed, since it is a bit of a meme and clumsily implemented) because it gives off the same fallen heroic figure vibes that I personally really enjoy in games like dark souls or bloodborne and which I was not expecting from BG3 at all.

"When the people think his name, or see his likeness, they must imagine a hero, not a horror" is a great line from Duke Ravengard and the only time the game allows us to discuss this outside of the Ansur quest if we ignore a few quips from the narrator her and there. It gave me big Knight Artorias / Laurence the First Vicar vibes.

Exactly. I'm playing my drow warlock as a manipulative and deceptive chaotic neutral. He's not overly cruel or evil, he's made BFF with Shadowheart, is on good terms with both Karlach and Astarion, too (Wyll sits in camp because he's boring, I hate Lae'zel so she got left for dead, and Gale left because I wouldnt' feed him my loot). He got Astarion and SH to go the "goodish" path too.

But he LIES. And his sole goal is to become a mindflayer and work with the Emperor. Does that mean he wants mass slaughter and death? Nope, actually not at all-- like the Emperor he'd rather pull strings from the shadows and have relative peace and stability so long as -he- has power and control over -his- life and wants, and the only way to do that is become as powerful as possible. Brain worms and allying with the Emperor allows that. Keeping his allies close and winning them over allows for that to be easier than genocide and making enemies everywhere he goes.