Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion [END SPOILS WARNING] Addressing Karlach (PLEASE PUT SPOILERS IN TAGS)

Okay folks, let's turn the heat down and accept that we are all entitled to our different perspectives without insulting or imputing bad motives to folk who disagree with us. And that applies to people arguing both sides of this question.

It's clearly a topic that can get people emotional and worked up, so let's all try to do our bit to keep the discussion friendly, constructive and welcoming of contrasting viewpoints. We can disagree and still keep things civil.

I understand you, I see you and I hear you, and I agree. I think we should all be polite and civil to each other even in disagreement. Yet queer ppl coexisting with self-described "anti-woke" people is no small feat. It's extremely difficult to have a polite disagreement with someone about video games when they proudly proclaim with their whole chest that they impolitely disagree with your very right to exist.

Anyways, I've set one person in this topic to ignore and won't be engaging with them anymore. I genuinely believe that to be the best solution to quiet things down. Hopefully the rest of the conversation can be more chill.

Why can't we have all the endings? Ignoring pragmatism, because not all of them make sense. Remember that guy that spent his entire adult life trying to ressurect a skeleton in his basement and failing, even though he had access to one of the most powerful books on Necromancy in existance? Remember Mayrina that made a deal with a hag to try and get her husband back? Remember what Ketheric Thorm had to do in order to bring his daughter back?

THAT is the world the game is set in. Why SHOULD your Tav succeed when saving Karlach isn't even Tavs main focus? Why can't one companion die because they refuse to do the one thing that will save them? Avernus was a choice, which Karlach refused in the original version, because "It would be worse than death". I would have been fine if the writers let her die with dignity after she saved Faerun and was brave enough to choose death over servitude, but now the fan-service is done and y'all can have an ending where Karlach lives and fits with the world that Larian built. What people are asking for now is the unreasonable and the unplausible.

@Nary a care: This game is a work of art, not therapy. Larian had a story to tell. Just like with everything else (including PnP D&D) - don't bring your personal trauma into other peoples lives uninvited. Karlach's story isn't yours. No one has the right to make demands of the writers.

Just saying I agree with all of this which is part of why I really feel ignored by Larian and like they don't really care about us as players.

I would completely agree with you, @Raz415, were it not for the myriad counterexamples present within the game itself.


These are, indeed, both part of the universe of D&D, but when taken as a whole, they are barely footnotes to the immensity that is the rest of it.

Bruh there's no fanfiction. All the add were already prepared in case of emergency. You can't fix all your Act 3 + add some dialogues in 2 weeks. The writers did an excellent job until Act 3 which is rushed.

No need to be that mad because people are arguing against the game with constructed arguments. That's a fact, the game is not finished and don't let the player have coherent ends. Karalch is part of the problem.

Plus this is based on DnD, and characters that the player meets see their destiny modified by the player's way of playing. That's why D&D is so appreciated. So it's completely stoobid to have one of the main characters see her story put on rails at the 2/3 of the story despite not so discrete invitation in Act 3 to find a solution.
It's even more stoobid when it concerns only one companion, and even even more when you have a real fix if Karlach is your main character.


That's not whining to expect a coherent and complete game from start to the end. No one ask them to have 17k ends. But if they want to do it anyway, they have to do it properly for the 17k ends without irregularity in the finish.


And I'm not even talking about how boring are all these "sad character" in every story, like all the tragic past HAVE to expect a tragic future and nothing more, but murderers, egoists, thieves, more or less all bad people can have a free redemption pass to the happiness. That's even more unjustified on a DnD game. You can kill Gods, doom entire races, but you can't fix a damn engine with the best blacksmiths and all the required furnitures ? Yes of course brillant story-telling and all, everyone will find this logical....

This. Very much this! I can't agree more. It's also incredibly upsetting that a lot of leads to fixing the infernal engine end up being nothing.

And yeah, it's not like I "want a happy ending for Karlach" just because I'm having an Annie Wilkes moment disagreeing with the writer's vision. I want her questline to be finished.

That's why this thread exists.

Seeing as that person is still going while I'm trying to disengage from arguing with them, I might not have many options aside from getting moderators involved...sigh...

Exactly

Feel I must apologise for this, my intent was to keep the reply as... indistinct as possible, but I failed to point it to the correct message and it got posted as general.

And yes, I gotta say; the fact that they give you an option to have a "good ending" if you PLAY as Karlach but not if you have her as a COMPANION is even more insulting and there's just no excuse for Larian not to have options for both.

This is a brilliant point. I think I genuinely repressed it due to its beyond-frustrating nature...

That's just another fact that proves that Karlach's story was rushed and needs to be finished I'm pretty sure Larian folks know about that, I only wish they will not abandon and finish it in due time.

This game is a choice based RPG, and Tav is not some prebuilt character like in The Witcher who has their own predetermined wants and goals. Tav is MY character, and I determine what his main focus is, not some arbitrary template that you have thrust upon them. Also, Larian didn't build this world, it is a world that they were given which has its own rules, which for the rest of the game Larian follows without issue. The fact in this one specific case they don't is not a good design choice. In fact it is so egregious I can only assume that it wasn't intentional and was not a design choice, but simply a matter of lack of time.

Finally, it's very disingenuous to attempt to imply that someone has mental health issues because they disagree with what you're saying.

I completely agree with you. These examples I gave were to illustrate just how desperate people are bring dead ones back. People would do anything to avoid death, even the rich and powerful. The LENGTHS people go to for staying alive is a big part of BG3 (and so it was in BG2 as well). Act 3 being subpar is just an unfortunate fact, but we have what we have for now. I'm certain Larian will make things better. The thing with Karlachs infernal engine is that it was crazy easy to fix it twice. It went about like this:

I mean... everything could have been done better. But you know what, this thread is living proof that even so Larian created a wonderful character that people love. I cried my eyes out during her dialogue after . What annoys me is that entitled people start accusing Larian of this and that while forgetting who brought them this game and this character in the first place. Yeah, by all means, give feedback. But making demands and biting the hand that gave an extra ending...

While I appreciate you standing up for me, I don't think there's any reasoning with this person. I'm just going to report them because it's starting to get uncomfortably close to harassment for my liking.

My biggest fear is abandoning it is exactly what they're going to do when it's clear the story needs more work.

I think there's some miscommunication here. No one is making demands of anyone, we are simply registering our displeasure about a current design choice. I'm very happy they cared enough to add an extra ending for Karlach, it speaks to how much they care about us and the game. I have FULL faith that Larian will be expanding on her ending in the future, but they can't fix it if they don't know that people care.

Well then I hope they know that I very much care and it's actually a very important issue for me. The more we look at it, the harder it is to justify the way it currently is now.