Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Build Discussion Wizard Class Implementation: Discussion & Feedback

Can't believe I read through this entire thread. Gave me a lot to think about when it comes to Sorcerers and Wizards for my next spellcaster playthrough. DumbleDorf knows his stuff.

Never did it accure to me to try dual wielding staffs as a spellcaster. That's insane, in a good way. Thanks for the tip.

I could care less for a spell scroll exploit, it doesn't affect my single player playthrough or multi-player team playthrough, at all. Why does anyone else care? You don't want someone else exploiting it? That's rather selfish. This isn't an MMO, you know. It's not like you are being challenged to duel or anything. Not that I care either way, I haven't even played a full Sorcerer on BG3 yet. Just wanted to spill my thoughts on the subject.

There are some pretty valid arguments here. I always felt melee combat is pretty ridiculous in damage for the low low price of free, not counting purchased gear.

The game is most certainly imbalanced towards spellcasters in general, the entire game really. However, I can't help but notice a huge lacking in spellcaster feats. A bunch of feats really, such as Weapon Focus, Exotic Weapon Profiency, Blind Fighting, Subvocal Casting, Snake Blood, etc. Metamagic definitely should have been there as a feat. From what it sounds like, Sorcerer is overpowered when compared to Wizard.

I wouldn't call Intelligence useless but certainly more Wizard spell memory and story driven, such as Arcana, History, Religion, and Intelligence Checks. I think it really depends on the player on what they wanna be good at in an RPG.

However, a Wizard may be able to learn any arcane spell but a Sorcerer can manipulate their magic by talking you to death while recovering there spells with a short rest and look good doing it.

Meanwhile, the ugly, nerdy wizard, the one nobody wants to hang with and can't cast two spells in one turn that does damage. Your companion only calls you when they need you for something because you're an artifact cookie monster with no real skills.

Wizard needs a little more elbow grease, you know what I mean? A little more umph, huzzah, and all that.

Also wanted to add I thought this thread was about Wizard Needs Upgrade, not Sorcerer Needs Downgrade.

I propose allowing Wizard and Warlock access to all Metamagics via level progression.

Here are some feat ideas I came up with. Dunno how others would feel about them.

Feats (Class availability will vary)

Edit: If none of this interests you, that's fine too. What I offer is ideas to making the game better.

If you have an ideas of what could make a wizard better than what it is now, I'd love to read about it. Doesn't even have to be added Feats.

I think Wizard is busted because of the spell scroll bug.

First of all, you shouldn't be able to scribe a spell for which you don't qualify and second of all you shouldn't be able to prepare a spell that doesn't fit any of your spell slots or goes above your spellcaster level.

And the way I see it the fix is fairly obvious, however, I will not comment on the simplicity of implementing something like this, because I am not an IT professional and don't wish to berate people who know how to code by claiming I can dream up better solutions than them.

Basically, you'd need to implement a warning message stating that you are about to scribe a spell you won't be able to prepare until you gain more levels in Wizard. That way you won't have to fix the actual bug which allows you to scribe anything with the Wizard tag on it.

Secondly you need a script to ensure that players don't prepare a spell for which they have no regular spell slot.

I don't use damage scrolls in combat, so I'm a bit unaware of the problem. Is it that you can use a scroll above your spell casting level? At least you cannot learn from a scroll which is above your spell level. That's enough for me.

For the rest I'm not sure wether Sorcerer or Wizard is better. Maybe still Sorcerer. Nevertheless I prefer Wizards, Evocation and Abjuration are just great in high difficulty settings.

I'm pretty sure that there was a time I wanted to summon an elemental from scroll and the game said my level was not high enough to cast it.
But that was a long time ago, maybe the patches since then have removed the restriction ?

No, just no.

Wizards are plenty powerful and if they were implemented properly then we wouldn't be having this discussion. I would like to see it fixed so that Spellcasters can only use spells on their spell class list - Period - and that you can't take 1 level of wizard and learn 5th level wizard spells as a 11th level cleric and then cast them with Cleric slots. That would balance the class perfectly fine.

The fact that a sorcerer can do 1 wizard/11 Sorc is what makes them overpowered. The fact that they can whip out a wizard scroll and just cast it makes them overpowered (or that ANY class can)

In EA all classes had BA hide, which is an ability specific to Rogues, Monks and Gloomstalkers. It's part of their kit that they earn. Thankfully they fixed it by release. This is the same thing.

I generally don't care what people do in their own games. if you want to mod the game however you like to make it easier for you, then go for it. However, the basis of the game, should be as close to RAW as it can be made within the confines of a CRPG. No one coming into the game should have to adjust it to be closer to how it should be anyway.

Additionally I almost exclusively play Multiplayer, since I run a multiplayer guild, and I don't feel it's my job to ask someone not to do something that exploits a CORE rule of the game.

If someone wants to do multiplayer with all their little exploits then the impetus should be on them to get 3 others willing to download and activate the necessary mods.

I'm not a DnD player but what Blackheifer said sounds very convincing. I see a scroll more as a replacement for a spellslot, not the whole spell. I don't know why anybody can use them and so diminish the relative worth of spellcasters. I also think that the multiclassing nonsense with the possibility to abuse the Wizard dip has to stop.

The only real problem of the Wizard class for me is that there are several very subpar subclasses. But that's a fate they share with other classes and subclasses and what is probably not to avoid in such a game with only a restricted number of working effects.

Thanks.

It's frustrating being 6 months in and Wizards are still not implemented correctly.

Last night I had to ask one of my fellow players not to try to take/use my 5th level conjure elemental scrolls. He was playing a fighter and he wanted to just conjure a 5th level elemental as an extra little companion to augment his already impressive damage.

So my argument is we don't need to buff Wizards, we just need to stop diminishing their capabilities.

Absolutely agree - the broken scroll system was evident as a problem from quite early in the EA, and its very depressing that it wasn't completely aligned with 5e and that one has to resort to mods to try and 'fix' things. I have always loved playing a wizard and I really felt the implemented magic scribing/scroll system diminished that hugely. I don't hold out much hope of it being fixed though - this 'feature' is now part of general play, and everyone is armed to the gills with potent scrolls that they can all use (and that's besides the MC issues with people dipping to get things they should not have access to under 5e, for obvious balance/uniqueness reason).

I don't have an issue with these exploits. I don't play multiplayer and in my own playthroughs I stick to the 5e rules regarding who can cast spells. I also severely limit the number of scrolls my casters can have on them at any time (5, replaceable at camp during long rest) and I also limit potions, elixirs and magical items. Honestly there is way too much loot in the game but hey to each their own.

Was this thread always stickied? Or is Larian taking the Wizard problem more seriously now?

I know they have had a lot on their plate so it would be really cool if they had time to return to issues like this and the Mod issues.

The scroll problem had been discussed since EA - and I never understood why it wasn't ever implemented correctly. Others had mentioned it.

We didn't see the Wizard multi class problem until the game released and so it feels like an offshoot of the same problem.

I'm pretty sure it wasn't when I posted yesterday. Also, that's a lot of views.

It's been stickied for a long time now, I'm sure. I'm not sure exactly how long, but it's been a while.

*

I'm also hoping they change this. Not so much because I'm a purist for anything 5e, but more because I think these issues make the game too easy. Allowing anyone to cast spells via scrolls doesn't work. It brings too much versatility and undermines class choices.

I feel much the same way about wizards scribing scrolls higher than their wizard casting level.

IIRC, I stickied this thread not long after the release. I’d been thinking of having stickied threads for each of the class implementations, as and when threads discussing them appeared. But suitable thread starter posts for other classes either didn’t materialise or else I missed them. (If there are good discussions of other classes that could/should be stickied, do PM me with links.)

Ok, that makes sense. I would say Wizard is the only class that has been so badly stolen from as to thoroughly diminish the class. We need to keep asking Larian for those abilities to be returned to the Wizard.

Wizard is my favorite class - and I thought it was Swen's as well, so I am mystified by this.