Well my first experience posting on reddit went as well as I thought it would go...gone in 60 seconds.
So I'll have this be the last post I make in quite some time because I'm taking a break from playing BG3.
Now I know there is a discussion goin on about Karlachs and Mintharas cut content (which I also hope gets fixed) on these forums whereas Shadoheart discussion has been taking place on some other forums and boards.(yeah) But I want to make this last post in hopes that Larian does something about it. (I think this is the first time where I actually got rattled by a video game lol - time to touch grass)
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-Shadowheart, romance, kinks and character ruination-
Isn't that a juicy title!
(My apologies if the formatting is off, my first time posting on reddit.)
Now that we got that out of the way, nice of you to join me. I'll try to keep this short but do bear (ugh) with me.
Spoilers obviously!
In all honesty I've been playing this game excessively for the past month and despite my enjoyment of it the only feeling I am left with is disappointment.
I've tried it all, I've explored it all and the deeper I delve into it the more this game falls apart for me.
From the poor performance (memory leaks, frame rate drops) to the bugs (quest breaking, items disappearing, flags not being properly set) and even the big bad cut content (companions talking about events that can't happen in the game, NPCs that are not finished showing up - Alfira/Dragonborn bard etc.) my main gripe with this game has always been its writing.
As always writing and what someone enjoys has always been subjective but despite me never expecting stellar writing from video games, Baldur's Gate 3 has lead me to the point where my suspension of disbelief just isn't working anymore.
From the Emperor to the Githyanki, from Karlach to Minsc every so often you can run into some scene that make no sense and would leave you baffled. But if I were to start writing about all of it this post would never end.
So I will stick with one thing that's been irritating me to no end. Maybe I'm just mad on the internet but the audacity of the writers to put this into the game has left me laughing.
I honestly don't know what the intent behind this was. Not seeing how it would be interpreted as? Trying to be stealth like and shove their fetish into the game at the expense of a character and the players enjoyment? Or strait up malice? But whatever it is I haven't seen anyone that has discovered it like it.
And what am I talking about, what am I making so dramatic as to pull you in so you would read my post you ask. Well romance of course, Shadowhearts to be more precise.
When I play RPGs I like to role play as different characters and experience the world through their eyes and one of those character (3rd playthrough) ended up romancing Shadowheart.
From her ties to the main story to her romance everything seemed nice but unfortunately all of that fell apart because of one little companion banter popping up.
Shadowhearts story is one of self discovery and choosing how to deal with her trauma. Kidnapped from her parents at the young age the only thing she has know was abuse. Forty years of her life have been in the embrace of a jealous and uncaring goddess that she so desperately tries to impress. But despite her ties to Shar throughout her story you will find out that there is more to her than meets the eye.
If you decide to go through her romance you will experience something sweet. From heartbreak to finding love, a true fairytale romance if you want to call it that. (At least the reject Shar route) Obviously there was an idea when it came to this character and they leaned into it heavily. And that is exactly what everyone that blasted through the main romance with her ended up getting.
But underneath that sickly sweet romance hides something else. One writers poorly written fan-fiction that is entirely divorced from her story and if you accidently stumble upon it (damn youtube) you will realize how it ruins her character.
What do I speak of? Halsin, polyamory and cheating. I won't go into the whole zoo and bear thing that Larian was more than willing to brag about but even he ended up being a shallow character because of the overreliance on kink and not enough development.
If you went through Shadohearts entire story and romance you would know that she is not really keen on sharing and even if the opportunity arises for something spicier she wants the focus to be on her and the main character. And yet this is the party banter that shows up after finishing her storyline, unprompted without ever having a conversation about it or pursuing both she flirts with another companion after professing her love to the MC.
Maybe its a bug that came from all of the flags being broken and that banter was meant for a MC that is pursuing both, maybe. But seeing what other little things show up after finishing her romance lead me to think otherwise. The famous drow twins scene that you admittedly need to go out of your way to initiate still leaves a bitter taste behind, implying that these thoughts are there even if you don't go through with it.
Despite talking about love and spending the rest of her life with the romanced MC.
Despite being portrayed as someone that is opposed and upset with the idea of opening her relationship and sharing, (which by the way happens with every single companion in the game and even if you don't romance her she tells Wyll when he flirts with her that she will not play a second fiddle to anyone).
She straight up goes into thirst mode for him to the point where the MC is being ignored, an the funniest thig about this whole situation isn't even the fact that both Shadoheart and Halsin share the same writer is that if you reject Halsin, Shadowheart disaproves.
I'm sorry but I can't look at this scene and the sharing/poly conversation where Shadowheart is down to opening the relationship with Halsin (again despite rejecting everyone else and talking about not wanting to share and be your spare lover) as nothing more than some writers self insert/fetish. Halsin is obviously a writers pet and for some reason characters that were established a certain way should change so he can get the fan-fiction that he wants. (Even Astarion that doesn't feel comfortable with sharing is okay with Halsin)
Even better is the fact that the drow and poly scenes are divorced from the rest of these companions stories to the point that the game still treats it as if it never happened. So it does feel shoved in.
This is a perfect example of one writers idea ignoring the focus of any video game and who or what is meant to be the focus. (the player)
Even if someone wants to bring up the Mizora scene and Shadowhearts past about her being mind wiped every week and encouraged to have fleeting relationships/casual sex with other acolytes (which is another discussion about abuse and tricking an amnesiac) she still isn't into sharing/open relationships and is mad you didn't ask. Open relationships/poly =/= hook ups.
So no I don't want to go through a whole game where a character is portrayed one way but as soon as you finish their story suddenly the writers cuck fetish rears its head and contradicts everything the character had said up to that point.
If they really wanted that option they had the perfect opportunity with the dark Shadowheart (embrace Shar). Because at least in that version it makes sense seeing how Shadowheart fully commits to Shar and Sharan way of life, no commitments/quick pleasurers of the flesh and cheating.
And its not even a Shadowheart thing, if it was any other companion I would have the same reaction. Because believe it or not I don't like it, like I don't like many other things in this game that make no sense. Like that Astarions ending scene being played up for laughs. Yeah he's burning in the sun, way to ruin the moment.
How would people feel if Alistair after romancing him went onto flirt with Morrigan, disapproving if you don't allow him to have a threesome with her and talk about how he really wanted her and he's been thirsting/dreaming about her while ignoring the MC. I don't think many people would've been happy with that.
What about Judy from Cyberpunk having a quick phone call at the end of her romance where she tells Maiko how she really wants her.
Regardless of you gender, race or sexual orientation I would say that the majority of people playing videogames are not looking for a surprise cuck option but a power fantasy (at least in some shape or form).
If you wanted to write a character that focuses on cheating and betrayal or even a properly written poly relationship why not do it? Why opt for trickery and hide it. People had no issues with Isabela from Dragon Age 2 because there were no hidden scenes and you knew what you were getting with her.
Either way I'm honestly getting tired of it and just want to enjoy video games. Hope they remedy that shit alongside other problems this game has when the Definitive Edition comes.
Thanks for reading my rant I guess
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And with that, I'm out. Wish you guys all the best and hope all those story/character problems get fixed soon and if not soon when the Definitive Edition comes.
Fully agree with all you wrote, from the bugs to the fetish part.
Halsin and Astarion are the 'star' companions from Larian's perspective. It was no coincidence that it was Halsin and Astarion in the ridiculous bear scene.
As more people finish the game, more posts are appearing expressing disappointment with endings or confusion with the story. This game is nowhere near as good as the hype claims.
The graphics are okay but not great - I use reshader which blows the vanilla graphics out of the water. Character Creation is pretty basic - 2 or 3 body shapes, less than a dozen heads, no sliders for anything. Lack of a decent number of companions. Poor writing with too many modern phrases. Far too many cutscenes - if I want 'cinematics' I'll go to the cinema. Overly complicated, rubbish story which is mostly a vehicle to allow the name-dropping of every deity in the Faerun pantheon and walk-on parts for NPCs from the original BG games - Jaheira, Minsc, Volo, Elminster, etc.
Okay, first, let me go into Avocatus Diaboli mode. This sort of thing actually happened in Bg2, as well. If you were Romancing Aerie and brought Haer Dalis along, he'd steal your girl and there was nothing you could do about it.
Alright, now for the real answer.
It has to do with.. 'Modern writing', and 'the message'. It's so on the nose, and so apparant that it actually breaks the fourth wall, for me. All the girls on the team are emasculated, capable, take matters into their own hands and all their troubles are created by external forces, which they face head on. No problem there, if it weren't for the fact that all the guys on the team are effeminate, whiney, selfish and irresponsible and couldn't make a decent decision if they tried. And I'll put Halsin as the top contender for these traits.
Of course, everyone is gay if you want them to be, but also if you don't want them to be - Wyll is going to woo you with his ballet moves regardless. Astarion will call you darling the entire campaign, and not once do you get to address that. Gale, who previously dated the Goddess of Magic, suddenly declares he's in love with my sweaty, murderous Dwarven Berserker, back hair and all, who actively ignores his longwinded conversations and refused his quest constantly.
Not so long ago, I mentioned Mass Effect on these forums, saying how that was way too easy with the romances. IN the last Panel from Hell, they were really proud of how they did the romances, how it wasn't just 'do their quest and bang'
But it's WORSE than that. At least in Mass Effect, there were the obvious flirt options to initiate a romance line. Not here. Everyone wants you and will come for you. There'not even a do-their-quest. It's talk to them, and say either yes or no, and for most of what I've seen, that yes goes to sex RIGHT from there. And.. it stays there, too. UNtil you reach the epilogue, it hardly comes up again.
And the worst part is, you better pick one, too - because everyone will be gunning for you if you don't. Even Withers complains if you don't. HE even complains to the NPC's they don't.
It's weird how you're navigating romantic advances from characters like Gale or Wyll before establishing a simple friendship. Having to reject Wyll after he did his gay dance broke my heart, he looked so sad! And yeah, for some reason I had to reload my save after Gale's gay sex scene, because it locks you out of the Shadowheart scene, but she permits you doing bestiality with Halsin.
The Emperor's gay sex scene is seemingly trivial, you get a steam achievement as a sort of badge of shame, that's it.
It's weird how you're navigating romantic advances from characters like Gale or Wyll before establishing a simple friendship. Having to reject Wyll after he did his gay dance broke my heart, he looked so sad! And yeah, for some reason I had to reload my save after Gale's gay sex scene, because it locks you out of the Shadowheart scene, but she permits you doing bestiality with Halsin.
The Emperor's gay sex scene is seemingly trivial, you get a steam achievement as a sort of badge of shame, that's it.
Man you really told Wyll:
Also, I don't think that the Emperor scene technically counts as homosexual or heterosexual either way. While the original host may have been male, technically the Emperor is the final form of a sexless Illithid tadpole. Omeluum could have been a woman at some point and we'd still refer to him as a he just out of convenience I suppose. But neither Emperor or Omeluum have sexes or genders, as the species reproduces asexually.
Remember the human (This is a forum for a video game):
BG3 romances operate in a state similar to the Schrödinger's Cat thought experiment. All things are possible until states are revealed.
So in my first play through Shadowheart was a faithful monogamous true love.
But, if you ignore the signs and have Halsin in the party, he's going to influence outcomes according to his well publicized sexual behaviour. If you don't want that influence seeping in, you'll need to omit him from the party and/or don't converse with him.
And frankly, for a faster play through, best to limit party members. In future play throughs I'm not going to do whole team anymore.
BG3 romances operate in a state similar to the Schrödinger's Cat thought experiment. All things are possible until states are revealed.
So in my first play through Shadowheart was a faithful monogamous true love.
But, if you ignore the signs and have Halsin in the party, he's going to influence outcomes according to his well publicized sexual behaviour. If you don't want that influence seeping in, you'll need to omit him from the party and/or don't converse with him.
And frankly, for a faster play through, best to limit party members. In future play throughs I'm not going to do whole team anymore.
I like to do whole team, but Halsin brings nothing to the table that Jaheira can't too and I liek her more, so he stays mostly in camp.
"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."
Also, I don't think that the Emperor scene technically counts as homosexual or heterosexual either way. While the original host may have been male, technically the Emperor is the final form of a sexless Illithid tadpole. Omeluum could have been a woman at some point and we'd still refer to him as a he just out of convenience I suppose. But neither Emperor or Omeluum have sexes or genders, as the species reproduces asexually.
It just seems like the culmination of ''Baldur's Gay'' to me that even this cthulu looking squid dude starts making romantic advances towards you. I understand your point about the Emperor being the final form of a sexless Illithid tadpole and that Omeluum might not have a specific gender due to their asexual reproduction. However, what I'm curious about is why would have romantic interest at all then, they would be asexual aromantic.
Originally Posted by fylimar
I like to do whole team, but Halsin brings nothing to the table that Jaheira can't too and I liek her more, so he stays mostly in camp.
I send him to camp when I reached the city and he immediately
got kidnapped by Orin. Which was nice, because I don't think he has anything to do in Act 3 and Jaheira already fills the druid slot in your party.
BG3 romances operate in a state similar to the Schrödinger's Cat thought experiment. All things are possible until states are revealed.
So in my first play through Shadowheart was a faithful monogamous true love.
But, if you ignore the signs and have Halsin in the party, he's going to influence outcomes according to his well publicized sexual behaviour. If you don't want that influence seeping in, you'll need to omit him from the party and/or don't converse with him.
And frankly, for a faster play through, best to limit party members. In future play throughs I'm not going to do whole team anymore.
Firstly, that supports my point about Halsin (and Astarion) being the star companions. Secondly, it is bad writing or writing to support a particular agenda if an NPC is the driver and not the PC. Thirdly, Knowing it is better to leave out Halsin is due to hindsight.
Schrödinger's Cat? It more like Hobson's choice. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Hobson's%20choice
I find it interesting that there are a lot fewer posts about Astarion than Halsin or several other NPCs.
I killed Astarion at the start when he pulled a knife on me. I rescued Haslin in the goblin camp mainly due to the Grove quest and the 'find the Nightsong' quest. I never had any intention of having him my party and didn't want him in my camp.
Listening to Swen's description of development, he delegates down to lowest level of authority to complete tasks, which he play tests. So we're encountering all styles of story throughout the game.
Can you elaborate a bit more on Halsin and Astarion being star companions? I don't quite get it. In my play throughs they weren't used much, saw little development and had minor endings.
I think I saw Halsin's ability scores and thought heck no, he needs higher strength (same as Minsc!). I had him do a few shadowcurse lands outings, but core companions already wore tailored gear and had developed party tactics, Halsin wasn't optimized nor synergised.
Astarion? Man, my devotion paladin was never really able to get his attitude very high, he'd always disapprove. Put him in camp whenever possible rather than suffer naggings.
Yeah, Hobson's choice for some companions who don't evolve much. For Minsc or Halsin you can take 'em or leave 'em. I guess I was thinking more Lae'zel and Shadowheart.
Talk about NPC who steal thunder, I've got a bone to pick with Dame Aylin
overdoing the paladin schtick. Talks in third person, has natural flight and if you take her words literally, which given her undying nature seems believable*, is an actual daughter of Selune. And what's with all the Jesus posing? (Withers too!)
Wow. The writer must have thought 'I'll show those paladin players what's what.' It's borderline DMPC antics to upstage the MC paladin. Nevermind she's only Fire elemental quality in actual fights.
*In a world with wizards and soul cages, this trait is a total liability. Given she's ageless, she'll be targeted endlessly and end up spending hundreds more years entrapped.
I honestly don't see Astarion and Halsin as star companions too. I would like an explanation too, if that's ok. I mean, Astarion is a fan favourite, granted. And he has a bit more involvment with the story, but Halsin is just boring. He fizzles out after act 2 and has only the polyarmoury going for him. I tried talking to him a few times, took him with me on a few occasions to see, if there is a quest popping up, but no, he jsut hits on my girl. So I parked him back at his tent and did go back to the companions, that actually have stories to tell. I mean, yeah, he became infamous because of THAT scene, but that's about it. I think, a star companion would be a bit more in the middle of things.
"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."
It's weird how you're navigating romantic advances from characters like Gale or Wyll before establishing a simple friendship. Having to reject Wyll after he did his gay dance broke my heart, he looked so sad! And yeah, for some reason I had to reload my save after Gale's gay sex scene, because it locks you out of the Shadowheart scene, but she permits you doing bestiality with Halsin.
The Emperor's gay sex scene is seemingly trivial, you get a steam achievement as a sort of badge of shame, that's it.
'' Gay dance '' rofl. But yeah I really didn't like how I felt like I couldn't just have nice '' friends '' moments with Wyll and Gale in particular. It felt like the game was reaaaally trying to push me into romantic situations with them when I just wanted to be friends with them. Especially since I played a Warlock and I considered them my '' magic buddies '', I also sympathized with Wyll and wanted to help him with the Mizora situation.
Ngl in regards to the bear sex thing. I do think some people were mad about it in bad faith and were just trying to cause political drama crap because apparently this is going to be a thing with every game now. Same with people being upset about '' beauty mods '' and trying to gender and politicize it when the same mods exist for both and all the characters ( did people only just now find out about mods??? ). But on the other hand it was really weird to see so many people unironically trying to justify it as '' not beastiality '' by saying '' well it's a person in bear form, not an actual bear ''. Okay... So by that logic if he turned into a minor instead that'd be okay because '' he's an adult actually ''? Like cmon... It is what it is, and yes it is weird and I do think it's understandable why a lot of people would get upset and feel offended about it.
Listening to Swen's description of development, he delegates down to lowest level of authority to complete tasks, which he play tests. So we're encountering all styles of story throughout the game.
Can you elaborate a bit more on Halsin and Astarion being star companions? I don't quite get it. In my play throughs they weren't used much, saw little development and had minor endings.
I think I saw Halsin's ability scores and thought heck no, he needs higher strength (same as Minsc!). I had him do a few shadowcurse lands outings, but core companions already wore tailored gear and had developed party tactics, Halsin wasn't optimized nor synergised.
Astarion? Man, my devotion paladin was never really able to get his attitude very high, he'd always disapprove. Put him in camp whenever possible rather than suffer naggings.
Yeah, Hobson's choice for some companions who don't evolve much. For Minsc or Halsin you can take 'em or leave 'em. I guess I was thinking more Lae'zel and Shadowheart.
Talk about NPC who steal thunder, I've got a bone to pick with Dame Aylin
overdoing the paladin schtick. Talks in third person, has natural flight and if you take her words literally, which given her undying nature seems believable*, is an actual daughter of Selune. And what's with all the Jesus posing? (Withers too!)
Wow. The writer must have thought 'I'll show those paladin players what's what.' It's borderline DMPC antics to upstage the MC paladin. Nevermind she's only Fire elemental quality in actual fights.
*In a world with wizards and soul cages, this trait is a total liability. Given she's ageless, she'll be targeted endlessly and end up spending hundreds more years entrapped.
She *is* a daughter of Selune. She's aasimar, meaning has a celestial in the parentage. Think of her as kinda a Jesus Christ thing. Instead of the son of God, she's the daughter of the Moonmaiden.
The Dame MIGHT be exaggerating. In 5E, Aasimar are a PC race notable for being the equal opposites of Tieflings, and having radiant and necrotic resistance.
Also, I don't think that the Emperor scene technically counts as homosexual or heterosexual either way. While the original host may have been male, technically the Emperor is the final form of a sexless Illithid tadpole. Omeluum could have been a woman at some point and we'd still refer to him as a he just out of convenience I suppose. But neither Emperor or Omeluum have sexes or genders, as the species reproduces asexually.
The Dame MIGHT be exaggerating. In 5E, Aasimar are a PC race notable for being the equal opposites of Tieflings, and having radiant and necrotic resistance.
Two resists? Little busted.
Lore in most games I've played with aasimar in them, they're a rare product of humans, and the insinuation is that a celestial or God touched the child somehow, in an allusion to the Immaculate Conception.
I haven't looked at 5e, but hell, Pathfinder 1e has at least half a dozen types of tiefling and aasimar, for each type of celestial or abyssal that made it.
Regardless, if her stat block isnt "correct", it's on purpose.
Not as busted as it looks. Radiant resistance doesn't protect you from much except a couple cleric spells and opposing Paladin Smites. Necrotic resistance is doing most of the heavy lifting.
Also, as the equal opposites of Tieflings, Aasimar have frequently been Human mates with Celestial->Half Celestial mates with human->Aasimar, Aasimar remains in the bloodline for several generations, not clearly defined.
Can you elaborate a bit more on Halsin and Astarion being star companions? I don't quite get it. In my play throughs they weren't used much, saw little development and had minor endings.
Originally Posted by fylimar
I honestly don't see Astarion and Halsin as star companions too. I would like an explanation too, if that's ok.
I meant it in the sense of they were the stars of the companions - featured most in publicity and fan worship rather than in game, story-wise. Pre-release Astarion was probably the most talked about companion yet now he is hardly mentioned. Halsin was talked about less (will he be the missing origin character and all that) but now he only features on the forum because his Act 1 and Act 2 quests bork.
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In the good old days aasimar used to be considered a level higher for XP needed to level up due to the racial bonus they got. The +2 CHA +2 STR (?) and the rest. They were the paladin race par excellence. Tieflings were +2 DEX and +2 INT for your rogue.
I honestly don't see Astarion and Halsin as star companions too. I would like an explanation too, if that's ok.
I meant it in the sense of they were the stars of the companions - featured most in publicity and fan worship rather than in game, story-wise. Pre-release Astarion was probably the most talked about companion yet now he is hardly mentioned. Halsin was talked about less (will he be the missing origin character and all that) but now he only features on the forum because his Act 1 and Act 2 quests bork.
Ah, ok, I understand, what you mean. I do agree about Astarion, I mean, he was made to draw in the not so typical DnD crowd, so he was featured widely. I don't really agree about Halsin - apart from the bear memes everywhere, I don't see him often featured outside of talks in this or other BG3 related forums/reddits. And I'm pretty sure, most people remember 'the game has bear sex', but not, who the bear is. You often have to explain, that the 'bear' is actually an elven man.
Last edited by fylimar; 06/09/2307:26 PM.
"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."
I honestly don't see Astarion and Halsin as star companions too. I would like an explanation too, if that's ok.
I meant it in the sense of they were the stars of the companions - featured most in publicity and fan worship rather than in game, story-wise. Pre-release Astarion was probably the most talked about companion yet now he is hardly mentioned. Halsin was talked about less (will he be the missing origin character and all that) but now he only features on the forum because his Act 1 and Act 2 quests bork.
Ah, ok, I understand, what you mean. I do agree about Astarion, I mean, he was made to draw in the not so typical DnD crowd, so he was featured widely. I don't really agree about Halsin - apart from the bear memes everywhere, I don't see him often featured outside of talks in this or other BG3 related forums/reddits. And I'm pretty sure, most people remember 'the game has bear sex', but not, who the bear is. You often have to explain, that the 'bear' is actually an elven man.
Before the whole bear thing, he had the "Daddy Halsin" moniker going around.
I don't know *that*, but I do know that when they said NPC's couldn't date each other, they were wrong. My non-player Astarion totally banged non-player Shadowheart at Tieflingfest 2023.
Okay, first, let me go into Avocatus Diaboli mode. This sort of thing actually happened in Bg2, as well. If you were Romancing Aerie and brought Haer Dalis along, he'd steal your girl and there was nothing you could do about it.
I'm glad you brought up the whole Aerie and Haer thing but from what I remember Aerie turns down Haer (and he backs down) if you progressed far enough down her romance route.
Even if that wasn't the case there is a difference between a character that was written with a whole storyline revolving around a love triangle and a romance that was written in your classical BioWare way only for the cuck shit to pop up out of nowhere and after finishing the storyline/contradicting what was established.
But hey, I guess one writers fan-fic overrides the rest of the game I guess.
As for the rest of your post, I did notice the overreliance on modern politics/views or how you call it the 'message' to write stories in recent games but for the most part its been tolerable (for me at lest) it just seems I've reached my limit. Ruining a character for a quick cuck fantasy kinda soured it for me.
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I wasn't thinking of posting again but the funnies thing happened this week. One of my friends finished the game and he was one of those people that were obsessed with Halsin during the EA and the whole daddy thing (He didn't like the Panel from Hell with the bear tho). To paraphrase 'I'm so happy that there is a gay romance that isn't a twink' but even now after having our conversation I cant not laugh at the whole situation.
He was not happy with the character and how the whole story turned out. We talked about the issues with the writing and the problems we had, Orpheus/Emperor etc. but the most fun shit talking we had was around the zoophile.
Onto the main course. I think we both came to the same conclusion, him focusing on Halsin and me on Halsins influence on other characters. (mainly Shadowheart but also Astarion)
Halsin is the OC Do Not Steal of some early 2000 tumblr porn fan fiction:
Poorly written - check
Shallow/no development - check
Super unique (bulky elf with body hair unlike the rest of the elven race) - check
Super talented and everyone praises him (he's the greatest healer despite being incompetent at everything he does throughout the story) - check
Sex god/sex pest (he wants to sleep with everything that walks - he was so good in bed that every drow in the world knows about him) - check
Characters in a story acting out of character for him/story bending over to accommodate him (both Shadowheart and Astarion) - check
Some fucked up fetish that could be a reflection of the writer (cuck/zoophilia) - check
We were both laughing so much at this, I still cant believe that this version of him made it into the game over some other datamined ones. But people thirstin for him (my friend included) got what they wanted, not really XD ( I don't think anyone interested in Halsin wanted him like this)
Just remove his influence from Astarions/Shadohearts story and do a semi rewrite of his character and for the love of good stop it with the zoo shit.
ENOUGH WITH THE BEAR!
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Originally Posted by fylimar
I like to do whole team, but Halsin brings nothing to the table that Jaheira can't too and I liek her more, so he stays mostly in camp.
If given the choice would you rather have a...lets say a halfling bard companion?
Originally Posted by Angelalex242
The Dame MIGHT be exaggerating. In 5E, Aasimar are a PC race notable for being the equal opposites of Tieflings, and having radiant and necrotic resistance.
Oh god, the Aasimars. I still remember my first dip into the world of DnD. I was still a small kid and Neverwinter Nights 2 came out.
My first DnD character was an Aasimar paladin (I know so original lol). Was really disappointed to hear that they would not be playable since I've always saw them as a mirror race to Tieflings.
Originally Posted by rodeolifant
I don't know *that*, but I do know that when they said NPC's couldn't date each other, they were wrong. My non-player Astarion totally banged non-player Shadowheart at Tieflingfest 2023.
That's another weird thing that just seems like an oversite or whatever it is (Larians need for companions to also be player characters. Didn't like it in OS2 don't like it in BG3).
During the Tiefling party you can control your companions as if they were the MC. So unlike your usual everyday adventuring where if you decided to initiate a convo between companions nothing will happen and it will immediately switch the player character but for that party/scene that lock/restriction is gone, weird. (it treats it as if the companion was the MC you were playing and is never brought up again)
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The more I look at it the more it becomes clear that the whole spiel larian gave about treating the companion interaction/romances and overall writing more maturely was just PR and nothing else. But it seems they did hit their target audience, I am so sorry for using this word but coomers. (or maybe not, there has been a lot of complaining about overly sexual companions)
Aylin's maybe not a literal daughter. An Aasimar is descended from a celestial, not a god - that'd make her something more.
Nah, she's probably a descendent of one of Selune's angels and calls Selune 'mother' figuratively, although it comes across like she's drunk the koolaid and actually believes she's her mum. I mean, once you start referring to yourself in 3rd person, your ego is controlling you.
Though if Selune were the actual mother, she'd be a pretty terrible one leaving her daughter in such a state for so long.
(And shouldn't druids have a big issue with her running around Faerun? She's clearly outside the natural order. Maybe Kethric was actually in his right mind to object to his daughter's union.)
As for Jesus posing, I've seen plenty of Catholic depictions in my time. BG3 leans heavily into church imagery with Aylin and Withers. Sorry, but it comes across as cliche.
Okay, first, let me go into Avocatus Diaboli mode. This sort of thing actually happened in Bg2, as well. If you were Romancing Aerie and brought Haer Dalis along, he'd steal your girl and there was nothing you could do about it.
I'm glad you brought up the whole Aerie and Haer thing but from what I remember Aerie turns down Haer (and he backs down) if you progressed far enough down her romance route.
Even if that wasn't the case there is a difference between a character that was written with a whole storyline revolving around a love triangle and a romance that was written in your classical BioWare way only for the cuck shit to pop up out of nowhere and after finishing the storyline/contradicting what was established.
But hey, I guess one writers fan-fic overrides the rest of the game I guess.
As for the rest of your post, I did notice the overreliance on modern politics/views or how you call it the 'message' to write stories in recent games but for the most part its been tolerable (for me at lest) it just seems I've reached my limit. Ruining a character for a quick cuck fantasy kinda soured it for me.
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I wasn't thinking of posting again but the funnies thing happened this week. One of my friends finished the game and he was one of those people that were obsessed with Halsin during the EA and the whole daddy thing (He didn't like the Panel from Hell with the bear tho). To paraphrase 'I'm so happy that there is a gay romance that isn't a twink' but even now after having our conversation I cant not laugh at the whole situation.
He was not happy with the character and how the whole story turned out. We talked about the issues with the writing and the problems we had, Orpheus/Emperor etc. but the most fun shit talking we had was around the zoophile.
Onto the main course. I think we both came to the same conclusion, him focusing on Halsin and me on Halsins influence on other characters. (mainly Shadowheart but also Astarion)
Halsin is the OC Do Not Steal of some early 2000 tumblr porn fan fiction:
Poorly written - check
Shallow/no development - check
Super unique (bulky elf with body hair unlike the rest of the elven race) - check
Super talented and everyone praises him (he's the greatest healer despite being incompetent at everything he does throughout the story) - check
Sex god/sex pest (he wants to sleep with everything that walks - he was so good in bed that every drow in the world knows about him) - check
Characters in a story acting out of character for him/story bending over to accommodate him (both Shadowheart and Astarion) - check
Some fucked up fetish that could be a reflection of the writer (cuck/zoophilia) - check
We were both laughing so much at this, I still cant believe that this version of him made it into the game over some other datamined ones. But people thirstin for him (my friend included) got what they wanted, not really XD ( I don't think anyone interested in Halsin wanted him like this)
Just remove his influence from Astarions/Shadohearts story and do a semi rewrite of his character and for the love of good stop it with the zoo shit.
ENOUGH WITH THE BEAR!
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Originally Posted by fylimar
I like to do whole team, but Halsin brings nothing to the table that Jaheira can't too and I liek her more, so he stays mostly in camp.
If given the choice would you rather have a...lets say a halfling bard companion?
Well, you've got me there . Yes, I vastly would have preferred Helia over Halsin or in fact any character, that didn't change personality completely, if you recruit them, but yeah, mostly Helia. I'm not familiar with early 2000 tumblr porn fanfic and I never even talked to those drow ( which I assume triggers that he tells you about his years as a drow sex slave?), but yeah, I can't deny, that he is not well written and that fans, who wanted him as a companion, like your friend, can't really be satisfied with what they got. I don't think I'll use him in the future, he is bland and has really only the sex thing going for him.
"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."
I mean, once you start referring to yourself in 3rd person, your ego is controlling you.
Wyll disapproves.
You can take him down a peg or three in dialogue. It would've been nice to do the same with Aylin, or at least not admit her into camp without resorting to homicidal murder.
I actually agree with all the points you're making but you're never going to get people to agree with you or get anything changed with inane incel wording you use. I think her willingness to have threesomes/foursomes comes completely out of left field and contradictory to everything in her romance. She won't sleep with you act 3 seemingly because you need to build trust with her but suddenly she's willing to do group sex? It makes zero sense whatsoever. The guy who wrote Shadowheart also wrote Halsin so it leads me to believe he's just a self-insert for him and that's why she's so willing to do. And because of the fact that Halsin reads as a self-insert I don't consider anything involving the two of them to be part of Shadowheart's character. It's just weird shit this guy put in the game for himself which is a shame writer's shouldn't do that.
I actually agree with all the points you're making but you're never going to get people to agree with you or get anything changed with inane incel wording you use. I think her willingness to have threesomes/foursomes comes completely out of left field and contradictory to everything in her romance. She won't sleep with you act 3 seemingly because you need to build trust with her but suddenly she's willing to do group sex? It makes zero sense whatsoever. The guy who wrote Shadowheart also wrote Halsin so it leads me to believe he's just a self-insert for him and that's why she's so willing to do. And because of the fact that Halsin reads as a self-insert I don't consider anything involving the two of them to be part of Shadowheart's character. It's just weird shit this guy put in the game for himself which is a shame writer's shouldn't do that.
Ah the internets favorite insult strikes again. Despite my 'incel' writing as you have dubbed it the reality will not change, will it? Cuck, zoophile, degenerate are all words with meaning and words that simply apply to the situation at hand. Sure I could've used a more flowery language but the description I gave was more than enough for you and others to agree with.
I don't see why I should be more diplomatic in my wording when dealing with people who would ruin characters with a disgusting fetish that is zoophilia. (It is a form of degeneracy and no tip-toeing around it will change that) As for the dreaded cuck word? Is it not cucking for a partner (in this case companion) to sleep and lust after another while in a established relationship? (Even more malicious is to write all of that after that characters story was already finished/established)
In all honesty I won't hold my breath when it comes to these changes being made, despite the writers talent that he has show throughout Shadowhearts story he is still catering to certain type of audience. Would it be nice? Sure, but at the end of the day it is only a game.
Don't take this response as me being snappy because I don't mean it that way. Maybe my wording isn't the best suited for changing minds or garnering support but if you think you are able to convey the situation any better and what you would like to see changed feel to free to do so otherwise the cuck romance will stay as it is.
I actually agree with all the points you're making but you're never going to get people to agree with you or get anything changed with inane incel wording you use. I think her willingness to have threesomes/foursomes comes completely out of left field and contradictory to everything in her romance. She won't sleep with you act 3 seemingly because you need to build trust with her but suddenly she's willing to do group sex? It makes zero sense whatsoever. The guy who wrote Shadowheart also wrote Halsin so it leads me to believe he's just a self-insert for him and that's why she's so willing to do. And because of the fact that Halsin reads as a self-insert I don't consider anything involving the two of them to be part of Shadowheart's character. It's just weird shit this guy put in the game for himself which is a shame writer's shouldn't do that.
Ah the internets favorite insult strikes again. Despite my 'incel' writing as you have dubbed it the reality will not change, will it? Cuck, zoophile, degenerate are all words with meaning and words that simply apply to the situation at hand. Sure I could've used a more flowery language but the description I gave was more than enough for you and others to agree with.
I don't see why I should be more diplomatic in my wording when dealing with people who would ruin characters with a disgusting fetish that is zoophilia. (It is a form of degeneracy and no tip-toeing around it will change that) As for the dreaded cuck word? Is it not cucking for a partner (in this case companion) to sleep and lust after another while in a established relationship? (Even more malicious is to write all of that after that characters story was already finished/established)
In all honesty I won't hold my breath when it comes to these changes being made, despite the writers talent that he has show throughout Shadowhearts story he is still catering to certain type of audience. Would it be nice? Sure, but at the end of the day it is only a game.
Don't take this response as me being snappy because I don't mean it that way. Maybe my wording isn't the best suited for changing minds or garnering support but if you think you are able to convey the situation any better and what you would like to see changed feel to free to do so otherwise the cuck romance will stay as it is.
Well I mean I just don't care that much to do a write up like this. While I would prefer that she doesn't agree to it and I think it's completely out of character that she does I never asked her to do it in the first place nor did I even consider asking her to have a threesome/foursome with Halsin or the Drow twins. As far as I'm concerned this doesn't even exist as I would never trigger this when I play the game.
I've reached the conclusion that Halsin the companion becomes too much a Gary-Stu. The game world reality warping around him and companions acting completely out of character is exhibit A, which by itself convicts and condemns him. Halsin doppelganger begone!
Halsin the camp follower however, as set up in EA, is perfectly fine and welcome.
After almost finishing my playthrough and seeing some banters and other things related to him. Apparently, the character that until you finish her quest wouldn't even want to think about sharing (unless I missed something that would lead to that?) is suddenly all thirsty for him and to the point to make it loud and clear it seems in that twin drow dialogue and approvals/disapprovals. So... what's the whole point of romancing her if she will probably just be thinking about the bear? I am just disappointed.
While I would prefer that she doesn't agree to it and I think it's completely out of character that she does I never asked her to do it in the first place nor did I even consider asking her to have a threesome/foursome with Halsin or the Drow twins. As far as I'm concerned this doesn't even exist as I would never trigger this when I play the game.
Unfortunately I have to be the bearer of bad news. As much as I like the mindset of 'out of sight, out of mind' I'm afraid it doesn't really or fully work here. Or maybe it just doesn't work for me.
Because you see, Shadowheart flirts with Halsin during that one banter no matter what. So instead of rejecting his advances like you would expect her to, she instead welcomes them. If someone needs a refresher, this banter happens right after the romance is completed. Not before, not during but after. (So after the whole I want to spend the rest of my life with you/you are my true love conversation)
You are right that not having the foursome/fivesome/poly relationship is entirely up to the player and a players choice but what throws the wrench into this whole thing and ruins it for a lot of people are the words she uses and what those words imply. (if someone doesn't know what she says, look at my OP screenshots)
Like with Kagha, whether you discovered it or not she WAS working with the shadow druids an the same applies to Shadowheart. Whether you saw it or not she still has sexual thoughts and fantasies about Halsin while in a relationship with the MC (male or female) no matter what.
Like you said in makes no sense that she would say anything like that or be okay with it seeing how it contradicts her entire character, and yet its still there.
Originally Posted by portionbeans
It's just weird shit this guy put in the game for himself which is a shame writer's shouldn't do that.
I love that you said this. It shows how obvious it is to everyone what the writer tried to do. And he was rather sneaky with it, wasn't he? Putting it all at the end, it is as if there are two Shadowhearts. True Shadowheart for her story/romance and a doppelganger made for Halsin.
Originally Posted by Avallonkao
After almost finishing my playthrough and seeing some banters and other things related to him. Apparently, the character that until you finish her quest wouldn't even want to think about sharing (unless I missed something that would lead to that?) is suddenly all thirsty for him and to the point to make it loud and clear it seems in that twin drow dialogue and approvals/disapprovals. So... what's the whole point of romancing her if she will probably just be thinking about the bear? I am just disappointed.
And there it is, the million dollar question. Why would anyone want to romance this character? Why would anyone want to romance Shadowheart only for her to do a 180 after he story was done. I don't think anyone likes the idea of going through 3 acts of 'I love you main character, you're my true love bla bla' only to be blindsided with a 'Sike! I was always thinking of Halsin.'
And there it is, the million dollar question. Why would anyone want to romance this character? Why would anyone want to romance Shadowheart only for her to do a 180 after he story was done. I don't think anyone likes the idea of going through 3 acts of 'I love you main character, you're my true love bla bla' only to be blindsided with a 'Sike! I was always thinking of Halsin.'
And there it is, the million dollar question. Why would anyone want to romance this character? Why would anyone want to romance Shadowheart only for her to do a 180 after he story was done. I don't think anyone likes the idea of going through 3 acts of 'I love you main character, you're my true love bla bla' only to be blindsided with a 'Sike! I was always thinking of Halsin.'
I COULD NOT AGREE MORE. THIS DEFINITELY RUINED MY GAMEPLAY!
I did not even get to finish my good guy playthrough romancing shadowheart because by the time I got to the drow twins, I got a rejection from both Halsin and Shadowheart when I disagreed doing an ORGY with them. Like WTF. After all that story and character development for shadowheart, she shoulde be monogamous and loyal to the main character, she is scared of being alone and would not want the main character to leave her after all she has been through. But then, she suddenly says she dreams of sleeping with Halsin "Not once, twice, three times or even more than that" WTF. I was disgusted when she said this. By the time I got to this point I already formed a connection with her. I think her writing is really good, what she has been through and discovering all her memories back. But no, she'd rather sleep with a bear and do an orgy. I just wish maybe they give the players more freedom in this, like what if her reaction depends if you make her evil or make her a good character? Like if she is good, or selunite maybe monogamy?? then if she is with Shar maybe they can put that idea of polygamy and cheating with Halsin in. But comon how can this do this. I am so disappointed, I could not go through with my playthrough. I had to delete my character, restart a new game as the Dark Urge, and kill her in her sleep. Then on to romancing Minthara. Shouldve named her ShadowCuc**** for all I know. She left a bad taste in my Mouth...
Good thing I read the part that you wrote down about where she flirts with Halsin even after completing her romance. That would be even more hell!
Anway, I am glad I get to share this same sentiment with someone. I completely agree with everything you just wrote down. Larian should consider things like this more.!!
Writing like this makes me glad I uninstalled the game.
I will wait for Definitive Edition and if this horrible writing stays in, I would rather let Halsin die or kill him myself than be cocked by him.
In EA, he was known as a Daddy Halsin, but I considered it a meme and nothing more. Making him a full fledged companion was a mistake, he should have stayed as a npc with maybe a fling or two, if you help him out.
Not...... this.
Last edited by Annoyed Player; 09/09/2305:34 AM. Reason: Typos
This is pretty funny, especially if Halsin and Shadowheart have the same writer.
Halsin never appealed to me so I missed out on this. I agree Halsin reads as a self insert, and really how 12-year old me would have written my character. "I'm an elf but I'm super tall and jacked. I'm really powerful and super famous and I have a huge dick." Imagine thinking you're getting an origin/romance moment and it's actually just Shadowheart complaining about not getting to bang Halsin LOL.
Did the writer for Halsin/SH write any other characters? Would be interesting if they are the only pair to show this behavior.
None of the origin characters are cool with you romancing another origin character. Shadowheart ends the relationship if you romance Minthara She isn't pleased but doesn't end the relationship if you bang Mizora She mentions wanting you to herself at least the first time during the drow twins if you haven't had the grotto scene
She certainly doesn't lament or even mention the others should you reject their advances. Nor is there any possibility of a poly hookup with Minthara/Mizora. Again LOL i couldn't imagine getting a "Shadowheart disapproves" when you turn down a bear threesome.
edit: I also have no idea how SH responds if you romance Ralph's whatever in the house of hope
Or...Shadowheart is an adult individual who can engage in sexual jokes and banter without it meaning that she is going to act on any of it or even want to.
She is more than happy to engage in some lighthearted romantic fun at Druid's Grove. She seems well aware that she is attractive and used to responding to advances and banter with witty remarks throughout the entire story. The moment she shifts to being a bit more serious and sincere about it is when she and the main character realize that there may be some real and serious feelings involved. This is actually good story arc writing because it shows that the character is vulnerable and responds to the raised stakes of having her heart broken with shifting the way she addresses things with the main character. That she stays the same with regards to responding to other people that she does not have a romantic investment in, and doesn't change her entire person to submit to the main character's perception of how a monogamous person in a committed relationship must act and behave from now on, is indicative of a good and healthy adult relationship. As long as she does not go ahead and sneak off with any other other person behind her partner's back, even if she actually wants to do that, she is showing respect and commitment to her relationship.
There, I won't even charge you for that relationship councelling.
Or...Shadowheart is an adult individual who can engage in sexual jokes and banter without it meaning that she is going to act on any of it or even want to.
She is more than happy to engage in some lighthearted romantic fun at Druid's Grove. She seems well aware that she is attractive and used to responding to advances and banter with witty remarks throughout the entire story. The moment she shifts to being a bit more serious and sincere about it is when she and the main character realize that there may be some real and serious feelings involved. This is actually good story arc writing because it shows that the character is vulnerable and responds to the raised stakes of having her heart broken with shifting the way she addresses things with the main character. That she stays the same with regards to responding to other people that she does not have a romantic investment in, and doesn't change her entire person to submit to the main character's perception of how a monogamous person in a committed relationship must act and behave from now on, is indicative of a good and healthy adult relationship. As long as she does not go ahead and sneak off with any other other person behind her partner's back, even if she actually wants to do that, she is showing respect and commitment to her relationship.
There, I won't even charge you for that relationship councelling.
Oh yeah. That makes sense. I mean, who wouldn't want to be in a relationship with someone who's dreaming about having sex with someone else who's just a few steps away from you? And will jump to sleep with that person the first chance they've got and will openly flirt with them while you're around AND disapprove of you if you deny them the chance to have sex with said person. Seems a very good and healthy relationship. Especially if you're not into poly at all and just want an old and boring monogamous relationship.
Or...Shadowheart is an adult individual who can engage in sexual jokes and banter without it meaning that she is going to act on any of it or even want to.
She is more than happy to engage in some lighthearted romantic fun at Druid's Grove. She seems well aware that she is attractive and used to responding to advances and banter with witty remarks throughout the entire story. The moment she shifts to being a bit more serious and sincere about it is when she and the main character realize that there may be some real and serious feelings involved. This is actually good story arc writing because it shows that the character is vulnerable and responds to the raised stakes of having her heart broken with shifting the way she addresses things with the main character. That she stays the same with regards to responding to other people that she does not have a romantic investment in, and doesn't change her entire person to submit to the main character's perception of how a monogamous person in a committed relationship must act and behave from now on, is indicative of a good and healthy adult relationship. As long as she does not go ahead and sneak off with any other other person behind her partner's back, even if she actually wants to do that, she is showing respect and commitment to her relationship.
There, I won't even charge you for that relationship councelling.
LOL, LMAO even. I'm going to be a bit of an asshole now but I'll do try to keep it playful.
That's a lot of words just to say you are into cucking. I bet it felt rather good writing all of that, especially that last line. But the gaslighting doesn't really work. You might have your preferences and views when it comes to relationships but you will find them amongst the minority if you only decide to look outside your bubble.
Now let me say this, I really don't care what kinks or interest you or anyone else has. (OneManArmy comes to mind) I really don't and never did, what makes you aroused and how you conduct yourself during your relationships is entirely up to you and I will not think less of you just because I don't share your enthusiasm for it. I just ask that you or others don't shove it in my face or try to trick me into it, especially when it comes to the enjoyment of my games, books, movies etc.
You go on about how flirty she is and aware of her position/attractiveness and yet she is rather dismissive of anyone that isn't the player character throughout the game, she is even so interested and invested in the main character from the start that if you decided not to kiss her during the Tiefling party she voices her disappointment. Which leads us into the rest of her romance/story. You said she changes how she interacts with the MC as soon as the stakes are raised and feelings are involved and that is true, true to the point that her investment in the MC leads her to reject any other advances from others or ideas of sharing.
But a person experiencing her story should not voices their concerns if a character starts exhibiting contradictory behavior and statements because a writer decided to spice it up out of nowhere with Mizora or Halsin? (Both scenes felt like they were tacked on after everything was already established)
As for your 'mature' outlook, believe it or not but the majority of people regardless of their sexual orientation don't consider it a healthy relationship for their partner to flirt with others or constantly fantasize and or pine for others. You might even say its a deal breaker.
And seeing how Shadowheart despite her claims of commitment goes 180 AFTER her story is finished and flirts and thirsts for Halsin no matter what, it is understandable as to why a lot of people are not pleased. People don't like being led on, in real life or fiction. So when a writer surprises you with a sneaky little cuck fetish you get reactions like these.
Now lets me be a bit sassy and do some relationship counselling of my own. No its not controlling to expect commitment in a mono relationship, no its not making a partner submit by asking them not to flirt with others and cheat on you. It's okay to have self respect, It's okay to voice your concerns and set down your deal breakers. There, I wont even charge your that
Quote
even if she actually wants to do that
God damn has this silly little trash fire of poor writing brought a smile to my face. Oh god man XD (I'm talking about the games writing and the discussion around it by the way, your post has been rather enjoyable to read despite completely disagreeing with it lol)
Oh yeah. That makes sense. I mean, who wouldn't want to be in a relationship with someone who's dreaming about having sex with someone else who's just a few steps away from you? And will jump to sleep with that person the first chance they've got and will openly flirt with them while you're around AND disapprove of you if you deny them the chance to have sex with said person. Seems a very good and healthy relationship. Especially if you're not into poly at all and just want an old and boring monogamous relationship.
Words aren't actions. I don't read into it that she has any desire to sneak away with anyone else just because she makes a few flirty jokes. If my partner was honest and sincere with me in a way that Shadowheart is in private, I would trust them to not be inconsiderate and hurtful towards me, and not jump to any premature conclusions based on some comments. Maybe her disapproval is a sign of her getting bad vibes from you that you are being possessive and don't trust her.
LOL, LMAO even. I'm going to be a bit of an asshole now but I'll do try to keep it playful.
That's a lot of words just to say you are into cucking. I bet it felt rather good writing all of that, especially that last line. But the gaslighting doesn't really work. You might have your preferences and views when it comes to relationships but you will find them amongst the minority if you only decide to look outside your bubble.
Now let me say this, I really don't care what kinks or interest you or anyone else has. (OneManArmy comes to mind) I really don't and never did, what makes you aroused and how you conduct yourself during your relationships is entirely up to you and I will not think less of you just because I don't share your enthusiasm for it. I just ask that you or others don't shove it in my face or try to trick me into it, especially when it comes to the enjoyment of my games, books, movies etc.
You go on about how flirty she is and aware of her position/attractiveness and yet she is rather dismissive of anyone that isn't the player character throughout the game, she is even so interested and invested in the main character from the start that if you decided not to kiss her during the Tiefling party she voices her disappointment. Which leads us into the rest of her romance/story. You said she changes how she interacts with the MC as soon as the stakes are raised and feelings are involved and that is true, true to the point that her investment in the MC leads her to reject any other advances from others or ideas of sharing.
But a person experiencing her story should not voices their concerns if a character starts exhibiting contradictory behavior and statements because a writer decided to spice it up out of nowhere with Mizora or Halsin? (Both scenes felt like they were tacked on after everything was already established)
As for your 'mature' outlook, believe it or not but the majority of people regardless of their sexual orientation don't consider it a healthy relationship for their partner to flirt with others or constantly fantasize and or pine for others. You might even say its a deal breaker.
And seeing how Shadowheart despite her claims of commitment goes 180 AFTER her story is finished and flirts and thirsts for Halsin no matter what, it is understandable as to why a lot of people are not pleased. People don't like being led on, in real life or fiction. So when a writer surprises you with a sneaky little cuck fetish you get reactions like these.
Now lets me be a bit sassy and do some relationship counselling of my own. No its not controlling to expect commitment in a mono relationship, no its not making a partner submit by asking them not to flirt with others and cheat on you. It's okay to have self respect, It's okay to voice your concerns and set down your deal breakers. There, I wont even charge your that
Aside from the very premature conclusions about my sexual desires, the rest of your reply was well worded.
I have a social circle where sexual references and jokes that are very on the nose is perfectly accepted and enjoyed, without any of us ever having taken those words into actual action or practice. So I don't read much into how the characters in BG3 interact in that regard, it seems that is how they have been written. Maybe the writers have spent a lot of time watching Critical Role and assumed that is how everyone enjoys their DnD banter.
Oh yeah. That makes sense. I mean, who wouldn't want to be in a relationship with someone who's dreaming about having sex with someone else who's just a few steps away from you? And will jump to sleep with that person the first chance they've got and will openly flirt with them while you're around AND disapprove of you if you deny them the chance to have sex with said person. Seems a very good and healthy relationship. Especially if you're not into poly at all and just want an old and boring monogamous relationship.
Words aren't actions. I don't read into it that she has any desire to sneak away with anyone else just because she makes a few flirty jokes. If my partner was honest and sincere with me in a way that Shadowheart is in private, I would trust them to not be inconsiderate and hurtful towards me, and not jump to any premature conclusions based on some comments. Maybe her disapproval is a sign of her getting bad vibes from you that you are being possessive and don't trust her.
I understand, If that's how you feel about the whole thing with her, who am I to say otherwise?
I personally still think that her personality from before Act 3 to after finishing her quest just turned 180 in terms of her preferences, since before it, it was never once (again, unless I missed something) mentioned or hinted that she was into this sort of things or especially into halsin of all ppl.
Well, there’s no shortage of “romance” options on the forum today.
I'd rather stay with Shadowheart than with the Dubai princess. The former might give me headaches when flirting with Halsin, but the latter for sure will give me a computer virus and is already more annoying than the jokes if Dribbles the clown
"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."
^yeah, seeking refuge in this thread if you guys don't mind. does dubai spam posting usually happens? as for OP, i strongly believe the flags are fucked up, everything in this blasted game is still bugged.
"So... it was a bug," said Vincke. "The approval thresholds were too low when we shipped. That's why they were so horny in the beginning. It wasn't supposed to be that way. We've fixed it since, at least for some of them. We're still fixing a few of them."
Looking at the other thread regarding Halsin, the main issue seems to lie there. Once Halsin becomes a companion, they seem to have decided to lean very heavily into the daddy-bear joke and assume that those who bring Halsin along are the ones who are interested in exploring that whole poly-dad-bear story arc (since there's no role for him to fill otherwise with Jaheira as the more obvious canon character). Unless I am missing something there are no quests in act 3 where he plays any major part, so the writing assumes that you only brought him along for bear jokes and poly-romance and they make Shadowheart adapt to that. If Shadowheart didn't play along, would we have threads with people complaining that they wanted to have a Shadowheart threesome, but she is too much of a prude to go along with it and it ruins their fun?
Well, there’s no shortage of “romance” options on the forum today.
I'd rather stay with Shadowheart than with the Dubai princess. The former might give me headaches when flirting with Halsin, but the latter for sure will give me a computer virus and is already more annoying than the jokes if Dribbles the clown
Dribbles is a comedic genius. You take that back.
Remember the human (This is a forum for a video game):
Aside from the very premature conclusions about my sexual desires, the rest of your reply was well worded.
I have a social circle where sexual references and jokes that are very on the nose is perfectly accepted and enjoyed, without any of us ever having taken those words into actual action or practice. So I don't read much into how the characters in BG3 interact in that regard, it seems that is how they have been written. Maybe the writers have spent a lot of time watching Critical Role and assumed that is how everyone enjoys their DnD banter.
Then I apologize if I have painted you in a bad/unflattering light. Some statements did seem to me, how should I put this, cuck adjacent. I might've jumped to a conclusion in my initial response.
I still disagree with your take on it tho. As for your reference to your private life and jokes being made, it is normal to joke in friend groups even finding someone attractive is normal. We are human beings, having likes and dislikes is normal.
But there is a difference between saying that person is attractive and going out of your way to flirt with them while in a relationship. It comes of as betrayal of trust to many, especial when you learn that the person you are with is actively longing for someone else.
Even tho its connected to Shadowheart and how she is portrayed (contradictions and all) I don't want to steer this thread into a real life relationship discussion. So lets stay on the 'lets agree to disagree'
I can't comment on Critical Roll since I don't know much about it. I was never a fan of the whole table top DnD, to be honest. I like the lore and the setting but the table top aspect was never attractive to me.
Originally Posted by Avallonkao
I personally still think that her personality from before Act 3 to after finishing her quest just turned 180 in terms of her preferences, since before it, it was never once (again, unless I missed something) mentioned or hinted that she was into this sort of things or especially into halsin of all ppl.
No it was never hinted or shown that she was interested in cheating on the MC, on the contrary there are few examples where she is against it and the whole idea of sharing.
Same with Halsin, the Mizora scene feels like it was added after her story was established. (seeing how she goes from I don't like sharing and cheating to a sudden I'm totally fine with you sleeping with Mizora but I'm still mad you didn't tell me)
Some people might say that her past is indicative of her being down with it but I would disagree. The only thing her past shows us is that she had previous sexual experiences (casual sex/hook ups - like the rest of the companions, you wont find your pure virgin if that's what you are looking for - I know some people are looking for that :/) and seeing how she is rather possessive of you during her romance 'I don't want to be your spare lover'/'I would always want more of you' the idea that she would suddenly flirt and try to cheat on you with Halsin does come of as strange.
Originally Posted by papercut_ninja
Looking at the other thread regarding Halsin, the main issue seems to lie there. Once Halsin becomes a companion, they seem to have decided to lean very heavily into the daddy-bear joke and assume that those who bring Halsin along are the ones who are interested in exploring that whole poly-dad-bear story arc (since there's no role for him to fill otherwise with Jaheira as the more obvious canon character). Unless I am missing something there are no quests in act 3 where he plays any major part, so the writing assumes that you only brought him along for bear jokes and poly-romance and they make Shadowheart adapt to that. If Shadowheart didn't play along, would we have threads with people complaining that they wanted to have a Shadowheart threesome, but she is too much of a prude to go along with it and it ruins their fun?
As you have observed Halsin does come of as a joke daddy/bear character and in my opinion he comes as one of the worst written characters in the game because of his overreliance on kink and lack of actual development.
But I think the main issue that people have with Shadoheart is that they expected something akin to Morrigan. And you do get that up until the very end where the 'OC do not steal' Halsin comes in and contradicts everything you experienced throughout her story. (People tend to look for wish fulfillments/power fantasies when playin RPGs in most cases, so like with BioWare they want that happy ever after for their characters and romances without any twists. Just look at the Karlach thread)
I do wonder if Shadowheart had a different writer would her interaction with Halsin been any different. I would expect Shadowhearts reaction to Halsins flirting to be a strong no but because the writer had other plans for his fan-fic you end up with the mess at hand.
The threesome question and people writing different threads about it, I don't think so. Especially if you look at other character being strongly opposed to it, Shadowheart would fit right in. (and she does reject sharing and threesomes with others up until Halsin shows up) Peoples issue is that Halsin just overrides everything and assumes the position of a main character at the expense of the player.
(I don't know if you read or heard about the Harry Potter - My Immortal fan-fic but Halsin reminds me of that.)
Quote
Well, there’s no shortage of “romance” options on the forum today.
Quote
I'd rather stay with Shadowheart than with the Dubai princess. The former might give me headaches when flirting with Halsin, but the latter for sure will give me a computer virus and is already more annoying than the jokes if Dribbles the clown
Quote
^yeah, seeking refuge in this thread if you guys don't mind. does dubai spam posting usually happens?
Damn it people! The hot Dubai girls in my area are gone!
I'm sure they could've written Shadowheart being able to be convinced into a threesome without her cucking the MC. It's the established relationship trajectory warping in the presence of Halsin which is the main culprit here.
In some ways, Larian is predictable. EA Halsin was publicly character-assassinated during the last PFH. And in game, you walk into a brothel and talk to a pair of drow prostitutes...
Larian writing + drow hookers + Gary-Stu Halsin (overriding any and all romance flags) + any companion
I'm sure they could've written Shadowheart being able to be convinced into a threesome without her cucking the MC. It's the established relationship trajectory warping in the presence of Halsin which is the main culprit here.
Nicely put. The scene and the banter are not in line with what you would expect from Shadowheart. It contradicts and in all honesty ruins her character. They could've removed the banter and written that scene with her rejecting Halsins proposition. Then leave it up to the player to have a persuasion check to change her mind (although I think a lot of folks wouldn't like that either lol) but they went with her strait up chasing Halsin and ignoring the MC.
A romance path that ends in a partner revealing that they want someone else is not an appealing one.
I'm sure they could've written Shadowheart being able to be convinced into a threesome without her cucking the MC. It's the established relationship trajectory warping in the presence of Halsin which is the main culprit here.
In some ways, Larian is predictable. EA Halsin was publicly character-assassinated during the last PFH. And in game, you walk into a brothel and talk to a pair of drow prostitutes...
Larian writing + drow hookers + Gary-Stu Halsin (overriding any and all romance flags) + any companion
Is it all really surprising?
Not going to have these problems because Halsin is never leaving camp because he’s the least compelling companion and the other Druid is one of the best.
Remember the human (This is a forum for a video game):
In my new playthrough, I will just instantly kill him in the goblin camp, After all, oh no, a bear, it's dangerous. kill it. I hope this won't make certain characters mad at me. XD
Damn, i dodged a bullet thanks to Orin. Wood elf Druid sleeping under baldurs gate while my human male fighter enjoys his retirement on a farm with a selunite shadowheart. Sounds like a made a good choice not cheating on her as well or considering any foursomes.
I'm sure they could've written Shadowheart being able to be convinced into a threesome without her cucking the MC. It's the established relationship trajectory warping in the presence of Halsin which is the main culprit here.
In some ways, Larian is predictable. EA Halsin was publicly character-assassinated during the last PFH. And in game, you walk into a brothel and talk to a pair of drow prostitutes...
Larian writing + drow hookers + Gary-Stu Halsin (overriding any and all romance flags) + any companion
Is it all really surprising?
Not going to have these problems because Halsin is never leaving camp because he’s the least compelling companion and the other Druid is one of the best.
Yeah, I guess, that is the best solution in regards to Halsin. On the plus side, he will get
abducted by Orin
and I will kill her last and don't have to see him for the vast majority of act 3 - win-win. And I mean,
I could just provoke Orin, so that Halsin accidently gets killed
- perfect.
And sorry for talking crap about Dribbles, the clown #justicefordribbles
"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."
I'm sure they could've written Shadowheart being able to be convinced into a threesome without her cucking the MC. It's the established relationship trajectory warping in the presence of Halsin which is the main culprit here.
In some ways, Larian is predictable. EA Halsin was publicly character-assassinated during the last PFH. And in game, you walk into a brothel and talk to a pair of drow prostitutes...
Larian writing + drow hookers + Gary-Stu Halsin (overriding any and all romance flags) + any companion
Is it all really surprising?
Not going to have these problems because Halsin is never leaving camp because he’s the least compelling companion and the other Druid is one of the best.
Yeah, I guess, that is the best solution in regards to Halsin. On the plus side, he will get
abducted by Orin
and I will kill her last and don't have to see him for the vast majority of act 3 - win-win. And I mean,
I could just provoke Orin, so that Halsin accidently gets killed
- perfect.
And sorry for talking crap about Dribbles, the clown #justicefordribbles
#JusticeForDribbles Please make Dribbles a romanceable origin companion who only speaks in puns and “Wa-Hey”s. We demand more Dribbles banter!
Remember the human (This is a forum for a video game):
Oh yeah. That makes sense. I mean, who wouldn't want to be in a relationship with someone who's dreaming about having sex with someone else who's just a few steps away from you? And will jump to sleep with that person the first chance they've got and will openly flirt with them while you're around AND disapprove of you if you deny them the chance to have sex with said person. Seems a very good and healthy relationship. Especially if you're not into poly at all and just want an old and boring monogamous relationship.
Words aren't actions. I don't read into it that she has any desire to sneak away with anyone else just because she makes a few flirty jokes. If my partner was honest and sincere with me in a way that Shadowheart is in private, I would trust them to not be inconsiderate and hurtful towards me, and not jump to any premature conclusions based on some comments. Maybe her disapproval is a sign of her getting bad vibes from you that you are being possessive and don't trust her.
Bro, I cannot fathom how you are convincing yourself of this. Words are not actions but they do convey INTENTIONS. Also, considering she dreamt about her interaction with Halsin, already suggests an 'action'. Even if she wants to do that 'Action' she cannot unless they have coded that in the game, so the closest thing we can get is her dreaming of Halsin, and her intentions based on what she is saying. So even if they are just Words, they are all that we can rely on to move forward in the story, showing the intentions of the characters, and what they actually want to do. So no, its also not a "premature conclusion based on some comments" thing, because we know what happens in the game: she dreams of Halsin, disapproves when you do not let them sleep with each other, flirts with Halsin even after her romance is completed. Shadowheart dreaming of sleeping with Halsin, and wanting to get with him is BTW a form of EMOTIONAL CHEATING. I do not know if you have heard of this considering, you may be into this ShadowCuck thing.
But also, the fact that you approve of Shadowheart making "few flirty jokes" to other companions while you are in a romantic relationship with her is just... disgusting. And no her disapproval is just not her getting bad vibes from you, because you are being possessive. At that point of the story, you have already explored her romance and know that you have each other as romantic partners. Let me tell you, it is normal for people to be possessive of each other when they are in a romantic relationship. Shadowheart demonstrates this 'possessiveness' when you try to romance other companions and you are already with her, and will even end your romantic relationship, as she does not want to share you. So bottomline is, she is not disapproving of you because of "bad vibes", wtf that is so shallow. And no she should not be disapproving of you because you are being possessive, that should be normal as the MC and her is in a relationship in game. BOTH Halsin, and her disapprove of you at the same time, because you disagree with them getting together, simple as that, and it is so clear to see. Open your eyes.
Originally Posted by papercut_ninja
Even if she actually wants to do that
WTF... hahahah I do not know what to say anymore.
Originally Posted by papercut_ninja
Looking at the other thread regarding Halsin, the main issue seems to lie there. Once Halsin becomes a companion, they seem to have decided to lean very heavily into the daddy-bear joke and assume that those who bring Halsin along are the ones who are interested in exploring that whole poly-dad-bear story arc (since there's no role for him to fill otherwise with Jaheira as the more obvious canon character). Unless I am missing something there are no quests in act 3 where he plays any major part, so the writing assumes that you only brought him along for bear jokes and poly-romance and they make Shadowheart adapt to that. If Shadowheart didn't play along, would we have threads with people complaining that they wanted to have a Shadowheart threesome, but she is too much of a prude to go along with it and it ruins their fun?
As Rotsen has written in the original post, and as I have also written in my earlier post, regarding this Shadowheart threesome and people complaining. Larian could have made it so that for people who really wants to have threesome moment with Shadowheart, they could make it so that she will agree with this kind of thing if she takes the Evil or Shar Route in game, that way her character background would actually be more fitting- as Shar is into doing evil acts, so I would agree if she would not mind having threesomes or orgies, or poly romances. However, they could also have made it so that if players choose the Selunite Shadowheart or the good Shadowheart route, then she will be more possessive of the MC, given everything that she has been through, and would not want to share the MC with others. I think this is the best option Larian could have made.
Bro, I cannot fathom how you are convincing yourself of this. Words are not actions but they do convey INTENTIONS. Also, considering she dreamt about her interaction with Halsin, already suggests an 'action'. Even if she wants to do that 'Action' she cannot unless they have coded that in the game, so the closest thing we can get is her dreaming of Halsin, and her intentions based on what she is saying. So even if they are just Words, they are all that we can rely on to move forward in the story, showing the intentions of the characters, and what they actually want to do. So no, its also not a "premature conclusion based on some comments" thing, because we know what happens in the game: she dreams of Halsin, disapproves when you do not let them sleep with each other, flirts with Halsin even after her romance is completed. Shadowheart dreaming of sleeping with Halsin, and wanting to get with him is BTW a form of EMOTIONAL CHEATING. I do not know if you have heard of this considering, you may be into this ShadowCuck thing.
But also, the fact that you approve of Shadowheart making "few flirty jokes" to other companions while you are in a romantic relationship with her is just... disgusting. And no her disapproval is just not her getting bad vibes from you, because you are being possessive. At that point of the story, you have already explored her romance and know that you have each other as romantic partners. Let me tell you, it is normal for people to be possessive of each other when they are in a romantic relationship. Shadowheart demonstrates this 'possessiveness' when you try to romance other companions and you are already with her, and will even end your romantic relationship, as she does not want to share you. So bottomline is, she is not disapproving of you because of "bad vibes", wtf that is so shallow. And no she should not be disapproving of you because you are being possessive, that should be normal as the MC and her is in a relationship in game. BOTH Halsin, and her disapprove of you at the same time, because you disagree with them getting together, simple as that, and it is so clear to see. Open your eyes.
As Rotsen has written in the original post, and as I have also written in my earlier post, regarding this Shadowheart threesome and people complaining. Larian could have made it so that for people who really wants to have threesome moment with Shadowheart, they could make it so that she will agree with this kind of thing if she takes the Evil or Shar Route in game, that way her character background would actually be more fitting- as Shar is into doing evil acts, so I would agree if she would not mind having threesomes or orgies, or poly romances. However, they could also have made it so that if players choose the Selunite Shadowheart or the good Shadowheart route, then she will be more possessive of the MC, given everything that she has been through, and would not want to share the MC with others. I think this is the best option Larian could have made.
Dreams aren't intentional, I have no control over what happens in my dreams. What I do when I am awake and conscious is what I can control. What I am saying is that sexual thoughts and fantasies aren't a betrayal as long as you leave them at that.
Whether sexual activities between consenting adults are "evil acts" is a matter of personal belief which is a discussion that I don't think anyone wants to get into. I'll just leave it at that I don't agree that it has anything to do with being evil or not.
Oh yeah. That makes sense. I mean, who wouldn't want to be in a relationship with someone who's dreaming about having sex with someone else who's just a few steps away from you? And will jump to sleep with that person the first chance they've got and will openly flirt with them while you're around AND disapprove of you if you deny them the chance to have sex with said person. Seems a very good and healthy relationship. Especially if you're not into poly at all and just want an old and boring monogamous relationship.
Words aren't actions. I don't read into it that she has any desire to sneak away with anyone else just because she makes a few flirty jokes. If my partner was honest and sincere with me in a way that Shadowheart is in private, I would trust them to not be inconsiderate and hurtful towards me, and not jump to any premature conclusions based on some comments. Maybe her disapproval is a sign of her getting bad vibes from you that you are being possessive and don't trust her.
If your partner gaslights you about being possessive/don't trust me, it's over.
Don't know why we're arguing about real relationships when Shadowheart is fictional.
Hey man! She is real! lol XD
Stories and fictional characters have always been the source/topic of a many debate/discussions because they invoke certain emotions and responses from people. And seeing how this is a discussion about romances it is expected for the real world to seep in from time to time.
But as high as my disgust/dislike is for what the writer did with Shadowheart it is good advice to remember that its still fiction.
I do hope that people keep talking about it and why they dont want these kind of things in their games so that maybe Larian in the future ends up changing it. (Some future patch or Definitive Edition) You know, the whole make noise thing.
As selfish as it sounds, I do expect games to cater to the main character and not work against the player. And if this thread is any indicator so do the others.
(simplified version of my post - Hey man this is a game and I play games to have fun, I don't want those games to lie to me and try to cuck me. Also I would appreciate it if you kept your self inserts/fan-fics to yourself when making/writing stories for general audiences.)
Don't know why we're arguing about real relationships when Shadowheart is fictional.
Hey man! She is real! lol XD
Stories and fictional characters have always been the source/topic of a many debate/discussions because they invoke certain emotions and responses from people. And seeing how this is a discussion about romances it is expected for the real world to seep in from time to time.
But as high as my disgust/dislike is for what the writer did with Shadowheart it is good advice to remember that its still fiction.
I do hope that people keep talking about it and why they dont want these kind of things in their games so that maybe Larian in the future ends up changing it. (Some future patch or Definitive Edition) You know, the whole make noise thing.
As selfish as it sounds, I do expect games to cater to the main character and not work against the player. And if this thread is any indicator so do the others.
(simplified version of my post - Hey man this is a game and I play games to have fun, I don't want those games to lie to me and try to cuck me. Also I would appreciate it if you kept your self inserts/fan-fics to yourself when making/writing stories for general audiences.)
Okay that's fair, and you're entitled to your feedback on the game. I was more speaking to the general meta-discussion going on regarding the ethics of relationship dynamics, which I felt threatened to derail the focus of the discussion being within the game world and our experience of it, as opposed to beyond the game world and our judgments of actual relationships. To reiterate, I have no horse in the race because I will never have this problem with Halsin, who stays in camp (where he belongs).
Remember the human (This is a forum for a video game):
Okay that's fair, and you're entitled to your feedback on the game. I was more speaking to the general meta-discussion going on regarding the ethics of relationship dynamics, which I felt threatened to derail the focus of the discussion being within the game world and our experience of it, as opposed to beyond the game world and our judgments of actual relationships. To reiterate, I have no horse in the race because I will never have this problem with Halsin, who stays in camp (where he belongs).
Gotcha!
You might not wanna hear this but that plan with Halsin staying in camp doesn't really work. I think I already mentioned this/used this example but it doesn't matter whether you find out the truth or not Kagha IS working with the shadow druids and the same applies to Shadowheart.
She is longing for Halsin despite you not going to the brothel, (which I didn't, my introduction to this shit show came from the unavoidable banter) that scene just shines the light on the whole situation. That's why I keep saying its devious and malicious. It makes no sense for the character and it honestly servers as an insult to the player.
Its in bad taste to write a romance that not only contradicts the rest of the characters story but also to basically say you are wasting time romancing this character because they are reserved for another.
Maybe try killing him in the goblin camp to evade that, but then again removing that shit entirely would be better.
Marriage is like a Paladin Oath. Adultery violates your oath. Welcome to divorce court. However there are no marriages in this game, so nobody is under oath yet.
I'm usually not active on social media and forums. But, for some reason, this thread and others have become a laughing stock on facebook bg3 groups by a community that calls itself inclusive and welcoming. So, since any words of criticism were called incels' crying and kinksshaming, I decided to add my two cents too. To get the whole picture, three facts need to be stated. First of all I was really looking forward to the release of this game and had a great time until the third act.I don't remember the last time I was so interested in anything. Secondly, I decided to romance Shadowheart only because I saw another thread about her not agreeing to polygamy. And finally, my ex-wife cheated on me over 2 years ago. When I finished the Shadowheart quest and saw her banter with Halsin, I thought it was strange but I didn't care much about it. Unfortunately, as fate would have it, when I met the drow twins, I had Halsin on my team. You must understand that the game absorbed me so much that after completing the conversation, I often reloaded to see what other dialogue options looked like. For some unknown reason when Larian decided to throw it in my face that even my fictional in-game character wasn't enough to satisfy the person he was involved with, the trauma, fears and insecurities I thought I had overcome resurfaced. Fortunately, only for a moment. But I was so embarrassed by my reaction that I didn't even check if others were also bothered by it.Two weeks have passed and I still can't bring myself to play the game again. For me, games have always been a safe haven that allowed me to break away from the gray everyday life. It seems those days are over. Even though I probably won't finish the game, I wanted to thank you all for deciding to raise this topic, thanks to which I could accidentally end up here. Knowing that even people without life baggage found this scene disturbing is... easing. Since there are people here who decided to give very enlightened advice about relationships, I will also give you one. If you are ever in a relationship and your partner starts behaving in a similar way, not as primitive as here, I don't know how shameless you would have to be to do as the writer presented it, but if you start to feel that you are a third wheel in conversations and your partner starts talking too much about who they like. This is not a flag but a horn from hell that this relationship is over and your partner is simply too much of a coward to face you. I don't wish anyone to feel this indescribable feeling when you are betrayed by the person you loved the most and I'm sorry you had to read yet another post from a crying incel.
There's a BG3 group clowning forum posters? Not to our faces? COME OUT YE COWARDS AND FACE ME. I BECKON THEE; NAY, I SUMMON THEE. YOU THINK YOU CAN MOCK US LIKE SOME VILLAINS IN THE DARK? COME OUT OF YOUR PRECIOUS LITTLE ECHO CHAMBER AND FACE ME LIKE THE WARRIOR I KNOW YOU ARE INSIDE!
Anyway, I don't want to be dismissive of your life experiences, CryingOnion, but I think you may need to talk to someone, like a professional, about what's going on in your life. I know talking to a professional has become somewhat stigmatized, but there is no shame in it, and if it helps you through something then it can only benefit. Your feelings are real and valid, but they may have less to do with Baldur's Gate 3 the video game, and more to do with what you feel inside not having an outlet. I've gone through tough times and sought professional help before. If something is causing you pain this deep, perhaps you just need help getting picked up off the ground.
Remember the human (This is a forum for a video game):
I'm usually not active on social media and forums. But, for some reason, this thread and others have become a laughing stock on facebook bg3 groups by a community that calls itself inclusive and welcoming. So, since any words of criticism were called incels' crying and kinksshaming, I decided to add my two cents too. To get the whole picture, three facts need to be stated. First of all I was really looking forward to the release of this game and had a great time until the third act.I don't remember the last time I was so interested in anything. Secondly, I decided to romance Shadowheart only because I saw another thread about her not agreeing to polygamy. And finally, my ex-wife cheated on me over 2 years ago. When I finished the Shadowheart quest and saw her banter with Halsin, I thought it was strange but I didn't care much about it. Unfortunately, as fate would have it, when I met the drow twins, I had Halsin on my team. You must understand that the game absorbed me so much that after completing the conversation, I often reloaded to see what other dialogue options looked like. For some unknown reason when Larian decided to throw it in my face that even my fictional in-game character wasn't enough to satisfy the person he was involved with, the trauma, fears and insecurities I thought I had overcome resurfaced. Fortunately, only for a moment. But I was so embarrassed by my reaction that I didn't even check if others were also bothered by it.Two weeks have passed and I still can't bring myself to play the game again. For me, games have always been a safe haven that allowed me to break away from the gray everyday life. It seems those days are over. Even though I probably won't finish the game, I wanted to thank you all for deciding to raise this topic, thanks to which I could accidentally end up here. Knowing that even people without life baggage found this scene disturbing is... easing. Since there are people here who decided to give very enlightened advice about relationships, I will also give you one. If you are ever in a relationship and your partner starts behaving in a similar way, not as primitive as here, I don't know how shameless you would have to be to do as the writer presented it, but if you start to feel that you are a third wheel in conversations and your partner starts talking too much about who they like. This is not a flag but a horn from hell that this relationship is over and your partner is simply too much of a coward to face you. I don't wish anyone to feel this indescribable feeling when you are betrayed by the person you loved the most and I'm sorry you had to read yet another post from a crying incel.
I really don't want to come of as insensitive and I do appreciate you sharing your thoughts with us, about the game and real life but I think you need to take a good break my dude.
If what you say is true and the cheating you have experienced has shaken you so much that any reminder of it leads to those hurtful memories resurfacing I think it might be a good time to do something about it. Do remember that this is still a game, you might dislike the said fiction but it should never affect you so.
As for Facebook, lol. No one should concern themselves with what a bunch of balding cuckolds, fat bronies and zoophile degenerates have to say. Oh no! Not the 'kinkshaming' lol.
Either way, take care of yourself. And if you are trolling 4/10.
edit. Seems Zerubbabel was faster, but yeah if what you say is true do listen to his advice.
^hey @cryingonion, i'm going to suspect the people not taking this matter seriously were alike like me, i thought the scene was bugged and that the game detected a halsin romance flag along with shadowheart, but, that is not the case.
Gale quite literally gets cucked. Before i post his scene i have to add that gale and wyll are compltely only monogamous. halsin can ask you to ask them if they are willing to share, but they will say no. keep this in mind, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3Cf7ryl_XA at 4:!7
Halsin injects himself and asks to join, similar to how shadowheart's scene was, and gale says a half heartly "sure" then proceeds to stay back and watch as your character goes down town with halsin. it's absolutely crazy though what shadowheart choose to say if this was 100% intentional. with no romance flags of halsin triggered, she admits that she's been dreaming of halsin. i still think it's odd though, i'm now 50 on this being bugged, and 50 of it being intentional thanks to gale's drow scene
Okay folks, it’s past my bedtime and I don’t have time to fully read this thread but on an initial glance there’s far too much going on about “cucks” (which I confess is a term that I find icky) as well as some other posts that are pushing it when it comes to civil, constructive engagement.
Let’s tone it down and try to use less loaded and emotive terminology when discussing topics that can impinge on very personal parts of people’s real lives.
"You may call it 'nonsense' if you like, but I've heard nonsense, compared with which that would be as sensible as a dictionary!"
After reading this Im glad Halsin completely bugged out for my first playthrough, SH was my MC's sole romance and I enjoyed that process while rejecting all else.
I am once again challenging Facebook Group lurkers to single combat.
My only opinion on this topic is that poly should be something actively pursued by the player, not the default setting. I mean this in no way as a judgment on people who partake in this type of life; I simply think most people would prefer the mono setting as standard with the option to switch to poly.
Remember the human (This is a forum for a video game):
I am once again challenging Facebook Group lurkers to single combat.
My only opinion on this topic is that poly should be something actively pursued by the player, not the default setting. I mean this in no way as a judgment on people who partake in this type of life; I simply think most people would prefer the mono setting as standard with the option to switch to poly.
I think that if the player is romancing both of them, okay, no problem at all with the banters, scenes, etc. Heck, it's a great option for those who like it. (Although I still think that SH is not the best option for this from what we have learned about her until then) However, the moment it's forced down as something that is beyond player choices and makes them uncomfortable it shouldn't be allowed, simple as that.
I'm doing a new run because I really love Shadowheart, so to "fix" this issue, I'll just kill Halsin once I meet him as he really doesn't add anything useful for me, since I don't care about the bear joke, AND I cannot deny him joining my camp after the party, which I find ridiculous and absurd. Heck, you can deny anyone from joining you or going to your camp, but you can't deny him, tsc. At least I tried all the lines in my last game and none led to saying no, I don't want you to follow me. Unless I'm missing something there.
I am once again challenging Facebook Group lurkers to single combat.
My only opinion on this topic is that poly should be something actively pursued by the player, not the default setting. I mean this in no way as a judgment on people who partake in this type of life; I simply think most people would prefer the mono setting as standard with the option to switch to poly.
Well, if you remove everything where the player isn't actively pursuing or suggesting some form of sexual experimenting, the only thing that occurs are three lines of banter between SH and Halsin. Given that all of the companions seem horny most of the time and unashamedly brings this up at every opportunity (I am looking at YOU Gale, take a hint!), I don't feel that the writing really wrestled the reins out of the player's hands on this one. Everything stays the same between the main character and SH for the rest of the story as long as you don't pursue something, so I would say that the relationship is monogamous by default.
If my partner took me along to a pair of sex workers and initiated a discussion about exchanging sexual favours, I'd take that as a pretty strong hint that they are up for some sexual experimenting, and I would consider it a pretty underhanded move to then guilt me about going along with it.
I am once again challenging Facebook Group lurkers to single combat.
My only opinion on this topic is that poly should be something actively pursued by the player, not the default setting. I mean this in no way as a judgment on people who partake in this type of life; I simply think most people would prefer the mono setting as standard with the option to switch to poly.
Well, if you remove everything where the player isn't actively pursuing or suggesting some form of sexual experimenting, the only thing that occurs are three lines of banter between SH and Halsin. Given that all of the companions seem horny most of the time and unashamedly brings this up at every opportunity (I am looking at YOU Gale, take a hint!), I don't feel that the writing really wrestled the reins out of the player's hands on this one. Everything stays the same between the main character and SH for the rest of the story as long as you don't pursue something, so I would say that the relationship is monogamous by default.
If my partner took me along to a pair of sex workers and initiated a discussion about exchanging sexual favours, I'd take that as a pretty strong hint that they are up for some sexual experimenting, and I would consider it a pretty underhanded move to then guilt me about going along with it.
Haven't gotten this banter because Halsin never leaves camp. It sounds like the problem isn't poly, but that the game is terminally horny. Which has been a focal point of irritation in many other threads on different issues in this game, from companions to dialogue options to event triggers to NPCs to banter.
Remember the human (This is a forum for a video game):
I am once again challenging Facebook Group lurkers to single combat.
My only opinion on this topic is that poly should be something actively pursued by the player, not the default setting. I mean this in no way as a judgment on people who partake in this type of life; I simply think most people would prefer the mono setting as standard with the option to switch to poly.
Well, if you remove everything where the player isn't actively pursuing or suggesting some form of sexual experimenting, the only thing that occurs are three lines of banter between SH and Halsin. Given that all of the companions seem horny most of the time and unashamedly brings this up at every opportunity (I am looking at YOU Gale, take a hint!), I don't feel that the writing really wrestled the reins out of the player's hands on this one. Everything stays the same between the main character and SH for the rest of the story as long as you don't pursue something, so I would say that the relationship is monogamous by default.
If my partner took me along to a pair of sex workers and initiated a discussion about exchanging sexual favours, I'd take that as a pretty strong hint that they are up for some sexual experimenting, and I would consider it a pretty underhanded move to then guilt me about going along with it.
Haven't gotten this banter because Halsin never leaves camp. It sounds like the problem isn't poly, but that the game is terminally horny. Which has been a focal point of irritation in many other threads on different issues in this game, from companions to dialogue options to event triggers to NPCs to banter.
I never got the banter either, because I didn't remove the shadow curse, so Halsin had to stay behind. Just going with the statements given in the thread.
I do like my companions slutty and horny all the time, but I can see where it may not be everyone's cup of tea
I haven't encountered this yet because I'm only just now getting into a playthrough where I'm taking Halsin along, but it does sound like it's in poor taste to force that on a player.
If I was in a monogamous relationship with someone who suddenly wanted a foursome with my buddy and a couple of prostitutes, I would be single. That is an enormous character flaw.
I suppose it's all a matter of taste. I think my enjoyment of the game would have been enhanced if it were slightly less preoccupied with sex and sexuality in every other moment and spent more time on other features of human relationships and interpersonal dynamics. The romances and moments of emotional intimacy are nice sequences to offer the player character as a means of developing both the PC and one or more companions, but outside of that, I felt Baldur's Gate 3 was a bit too horny for my tastes. If other people are enjoying it, however, more power to them.
Remember the human (This is a forum for a video game):
I suppose it's all a matter of taste. I think my enjoyment of the game would have been enhanced if it were slightly less preoccupied with sex and sexuality in every other moment and spent more time on other features of human relationships and interpersonal dynamics. The romances and moments of emotional intimacy are nice sequences to offer the player character as a means of developing both the PC and one or more companions, but outside of that, I felt Baldur's Gate 3 was a bit too horny for my tastes. If other people are enjoying it, however, more power to them.
That makes a lot of sense. I want emotional depth, comradery, sisterhood and companionship as well. Give me everything, including the naughty
I suppose it's all a matter of taste. I think my enjoyment of the game would have been enhanced if it were slightly less preoccupied with sex and sexuality in every other moment and spent more time on other features of human relationships and interpersonal dynamics. The romances and moments of emotional intimacy are nice sequences to offer the player character as a means of developing both the PC and one or more companions, but outside of that, I felt Baldur's Gate 3 was a bit too horny for my tastes. If other people are enjoying it, however, more power to them.
I can see valid points from all sides when it comes to all of this, but I seriously don't know what game you all are playing if you're experiencing so much sex that it gets distracting. I mean, there's hundreds of conversations between companions, between Tav and companions, and plenty of scenes and I'd say more than 90% of companion interactions are non-sexual. I get that some people don't want romance, some want more, some less, some in other ways, some want more friendship, but really, it's not THAT much sexual content considering the amount of hours of gameplay there is in this game. Reading the threads around here make it sound like it's some sort of sex game.
So, like...can anyone tell me what game you're actually playing, asking for a friend
I suppose it's all a matter of taste. I think my enjoyment of the game would have been enhanced if it were slightly less preoccupied with sex and sexuality in every other moment and spent more time on other features of human relationships and interpersonal dynamics. The romances and moments of emotional intimacy are nice sequences to offer the player character as a means of developing both the PC and one or more companions, but outside of that, I felt Baldur's Gate 3 was a bit too horny for my tastes. If other people are enjoying it, however, more power to them.
I can see valid points from all sides when it comes to all of this, but I seriously don't know what game you all are playing if you're experiencing so much sex that it gets distracting. I mean, there's hundreds of conversations between companions, between Tav and companions, and plenty of scenes and I'd say more than 90% of companion interactions are non-sexual. I get that some people don't want romance, some want more, some less, some in other ways, some want more friendship, but really, it's not THAT much sexual content considering the amount of hours of gameplay there is in this game. Reading the threads around here make it sound like it's some sort of sex game.
So, like...can anyone tell me what game you're actually playing, asking for a friend
I’m probably not the person to make this point to, as my complaint is that it’s a slight annoyance, rather than a game breaking sexperience. Other folks in the general sub forum have bigger issues than I do.
But 10% is a lot not in itself, but compared to the historic norm it is. 20 years ago, it was 0%. 10 years ago, maybe 5%. I’d say the biggest issue is with the main way to relate to characters being locked behind romance sequences, and some rather on the nose script moments, but that’s more Larian writing lacking subtlety than anything else.
Characters hit on each other in banter more than other prior RPGs. Think you’re into them than prior RPGS. Come onto you more than prior RPGs. Some NPCs (even outside the brothel) prioritize sex in conversation when other plot points should take precedence (looking at Aylin, but Aylin also has a terminal case of Paladin-Brain, so it’s a bit better).
Sharess has 4-5 unique prostitute encounters, one involving multiple companions.
Ogre and bugbear sequence.
Emperor romance sequence, even if you decline.
Halsin being a sex slave for 2 years, casually.
Some of the goblins have pretty sus dialogue outcomes.
Trying to solve a murder? Get told you’re a sub in need of punishment.
Araj Oblodora being Astarion’s main character moment in Moonrise. Not overtly sexual, but definitely has undertones.
Mizora.
Last edited by Zerubbabel; 11/09/2308:09 PM.
Remember the human (This is a forum for a video game):
You are always free to say, "no" or to pick other dialogue choices making clear your intent to keep things on the 'friend' level instead of romantic.
Some want more, some want less, some want none. Can't keep everyone happy - personally I think they got it just right for the vast majority of those that will play the game.
You are of course free to hold your own opinions, but calling this game-breaking is a bit overstating the issue. You can always say, "no".
You are always free to say, "no" or to pick other dialogue choices making clear your intent to keep things on the 'friend' level instead of romantic.
Some want more, some want less, some want none. Can't keep everyone happy - personally I think they got it just right for the vast majority of those that will play the game.
You are of course free to hold your own opinions, but calling this game-breaking is a bit overstating the issue. You can always say, "no".
I didn’t call it game-breaking. I specifically said it wasn’t game-breaking, just slightly annoying.
Edit: Also, I didn’t put down the list to say it was all horrible.
-I said it was a matter of personal taste and the game was somewhat too horny for me. -Response to me said the game wasn’t horny. -I provide examples of the game being horny. -You said “Just say no.”
I AM saying no. Game is excellent, just slightly too horny for my personal tastes, and there are the examples.
Last edited by Zerubbabel; 11/09/2308:16 PM.
Remember the human (This is a forum for a video game):
I can't speak for others but for me the problem isn't in the amount of sexual encounters this game has but in the way it was all handled. When I play BG3 I cannot but feel its overreliance on sex/sexuality while not deepening other aspects of the game and human relationships/interpersonal dynamics like Zerubbabel mentioned in one of their previous posts.
Maybe it comes from Larians lack of subtlety mixed with not so stellar writing but outside of the main quest everything comes of as a joke. Its serious moments, its deeper moments are overshadowed by the constant barrage of sex jokes/sexual innuendos.
Add to that the mistake of making all of the companions player sexual and you've got yourself a sexually charged mess.
Romances have their place in RPGs but doing them the right way is not going to be easy, they are complex and if you ignore that you end up with what Larian gave us.
Papercut_ninja - I don't think the issue is with flirty banter or the player driven brothel scene in itself but more with that flirty banter happening after the relationship between the MC and the companion was already established and the words spoken during the brothel scene.
As for your statement of liking/wanting companions to be slutty and horny all the time lol, I think we're gonna disagree on that one but more power to you
I think Shadowheart it's okay with an open relationship (hooking up with other people) but not a polyamorous relationship (having relationship with someonelse). We can argue that some thing should be said BEFORE starting a relationship (she is hurt if you hook up with Mizora because you didn't ask her), but I don't think she is written as "poly" because of Halsin. The reason why only with Halsin you can have a sort of poly relationship it's probably because the possible combination among companions were too many. They could have handled it better, but I think they wrote SH as ok with open relationship... because that's who she is, simply enough. But I agree that the player should be able to discuss this with the romanced partner (even just talking with SH and telling her that "You want to be 100% exclusive, no hook up or exception admitted" would be good. She seems okay either way actually).
The writers had no problem in writing strictly monogamous characters (Laezel, Gale, Wyll), if they wanted that for SH they would've done it.
I can't speak for others but for me the problem isn't in the amount of sexual encounters this game has but in the way it was all handled. When I play BG3 I cannot but feel its overreliance on sex/sexuality while not deepening other aspects of the game and human relationships/interpersonal dynamics like Zerubbabel mentioned in one of their previous posts.
Maybe it comes from Larians lack of subtlety mixed with not so stellar writing but outside of the main quest everything comes of as a joke. Its serious moments, its deeper moments are overshadowed by the constant barrage of sex jokes/sexual innuendos.
Add to that the mistake of making all of the companions player sexual and you've got yourself a sexually charged mess.
Romances have their place in RPGs but doing them the right way is not going to be easy, they are complex and if you ignore that you end up with what Larian gave us.
Papercut_ninja - I don't think the issue is with flirty banter or the player driven brothel scene in itself but more with that flirty banter happening after the relationship between the MC and the companion was already established and the words spoken during the brothel scene.
As for your statement of liking/wanting companions to be slutty and horny all the time lol, I think we're gonna disagree on that one but more power to you
I am over in the camp where in an imaginary world you can have both sexual tension as well as other deep story arcs and relationships. Whether the writing did that well or not I guess is up to personal taste. I can roll with having a character that is sensitve, romantic and horny at the same time.
I think Shadowheart it's okay with an open relationship (hooking up with other people) but not a polyamorous relationship (having relationship with someonelse). We can argue that some thing should be said BEFORE starting a relationship (she is hurt if you hook up with Mizora because you didn't ask her), but I don't think she is written as "poly" because of Halsin. The reason why only with Halsin you can have a sort of poly relationship it's probably because the possible combination among companions were too many. They could have handled it better, but I think they wrote SH as ok with open relationship... because that's who she is, simply enough. But I agree that the player should be able to discuss this with the romanced partner (even just talking with SH and telling her that "You want to be 100% exclusive, no hook up or exception admitted" would be good. She seems okay either way actually).
The writers had no problem in writing strictly monogamous characters (Laezel, Gale, Wyll), if they wanted that for SH they would've done it.
I think some may be conflating Shart’s apprehension about emotional vulnerability and a committed relationship with a lack of interest in physical and social “exploration.” She has many lines indicating her interest in more creative experiences, but is slow to open up to the PC, as it is a more emotional experience she has in mind. I don’t think it is a contradiction of character. Poorly handled and lacking in consideration of player agency, maybe, but not a contradiction.
Remember the human (This is a forum for a video game):
You are always free to say, "no" or to pick other dialogue choices making clear your intent to keep things on the 'friend' level instead of romantic.
Some want more, some want less, some want none. Can't keep everyone happy - personally I think they got it just right for the vast majority of those that will play the game.
You are of course free to hold your own opinions, but calling this game-breaking is a bit overstating the issue. You can always say, "no".
I think outside of a small minority, no one thinks it's game-breaking. But, as you can see on this and other threads some of us think it's not that well done. Some of the points the devs have addressed already, but basically it comes down to:
- Romance/sex giving you a lot of extra content in terms of scenes and dialogue you can't get otherwise. Friendship, group camaraderie, even banter is fa less well developed. - At the start of the game it often feels forced/immersion breaking that literally everyone is hitting on you (you can decline, but it's still a bit weird). Personally for me -
even the Emperor
hitting on you half undressed was almost comically, cringe writing. It had to laugh. A real WTF moment.
It still love the game, I think it's great. I'm on my third playthrough (one Tav, one resisting Durge, and one evil Durge so far), but in my view it would have been better if they focused a bit less on romance and a bit more on other personal relationship types and group interactions. There is not telling if they got it just right for the vast majority of those that will play the game. It could be, but as long as we don't have data on that, it's hard to say either way.
The thing that made me stop playing was Shadowheart and Halsin. I didn't even get to the part were she basically admits to you she likes him more than you (again, for what I've read, I haven't got that far), stopped mid act-2 after reading a couple of posts like this one.
Why in a ROLEPLAY game, where you're supposed to immerse yourself with your character and the story will something like this happen? Specially with those two characters. Most people (I assumed) will want to keep her on their party. Not just for her looks but also her storyline. Not to mention that after the prologue, she's (possibly) the first character you'll see. And Halsin is FORCED to join you. I never want him in my party. I play these types of games with a 2 people party set-up, so I did in DOS2 and so was doing here. It's a bit harder but is what makes it fun. Why would you force the interaction OP mentioned? I'm not supposed to explore the world (as far as I know, this happens on a brothel) to avoid this? It almost seems like a punishment for exploring to those who romanced SH and got Halsin on their party. Why put the polygamy shit to begin with? Those are very sensitive topics, not to be treated loosely on a videogame. At least in my opinion, of course.
Again, not to cry about a videogame but it kinda felt wrong, evil even. And I read she does that AFTER you finished her quest, is that real? Then is like, "I've used you and I don't need you anymore, F U". Doesn't seems to be a bug or a mistake, it's seems to be by design.
The biggest problem to me is that this is a ROLEPLAYING videogame, a niche. People who like this type of games like to immerse themselves in the fantasy, that's why you're roleplaying. And then she goes and do that, without the player consent? it kinda makes you not want to roleplay if you were doing it. It's a 180 to her character arc. The mistery and secretive character, who seems to guard her feeling from anyone. It's secretly a whore? lol. This outcome wasn't foreshadow (to my knowledge), otherwise I would't picked neither her nor would've saved Halsin.
Anyways, enough crying for pixels. lol. It even feels weird to complain about this. I need to touch some grass. Won't be playing the game in a long time (this type of games demand lots of your time). Sorry if somehow Ibsounded disrespectful. I was just annoyed that for what OP explained, I'll have to delete my save file.
To be fair, with all those bugs still in the game I wouldn't be surprised if this is just a false romance flag turned on that would only be active if your character is in a relationship with both Shadowheart and Halsin. It still sucks to read it, I don't think Astarion has lines like this where he fantasizes about Halsin. But you don't have to kill Halsin - you can just keep him in the camp and don't take him with you. Then the banter shouldn't come up. Yes, it is in the game, but like a lot of other dialog that you will only see under certain conditions it doesn't mean if you don't see it in your playthrough that it is still "canon" that it happened.
Still, nothing wrong in letting Larian know how this makes people feel. It will take a while but I still plan to romance Shadowheart in a future playthrough, but I will certainly not visit the brothel with her and Halsin....
To be fair, with all those bugs still in the game I wouldn't be surprised if this is just a false romance flag turned on that would only be active if your character is in a relationship with both Shadowheart and Halsin. It still sucks to read it, I don't think Astarion has lines like this where he fantasizes about Halsin. But you don't have to kill Halsin - you can just keep him in the camp and don't take him with you. Then the banter shouldn't come up. Yes, it is in the game, but like a lot of other dialog that you will only see under certain conditions it doesn't mean if you don't see it in your playthrough that it is still "canon" that it happened.
Still, nothing wrong in letting Larian know how this makes people feel. It will take a while but I still plan to romance Shadowheart in a future playthrough, but I will certainly not visit the brothel with her and Halsin....
Who knows but it doesn't looks like that. As OP showed, she's flirting literally after being with you, and that's another thing, characters flirting after being in a relationship with MC?
It doesn't seems to be a bug but bad/evil game design. Plus bugs doesn't work that way, they'll usually happen to a group of people, not everyone. In all the posts I've seeing people complaining about it, there's not even a single person that said they got a different answer or reaction. It's being made intentionally. Or so it seems to me.
I play games for entertainment, not to end up in a fetish/cheating plot. And as I said, is specifically cruel in a roleplay game.
But whatever, when I decide to play again she's gonna invade my camp and unfortunately die in the process and Halsin is gonna get killed by goblins.
I really thought this game would have been one for the ages, but I'm not so sure anymore (and not just for this situation with Shadowheart).
Some of the things you write seem to be not entirely true. Halsin isn't really forced onto you. You can kill him if you want as you write yourself, the game works just fine if you do.
Even if you have him in your camp, you do not have to have him in your party. I never took him along, so I never got the scene and dialogue between SH and him. If I'm not mistaken, you anyway would only get the scene for a foursome if you first ask for that yourself. If you shut down those drow from the start (or because seen from a PG POV, you are in a relationship as you say, maybe don't approach them at all, because it's clear they are prostitutes), you also wouldn't get that scene, even if you have Halsin in your party, or?
At that point of the story, Halsin's main part if over anyway, so even if you want a druid in your party, you can take Jaheira instead (who has more interactions in Act 3 anyway afaik).
If you romance SH, and you do not make a certain decision in the game to push her to wholly dedicate herself to someone else (but which is probably the most prior telegraphed plot point in the game, so no surprise there), she will not abandon you in the end. If I remember the ending correctly, it's the opposite, you kind of make plans what you'll do together after this is all over.
I also don't think it's ideal, but if you are bothered by it, you can avoid most of it.
I'm usually not active on social media and forums. But, for some reason, this thread and others have become a laughing stock on facebook bg3 groups by a community that calls itself inclusive and welcoming. So, since any words of criticism were called incels' crying and kinksshaming, I decided to add my two cents too. To get the whole picture, three facts need to be stated. First of all I was really looking forward to the release of this game and had a great time until the third act.I don't remember the last time I was so interested in anything. Secondly, I decided to romance Shadowheart only because I saw another thread about her not agreeing to polygamy. And finally, my ex-wife cheated on me over 2 years ago. When I finished the Shadowheart quest and saw her banter with Halsin, I thought it was strange but I didn't care much about it. Unfortunately, as fate would have it, when I met the drow twins, I had Halsin on my team. You must understand that the game absorbed me so much that after completing the conversation, I often reloaded to see what other dialogue options looked like. For some unknown reason when Larian decided to throw it in my face that even my fictional in-game character wasn't enough to satisfy the person he was involved with, the trauma, fears and insecurities I thought I had overcome resurfaced. Fortunately, only for a moment. But I was so embarrassed by my reaction that I didn't even check if others were also bothered by it.Two weeks have passed and I still can't bring myself to play the game again. For me, games have always been a safe haven that allowed me to break away from the gray everyday life. It seems those days are over. Even though I probably won't finish the game, I wanted to thank you all for deciding to raise this topic, thanks to which I could accidentally end up here. Knowing that even people without life baggage found this scene disturbing is... easing. Since there are people here who decided to give very enlightened advice about relationships, I will also give you one. If you are ever in a relationship and your partner starts behaving in a similar way, not as primitive as here, I don't know how shameless you would have to be to do as the writer presented it, but if you start to feel that you are a third wheel in conversations and your partner starts talking too much about who they like. This is not a flag but a horn from hell that this relationship is over and your partner is simply too much of a coward to face you. I don't wish anyone to feel this indescribable feeling when you are betrayed by the person you loved the most and I'm sorry you had to read yet another post from a crying incel.
Hey Man, I truly understand how you feel. I was romancing Shadowheart as well, and was so engrossed in her story that I really took my time to play and enjoy the game. I have seen so much crazy things in this world, relationship-wise that I for once want a good happy ending story. I also find gaming as a way to escape reality, and find solace from the fk ups of this world. Perhaps the ability to do that in game, based on the choices we the players make, is the driving force for me to continue playing the game and actually enjoy the game- to get the journey and ending we want. I did the same thing as you did, I save the game to explore other options, out of curiosity, but I always go back to my 'timeline', to pick the decisions I actually want. And let me tell you, when I was in that Brothel scene, and figured out there is no way to avoid that SH interaction with the drow twins or with Halsin, instead of probably not going to the Brothel, or even just killing Halsin. And the fact that it throws it in my face that SH is actually the opposite of what I thought she would be. Because when you do explore her story enough she becomes so loving and caring and will only want to be with you. And I imagine myself being with someone, who shares the same ideals, I would want to be with someone who cares and be as loving as her, in dark times, through thick and thin, fairy tail ending-stuff like that... But during that scene, everything just went out of the window and she did a complete 180. And I feel so betrayed. After that I could not bear to continue playing the game anymore. Like the desire I have to actually finish the game, and the enjoyment I get from it is no longer there. And yes, I am also glad I have somewhere I can post my thoughts about this, so I am glad to be in this forum, and seeing there are other people who have the same perspective as I do, makes me feel a bit better. But I am telling you, for 4 weeks now, I have not been feeling myself, anymore. I do not have the desire to do anything, my motivation just plummeted. I am not doing good at work. And at home I basically do nothing as well. I try to distract myself by playing other games or by entertaining myself with other media such as reading or watching movies, anime, but none are enjoyable to me. I guess one of the factors is that there are barely other games that can compare to BG3 as far as immersion, and I got too deep into the immersion part but got so disappointed at the end. I hope you find solace, the same way as I did, knowing that you are not alone, we are not alone. Hopefully, time will help us forget this, and that the future will hold something bright for us.
The thing that made me stop playing was Shadowheart and Halsin. I didn't even get to the part were she basically admits to you she likes him more than you (again, for what I've read, I haven't got that far), stopped mid act-2 after reading a couple of posts like this one.
Why in a ROLEPLAY game, where you're supposed to immerse yourself with your character and the story will something like this happen? Specially with those two characters. Most people (I assumed) will want to keep her on their party. Not just for her looks but also her storyline. Not to mention that after the prologue, she's (possibly) the first character you'll see. And Halsin is FORCED to join you. I never want him in my party. I play these types of games with a 2 people party set-up, so I did in DOS2 and so was doing here. It's a bit harder but is what makes it fun. Why would you force the interaction OP mentioned? I'm not supposed to explore the world (as far as I know, this happens on a brothel) to avoid this? It almost seems like a punishment for exploring to those who romanced SH and got Halsin on their party. Why put the polygamy shit to begin with? Those are very sensitive topics, not to be treated loosely on a videogame. At least in my opinion, of course.
Again, not to cry about a videogame but it kinda felt wrong, evil even. And I read she does that AFTER you finished her quest, is that real? Then is like, "I've used you and I don't need you anymore, F U". Doesn't seems to be a bug or a mistake, it's seems to be by design.
The biggest problem to me is that this is a ROLEPLAYING videogame, a niche. People who like this type of games like to immerse themselves in the fantasy, that's why you're roleplaying. And then she goes and do that, without the player consent? it kinda makes you not want to roleplay if you were doing it. It's a 180 to her character arc. The mistery and secretive character, who seems to guard her feeling from anyone. It's secretly a whore? lol. This outcome wasn't foreshadow (to my knowledge), otherwise I would't picked neither her nor would've saved Halsin.
Anyways, enough crying for pixels. lol. It even feels weird to complain about this. I need to touch some grass. Won't be playing the game in a long time (this type of games demand lots of your time). Sorry if somehow Ibsounded disrespectful. I was just annoyed that for what OP explained, I'll have to delete my save file.
Well said man! I could not agree more. It's actually worse if you have been deep, and immersed, in her story already and figured it out too late. I wish I could do the same in game and "load" to an earlier time when I have not started playing or have known about this game at all, knowing it would turn out this way...
The last two posts, jesus. I mean I don't like that she agrees to it either and I'd like it to be rewritten but at the same time this is optional. I went to the brothel, talked to the Drow twins, told them no thanks, and that was the end of it, Shadowheart didn't say a word. If an exclusive relationship is what you were looking for I don't know why you're trying to sleep with the Drow twins in the first place. My take on it is it's something she'll agree to because it's what her significant other wants but not something she's looking for since she never asks you to do it herself and if you want to have an exclusive, monogamous relationship together she's happy to do that.
The last two posts, jesus. I mean I don't like that she agrees to it either and I'd like it to be rewritten but at the same time this is optional. I went to the brothel, talked to the Drow twins, told them no thanks, and that was the end of it, Shadowheart didn't say a word. If an exclusive relationship is what you were looking for I don't know why you're trying to sleep with the Drow twins in the first place. My take on it is it's something she'll agree to because it's what her significant other wants but not something she's looking for since she never asks you to do it herself and if you want to have an exclusive, monogamous relationship together she's happy to do that.
Like I wrote earlier. Imagine your partner taking you to a sex club and initiating an exchange of sexual favours with some sex workers and asking if you want to join. So you agree that if that's what they really want, you are down with getting a bit freaky and exploring some fantasies with other people (and before someone chimes in that this happens out of the blue, do note that this takes several conscious and very clear choices in a dialogue tree to get to). Then they turn that against you, judging you and giving you a guilt trip of shame about it. They are obviously the problem if they pull this sort of emotional entrapment stunt on you, not you!
Now I have personal boundaries around anything that relates to traficking, and for that reason I won't ever make the choice in a game to buy sexual favours. I know this is a trigger for me, so as soon as the option appeared I declined and moved on (I don't have any issues that it exists in a setting, but engaging with it feels very wrong to me). I didn't continue exploring it, out of curiosity or some other strange psychological compulsion, just so I could get triggered and plunge myself into some deep black hole of horrible feelings.
The last two posts, jesus. I mean I don't like that she agrees to it either and I'd like it to be rewritten but at the same time this is optional. I went to the brothel, talked to the Drow twins, told them no thanks, and that was the end of it, Shadowheart didn't say a word. If an exclusive relationship is what you were looking for I don't know why you're trying to sleep with the Drow twins in the first place. My take on it is it's something she'll agree to because it's what her significant other wants but not something she's looking for since she never asks you to do it herself and if you want to have an exclusive, monogamous relationship together she's happy to do that.
100% agree on your take with how shadowheart reacts, also bolstered by the fact she doesnt say anything until you explicitly agree to the foursome, i rejected the idea from the onset and she never says a word nor does she approve or disapprove. Hell the most I did with the drow twins is ask them about their background and shit (and slept with the sister out of curiosity but f8'd after). The only problem bit is the halsin related stuff, but i assume the dialogue especially the party banter (which i never got cause Halsin never left camp after act 2) is bugged and meant for if you have entered a shared relationship with the 2 beforehand. Honestly might be worth a bug report to save me the trauma in future playthroughs.
Last edited by Neion4ty7; 13/09/2305:20 AM. Reason: add some text to the end.
Some of the things you write seem to be not entirely true. Halsin isn't really forced onto you. You can kill him if you want as you write yourself, the game works just fine if you do.
Even if you have him in your camp, you do not have to have him in your party. I never took him along, so I never got the scene and dialogue between SH and him. If I'm not mistaken, you anyway would only get the scene for a foursome if you first ask for that yourself. If you shut down those drow from the start (or because seen from a PG POV, you are in a relationship as you say, maybe don't approach them at all, because it's clear they are prostitutes), you also wouldn't get that scene, even if you have Halsin in your party, or?
At that point of the story, Halsin's main part if over anyway, so even if you want a druid in your party, you can take Jaheira instead (who has more interactions in Act 3 anyway afaik).
If you romance SH, and you do not make a certain decision in the game to push her to wholly dedicate herself to someone else (but which is probably the most prior telegraphed plot point in the game, so no surprise there), she will not abandon you in the end. If I remember the ending correctly, it's the opposite, you kind of make plans what you'll do together after this is all over.
I also don't think it's ideal, but if you are bothered by it, you can avoid most of it.
My fault, I wrote 'I didn't want him in my party', I meant camp. And yes, to me Halsin is forced, in the same way that Withers is forced, basically if we dont get to choose them (like every other companion), they are forced. Since we can't kick any of them out...
About 'killing him and the game works fine', you're right; I think you can also kill every NPC and the game will works just fine as well, though I'll probably wouldn't do it (maybe if I'm evil Dark Urge?). And that takes me to my point:
This is a ROLEPLAY game. Everything from dialogue, fight, your character, and probably more stuff; are rooted in a roleplay system. Interactions, not trigger by the Main Character, are bad for a ROLEPLAY game.
That's where everything breaks apart to me. I didn't delete my saved file, with all my hours, because I was simping SH (which I wasn't doing); I deleted it because the story I was building with her (with rules and plot established by the game) were broken by her being in love with Halsin.
The Shadowheart that was surviving with my Tav (good Dark Urge) was not what was portrayed by OP post, I didn't even care if she's poly or not, she's not real. But the roleplay factor was gone to me.
Why will the Shadowheart that my Tav was struggling so hard to survive with (I was playing Tactician, with only 2 characters) and that loved him/her so much will want to share him/her when her quest is over? For this to be acceptable, in a roleplay view, Tav should have tried to or already being in a relationship with the other lover.
To be fair, those are my stupid rules. And I know not a lot of people roleplay these games. But to me, that's where the fun is. I could have ignored it and keep playing but as I said, this are the only games that I roleplay. I want to life my little fantasy without a bear trying to bang my partner. lol
But I think we all can agreed that the dialogue lines OP was complaining about are totally OUT OF HER CHARACTER (at least what was shown to us through her conversations).
She's like: 'Halsin, bang me! Tav heals my heart and you dirty my p***y'. That's just wrong.
Disclaimer: I haven't played any of this myself, I've seeing couple of post about it and have generally of how to trigger it but I myself haven't played it.
PS: this is the nerdiest post I've wrote in my life.
Edit: forgot to mention that if MC hasn't shown interest in another lover, and you ended up talking with the drow at the brothel (because you know, videogames), ideally not just Shadowheart but any other partner, that already 'loves you', shouldn't be open to share you. Or at least, show some kind of selfcontrol (to respect of Tav relationship) if they themselves are into polygamy. But anyone, we're talking and only developers know how hard has to be trying to implement any of these stuff. They should hate us. lol
ignoring the halsin stuff ( the one party banter line and what she says in the 5some) which is obviously some writers pet shit and completely out of character assuming she is romanced, nothing is said by the party member about sharing when talking to the drow unless you actually accept the proposal brought up by the drow twins, only after that does anyone including halsin speak.
As for why shadowheart would agree, potionbeans interpretation works best and very much is in line with her character, also she spent her whole life trying to appease shar and mother superior she will do the same for tav, its why she doesnt dump your ass for cheating but says to ask her in advance and mentions past experiences(to make it even and possiblly stir you up) or declares her non jealousy(she is) all in a disapproving tone while putting on a strong front. Though, reading reddit it seems people actually think she was fine with you sleeping with mizora and cant read tones, lots of annoyed gfs if they have any... You are possibly the only loved one in her life, she would rather share you than face the possibility of losing you over a fling or foursome(ok she was kinda enthusiastic about this one but girls can have fantasies as well, but its up to you if it stays one and its not like we wouldnt jump on a ffm threesome/ fffm foursome if she propositioned us about one).
She will gladly break up with you though before nightsong cause she is still split between you and shar.
Last edited by Neion4ty7; 13/09/2306:32 AM. Reason: fixed some typos and added text
ignoring the halsin stuff ( the one party banter line and what she says in the 5some) which is obviously some writers pet shit and completely out of character assuming she is romanced, nothing is said by the party member about sharing when talking to the drow unless you actually accept the proposal brought up by the drow twins, only after that does anyone including halsin speak.
As for why shadowheart would agree, potionbeans interpretation works best and very much is in line with her character, she spent her whole life trying to appease shar and mother superior she will do the same for tav, its why she doesnt dump your ass for cheating but says to ask her in advance and mentions past experiences(to make it even and possible stir you up) or declares her non jealousy(she is) all in a disapproving tone while putting on a strong front. The brackets are there cause reading reddit it seems people actually think she was fine with you sleeping with mizora and cant read tones...
Yes, she is emotionally traumatised. After a certain point in the relationship she would let Tav stomp on her face as long as it made them happy. She will agree to every whim that strikes Tav as long as she gets to keep them close. She is the cuckold in the standard Tav-Halsin-Shadowheart poly romance where she urges Tav to sleep with him and then tell her about it. She has all the red flags of someone who could end up in a really bad abusive relationship and the type of bff that I would keep a very close eye on and try to protect from getting involved in a destructive relationship.
And how someone would come to the conclusion that she has a stronger attraction to Halsin based of three lines of banter out of some cheesy harlequin novel, compared to the hundreds of lines of dialogue where she throws herself at Tav seems a tad bit...insecure...
It's kinda big to ignore 'the Halsin stuff, I think they should do something with that wild bear, I've seeing others people post about him.
I low-key think Shadowheart "canonically" is a bit of a w**re. It would honestly fit her too well, she constantly says Tav that someone could take advantage of our kindness, trickery domain cleric, and the "bugged" most explicit flirting I've seeing in this game AFTER having sex with Tav (as far as I know, haven't done it myself).
It's kinda big to ignore 'the Halsin stuff, I think they should do something with that wild bear, I've seeing others people post about him.
I low-key think Shadowheart "canonically" is a bit of a w**re. It would honestly fit her too well, she constantly says Tav that someone could take advantage of our kindness, trickery domain cleric, and the "bugged" most explicit flirting I've seeing in this game AFTER having sex with Tav (as far as I know, haven't done it myself).
I think she manipulated us till the end.
What game have you been playing where that is the most explicit flirting you have encountered? I think even Withers comes off as more explicitly flirty to me than that at times.
But maybe that is just because as you may now know me as the happy $lut gamer by now, I've probably clicked all the naughty options
Look at OP post, something about a bear (again) wanting to have fun (if your lover wants, of course), water, and someone getting over her head about a buoyant bear.
It's kinda big to ignore 'the Halsin stuff, I think they should do something with that wild bear, I've seeing others people post about him.
I low-key think Shadowheart "canonically" is a bit of a w**re. It would honestly fit her too well, she constantly says Tav that someone could take advantage of our kindness, trickery domain cleric, and the "bugged" most explicit flirting I've seeing in this game AFTER having sex with Tav (as far as I know, haven't done it myself).
I think she manipulated us till the end.
lil bro needs to lay off the ntr doujins.....
Dude women fantasize as well, she meets Halsin before the romance really starts its not weird that she might have fantasized about a tall hunky literal sex icon character before devoting to tav( hell she has some dialogue thirsting about karlach when you first meet her as well) in the same way I as the player am tempted to try a tour of the hells with mizora or see what the female drow has to offer, the difference like in real life is if they act on it or feel more strongly about it than their thoughts about you.. As papercut ninja says, it's a bit insecure to throw the whole relationship away over it, as much as that post swim party banter pisses me off as well.
And yeah the w**re part, well she does mention lots of casual sharran brand socialization if you cheat on her with mizora which would have bothered me like morrigans mentioning her having sex with men casually in DOA did back in the day, but like her they are very much devoted to you when you romance them, hell shadowheart is even more so if she turns away from shar and she was mind wiped with only fragments of those memories so its not really the same considering she was very much manipulated and mind fucked most of her life.
Look at OP post, something about a bear (again) wanting to have fun (if your lover wants, of course), water, and someone getting over her head about a buoyant bear.
"Depends, are you buoyant? I may need a life preserver if I get in over my head."
That right there is THE most explicit flirting in the entire game?
Did you play some celibate background that changes all of the first two acts that I don't know about?
It's kinda big to ignore 'the Halsin stuff, I think they should do something with that wild bear, I've seeing others people post about him.
I low-key think Shadowheart "canonically" is a bit of a w**re. It would honestly fit her too well, she constantly says Tav that someone could take advantage of our kindness, trickery domain cleric, and the "bugged" most explicit flirting I've seeing in this game AFTER having sex with Tav (as far as I know, haven't done it myself).
I think she manipulated us till the end.
lil bro needs to lay off the ntr doujins.....
Dude women fantasize as well, she meets Halsin before the romance really starts its not weird that she might have fantasized about a tall hunky literal sex icon character before devoting to tav( hell she has some dialogue thirsting about karlach when you first meet her as well) in the same way I as the player am tempted to try a tour of the hells with mizora or see what the female drow has to offer, the difference like in real life is if they act on it or feel more strongly about it than their thoughts about you.. As papercut ninja says, it's a bit insecure to throw the whole relationship away over it, as much as that post swim party banter pisses me off as well.
And yeah the w**re part, well she does mention lots of casual sharran brand socialization if you cheat on her with mizora which would have bothered me like morrigans mentioning her having sex with men casually in DOA did back in the day, but like her they are very much devoted to you when you romance them, hell shadowheart is even more so if she turns away from shar and she was mind wiped with only fragments of those memories so its not really the same considering she was very much manipulated and mind fucked most of her life.
I never even implied women don't fantasize, I complain about the flirting because supposedly happens after she's devoted to Tav.
And I just pointed out, that it could be very posible "canonically" that she'll be that way (without Tav influence). Doesn't mean she is (that' why I said I think).
1. As much as I understand the dislike towards Shadowhearts behavior towards Halsin and trust me I hate it too (I mean I wrote the damn post), don't let it affect your real life. Criticize it, hate on it, let the developers know that you don't want that shit in your games but do remember that its still a game. (Your emotional well being should come first, becoming depressed because of someone's bad fan-fic should never happen.)
2. Now for the fun part. Some people seem to be missing the point it seems. All of these ideas of killing Halsin, keeping him in the camp etc. don't mean shit I'm sorry to say this but the writer made sure that her interest in him is a sure thing no matter what after you complete her romance. Yeah you might say 'I didn't see it, so it didn't happen' but you could also not recruit Wyll or not talk to him and then say 'He's a bard from Neverwinter that has no devil patron'.
Not seeing something doesn't change what was tacked on after her romance. (And it was tacked on. Now the question is whether it was malicious or just a victim of a rushed release/rewrites) She still flirts with him after establishing a relationship with the MC (explicit or not, doesn't matter how you want to call it she does it while in a relationship) and the now infamous brothel scene.
Indeed you need to initiate it but what people like to ignore isn't the fact that the player is the one that pushes it all into motion but Shadowhearts reaction to it. Every single companion is either against it or apprehensive while Shadoheart is the only one bursting with enthusiasm at the opportunity to sleep with Halsin. Rejecting that opportunity leads to her showing dislike towards it and if you do decide to take the plunge the whole scene revolves around the two having sex while the MC takes a step back.
So no, its not entirely up to the player whether Shadowheart is thinking of Halsin and fantasizing, what's up to the player is the choice whether you want to know about it or not. So again I ask a question, why would I or anyone else want to go through a romance that establishes one thing only for that thing to be thrown out of the window so that some writers fan-fic could be slapped on at the end.
A lot of people playing games and in real life tend to take issues with their partner obsessing over someone else/flirting with someone else, it has nothing to do with insecurity but everything with self respect.
-To the Red Queen I'm not using this to insult anyone, just pointing out the mentality of the writers and how that might have influenced the writing-
There are other examples but this one is a funny one.
ps. Take some time to enjoy yourself, don't get too upset and hope that they do rewrite it where a character you are romancing doesn't end up being more interested in someone else compared to the MC.
Every single companion is either against it or apprehensive while Shadoheart is the only one bursting with enthusiasm at the opportunity to sleep with Halsin.
I mean, who doesn't burst with enthusiasm at the opportunity to sleep with Halsin..ahem, no, ehh...back to the point, LOL. As a fan of Halsin, or rather the idea of him (his journey from what appears to be a strong steady mature man to horny "stick-my-thing-into-everyone-and-then-some"-guy is just wrong, but that's another discussion entirely), I just find that there's a bit of the same problem here as it is with Halsin himself. There has to be options and player choice here.
If you're in a monogamous relationship with a companion, in this case Shadowheart, it's just weird that the writers decide to make her disappointed when denied the option to sleep with someone else. That's just wrong. There are certainly instances where such a reaction might be valid and for some players it might fit, but that should sort of still be the players choice. And SH should for sure not thirst for Halsin AFTER having committed themselves to the player char.
It should be a rather easy fix, and one I hope Larian makes. And to be fair, like I said, Halsin himself deserves a proper fix too, writer did him dirty. So don't kill him just because SH can't keep her eyes away from those pecks, LOL, it's not his fault the writer was lost in his own fantasies when writing these scenes.
If you're in a monogamous relationship with a companion, in this case Shadowheart, it's just weird that the writers decide to make her disappointed when denied the option to sleep with someone else. That's just wrong. There are certainly instances where such a reaction might be valid and for some players it might fit, but that should sort of still be the players choice.
is it that weird really? You engage your partner in a sex fantasy involving some drow that make you excited. Then when it is suggested that she can have some fantasy fullfilled as well, you deny her. That's a bit selfish. It should work both ways, you get your dirty fantasies and she gets hers. Why is your enjoyment the only one that matters when you decide to bring this experimenting into your relationship? I can see why that gets you a disapproval, though she still goes through with denying herself and doing things your way anyway.
At the point where you take this relationship to a pair of sex workers and suggest sexual experimenting with other people, you are not proposing a monogamous relationship any more. Your actions are your responsibility, the rules of monogamy apply the same to you as to everyone else.
If you're in a monogamous relationship with a companion, in this case Shadowheart, it's just weird that the writers decide to make her disappointed when denied the option to sleep with someone else. That's just wrong. There are certainly instances where such a reaction might be valid and for some players it might fit, but that should sort of still be the players choice.
is it that weird really? You engage your partner in a sex fantasy involving some drow that make you excited. Then when it is suggested that she can have some fantasy fullfilled as well, you deny her. That's a bit selfish. It should work both ways, you get your dirty fantasies and she gets hers. Why is your enjoyment the only one that matters when you decide to bring this experimenting into your relationship? I can see why that gets you a disapproval, though she still goes through with denying herself and doing things your way anyway.
At the point where you take this relationship to a pair of sex workers and suggest sexual experimenting with other people, you are not proposing a monogamous relationship any more. Your actions are your responsibility, the rules of monogamy apply the same to you as to everyone else.
That's kind of my point when I say that it should be player choice. If player wants their character to engage in this drow encounter, then I feel like it should be okay for SH to also enjoy the moment, clearly. She's entitled to her fantasies and if PC is living out theirs, then SH should be able to do so too. What I'm saying is that if player character does NOT want this, and they ultimately say no to the drows because PC feels like they're in a committed relationship with SH and does not want to jeopardize this, then it just feels weird to have Shadowheart disapprove. PC did NOT engage partner in a sex fantasy, they rejected the idea of it because it didn't suit them, and partner gets upset. That's what I mean here.
Having one part in a relationship thirst for someone else and get disappointed that they're not allowed to fulfill their fantasy is grounds for breaking up in my opinion. Fantasies are fine, but not the disapproval.
She can approve of the drow meeting if player engages in it, but I don't think she should disapprove if player doesn't go through with the encounter. A disapproval on the other hand would be valid should the player engage in said encounter without Shadowheart.
- Person you are with is actively flirting with someone else while in a mono relationship - not broaching the topic of sharing/prostitutes.
- Person you are with shows interest in sleeping with someone else before even fully committing to the prostitutes offer and disagrees if you don't go with it.
- Person you are with reveals that while in a relationship they've been constantly salivating and dreaming about someone else.
- Person you are with that tells you they are interested in spicing up their relationship but as long as you are the one they are doing it with proceeds to focus on someone else.
- Person you are with proceeds to ignore you while mainly focusing on having sex with someone else. (the scene the player initiates doesn't end up being a fivesome but a sex scene between Halsin and Shadowheart where the drow twins and the MC are supporting characters)
- Person you are with that said they are not interested in sharing and always wanting more of you suddenly change their mind for someone else they've been fantasizing about.
Damn! I do wonder why people don't like it lol.
Like I said, most of these things (minus the banter - this is hardcoded and will happen as soon as you have both in your party) are up to the player to reveal. But that's it, reveal, not change. She might not sleep with Halsin unless you make it so but no one wants a romance where the partner is just waiting for the opportunity to jump into someone else's arms.
Seeing how both Halsin/Shadowheart share the same writer it is not surprising that he went overboard and overindulged in what he thought might be hot. (Bear memes, zoophilia, polyamory, cheating, Halsin being an overall sex pest after act 1 that hits on everything 'Can I join?' etc. take your pick)
Well my good people of the internet, I think we're beating a dead horse here (I'm not saying that you all have to stop sharing your opinions, please don't misinterpreted my comment). I'm personally out of this discussion, I think we've all made our point clear.
I also think that this problem (if it's a problem at all) should be looked by Larian's team (if they're willing to do it, they don't owe us nothing, we already have the game, though it gives them good press to do it.. ) and if they consider that any of what has been discussed here would improved the game, act upon it.
If anyone got offended by any of my comments, apologies.
When I got a bit of time. I'll play the game again (I didn't stopped playing only because of SH & Halsin, honestly I feel I was playing to much. Maybe that was my excuse to take a break?), however, regardless what we might think or even get to feel to a character, they're just a blender models and wall of codes behind it all.
Have a great day y'all.
PS: Sorry for my bad English, I'm sure there's typos in every comment I made.
That's kind of my point when I say that it should be player choice. If player wants their character to engage in this drow encounter, then I feel like it should be okay for SH to also enjoy the moment, clearly. She's entitled to her fantasies and if PC is living out theirs, then SH should be able to do so too. What I'm saying is that if player character does NOT want this, and they ultimately say no to the drows because PC feels like they're in a committed relationship with SH and does not want to jeopardize this, then it just feels weird to have Shadowheart disapprove. PC did NOT engage partner in a sex fantasy, they rejected the idea of it because it didn't suit them, and partner gets upset. That's what I mean here.
Having one part in a relationship thirst for someone else and get disappointed that they're not allowed to fulfill their fantasy is grounds for breaking up in my opinion. Fantasies are fine, but not the disapproval.
She can approve of the drow meeting if player engages in it, but I don't think she should disapprove if player doesn't go through with the encounter. A disapproval on the other hand would be valid should the player engage in said encounter without Shadowheart.
Let's not re-write how this play out. The dialogue tree brings you to the proposal from the drow to have sex between both of them and you and your partner. At this point you have the clear option to go with "yes" or "no". Shadowheart does not express any interest to go along with this until you actively press "yes" to this proposal, at which point YOU have made the decision to move your relationship away from a monogamous relationship. Only after you have made this decision about your relationship status does horndog Halsin inject himself and the disapproval reactions occur. There are really no confusing flags or messages in this whole scenario, you have made the conscious decision to take your relationship with Shadowheart towards sexually experimenting with others. Her enthusiasm or preferences as to who she wants to include in these sexual games are inconsequential at this point, this is what you wanted!
So based on what you say, I think we agree on this one. What sort of relationship you want with Shadowheart is very much up to the player and there is no scenario where this just happens out of the blue or by accident.
Well my good people of the internet, I think we're beating a dead horse here (I'm not saying that you all have to stop sharing your opinions, please don't misinterpreted my comment). I'm personally out of this discussion, I think we've all made our point clear.
I also think that this problem (if it's a problem at all) should be looked by Larian's team (if they're willing to do it, they don't owe us nothing, we already have the game, though it gives them good press to do it.. ) and if they consider that any of what has been discussed here would improved the game, act upon it.
If anyone got offended by any of my comments, apologies.
When I got a bit of time. I'll play the game again (I didn't stopped playing only because of SH & Halsin, honestly I feel I was playing to much. Maybe that was my excuse to take a break?), however, regardless what we might think or even get to feel to a character, they're just a blender models and wall of codes behind it all.
Have a great day y'all.
PS: Sorry for my bad English, I'm sure there's typos in every comment I made.
No offense taken here. If my arguing was a bit brash at times I did not mean to take you down or anything. I sincerely think you should continue with your save and experience this story, because there are so many really good moments that you will remember. Even if one part ticks you off, don't let that one thing sour your whole experience, it will fade away and you will remember and cherish the good parts.
Every single companion is either against it or apprehensive while Shadoheart is the only one bursting with enthusiasm at the opportunity to sleep with Halsin.
I mean, who doesn't burst with enthusiasm at the opportunity to sleep with Halsin..ahem, no, ehh...back to the point, LOL. As a fan of Halsin, or rather the idea of him (his journey from what appears to be a strong steady mature man to horny "stick-my-thing-into-everyone-and-then-some"-guy is just wrong, but that's another discussion entirely), I just find that there's a bit of the same problem here as it is with Halsin himself. There has to be options and player choice here.
If you're in a monogamous relationship with a companion, in this case Shadowheart, it's just weird that the writers decide to make her disappointed when denied the option to sleep with someone else. That's just wrong. There are certainly instances where such a reaction might be valid and for some players it might fit, but that should sort of still be the players choice. And SH should for sure not thirst for Halsin AFTER having committed themselves to the player char.
It should be a rather easy fix, and one I hope Larian makes. And to be fair, like I said, Halsin himself deserves a proper fix too, writer did him dirty. So don't kill him just because SH can't keep her eyes away from those pecks, LOL, it's not his fault the writer was lost in his own fantasies when writing these scenes.
All they need to do is remove the disapproval(actually after reding papers comments this might be fine) and that one party banter, maybe touch up the dialogue in the actual 5some as well but, that's not something im interested in so maybe its fine with people that are
Last edited by Neion4ty7; 13/09/2303:35 PM. Reason: typo
Well my good people of the internet, I think we're beating a dead horse here (I'm not saying that you all have to stop sharing your opinions, please don't misinterpreted my comment). I'm personally out of this discussion, I think we've all made our point clear.
I also think that this problem (if it's a problem at all) should be looked by Larian's team (if they're willing to do it, they don't owe us nothing, we already have the game, though it gives them good press to do it.. ) and if they consider that any of what has been discussed here would improved the game, act upon it.
If anyone got offended by any of my comments, apologies.
When I got a bit of time. I'll play the game again (I didn't stopped playing only because of SH & Halsin, honestly I feel I was playing to much. Maybe that was my excuse to take a break?), however, regardless what we might think or even get to feel to a character, they're just a blender models and wall of codes behind it all.
Have a great day y'all.
PS: Sorry for my bad English, I'm sure there's typos in every comment I made.
No offense taken here. If my arguing was a bit brash at times I did not mean to take you down or anything. I sincerely think you should continue with your save and experience this story, because there are so many really good moments that you will remember. Even if one part ticks you off, don't let that one thing sour your whole experience, it will fade away and you will remember and cherish the good parts.
That saved file is in the Shadow Realm by now.
I think all these situations could've been easily solved by making relationships between Tav and [insert Companion's name here] reacts more to Tav's decisions. We're the players and even if it sound selfish, we should be able to influence to whatever story we wanted to play on this ROLEPLAY game.
We want to be loyal? It doesn't matter if I go the the brothel and even asked for sex (because this is a game, and sometimes we just want see what will happen), if by that point we haven't flirted or show any type of unloyal behavior through the game, our partner should feel offended (if their monogamous) or surprised (if they're into polygamy). Not to have a character that showed so much romantic and honestly, cliché moments; salivate themselves to other companion, unless said companion is also your lover (if doesn't mather if that lover is big old daddy Halsin, or underrated but without a doubt, sex symbol Withers).
Now if we're an ass*ole through the game, cheat on our partner and are overall a bad person, punished my Tav and turned him into a voyeur.
I also think they should make it as if you're on a serious relationship with a companion, they shouldn't be flirting, and being seductive with anyone.
All of this should have been easier without polygamy, honestly. But I guess that sex and taboos sell. And maybe there's people that enjoy that part of the game (but for what I've read, here and elsewhere, not lot of people like it).
It feels like there are 2 Shadowheart personalities when it comes to interactions with party members from early access and new one added in full-release. Such inconsistency is a sign of poor writing or lack of time to consider everything. I would be nice to if it gets addressed by Larian but I don't think it will happen.
You did an excellent job summing up what many of us think. This is exactly the kind of things that ruins one's experience. You are developing a character and a story alongside, if once of the thing you are building up sucks, it's totally okay to feel that everything doesn't seem right, the experience is ruined or at least incomplete. No matter what decision you make, they basically bottleneck everything into two particular things, both equally fucked up, if that's not what you wanted: SH flirting with Halsing and SH disapproving if you reject him.)
I mean, they should have left different options and paths depending on your decisions, like with many other things within the game. But this feels straight up manipulated. Okay writer/develop, you decided to put your little fetish in the game, or even yourself in it, but that doesn't mean you should force those decisions and trigger action that doesn't fit with the playthrough one is following.
I'm not saying they should delete this, I'm saying the companions should behave (like they already do in other circumstances) according to the players decisions, paths, actions, etc. If they are reaction and evolving in a certain way, well be consistent, don't try to fit something where it doesn't fit. If someone is ok for whatever reason with this (maybe it is a fantasy of their, maybe they just want to have fun, they are role-playing as a promiscuous boy/girl...) it's okay, it's alright, but that doesn't mean everyone should do the same.
And the problem isn't really solve by ignoring those things, because they are already there, underneath. Like I said in another treat, it's like having your drunk friend over and hiding the beers, he ain't getting buzzed, but that doesn't mean he won't get drunk as soon as he sees there is beer in the house. He won't suddenly be sober for the rest of his life or learn to control himself just by hiding the alcohol.
Really, really hope they fix this thing along with the other companion's problems (coff coff Karlach). We have been supporting a lot this game, I know they can't fix all from one day to another, but I really for them to fix all this in the future.
I am going to attempt a helpful and considerate response for everyone involved in this discussion. If it seems inconsistent with things I have written earlier, well thoughts and perceptions develop over time so there are aspects where my standpoints can shift.
First of all to address the emotional aspect involved which cannot be disregarded. If you develop an emotional attachment to the character Shadowheart in the game, the attachment is going to carry over to your real emotions and you can't help but react to things that you experience. To validate everyone's feelings involved, Jennifer English, the VA of Shadowheart expresses these things on a deep emotional level in an interview here Go to the timestamp for "emotional scene" and a word of caution that this can hit too close to home for some.
Now with validation of feelings and emotions involved, let's also make it clear that feelings are not facts! This doesn't mean that I dismiss your feelings for anything but real, just that they aren't the same as facts.
The fact is that if you are playing a monogamous romantic storyline with Shadowheart, that scene is not intended for you. That is intended for a different audience. The companions are dynamic NPC's, which means that there are different versions of Shadowheart for different audiences. The player has a degree of control over which version of the dynamic NPC they want so that the story can cater to different audiences. In comparison to the Kagha storyline that OP mentions a few times, Kagha is not a dynamic NPC, all audiences get the same Kagha.
Different versions of Shadowheart for different audiences does not necessarily need to be consistent with one another, but of course, if some key parts of her character background is suddenly completely disregarded it becomes jarring and the writing that has been done to adapt the character to the audience isn't very good.
Those who follow a classic romantic storyline between two people involving Tav and Shadowheart get a very consistent experience, with the exception of the banter between Shadowheart and Halsin, which I must honestly believe is a script error that shouldn't be there unless you are pursuing the polyromance arc, it makes no sense otherwise. I know I played that down in my earlier responses based on my personal feelings about the whole thing, but again feelings aren't facts, so how I personally feel doesn't matter. It carries gravity no matter how I feel about it.
For my experience playing through the game with a romance arc that involved only Tav and Shadowheart where Halsin wasn't even around in act 3, the delivery was very consistent and satisfying. And that's my greatest advice for everyone to take away from here, the other versions of Shadowheart that aren't intended for you doesn't matter! It is the audience that want the Shadowheart that indulges in casual sex together with Tav and others that gets the inconsistent experience, but I doubt that audience cares that deeply about consistency because they just wanted to feel some stirring in their pants. The existence of an inconsistent Shadowheart for a different audience should be their problem, don't make it into yours.
I am going to attempt a helpful and considerate response for everyone involved in this discussion. If it seems inconsistent with things I have written earlier, well thoughts and perceptions develop over time so there are aspects where my standpoints can shift.
First of all to address the emotional aspect involved which cannot be disregarded. If you develop an emotional attachment to the character Shadowheart in the game, the attachment is going to carry over to your real emotions and you can't help but react to things that you experience. To validate everyone's feelings involved, Jennifer English, the VA of Shadowheart expresses these things on a deep emotional level in an interview here Go to the timestamp for "emotional scene" and a word of caution that this can hit too close to home for some.
Now with validation of feelings and emotions involved, let's also make it clear that feelings are not facts! This doesn't mean that I dismiss your feelings for anything but real, just that they aren't the same as facts.
The fact is that if you are playing a monogamous romantic storyline with Shadowheart, that scene is not intended for you. That is intended for a different audience. The companions are dynamic NPC's, which means that there are different versions of Shadowheart for different audiences. The player has a degree of control over which version of the dynamic NPC they want so that the story can cater to different audiences. In comparison to the Kagha storyline that OP mentions a few times, Kagha is not a dynamic NPC, all audiences get the same Kagha.
Different versions of Shadowheart for different audiences does not necessarily need to be consistent with one another, but of course, if some key parts of her character background is suddenly completely disregarded it becomes jarring and the writing that has been done to adapt the character to the audience isn't very good.
Those who follow a classic romantic storyline between two people involving Tav and Shadowheart get a very consistent experience, with the exception of the banter between Shadowheart and Halsin, which I must honestly believe is a script error that shouldn't be there unless you are pursuing the polyromance arc, it makes no sense otherwise. I know I played that down in my earlier responses based on my personal feelings about the whole thing, but again feelings aren't facts, so how I personally feel doesn't matter. It carries gravity no matter how I feel about it.
For my experience playing through the game with a romance arc that involved only Tav and Shadowheart where Halsin wasn't even around in act 3, the delivery was very consistent and satisfying. And that's my greatest advice for everyone to take away from here, the other versions of Shadowheart that aren't intended for you doesn't matter! It is the audience that want the Shadowheart that indulges in casual sex together with Tav and others that gets the inconsistent experience, but I doubt that audience cares that deeply about consistency because they just wanted to feel some stirring in their pants. The existence of an inconsistent Shadowheart for a different audience should be their problem, don't make it into yours.
Agreed, there's different versions of SH (and probably also of others characters) and you're probably right that is not intended to monogamous audience. But what if you happen to stumble upon that scene as a monogamous player? you would, at the very least, think that it doesn't make sense with her character.
You're basically telling us to turn a blind eye, and I think developers shouldn't allow monogamous player to find that scene. If they intended to do poly/exotic relationships, they should have a least have some kind of code/safeguard that preverts monogamous player to got even the chance to find that scene, and also with the flirting, if certain conditions are met, i.e. monogamous, high approval level, romantic scenes unlocked, characters (not just SH) should stop flirting between themselves.
I think you're seeing her 'heart' and we're seeing her 'shadows'. And she got lots of shadows, try a playthrough and don't recruit right away, you will find her a couple of times through act 1, look the way she treats Tav (specially at the grove). She's written in a way that if you're not feeling sympathetic with her (simping her), she's stray mean/annoying to Tav, and that can be seeing as a way of manipulation.
But that's just my opinion, and might be even wrong...
Agreed, there's different versions of SH (and probably also of others characters) and you're probably right that is not intended to monogamous audience. But what if you happen to stumble upon that scene as a monogamous player? you would, at the very least, think that it doesn't make sense with her character.
Yes, but if you disregard the emotional investment, this isn't any different from any other choice and consequence you encounter in the game. If you don't like it, or regret it, you just re-load and pick a different choice. This is why I needed to acknowledge that emotional attachment will trigger feelings, which you can't just re-load. So my advice is to remind yourself that this isn't the same version of Shadowheart as the one you are attached to (and don't get too attached obviously, she is not real and it's just a game!).
Originally Posted by NeedaUserName
You're basically telling us to turn a blind eye, and I think developers shouldn't allow monogamous player to find that scene. If they intended to do poly/exotic relationships, they should have a least have some kind of code/safeguard that preverts monogamous player to got even the chance to find that scene, and also with the flirting, if certain conditions are met, i.e. monogamous, high approval level, romantic scenes unlocked, characters (not just SH) should stop flirting between themselves.
I think it is set up to not just happen because you stumble upon it. I am no expert on every possible route to the Sharess Caress interaction, but as it was for me the story steered me there long before the completion of the Shadowheart romance (when she will still decline to any suggestion involving the drow sex workers). It was also very obvious what this interaction was about. So later in the story, once you have completed Shadowheart romance you would need to make the conscious decision to return to Sharess Caress (which has no other quests tied to it at this point) and engage this conversation again to trigger that scene. I mean don't play the fool, you know what you are doing at this point. But there may be other paths or possibilities that lead to this, it's a very open game, so I am not going to say anything for sure.
Originally Posted by NeedaUserName
I think you're seeing her 'heart' and we're seeing her 'shadows'. And she got lots of shadows, try a playthrough and don't recruit right away, you will find her a couple of times through act 1, look the way she treats Tav (specially at the grove). She's written in a way that if you're not feeling sympathetic with her (simping her), she's stray mean/annoying to Tav.
But that's just my opinion, and might be even wrong...
You are not wrong. In fact, even if you recruit her and treat her nicely, psycho-Shadowheart will eventually appear, planning to kill Lae'zel in cold blood and blame it on the tadpole. And she will go through with it unless you talk her out of it.
But she's fixable, which is the appeal of her story, the character development and growth.
Yes, but if you disregard the emotional investment, this isn't any different from any other choice and consequence you encounter in the game. If you don't like it, or regret it, you just re-load and pick a different choice. This is why I needed to acknowledge that emotional attachment will trigger feelings, which you can't just re-load. So my advice is to remind yourself that this isn't the same version of Shadowheart as the one you are attached to (and don't get too attached obviously, she is not real and it's just a game!).
In my case in particular I never got 'emotional attached' to her. It simply broke my roleplay experience (I wasn't even that far into her romance). And I think the 'solution' would be to make her romance (and any other character) in a way that behaves in the player's choosen relationship type. Not to turn a blind eye, but whatever. As you said, companions should be dynamic, and that is not dynamic at all.
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I think it is set up to not just happen because you stumble upon it. I am no expert on every possible route to the Sharess Caress interaction, but as it was for me the story steered me there long before the completion of the Shadowheart romance (when she will still decline to any suggestion involving the drow sex workers). It was also very obvious what this interaction was about. So later in the story, once you have completed Shadowheart romance you would need to make the conscious decision to return to Sharess Caress (which has no other quests tied to it at this point) and engage this conversation again to trigger that scene. I mean don't play the fool, you know what you are doing at this point. But there may be other paths or possibilities that lead to this, it's a very open game, so I am not going to say anything for sure
You're talking from the perspective of someone that knows that interaction, what if I didn't know about it and for whatever reason got to that area of the game with all the conditions met for that to happen?
What about any other possible interactions like this one that hasn't been discovered (if there's any)?
It's simple. I think they should have implemented so kind of 'monogamous-player path' or something.
Thought to be fair, as I said in a previous post. I've never got that interaction myself, so I don't know the conditions.
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You are not wrong. In fact, even if you recruit her and treat her nicely, psycho-Shadowheart will eventually appear, planning to kill Lae'zel in cold blood and blame it on the tadpole. And she will go through with it unless you talk her out of it.
But she's fixable, which is the appeal of her story, the character development and growth.
And that may be why posts like this one exist. With her grow and development, she shouldn't be willingly accepting that interaction, unless that Tav has clearly proof to be a poly.
In my case in particular I never got 'emotional attached' to her. It simply broke my roleplay experience (I wasn't even that far into her romance). And I think the 'solution' would be to make her romance (and any other character) in a way that behaves in the player's choosen relationship type. Not to turn a blind eye, but whatever. As you said, companions should be dynamic, and that is not dynamic at all.
You're talking from the perspective of someone that knows that interaction, what if I didn't know about it and for whatever reason got to that area of the game with all the conditions met for that to happen?
What about any other possible interactions like this one that hasn't been discovered (if there's any)?
It's simple. I think they should have implemented so kind of 'monogamous-player path' or something.
Thought to be fair, as I said in a previous post. I've never got that interaction myself, so I don't know the conditions.
And that may be why posts like this one exist. With her grow and development, she shouldn't be willingly accepting that interaction, unless that Tav has clearly proof to be a poly.
Yeah, I don't have very extensive knowledge about the paths and conversations in this scenario. I have boundaries around anything relating to traficking that I can't roleplay such scenarios. I just know how it was in my playthrough where it was very obvious from the start what this was about, for which I was grateful, so I could quickly decline and move on. Anything else is just what I gathered from what people have posted.
Larian have made a big deal about how there are a lot of consent checks in the sex scenes so you can stop what is going on. I think that checks out for the scenes I have played so far, but I would have to refer to someone else for this particular scene.
1. This is a video game, no matter how real it feels, we have to understand SH (or any other character) won't pop out of the monitor, so we can have some kind of Blade Runner 2049 experience. But that doesn't mean we can't fully involve ourselves into the story and have the best roll-play experience ever.
2. This (among other related topics) can either go in one of 2 directions: Larian could listen to the community and allow this dynamic we want; or they could pretend none of this is happening and everything (at least for this matter) remains the same.
So, with that in mind, let's continue...
There should be options for both perspectives (poly and mono). It is not like we are demanding something that hasn't been established by the game (both things are possible and allowed: being poly or mono), but we are arguing about how the game bottlenecks or narrows at some points, basically forcing you to take just one.
Let's gather the evidences we have so far:
1. SH was abused during her Shar life, she was "forced" to do things in the name of Shar. Like a brainwashed religious person. So, if she had casual non-sentimental carnal relations with other Shar followers, it was for the name of Shar, not by willing. She "didn't care" since it was Shar willing.
2. Halsin is a terrible-written character, who's primary purpose is being a forced sexual joke. Always harrasing the MC. You can deny everyone else, but him. There is always the option for an open sexual-relation with him. You can deny everyone joining your party, but him... again. And literally most of the things he adds to the game are things that one can figure out without him.
3. SH will reject being a spare-lover with any other companion but Halsin (suspicious). Why can't she allow someone else? Or be consistent and reject everyone? It's like saying, "I don't want anything casual and forced anymore, I want you full... but ummm let's give Halsin a chance, so it would be easier to approach that wild bear later"
4. She goes with all the "you and only you" BS, and how she found herself with you by her side... but after finishing her storyline there is that banter where she is LITERALLY flirting with Halsin like WTF? Can't the game tell I didn't sleep with anyone else? It just breaks the roll-play experience one is following
5. It is true that going to the twins (and knowing the context) you shouldn't expect more of her if you decide to sleep with them (even Halsin). But why isn't there a voice line to reject the idea if you are following a mono path?
It is more than obvious that someone decide to put his little fetish in the game and wrap it round HS and Halsin. And IDK maybe this person dreams with people watching him, so we are "watching him" through Halsin. Disgusting...
I really like this game, honestly, it drags you to experience the full adventure (in all senses), but when you are building something, following certain paths and then something like this happens is just... it feels odd, like something's missing.
So, what options we have? Kill Halsin? Let the goblins kill him? Never talk you him? Let the shadow-lands with the curse?
That just means narrowing the game more, having less options...
So, we ignore all that, we don't talk and reject those twins? We get rid of Halsin right after SH learns to swim? Yeah, it could work, but we are just pretending. The moment we include Halsin that banter will pop-out. The moment we talk to the twins we know the only answer SH give no matter how mono the relation was. Worst if Halsin is included, like okay we are open to snacks but only if we both feel comfortable, oh look! Halsin wants to join... how dare you say no? DISAPPROVE! Like apparently if you go poly you are forced to like the bear, otherwise people dislike you.
And even worst, okay you decide to take Halsin, once into the room you are just a snack, Halsin is the real king in the house. And suddenly SH reveals she's been dreaming about him (and was lively), even if she literally spent the last night with you, and until that moment you've been playing mono. Consistency people, like please.
Well... finally, how can Larian fix all this? I won't go deep (not like Halsin, jk jk) But here are some ideas, simple ideas (is not a big topic that requires hours and days of thinking):
1. Fully allow mono and poly, and respect the players decisions. Is a roll-play game, the system should react according to the player's decisions, not the system deliberately telling the player what they have to choose.
2. You went mono? You rejected Halsin n-times before the end of HS arc? Furthermore, you didn't cheat with her? Then don't trigger the dam banter
3. Allow people to reject Halsin from joining your party (if he doesn't add anything for you), we don't need to ignore him or kill him, just let us say NO
4. Allow people to be poly with HS and different companions, not only Halsin (unless you actually want to respect her story, then don't allow this option with any companion including Halsin)
5. If you went full mono and for whatever reason decided to talk with the twins, show SH disapproval by dialog or a simple "SH disapproves" message... so you are respecting what the player built and the consequences of being horny all of a sudden
6. If you decide to go poly (and according to point 4), is a mutual agreement, so... if you get to the twins and (unless your spare-lover is Halsin) don't force me to accept his offer and don't show SH disapproval. You want, I don't, I only want the twins (you want them too), but I don't need Halsin, so (game) respect that.
7. A similar scenario (point 6), but now you are "dating" Halsin, well... NOW show the disapproval. You are eating that meat, but SH can't? Come on dude...
8. Now let's say you are poly but also a son of a gun and decide to cheat on SH (you didn't ask her). First, don't say that "you and only you BS". Second now show that banter. Third, show her excitement in the brothel when Halsin decides to join, and of course show the disapproval if you refuse. You can be a bitch, but she can't? Again, come on dude...
9. And finally (but probably not last), you were mono, but then you cheat then repeat the point 8.
There...of course there could be more scenarios, but I think these 9 points sums almost everything. So you respect different paths, different decisions, everyone is happy. If someone gets to a scenario they didn't like, well, that's the player's fault. Don't want SH to be a whore? Then why are you behaving like one (acting like a second Halsin).
So I really hope they fix all this, along with other companions problems. I am a developer my self. We once changed a client system in the company I work for, we thought it would be for the best, but no... a lot of clients started to sent bad reviews and complains, they wanted the old system back, but there were those who wanted the new system to stay... what did we do? Simple, we deployed both options, and everyone's happy in that regard...
I think we should do as Madguise said and put a ticket for Larian about this topic (since more and more people keep complaining) and hope for the best.
Anyway, thanks for reading, and sorry for my poor lexicon.
I agree with majority of points that has been discussed here. This particular dialog in that particular context doesn't make sense and contradicts her romance arc development. I hope Larian will look into this problem eventually.
In regards of leaving feedback, Larian has a whole thread for it on their Discord server too, you can post your suggestions there as well.
The entire dialogue makes even less sense if you decline Halsin beforehand. I don't play with him in the party because I can't stand his character but tested it out. He still jokes about joining in on the next 'swimming session' toward Shadowheart even if you declined him. And wants to join in on the orgy regardless of you declining him beforehand. And Shadowheart is the one that initiates it if you had the beach scene before talking to the twins.
Couldn't think of a more blatant self insert by the writer. Which is a shame, because he wrote Shadowheart quite well. Even if there's a severe lack of commitment to the relationship as shown by the mediocre epilogue despite multiple heart to heart moments. Now we know why.
The entire dialogue makes even less sense if you decline Halsin beforehand. I don't play with him in the party because I can't stand his character but tested it out. He still jokes about joining in on the next 'swimming session' toward Shadowheart even if you declined him. And wants to join in on the orgy regardless of you declining him beforehand. And Shadowheart is the one that initiates it if you had the beach scene before talking to the twins.
Couldn't think of a more blatant self insert by the writer. Which is a shame, because he wrote Shadowheart quite well. Even if there's a severe lack of commitment to the relationship as shown by the mediocre epilogue despite multiple heart to heart moments. Now we know why.
Well, with that information revealed I am just going to concede and bow out of any further discussion. Halsin is toxic af!
I am a sex-positive person with no issues with what goes down between consenting adults, but I will be keeping Halsin firmly stashed away out of sight and out of mind after he has done his part for the plot in any playthrough. He doesn't do anything for me anyway, I prefer cute boys!
It's actually really bad if you read it all in context. I'll quote the entire conversation from declining Halsin to the Drow scene. Will put it in spoiler tags because it'll be quite some text.
Declining Halsin during long rest:
Halsin: I never quite realised how burdened I was, until I met you. The threat of the shadow curse, the politics of the grove... Halsin: ...I forgot who I was, but you lifted the fog. Thank you. Tav: So the fog's lifted - what have you discovered? Halsin: You. I discovered you. I have lived a very long time. I have taken many lovers. My heart does not stir lightly. But it does now. Tav: What are you saying exactly? Halsin: I want more than to fight at your side, or sit around the campfire with you. I want to lay with you under the stars and feel your skin against mine. Halsin: I think you feel the same way - why else would you have been so concerned about whether I had a lover before? Halsin: But tell me I'm wrong, and the matter can rest. I do not wish to sour our friendship, but I have to know if it can be something more. Tav: If I wanted to rut with half a tonne of dumb muscle, I'd seduce a deep rothé. Halsin: A simple 'no' would have sufficed. I will trouble you with the matter no more.
OR
Tav: I'm afraid I just don't see you that way. Halsin: I understand, and I still cherish our relationship. Halsin: Still... I could not have forgiven myself had I not taken the plunge. Better to have tried and failed.
OR
Tav: I'd be lying if I said I wasn't interested - but I'm already in a relationship. Halsin: You have bonded with Shadowheart, body and soul. Her scent lingers on your skin. If there is to be anything between us, it must be with her consent. And perhaps some day, her participation. Tav: I'm sorry - I'm in a relationship. I don't want to jeopardise it. Halsin: I understand, and I still cherish our relationship. Halsin: Still... I could not have forgiven myself had I not taken the plunge. Better to have tried and failed.
A fair exchange I suppose. You can decline him with any of the options, it doesn't matter how you do it, but the second option is the most logical and the third way seemed like the one where it's most clear that you want a mono relationship even if you're forced to admit interest for some reason (why is the second reply regarding the relationship not instead of the first?).
Proceed to the next night where I got the chat with Shadowheart about her still feeling the Shadowfell followed up by the beach scene. I then kick out a companion to add level 1 Halsin to the party.
Few steps into Wyrm's Crossing and the following exchange happens straight away.
Halsin: I heard you learnt how to swim, Shadowheart - well done. Halsin: You know, if you and your love ever wish to enjoy the waters with me, I could attempt a kelpie... or even a porpoise. Shadowheart: Depends, are you buoyant? I may need a life preserver if I get in over my head.
So he straight up hits on Shadowheart after you decline him, knowing full well you want no part in it based on previous exchange. Good writing!
Then you get to the Drow twins:
Sorn Orlith: A new face! Looking for another chapter of dirty lore for your biography? Nym Orlith: You have but to ask, and we can grant you a moment of pleasure. Nym Orlith: Don't be shy. Halsin: An intriguing pair. Takes me back to my youth... Tav: How did you end up here? Sorn Orlith: I used to work as a courtesan back home, and my sister as an artisanal masseuse, but men are treated like dogs by the Underdark's matriarchs, so we fled. Nym Orlith: We found surfacers crave the body of a Drow like a drug. Life is easy in our line of work. Tav: Don't you want a change? Nym Orlith: Perhaps once we have saved more gold another adventure will begin. We've had busier days, but life is comfortable here with Mamzell. Tav: I'm glad you've found a place you feel safe. Sorn Orlith: I'd have to restrain myself far more than any play-bindings do if I worked in another field. This is a place where I can be myself boundlessly. Sorn Orlith: There are so many who come to me speaking of a fixation that no one else has ever been able to shaer with them... and never will again. Sorn Orlith: A once in-a-lifetime moment of passion. Every day. What could be better? Don't you want to try it? Sorn Orlith: Trust me, you don't want to miss my signature Menzoberranzan Love Trick. Nym Orlith: And is that your partner with you? What a gorgeous couple... perhaps we could come to an agreement. Tav: Agreement? What kind of agreement? Nym Orlith: We want both of you, silly! At the same time. Shadowheart: There's an idea. If you're comfortable sharing... so am I. Tav: Great, let's do it. Halsin: Perhaps you'd care for a little extra company... Shadowheart: I won't pretend the thought hasn't crossed my mind once or twice... or more than that. Tav: No, Halsin! Tame yourself! Halsin: As you wish. I'm sure I can find berth elsewhere...
Proceed by having both of them disapprove. It's actually quite unnerving seeing it in full context. You make no push toward it, just merely asking questions to the Drows, Shadowheart suddenly pops up showing interest (why???), which can make you feel pressured into accepting. Then Halsin pops up despite your wishes and when you decline they're both unhappy with it? It's 100% written in a way that implies that Shadowheart has a thing for Halsin regardless of how Tav (you) roleplay about it, and shows Halsin as a super pushy sex addict that doesn't take no for an answer and will actively try ruin your relationship.
I then kick out a companion to add level 1 Halsin to the party.
Few steps into Wyrm's Crossing and the following exchange happens straight away.
Now to be fair, this is a problem every character have when you add them to your party later on. They will have conversations between them, and talk to you like if you had history with them. I recruited SH in my current playthrough (she won't last much tho, Lae'zel will fight to death with her) at the goblin camp (It didn't make sense to my Tav not to do it after what happens in that cinematic) and proceeded to exhaust her dialogue, and in one of her answers she told my Tav something like "we've been through a lot, what you want to know"; when she literally didn't have 5 minutes on my team. I would like they eventually look at that too.
And what I find annoying is that they don't put some kind of safeguard to prevent those interactions (when you're not poly). Especially if such interactions can literally destroy/change how you view a character (It's like reading a long book, and in the last chapter, the character do the opposite to what they were doing on previous chapters). And the same can be said about the flirting.
I think that the problem isn't SH but Halsin, for what I know, people on EA wanted to have a romance with him and somehow they made him the way he is rn. I dislike the way that, of all characters, he seems to be the one that does what he wants and not what your Tav wants. I mean, Lae'zel (that is a Gith), you can convince her to consume tadpoles. Lae'zel! the character that hates mind flayer the most, and Halsin (from what I've read) is a lot lest flexible in how you can influence him.
And I found funny how even people like me (that play in a 2 people team), can *potentially* find that scene. Because Halsin joins my camp without me consenting, now if he wouldn't interfere in any way, shape or form, like Withers, it wouldn't mind. But do you honestly think if they force me a character, I won't eventually use it? Meaning that even when I was intentionally avoiding teammates, my Tav (possibly) could get that drow interaction. I don't what else to say regarding this. lol.
What Michieltjuhh said, basically sums what Halsin is all about.
Halsin adds nothing besides saving Thaniel (IDK if you can save him by another means). Everything else he says you can figure out yourselves. Anyway... If you deny his proposal of becoming a lover, apparently he game will keep pushing you (forcing you) to love him.
1. He gets in your camp even if you don't want to
2. If you reject him, that means you don't like him... no matter if you are taking a mono or poly path... If you are gay, it doesn't mean that you like every man on the planet. Then, only because I want to go poly in the game, that doesn't imply I want Halsin to be my second lover.
3. If you already reject him, why would he stick his nose and ask for a fivesome... No Halsin, no is no... I don't like you I want the twins and SH, not you... (and then the disapproval, LMAO)
4. If I'm going mono, why showing that nasty banter after the swimming scene? Even more, if I'm just talking to the twins, why would she say "There's an idea. If you're comfortable sharing... so am I"? What happens to all the "you and only you"? Before the player's response
Tons of inconsistencies... Is the game reacting to the player's choices, or the game forcing you to choose a certain path for the shake of someone's dirty fetish?
Are you telling me to go poly even if I don't want to? Specifically with Halsin? Are you saying I need to do the fivesome if I don't want a disapproval? Wow thanks for respecting my choices and narrowing my options.
Then, what? I need to kill him? Or her? Should I go the dark path? I need SH to kill the nightsong? I need to leave Halsin in the camp even if I like him as companion (for the fights I mean)? Oh wow, In other words: you need to react according to the game, because all roads lead to Rome. Let's throw your role play to the trashcan.
My way to have him never annoy me. Do Thaniel's quest WITHOUT having him in the party, done, saved the boy good Act 2 ending. And yes, without Halsin, no saving the kid. Then Ignore his existence, never even talk to him, imagine him just as what he really is, a forced NPC you must have in camp to have a certain quest done. I did it, and boom, all my problems were solved. Still annoys me having to avoid any npc, but honestly, I didn't miss a thing not interacting with the unpleasant horny weirdo dude.
Also, while in the poly thing, isn't that unfair that they gave (forced) a dude option, but didn't have a female option for those who want poly but not a man?
My way to have him never annoy me. Do Thaniel's quest WITHOUT having him in the party, done, saved the boy good Act 2 ending. And yes, without Halsin, no saving the kid. Then Ignore his existence, never even talk to him, imagine him just as what he really is, a forced NPC you must have in camp to have a certain quest done. I did it, and boom, all my problems were solved. Still annoys me having to avoid any npc, but honestly, I didn't miss a thing not interacting with the unpleasant horny weirdo dude.
That's the way I'm playing it (the Lift the Curse quest is done apart from killing Thorm). I can't stand Halsin from the moment he opens his mouth in the goblin cells. I'm hoping for a mod which allows you to kill him (and Volo, another waste of space I can't get out of my game).
My way to have him never annoy me. Do Thaniel's quest WITHOUT having him in the party, done, saved the boy good Act 2 ending. And yes, without Halsin, no saving the kid. Then Ignore his existence, never even talk to him, imagine him just as what he really is, a forced NPC you must have in camp to have a certain quest done. I did it, and boom, all my problems were solved. Still annoys me having to avoid any npc, but honestly, I didn't miss a thing not interacting with the unpleasant horny weirdo dude.
It's kinda sad cause, honestly, I like his design but hate the rest of him. lol. He's destined to die at the goblin camp in all my playthroughs.
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Also, while in the poly thing, isn't that unfair that they gave (forced) a dude option, but didn't have a female option for those who want poly but not a man?
Wait so there's not a poly female option? I thought Minthara was Poly.
My way to have him never annoy me. Do Thaniel's quest WITHOUT having him in the party, done, saved the boy good Act 2 ending. And yes, without Halsin, no saving the kid. Then Ignore his existence, never even talk to him, imagine him just as what he really is, a forced NPC you must have in camp to have a certain quest done. I did it, and boom, all my problems were solved. Still annoys me having to avoid any npc, but honestly, I didn't miss a thing not interacting with the unpleasant horny weirdo dude.
It's kinda sad cause, honestly, I like his design but hate the rest of him. lol. He's destined to die at the goblin camp in all my playthroughs.
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Also, while in the poly thing, isn't that unfair that they gave (forced) a dude option, but didn't have a female option for those who want poly but not a man?
Wait so there's not a poly female option? I thought Minthara was Poly.
Nope, Minthara is 110% mono, and she will threaten to kill you if you try to go flirting around, like with the twins, etc. There's no female poly option in this game. Just old dude Halsin.
Even if there's a severe lack of commitment to the relationship as shown by the mediocre epilogue despite multiple heart to heart moments. Now we know why.
I don't agree with that. In the Selune ending at least whether you save her parents or not she makes it clear she wants to continue the relationship and she'll even stay with you if you become a mind flayer. I do think it's weird that she says "seek me out when you have time" if she saves her parents but if she lets her parents go you will continue traveling together immediately after the events of the game. The discrepancy between saving and letting the parents ending go makes no sense to me but there's no lack of commitment as your character will go to her after some undetermined amount of time.
I don't agree with that. In the Selune ending at least whether you save her parents or not she makes it clear she wants to continue the relationship and she'll even stay with you if you become a mind flayer. I do think it's weird that she says "seek me out when you have time" if she saves her parents but if she lets her parents go you will continue traveling together immediately after the events of the game. The discrepancy between saving and letting the parents ending go makes no sense to me but there's no lack of commitment as your character will go to her after some undetermined amount of time.
It's the third time throughout the playthrough that you have to confirm it to her. First time I'll give a pass because it's just after the Nightsong stuff so she's emotional. Second time however is basically a marriage proposal a long rest after the beach scene. Yet she's still doubtful and needs confirmation again at the end of the game. And yeah, the parents ending is weird in that regard. Even the parents are completely cool with you. I did like that touch (need to talk to the dad before long resting after saving em). But then it's ruined in the ending again.
I don't agree with that. In the Selune ending at least whether you save her parents or not she makes it clear she wants to continue the relationship and she'll even stay with you if you become a mind flayer. I do think it's weird that she says "seek me out when you have time" if she saves her parents but if she lets her parents go you will continue traveling together immediately after the events of the game. The discrepancy between saving and letting the parents ending go makes no sense to me but there's no lack of commitment as your character will go to her after some undetermined amount of time.
It's the third time throughout the playthrough that you have to confirm it to her. First time I'll give a pass because it's just after the Nightsong stuff so she's emotional. Second time however is basically a marriage proposal a long rest after the beach scene. Yet she's still doubtful and needs confirmation again at the end of the game. And yeah, the parents ending is weird in that regard. Even the parents are completely cool with you. I did like that touch (need to talk to the dad before long resting after saving em). But then it's ruined in the ending again.
I really have no idea what you're on about. Where is the non commitment here? She literally says she wants to continue the relationship.
I really have no idea what you're on about. Where is the non commitment here? She literally says she wants to continue the relationship.
Commitment might've been the wrong word. Lack of faith in it instead then. Like I said it's the third time you have to say yes to that question. Why's it have to keep being asked?
I really have no idea what you're on about. Where is the non commitment here? She literally says she wants to continue the relationship.
Commitment might've been the wrong word. Lack of faith in it instead then. Like I said it's the third time you have to say yes to that question. Why's it have to keep being asked?
First of all it only happens twice, after the Nightsong decision and in the epilogue. Secondly she's obviously insecure after everything that's happened. She has multiple lines talking about how she's undeserving of happiness, her family, her real name, and even says she's not sure how she tricked the player into thinking she's deserving of them.
First of all it only happens twice, after the Nightsong decision and in the epilogue. Secondly she's obviously insecure after everything that's happened. She has multiple lines talking about how she's undeserving of happiness, her family, her real name, and even says she's not sure how she tricked the player into thinking she's deserving of them.
Na you missed a scene then. Best vid I could find on it I'm afraid. But yes, fair enough, this is before the House of Grief stuff. I'll just blame it on lack of extended epilogue. Here's to hoping we get more.
At the end of the day nothing is going to get changed anyway.
They probably don't even read this board since it's not the feedback board, you don't see people discussing this stuff and getting up in arms on it on twitter/discord/reddit like you do with Karlach or Minthara so as far as Larian is concerned it's not even a problem. Hell, nobody has even made anything about it on their feedback forum on their Discord. I would but I'm not articulate enough to make a big write up on how shitty this being in the game is.
So either you decide this has ruined Shadowheart's character for you or you treat it as some optional fetish fuel some degenerate writer put him the game for himself and ignore it since you can go the entire game without her even mentioning Halsin even once.
At the end of the day nothing is going to get changed anyway.
They probably don't even read this board since it's not the feedback board, you don't see people discussing this stuff and getting up in arms on it on twitter/discord/reddit like you do with Karlach or Minthara so as far as Larian is concerned it's not even a problem. Hell, nobody has even made anything about it on their feedback forum on their Discord. I would but I'm not articulate enough to make a big write up on how shitty this being in the game is.
So either you decide this has ruined Shadowheart's character for you or you treat it as some optional fetish fuel some degenerate writer put him the game for himself and ignore it since you can go the entire game without her even mentioning Halsin even once.
Ye dw I only found out through the board anyway. Never played with Halsin in party, never will. He should be happy he's the only way (afaik) to save Thaniel or he'd get stoned to death more often. Just found it interesting enough to dig into while I was waiting for the patch.
So Patch 3 just dropped, were there any changes made regarding this? Anyone?... If not I really want them to make some changes atleast in he upcoming patches. Remove the disapproval, add some dialogue about how Tav will not share SH with another. Like that dialogue with Astarion! Make it fair man.
They probably don't even read this board since it's not the feedback board, you don't see people discussing this stuff and getting up in arms on it on twitter/discord/reddit like you do with Karlach or Minthara so as far as Larian is concerned it's not even a problem. Hell, nobody has even made anything about it on their feedback forum on their Discord. I would but I'm not articulate enough to make a big write up on how shitty this being in the game is.
I created a thread in their feedback channel on their discord, in case you guys want to reinforce it, it's called "Shadowheart Romance Inconsistencies" (yeah, I know, not the best title, I'm not perfect with words, but hope that will be enough). I didn't go as deep as we did here, but you could keep commenting things there, and hope for Larian to see it.
I am going to attempt a helpful and considerate response for everyone involved in this discussion. If it seems inconsistent with things I have written earlier, well thoughts and perceptions develop over time so there are aspects where my standpoints can shift.
First of all to address the emotional aspect involved which cannot be disregarded. If you develop an emotional attachment to the character Shadowheart in the game, the attachment is going to carry over to your real emotions and you can't help but react to things that you experience. To validate everyone's feelings involved, Jennifer English, the VA of Shadowheart expresses these things on a deep emotional level in an interview here Go to the timestamp for "emotional scene" and a word of caution that this can hit too close to home for some.
Now with validation of feelings and emotions involved, let's also make it clear that feelings are not facts! This doesn't mean that I dismiss your feelings for anything but real, just that they aren't the same as facts.
The fact is that if you are playing a monogamous romantic storyline with Shadowheart, that scene is not intended for you. That is intended for a different audience. The companions are dynamic NPC's, which means that there are different versions of Shadowheart for different audiences. The player has a degree of control over which version of the dynamic NPC they want so that the story can cater to different audiences. In comparison to the Kagha storyline that OP mentions a few times, Kagha is not a dynamic NPC, all audiences get the same Kagha.
Different versions of Shadowheart for different audiences does not necessarily need to be consistent with one another, but of course, if some key parts of her character background is suddenly completely disregarded it becomes jarring and the writing that has been done to adapt the character to the audience isn't very good.
Those who follow a classic romantic storyline between two people involving Tav and Shadowheart get a very consistent experience, with the exception of the banter between Shadowheart and Halsin, which I must honestly believe is a script error that shouldn't be there unless you are pursuing the polyromance arc, it makes no sense otherwise. I know I played that down in my earlier responses based on my personal feelings about the whole thing, but again feelings aren't facts, so how I personally feel doesn't matter. It carries gravity no matter how I feel about it.
For my experience playing through the game with a romance arc that involved only Tav and Shadowheart where Halsin wasn't even around in act 3, the delivery was very consistent and satisfying. And that's my greatest advice for everyone to take away from here, the other versions of Shadowheart that aren't intended for you doesn't matter! It is the audience that want the Shadowheart that indulges in casual sex together with Tav and others that gets the inconsistent experience, but I doubt that audience cares that deeply about consistency because they just wanted to feel some stirring in their pants. The existence of an inconsistent Shadowheart for a different audience should be their problem, don't make it into yours.
I do not know if I am understanding this correctly, but is Jennifer English in the interview saying she is affected by that poly/orgy scene as well? Is she pointing to that scene or is she talking about something else? She said that there were alot of tears for her that day and that she needed a day off, to recover from it... Because man knowing that even she is affected by this 'emotional' scene gives me such relief, coming from her.
I do not know if I am understanding this correctly, but is Jennifer English in the interview saying she is affected by that poly/orgy scene as well? Is she pointing to that scene or is she talking about something else? She said that there were alot of tears for her that day and that she needed a day off, to recover from it... Because man knowing that even she is affected by this 'emotional' scene gives me such relief, coming from her.
Jennifer was talking about the scene with Shar and Shadowhearts parents if you are talking about her YouTube interview. But you don't need to worry about Jennifers opinion on Halsin because she made it clear that she isn't really a fan of the whole bear thing.
As for the discord thingy, I don't really use discord so I can't do much about it. If you want you can link this thread, that might help.
I haven't been paying much attention to BG3 for the last week or so but I doubt any major changes are gonna come when it comes to rewrites, story improvements etc. any time soon.
Just a nice little thing that I would like to add to the thread since I find it funny.
- Red prince romance: Starts with voyeurisms and ends up with cuckolding the main character
- Halsin: Overall sex pest focusing mainly on fetishes that even his fans don't like (bear scene, bear scene again with the drow twins, and dialogue where he implies he has sex with animals)
- Shadowheart: Surprisingly decent story (for a game) that is ruined buy its ending and its cheating undertones.
Really? She did mention something about 'involving a group of people and a big guy', something along those lines, so I am suspecting when she mentions 'big guy' that is Halsin, and the 'group of people' as the drows.. Do you have links to that part of the interview regarding her opinion on Halsin, or wherever she said that in?
I created a thread in their feedback channel on their discord, in case you guys want to reinforce it, it's called "Shadowheart Romance Inconsistencies" (yeah, I know, not the best title, I'm not perfect with words, but hope that will be enough). I didn't go as deep as we did here, but you could keep commenting things there, and hope for Larian to see it.
Having made the journey from one side of this debate to the other I can help explain what you need to focus on to reach people. At first glance this appears as a classic case of player entitlement, which is how I reacted at first.
You need to approach the discussion from the point of view that it's not a problem that Shadowheart views romantic attraction and sexual attraction as separate and consequently is open to the idea of casual sex and sharing. That is just a matter of personal preferences and feelings, and feelings are not facts.
But there are two big issues:
The consistency issue Here she is deeply in love with Tav, with both romantic and sexual attraction, and also dependant on Tav. Remember that it is Shadowheart that has the higher stakes in this relationship, Tav still has their life outside of the relationship with Shadowheart somewhere and plenty of interested parties looking for their affection. That Tav is the main source of stability and happiness in her life is not up to interpretation based on what she says. We have also established that she prefers to be discreet and likes to keep her cards close to her chest. Why in the nine hells would she risk everything she has with Tav by suddenly being completely blunt and upfront about something that she doesn't even know if Tav is comfortable with? If the player has already romanced Halsin, then it makes more sense and the target audience probably want something to develop between Shadowheart and Halsin here as well. But this happens regardless of whether Tav has shown any interest in Halsin or not, and even worse, even when Tav has clearly rejected Halsin.
The cringe issue Halsin's behaviour is absolutely cringey and toxic, and Shadowheart's as well in at least one instance of how it plays out. Again, if some players want a spicy consentual sex orgy with their companions, that's entirely up to them and I am not telling them how they can enjoy their game. But there is a terrible lack of consideration, communication and consent in the writing. The disapproval reactions goes against everything we are trying to achieve in our modern society around healthy sexual communication. If your partner is not comfortable with something, you should never express disappointment in them, respect and support their feelings! Is it really that f***ing hard to get these things right in a game written in 2023? They supposedly even had intimacy coordinators and editors that read everything to ensure that the player could give consent in all sexual encounters. Who the hell read this one and approved it?
Really? She did mention something about 'involving a group of people and a big guy', something along those lines, so I am suspecting when she mentions 'big guy' that is Halsin, and the 'group of people' as the drows.. Do you have links to that part of the interview regarding her opinion on Halsin, or wherever she said that in?
I can see how someone might interpret that comment 'a couple of other people and a certain big person' as her talking about the Halsin/drow scene but if you listen to her whole answer you can see that she is talking about something more personal to the Shadowhearts story opposed to a random brothel encounter i.e. the choice between saving her parents or not. (the big person is the giant manifestation of Shar)
And if you listen to the question being asked you'll hear that its about her favorite/emotional scene so I doubt that the brothel scene holds that much emotional weight for her.
https://streamable.com/07l78r - Both Jennifer and Devora are joking around but its clear that she is not a fan of bestiality like she says.
edit. Either way my issue with the decision to add the Mizora/Halsin scenes is and has always been with the writing. Me and Ninja might have disagreed in the past but I do agree that if anyone decides to write to the devs or on discord is to focus on the writing aspects of it. (tho don't be afraid to mix it up a bit with your opinion of what you expect in a romance/story)
Her going from I don't want to share/I don't want to be your spare lover/Initiating a breakup if you pursue someone else at the same time as her to a contradictory statement during the Mizora scene of her not wanting anything pure and loyal/not minding you sleeping around and opening the relationship.
And her talking about MC being her true love and spending the rest of her life with them to suddenly flirting and wanting to pursue Halsin.
They supposedly even had intimacy coordinators and editors that read everything to ensure that the player could give consent in all sexual encounters. Who the hell read this one and approved it?
That's actually hilarious. If I were to ever - somehow - find myself in a scenario like that, I'd break up right there and then. No questions asked. The intent is out, there's no salvaging it. Thankfully this is just a videogame and I can easily shrug it off as stupid oversight. Just like how we can't comfort her in any way during her final story cutscene.
Speaking of fetish, I have now considered it would be logical to romance Shadowheart and also bang Karlach. Karlach has weeks to live. Long term relationship (outside of Avernus) is out. And Karlach doesn't want to go back anyway. So the PC...and the half elf...should indulge Karlach as end of life care.
My theory is that they were given all the scenes disjointed, which made it impossible to see the larger context.
Yes, it's a writing and scripting collision/oversight isn't it?
If we follow the path where Tav actively romances Halsin and Shadowheart together it starts with Halsin declaring his interest and asking Tav to speak to Shadowheart first. Shadowheart alludes to being understanding of Tav's desires and "wants all the details" afterwards. This properly foreshadows what Shadowheart says in the brothel scene because Tav has now given Shadowheart a spicy and juicy recollection of their time spent with Halsin. Tav and Shadowheart proceed to take their relationship the next step and then the flirty banter happens in the context of Tav, Halsin and Shadowheart having a fully consensual agreement about their poly relationship. It all checks out.
But when bad writing/scripting causes this path to get mixed up with the path where Tav has shown no interest in including Halsin (or worse, actively rejected him) it instead just becomes creepy, cringey and toxic.
Yes, it's a writing and scripting collision/oversight isn't it?
If we follow the path where Tav actively romances Halsin and Shadowheart together it starts with Halsin declaring his interest and asking Tav to speak to Shadowheart first. Shadowheart alludes to being understanding of Tav's desires and "wants all the details" afterwards. This properly foreshadows what Shadowheart says in the brothel scene because Tav has now given Shadowheart a spicy and juicy recollection of their time spent with Halsin. Tav and Shadowheart proceed to take their relationship the next step and then the flirty banter happens in the context of Tav, Halsin and Shadowheart having a fully consensual agreement about their poly relationship. It all checks out.
But when bad writing/scripting causes this path to get mixed up with the path where Tav has shown no interest in including Halsin (or worse, actively rejected him) it instead just becomes creepy, cringey and toxic.
Pretty much this. These dialogues should only trigger if you agreed to it. Even if the whole idea of Shadowheart suddenly being fine with poly doesn't make any sense based on how she was written for the entirety of act 1 and act 2, at least it'd be more consistent with your act 3 choices then. EDIT: Same goes for Astarion to be fair. In both cases it feels pointlessly forced; why would the characters written as the most vulnerable and dependent be the ones that are okay with it? Halsin's entire inclusion as romance character just feels like a writing mistake.
I'll never know if they'll change it though because Halsin will never enter my party anyway. I'd rather have a hireling if it comes to it.
It truly is, and I find it telling that they are both (Shadowheart and Halsin) written by the lead writer. Was his team not able to call him out of any of this, when they were so attentive at other times?
Or did he simply ignore them? I am sure he is a talented writer, but I think perhaps they should consider leaving the companion writing to the others, who might be better and more nuanced in their writing.
I said it earlier but I'm convinced there is no way they're ever going to change this.
There's a big reddit thread about companion drow twin interactions and the way people celebrate the way Halsin and Shadowheart react in that situation is just disgusting to me. Clearly there's only a small section of us that actually think this is an issue which is such a shame. And the few people that tried to speak out against it just got downvoted and their comments hidden.
To be fair for the sake of Shadowheart all they have to do is change the triggers so this only happens if you had your one night stand with Halsin instead of declining him. Have her say no to his advances the same way you did if you said no, or easier yet, just have him actually respect your boundaries like he said he would if you decline him and remove the triggers entirely. He did an incredible job otherwise writing her story, there's a reason we are so invested.
That doesn't solve Halsin's overall romance writing compared to what people wanted, but at least it solves this issue.
It needs to be laid out in its' entirety and context like Michieltjuhh did with all the lines and actual choices where Tav declines Halsin clear for everyone to see.
That's what flipped my view on the entire thing, and I thank you for doing that.
Asking straight out to people if they think it is ok that Halsin propositions Tav for sex and gets declined. And then proceeds to team up with Tav's partner and the two of them together guilting Tav to try and coerce them into having sex with him anyway? That is so f****ing toxic that I had no other option than to completely change my standpoint when faced with that information. It's a virtual mic-drop!
And Larian can either stick with this writing and outright say that all their fancy words about consent and sensitivity means nothing, or they can do the right thing and change it. I am not deeply invested in Halsin or Shadowheart or any other companion, but I am deeply invested in making our world safer with teaching proper communication about boundaries and consent!
Edit: Of course, recognising the fact that it's entirely avoidable without having any effect on your story at all which is the saving grace for the whole thing. But it is still in poor taste that it CAN happen.
I said it earlier but I'm convinced there is no way they're ever going to change this.
There's a big reddit thread about companion drow twin interactions and the way people celebrate the way Halsin and Shadowheart react in that situation is just disgusting to me. Clearly there's only a small section of us that actually think this is an issue which is such a shame. And the few people that tried to speak out against it just got downvoted and their comments hidden.
That's strange, because every time I've seen this dialog discussed, majority seemed to be frustrated by it. I suppose a lot of people just doesn't see this as the major issue and doesn't take it seriously, that's all. Besides, as many stated before, this issue is pretty easily fixable: just add one trigger and everyone is happy, so I think there is a good chance Larian would adress it at some point.
I said it earlier but I'm convinced there is no way they're ever going to change this.
There's a big reddit thread about companion drow twin interactions and the way people celebrate the way Halsin and Shadowheart react in that situation is just disgusting to me. Clearly there's only a small section of us that actually think this is an issue which is such a shame. And the few people that tried to speak out against it just got downvoted and their comments hidden.
That's strange, because every time I've seen this dialog discussed, majority seemed to be frustrated by it. I suppose a lot of people just doesn't see this as the major issue and doesn't take it seriously, that's all. Besides, as many stated before, this issue is pretty easily fixable: just add one trigger and everyone is happy, so I think there is a good chance Larian would adress it at some point.
That depends where you read it. Here the majority of people are discussed, but if you go to reddit that's a whole different story. I think someone posted something about this SH/Halsin/Twins situations recently and the majority of people didn't seem to bothered it.
I said it earlier but I'm convinced there is no way they're ever going to change this.
There's a big reddit thread about companion drow twin interactions and the way people celebrate the way Halsin and Shadowheart react in that situation is just disgusting to me. Clearly there's only a small section of us that actually think this is an issue which is such a shame. And the few people that tried to speak out against it just got downvoted and their comments hidden.
That's strange, because every time I've seen this dialog discussed, majority seemed to be frustrated by it. I suppose a lot of people just doesn't see this as the major issue and doesn't take it seriously, that's all. Besides, as many stated before, this issue is pretty easily fixable: just add one trigger and everyone is happy, so I think there is a good chance Larian would adress it at some point.
That depends where you read it. Here the majority of people are discussed, but if you go to reddit that's a whole different story. I think someone posted something about this SH/Halsin/Twins situations recently and the majority of people didn't seem to bothered it.
I think I saw that post but typically I just see comments on other topics about it, sometimes it's a good discussion but I have also seen those who raise issues with the writing around this called incels, immature, cucks, liars or the like (in the post I think you're talking about that was going on in the replies). It's very hard to get anywhere after that. I prefer discussions here on the forums overall.
I think I saw that post but typically I just see comments on other topics about it, sometimes it's a good discussion but I have also seen those who raise issues with the writing around this called incels, immature, cucks, liars or the like (in the post I think you're talking about that was going on in the replies). It's very hard to get anywhere after that. I prefer discussions here on the forums overall.
Exactly what incentive is there to change anything about this when this is how the people that want it changed are viewed?
I hope Larian listens and makes some changes to Shadowheart. I'm fine with the poly thing being there (said thing should only be available to her through her Shar path) but... you should at least be able to talk to her about not wanting to share her and having a more monogamous relationship. After said conversation make it so she disapproves of any attempts to hook up with any other people or horny bears. I really hope this happens because it makes her romance for me feel cheapened because all of a sudden she wants us to share ourselves with everybody else with not much say from you unless you ignore it. So please make some simple changes to her by just adding some simple dialogue to tell her your not all right with it or leaving the poly stuff locked behind her Shar path.
That depends where you read it. Here the majority of people are discussed, but if you go to reddit that's a whole different story. I think someone posted something about this SH/Halsin/Twins situations recently and the majority of people didn't seem to bothered it.
If 99% of people aren't bothered by disregard for sexual consent, then 99% of people are still wrong.
I will remain with the 1% who are right regardless. Through persistence and clear factual evidence and context I was convinced to change my standpoint on this, so other people can be convinced as well.
That depends where you read it. Here the majority of people are discussed, but if you go to reddit that's a whole different story. I think someone posted something about this SH/Halsin/Twins situations recently and the majority of people didn't seem to bothered it.
If 99% of people aren't bothered by disregard for sexual consent, then 99% of people are still wrong.
I will remain with the 1% who are right regardless. Through persistence and clear factual evidence and context I was convinced to change my standpoint on this, so other people can be convinced as well.
Agreed. But at the end of the day, if there's only a 1% of people bothered by this, the chances of Larian doing something are really low. Even if this situation ruins the character (at least ruins it for me) I don't think they'll do anything about it.
While we are definetly not the majority, I don't think our number are low either, since I've seen a lot of people complaining(I suppose it really depends on the place of discussion). Besides, Larian policy is to make content even for 1-2% of the players, so I think they might fix it eventually. On that note, I remind everyone to leave feadback on the matter.
This really came out of nowhere, she was written as monogamous for most of the game, and suddenly after final romance scene she is poly.
If you reject Halsin he should not try to but in the relationship, maybe romance triggers are bugged.
I think the game does a poor job describing how companions really are (or the canonical point of views). I think a good way to show how they really are is through their approval system. Instead of just showing you they approved something, I think it'll be a good idea that in certain conversations that may reveal a hidden side of their personality, they can try to intervene and take 'control' of the conversation (basically switching from Tav to companion); that way you will learn something through them (maybe even give them special dialogues to show a hidden side of them).
You could still earn their approval, they'll show you an unknown side of them in a way that 'makes' sense and that could open the possibility of them talking about their preferences in the future, all of this while beign optional (you could simply choose not to switch from Tav to companion).
I dont know, it makes sense in my head. In fact I thought about this when interacting with the pain priest at the goblin camp. After seeing how she encouraged the priest to make my Tav 'repent', I just had to load a saved file and see her reaction when controlling her. Now when I see a companion having a 'very positive and encouraging' reaction, I got to load again and see how they act in that situation themselves.
Helps with my headcanon. lol
PS: But in all honesty, the game is done. I don't think they'll do much besides getting rid of bugs, making an Xbox version and fixing Karlach.
Don't think she is canonically poly, she will be what player chooses.
In my first playthrough, Tav didn't cheat on her, didn't enter relationship with Halsin ( he was always left in camp), didn't visit drow twins, and relationship was 100% monogamous.
If Tav don't cheat on her, she won't either, and she won't mention poly, i think Shadowheart (and Astarion) poly was included only because Halsin is poly (so he can be with somebody else beside Tav).
This really came out of nowhere, she was written as monogamous for most of the game, and suddenly after final romance scene she is poly.
If you reject Halsin he should not try to butt in the relationship, maybe romance triggers are bugged.
For me the Halsin romance option triggered before her final romance scene, so she was actually fine with me sleeping with Halsin before my first time with her. However, she's not okay with the drow twins before your first time together. Which also makes little sense, but the whole situation doesn't make much sense. In fact, it makes the writing all the more cringe too. She says something about cobwebbed loincloths if you aren't interested in Halsin.. lady, you've not even slept with us yet and you've traveled with us for so long and are in love with us. Which is wholesome, but also incredibly contradictory.
Originally Posted by Illiti
Don't think she is canonically poly, she will be what player chooses.
In my first playthrough, Tav didn't cheat on her, didn't enter relationship with Halsin ( he was always left in camp), didn't visit drow twins, and relationship was 100% monogamous.
If Tav don't cheat on her, she won't either, and she won't mention poly, i think Shadowheart (and Astarion) poly was included only because Halsin is poly (so he can be with somebody else beside Tav).
It's only the case if you bring Halsin along with you, aye, which is why I also didn't know of it until this thread. I did not bring Halsin along in my playthroughs.
But it is a problem for those that do bring Halsin along, and just a consistency issue.
Don't think she is canonically poly, she will be what player chooses.
In my first playthrough, Tav didn't cheat on her, didn't enter relationship with Halsin ( he was always left in camp), didn't visit drow twins, and relationship was 100% monogamous.
If Tav don't cheat on her, she won't either, and she won't mention poly, i think Shadowheart (and Astarion) poly was included only because Halsin is poly (so he can be with somebody else beside Tav).
I never said she was poly. However, she shows feelings for Karlach and definitely a sexual attraction to Halsin (I've read that on act 3 she got nasty banters with Wyll but I haven't see it). But that doesn't make her poly. If you take a monogamous path with her, you can still stumble upon the twin scene and if you got Halsin on your team (and meet others conditions). Well, all I can say is 'enjoy' the view. lol.
It would be nice if at some point in the adventure you find, I don't know, a painting of an orgy and she reacts to it and let player know she approves those situations. Or better yet, let her know if you're into those things or not, and that way, avoiding they drow situation.
I never said she was poly. However, she shows feelings for Karlach and definitely a sexual attraction to Halsin (I've read that on act 3 she got nasty banters with Wyll but I haven't see it). But that doesn't make her poly. If you take a monogamous path with her, you can still stumble upon the twin scene and if you got Halsin on your team (and meet others conditions). Well, all I can say is 'enjoy' the view. lol.
It would be nice if at some point in the adventure you find, I don't know, a painting of an orgy and she reacts to it and let player know she approves those situations. Or better yet, let her know if you're into those things or not, and that way, avoiding they drow situation.
The Karlach situation was in act 1. There's no romance yet, nor did she disobey Shar yet. The only act 3 dialogue with Wyll I remember is her taking the piss out of him regarding devils to the point that he calls her one. Was actually quite cruel.
And yes, I'd rather it was a player choice, than have them rewrite her to full on poly like Halsin is right now. Though it'd still make no sense anyway, she wants to go be a hermit on a farm with you (and her parents if you didn't disenchant them), yet she's okay with sleeping around for the sake of it? Doesn't sound right to me.
I think Shadowheart being "poly" could be a thing, but just as much I see her more into females in that regard. As with her wanting to be carried by Karlach etc... Which I found strange we cannot romance Shadowheart and Karlach together, seeing as they have good chemistry. As for how I played it; despite the initial heated relationship between Shadowheart and Lae'zel; I could see the three of them all together in a relationship 4way with our "tav" I was a female Drow. So it felt cohesive enough imo.
I'm not by means a Halsin fan, in fact I don't really like him at all and he just feels so very tacked on. I also didn't interact very much with him at all, So I hadn't gotten any voicelines from him either.
At the end of the day, we all have our beliefs and headcanons I suppose.
And yes, I'd rather it was a player choice, than have them rewrite her to full on poly like Halsin is right now. Though it'd still make no sense anyway, she wants to go be a hermit on a farm with you (and her parents if you didn't disenchant them), yet she's okay with sleeping around for the sake of it? Doesn't sound right to me.
She doesn't have to be full poly, in fact, I'd say she's not poly at all. I'd say she's attracted to Halsin, that's why she doesn't care if you sleep with him (and maybe opens an opportunity for her to do it at some point). If she were poly, she'd allowed you to have a relationship a least with Karlach (the other person she has shown to be attracted to) but that doesn't happen.
Edit: forgot to mention that in Mizora's scene, although she says she doesn't mind, she's clearly annoyed. It looks more like a 'if you cheated, I'll cheat too' situation, specially with what she says at the end about her needs.
The whole drow scene and the banter between her and Halsin AFTER you had sex with her (giving the context, that's the most disgusting banter in the game, IMO) was made to accommodate Halsin's poly relationship. And at the same time, destroying her character and development. She's probably the slowest romance in the game and suddenly wants participate in orgies and openly flirting next to the person she says to love so much. It's ridiculous.
@Ravenna_Ravager
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At the end of the day, we all have our beliefs and headcanons I suppose.
True. That's why all my Tavs, regardless of gender, are terrified of bears. And while trying to get the favor of the goblin's leaders, will kill a suspicious cave bear. lol
The whole drow scene and the banter between her and Halsin AFTER you had sex with her (giving the context, that's the most disgusting banter in the game, IMO) was made to accommodate Halsin's poly relationship. And at the same time, destroying her character and development. She's probably the slowest romance in the game and suddenly wants participate in orgies and openly flirting next to the person she says to love so much. It's ridiculous.
This, slowest romance, will break with Tav at any hint of infidelity in act 2, and suddenly she is into orgies, don't buy it, it's just there to accommodate Halsin.
Or you can headcanon it, that she agrees to orgies because she is afraid of losing Tav (after losing everything else in her life), first person who showed her kindness in who knows how long.
But there is still issue of her flirting with Halsin, they should remove that if Tav rejected Halsin.
At this point I'm basically just going to kill Halsin everytime if I can. Meanwhile I'd want to save Minthara every time, I wonder what that means. Hmmm.
I just don't think she should show any attraction to Halsin regardless, The dudes a tool and comes off as creepy just from his initial greeting or whatever.
[quote=NeedaUserName]Or you can headcanon it, that she agrees to orgies because she is afraid of losing Tav (after losing everything else in her life), first person who showed her kindness in who knows how long.
I can only headcanon what the game gives me, and the game clearly shows that she's attracted to him (possibly even more to him than your Tav). She's not afraid to lose Tav, she's excited by the chance of getting bear boy to bed. lol
But that's just me, people can play the game however they like. At the end of the day, it's just a game.
At this point I'm basically just going to kill Halsin everytime if I can. Meanwhile I'd want to save Minthara every time, I wonder what that means. Hmmm.
I just don't think she should show any attraction to Halsin regardless, The dudes a tool and comes off as creepy just from his initial greeting or whatever.
Ahh, you're a wise man (or woman) indeed. Welcome to the no-bears club. lol
This thread is still going!? Nice to see that people have finally caught up with this games not so stellar writing and poor decisions.
In my humble opinion I think that early access for BG3 has been a mistake, it gave Larian total freedom to experiment with different ideas and storylines without fully finishing any of them. Which gave life to the Frankenstein's monster of a story that we have now.
They felt the need to add certain options/choices for every player without thinking how it might affect what was previously written/established and that's how Shadowhearts story/romance ended up being the way it is now. (other companions have their problems also)
To be honest I lost interest in discussing BG3 and its problems/story (mainly because I think everything that could be said has already been said) but from time to time I do like to pop in and check what everyone is doing. And every time I do, Shadowheart and Halsin threads always make me laugh. How did the developers that claimed, scratch that, bragged about their romances being more mature ended up with such a mess. (professional intimacy coordinators pfft)
Just a quick rundown:
- Shadowheart has a sexual past during her brainwashing years as a Sharan acolyte. (so she's not a virgin as some might think and no, casual sex doesn't mean polyamory)
- Implies that she never had a relationship or at least a relationship where she felt as strongly as she does for the MC.
- Claims that she is not interested in sharing the MC with anyone and breaks up because of it.
- Calls the MC her true love and wants to spend the rest of her life with them.
- Contradicts the no sharing/you're the only one I want stance by saying that she never cared or wanted something loyal/pure during the Mizora scene and by flirting/wanting to have sex with Halsin.
- Bonus one because it makes me laugh. If you don't romance her she shows no interest in Halsin. (I see what you did there you cheeky writer)
When I look at her romance I see two possibilities. The Halsin thing was slapped on at the end without giving it any thought or she is meant to be a manipulative psycho that uses and lies to the MC. So which one is it?
- Shadowheart has a sexual past during her brainwashing years as a Sharan acolyte. (so she's not a virgin as some might think and no, casual sex doesn't mean polyamory)
Yup it's why her story works so well with Dark Urge. Now if only they solved the triggers in act 3.
Originally Posted by Rotsen
- Implies that she never had a relationship or at least a relationship where she felt as strongly as she does for the MC.
- Claims that she is not interested in sharing the MC with anyone and breaks up because of it.
- Calls the MC her true love and wants to spend the rest of her life with them.
Pretty much sums up why it doesn't make sense.
Originally Posted by Rotsen
- Contradicts the no sharing/you're the only one I want stance by saying that she never cared or wanted something loyal/pure during the Mizora scene and by flirting/wanting to have sex with Halsin.
Hadn't thought of it but yeah, for someone who's so devoted to us it's surprising she suddenly assumes we wouldn't be. But we already know that all the 'cheating' scenes in act 3 (drows, Halsin, Mizora, I bet she'd even be fine with Emperor and Haarlep if there was actual dialogue in those cases) are retconned for the sake of Halsin poly.
Originally Posted by Rotsen
When I look at her romance I see two possibilities. The Halsin thing was slapped on at the end without giving it any thought or she is meant to be a manipulative psycho that uses and lies to the MC. So which one is it?
That'd be quite the impressive dedication to that manipulation considering she ditches her goddess for us and faces all the dire consequences while keeping up the façade. Even the Dark Urge butler fell for it!
[quote=NeedaUserName]Or you can headcanon it, that she agrees to orgies because she is afraid of losing Tav (after losing everything else in her life), first person who showed her kindness in who knows how long.
I can only headcanon what the game gives me, and the game clearly shows that she's attracted to him (possibly even more to him than your Tav). She's not afraid to lose Tav, she's excited by the chance of getting bear boy to bed. lol
But that's just me, people can play the game however they like. At the end of the day, it's just a game.
I just vehemently disagree with everything you just said. She has multiple lines in the game telling you she wants to spend the rest of her life you Tav. She tells you your Tav you are the most important thing in her life, she tells your Tav she's changed as a person because of your Tav, and that she doesn't think she's even worthy of your Tav. Her greatest desire is moving to some secluded cottage with your Tav and her parents and even expresses wanting to have kids with your Tav so to say she's not scared of losing Tav is just ridiculous.
Don't try to make this Halsin thing into something more than it is. Is she attracted to him? Sure, but so are most companions you can find lines about Karlach and Wyll also showing attraction to him as well. But attraction doesn't matter it's actions and by all accounts there is no reason to believe she would ever act on anything with Halsin unless you agree to it as well and also with you involved in it. When you can go the entire game, like probably 95% of the people that romanced her did, without her saying a single thing about Halsin then saying she's more attracted to Halsin than your Tav is just completely asinine.
so to say she's not scared of losing Tav is just ridiculous.
I was referring specifically about the drow interaction, not her romance as a whole. Saying she doesn't want to lose Tav when she wants to sleep with Halsin feels wrong to me. And yes, it's a contradiction to everything you just wrote. At least in my opinion, of course.
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Don't try to make this Halsin thing into something more than it is.
I don't know in which part of my post I tried to do this, I even wrote...
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But that's just me, people can play the game however they like. At the end of the day, it's just a game.
But whatever.
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But attraction doesn't matter it's actions and by all accounts there is no reason to believe she would ever act on anything with Halsin unless you agree to it as well and also with you involved in it....
Agreed. Being in a relationship (in the real life) doesn't mean you won't get attracted to other people. I never implied that.
And yes, Tav agrees to a 4some with her and twins, not with Halsin. He simply appears and invites himself, and she's soo into it that seems out of character. You even get the disapprove reaction. So yes, that's risking a relationship for someone she's attracted to.
I'd imagine that scenario in real life ending in a divorce. But that's just me. Maybe you see things different? That's OK too.
Just a reminder because I see people just picking and choosing depending on their argument.
- Shadowheart finds Halsin attractive not matter what. (you find out about it mostly through her romance, either party banter or choosing to accept the twins offer with both Shadowheart and Halsin in the party)
- Shadowheart flirts with Halsin no matter what while in a relationship with the MC. (party banter)
- Shadowheart wont sleep with Halsin behind the MCs back or without MCs say so.
- Shadowheart will disapprove if you don't allow Halsin to join in on your foursome/fivesome.
- Shadowheart will mainly focus on Halsin during the fivesome.
- Shadowheart will be open to a poly relationship only with Halsin.
- Halsin will butt in and go for your romance (both Shadowheart and Astarion) no matter what even if you rejected him.
Now, I know a lot of people like to apply the 'out of sight, out of mind'/'I didn't see it so it didn't happen' argument but there is a bit of a problem with that. Shadowhearts attraction/flirting and interest in sleeping with Halsin is a fact, the only thing that is optional/player dependent is the sexual act. (poly/twins scenes)
She was written in a way that as soon as you enter ACT 3 and finish her romance she becomes receptive to Halsins advances. (same with Astarion) She is meant to have a flirty banter with Halsin and the only thing keeping her from having it is the player not using Halsin in the party. She is meant to have dreams and ideas of sleeping with Halsin and the only thing keeping the player from finding out is not going to the twins with Halsin there.
(I like the majority of players never knew about this in my Shadowheart romance run because for the majority of that run I never had both of them in my party. Like the majority of players I visited the twins only once at the beginning of ACT 3 and got the 'I want to sleep with you first' response from Shadowheart. But what made me aware of the whole situation is that after finishing her romance and at one point adding Halsin to the party the first thing I got as my party spawned in the city was the flirtation. Rest came from YouTube and other forums which I confirmed later on.)
Until they change this rather toxic situation, the only canon way of having Shadowheart not dream more of Halsin than your Tav, is by killing him before he gets to speak! ALL HAIL THE GOBLIN KIDS! They were just trying to secure your Tav's future!
Until they change this rather toxic situation, the only canon way of having Shadowheart not dream more of Halsin than your Tav, is by killing him before he gets to speak! ALL HAIL THE GOBLIN KIDS! They were just trying to secure your Tav's future!
Praise the sun! I mean... Praise One, little goblin that got oneshoted by horny bear. You dead wasn't in vain. Horny bear got killed (funnily enough) by SH, couldn't even talk with his corpse after she used Inflict Wound. lol
Hard agree on this, they at least should've added option in some conversation early in act 3(around her skinny dip scene timing) where you could say that you prefer full mono or something. That would place flag that you decided to go full mono and all that "interesting" things with Halsin wouldnt happen, also Mizora/Haarlep/Emperor flings would result in her massive disapproval if you ve chosen to go mono. At least thats how I d imagine this.
How you see your game and react to the things you don't like is of course entirely up to you. But this sort of re-hashes the old pointless argument that you can somehow play a single player game in the "wrong" way. What is the point of trying to convince me or others that I can't apply my own mindset to my own game?
I am 100% with you about this terrible writing and how it is shoehorned in as an afterthought because they decided they had to include poly and swinger sex just to satisfy a bunch of thirsty fans. And everything about it is really toxic and uncomfortable if you aren't interested in that and without any warning it gets pushed on you anyway if you make certain decisions. I find Halsin utterly disgusting and the whole fandom around him gives me toxic Christian Grey vibes (not his original fans that wanted him to be someone entirely different), so I just avoid him as much as I can and he doesn't ruin any of my relationships in the game for me. I understand entirely if your mindset is different and that my response as to how I deal with it isn't very helpful to you (or doesn't make any sense to you). I am not saying that you could just do what I do. You are who you are and not the same as me.
Can we focus more on the actual issues of the problematic and bad writing and not how everyone who are on the same side here has to play their own story.
I find the discussion here strange. Married women flirt in real life too, they dream too, it's not a bad thing if SH is interested in Halsin, even if she is in a relationship.
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. Yes, I vastly would have preferred Helia over Halsin or in fact any character, that didn't change personality completely, if you recruit them, but yeah, mostly Helia.
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