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member
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OP
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Joined: Aug 2023
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Am I missing something? What was that nautiloid, who sent it? How come it had those tadpoles modified by the Absolut? Since when Emperor was hiding in the artifact? When and why Emperor decided to protect our Main Character and other party members?
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
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Yeah, that's a bit of a thing that doesn't make sense in the plot as it currently is. If you play the Dark Urge, it is revealed that Orin had placed you there, and you were the only origin that wasn't kidnapped at random. So, the Nautiloid was in fact, under the control of the then subjugated Absolute The Emperor makes zero sense, at all. Don't even get me started, or it'll be the third thread where I start ranting. But. His being in the Prism is a very recent thing. Ehm, let's TRY and do this chronologically.
Orpheus and Vlaakith are enemies, Orpheus fought Vlaakith's dudes and was imprisoned in the Prism. Prism was in the care of Vlaakith's men, but Emperor stole it. Then, someone on either side of the Gith war must have taken it, because Shadowheart under orders of the Sharran Sect, stole it from the Githyanki. From there on, I think the Emperor just went with 'the adventurers that have the Prism', because otherwise it would fall in either the Absolute's hands, or the Gith's, and he hates both. Sometimes.
Fear my wrath, for it is great indeed.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Sep 2023
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Actually it does make sense if you consider that Orpheus
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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
Joined: Oct 2021
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The timeline for this game is really confusing. I’m waiting to complain about plot holes yet again until I finish my Durge run, which I think will give more answers, but the Nautilloid leaves me puzzled.
Also, how long has this plan been in motion assuming the Emperor is you know who? On the surface, it sounds like the Dead Three have been planning this for ten years tops, but then it sounds like the plan goes back to the original games, then it sounds like the plan predates the Troubles (Faerun, not Irish), then it sounds like the plan is 450 years in the making…
Remember the human (This is a forum for a video game):
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Sep 2023
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Here's my basic understanding of the plot, I could be way off but this is how I understood it. -The nautiloid was sent by The Absolute to kidnap people and put the latent tadpoles in them. Dark Urge is put there intentionally by Orin, Tav was kidnapped from Baldur's Gate.
-The tadpoles were modified so that they would stay latent in the host's body and not begin ceremorphosis immediately so that The Absolute (the Netherbrain I think?) could spread their influence and turn as many people as possible all at once. In act 2, if Gale blows himself up in the room with all the bad guys, the tadpoles all trigger at once and Baldur's Gate is overwhelmed by a horde of illithids.
-This is me speculating, but I suspect that the Emperor put himself into the prism because as an illithid who wasn't attached to the hive mind if he came into the elder brain's psychic influence he would have been dominated instantly and returned to the hive mind.
- This is the one I'm the least clear on, but I think he wants to either dominate the netherbrain himself and sees the main character as his best chance to, OR it's simply a matter of self preservation to avoid being returned to the hive mind or slaughtered by Orpheus.
Last edited by Nessius; 04/09/23 08:54 PM.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jul 2023
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Interesting question and some interesting interpretations but what about Isobel who is getting her mojo from Selune in the inn (and doesn't want to go with Marcus) but has an empty sarcophagus in the Thorm crypt and then shows up at the Ketheric Thorm fight (and still calls on the Moonmaiden for aid).
Nightsong who is she and where does she fit in? Nightsong, Nightsong, find the Nightsong. So you find the Nightsong and 1. She is killed by Shadowheart - are there any repercussions? Or 2. She is freed and she zooms off to attack Moonrise except that the next time you see her she is a captive again.
Why does the description of the three figures you get in Act 1 describe Goulash as a handsome you elf yet when you meet him he looks like he been living rough and and has a hangover of biblical proportions.
What's in it for the three stooges if they turn everyone into mindflayers?
Why can Winged Horrors fly in the attack on the inn but in the illithid colony under Moonrise you can push them into the chasm and to their death.
Tune in next week for more thrilling adventures . . .
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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
Joined: Oct 2021
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Here's my basic understanding of the plot, I could be way off but this is how I understood it. -The nautiloid was sent by The Absolute to kidnap people and put the latent tadpoles in them. Dark Urge is put there intentionally by Orin, Tav was kidnapped from Baldur's Gate.
-The tadpoles were modified so that they would stay latent in the host's body and not begin ceremorphosis immediately so that The Absolute (the Netherbrain I think?) could spread their influence and turn as many people as possible all at once. In act 2, if Gale blows himself up in the room with all the bad guys, the tadpoles all trigger at once and Baldur's Gate is overwhelmed by a horde of illithids.
-This is me speculating, but I suspect that the Emperor put himself into the prism because as an illithid who wasn't attached to the hive mind if he came into the elder brain's psychic influence he would have been dominated instantly and returned to the hive mind.
- This is the one I'm the least clear on, but I think he wants to either dominate the netherbrain himself and sees the main character as his best chance to, OR it's simply a matter of self preservation to avoid being returned to the hive mind or slaughtered by Orpheus.
Okay, all of what you've said is well-established in the game (particularly your 2nd, 3rd, and 4th points), but the first is confusing. Nautiloids were all but lost after the fall of the Illithid Empire. Did this particular Elder Brain just happen to have one on hand when it was dominated? Why would Gortash et al. waste it openly abducting people for tadpoling when it is such a valuable resource and they could just tadpole random people in the street? They clearly never needed the Nautiloid to kidnap and tadpole people, judging by the widespread influence of Gortash's network and the efficiency of the Bhaalists, to say nothing of Ketheric's abilities. Hell, one of Gortash's primary targets, Duke Ravengard, was kidnapped and tadpoled easily without the Nautiloid. Additionally, the Nautiloid made for one giant and easy target for the Githyanki.
Remember the human (This is a forum for a video game):
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2020
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And if you're carrying a super important magical artifact back to your base, why would you stop to do anything else, let alone something as attention-grabbing, pointless and possibly dangerous as abducting a bunch of random people from the streets of relatively major settlements in broad daylight?
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jul 2023
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Who cares when you can dye your underwear and have cute animals in your camp?
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Sep 2023
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I am tempted to do a playthrough where I highlight every single unanswered question... Once the majority of people have finished this game, the general mood will be one of dissatisfaction and bafflement.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2020
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Who cares when you can dye your underwear and have cute animals in your camp? Still no pettable cat. Unsat. -5/10.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Sep 2023
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- The nautiloid is a group project by Bane, Myrkul and Bhaal. They told their Chosen to steal the Crown and the Stone, guess who, the Dark Urge and his old companions, Ketheric and Garrosh. The brain and the nautiloid belongs to the time when the Emperor first capture. This answer question 1. - The initial plan is using the tadpoles to kill and gain power through the death's souls. Too bad, people who have transformed into Illithid lose their souls afterward, so the plan is doomed from the start, but ofc, nobody knows this. - Because of that, the Chosen Trio makes white tadpole by using the artifact Astral Prism. The prince of Gith is in there and has the ability to evolve the tadpole. Since the Trio already made Balduran, who has been an Illthid for a long time, their slaves, they used him and his psychic power to force the prince to make white tadpole and control the nautiloid. This answer question 2. - The elder brain knows about this plan so it makes an unpredicted move: it releases its Illithid connection with Balduran, and he wakes up and realizes he has been controlled by 'some people' for a long time, and if he does not use the Prince, he will lose his self-consciousness, again. - In the mean time, the group has a little... fall out. Bane wants his chosen to monopolize the stones, and Myrkul is like, 'I am depressed but whatever'. Orin knocked out the Dark Urge and tortured him over and over and over again below Moonrise Tower, to the point that he loses his personality and makes a new personality from scratch. That's why he has amnesia. However, because the Urge comes from his blood, he cannot control it. Orin replaces the Dark Urge. - The emperor tries to decipher the plan by watching the prince monitoring through the signal the controled Elder Brain sends to other tadpoles, which include the function to 'not ceremorphosis'. This forces him to stay inside the artifact, so he gives it to the Dark Urge. After that, the location of the nautiloid is revealed and alert both Shar and the Giths. This leads to the start of the Gith, Shadowheart's group, and other group's assault on that nautiloid. This answers question 3. - So, only Shadowheart successfully retrieves the artifact, but she gets captured afterward. Therefore, the Emperor uses the Giths to destroy the nautiloid and escapes. This is the start of the game.
Now, if your MAIN CHARACTER is not THE DARK URGE: - 1st: He will be killed personally by Orin in her bedroom instead of being thrown into Moonrise Tower after she gets bored with him. - 2nd: Emperor will choose from 6 other origin characters to ally with one of them. Please do remember that each of the 6th is the slave to powerful patrons. For example, Shar enslaves Shadowheart, Bane and Zariel are behind Karlach and Wyll, Gale simps Mystra, etc. If you play the Dark Urge, your minion will tell you that your lover's patrons are fighting over gods and other entities because of their fate. - This leads to the fact that the artifact will always fly to the main character, even though Shadowheart tries to keep it hidden. This also explains why the patrons suddenly become arsehole and change their minds after they get acquainted with the main character (For example, Mytra tried to kill Gale with the Warppoint if you do not save him). This answers question 4. P/s: Mindflayers are not extincted. There are lots of them out there. The problem is they cannot cross to Material Plane because they lost the knowledge to make plane-crossing nautiloid after 13th century. However, lots of them are still out there chilling in Waterdeep and who knows where.
Last edited by BlueLycan; 04/09/23 10:39 PM. Reason: add spoiler tag
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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
Joined: Oct 2021
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The timeline for this game is really confusing. I’m waiting to complain about plot holes yet again until I finish my Durge run, which I think will give more answers, but the Nautilloid leaves me puzzled.
Also, how long has this plan been in motion assuming the Emperor is you know who? On the surface, it sounds like the Dead Three have been planning this for ten years tops, but then it sounds like the plan goes back to the original games, then it sounds like the plan predates the Troubles (Faerun, not Irish), then it sounds like the plan is 450 years in the making… What makes the most sense right now is that the Elder Brain existed in the vicinity of the Sword Coast for at least four centuries. During this time, it turned Balduran and made it part of the collective. Troubles happen. Bhaal leaves pieces of himself everywhere. Troubles end. Bhaal and the rest of the Dead Three reconstituted after the death of Gorion's Ward around 1482 (judging by Adrian's death). The Second Sundering happens the same year, and the recently revived Dead Three, reluctant to cease interfering in mortal affairs, accept their new status as quasi-divine beings in exchange for maintaining their mundane influence. Likely upset with their now limited divinity, the Dead Three IMMEDIATELY start the plan, with Myrkul going to Ketheric directly (giving him time to develop his capabilities), Bane going to Gortash immediately (selling Karlach to Zariel 10 years prior to 1492), and Bhaal already instructing Sarevok vis-a-vis Orin as a child. The Vault is raided with the direct help of the Dead Three, and the Three Avatars likely use the Crown of Karsus on the Elder Brain within a year of the return of Bhaal. This Elder Brain just had a Nautiloid laying around and Gortash and Orin, being the chaotic children that they are, found the concept of using it amusing.
Edit: Bigger implication is that Jergal knew of this plan centuries, maybe millennia, in advance. Which means Jergal knew of the Second Sundering and the Time of Troubles in advance. Which means Jergal knows the will of Ao before Ao even does anything. Which, all other things being equal, makes Jergal not just omniscient on par with the other gods, but omniscient on a level on par with Ao. Which likely means Jergal knows everything.
Last edited by Zerubbabel; 04/09/23 10:43 PM.
Remember the human (This is a forum for a video game):
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
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In a different thread, we're discussing 'how things originally were intended' and I suspect this has a lot to do with all this.
Any good adventure story introduces what it's about in the opening sequence. That's why Game of Thrones starts with the White Walkers, Star Wars with Darth Vader chasing Leia, Fellowship with Sauron and the Ring and so forth. I believe that years ago, when they made the opening cinematic as a trailer - the plans for the plot were a lot different. I think, that originally, the Emperor was literally the leader of the remaining Illithid Empire, which is about to get utterly wiped out by the Gith. Indeed, as pointed out somewhere here, the emperor's armor is a fair bit distinct from the other Illithid you encounter, but is exactly that one from the trailer/cinematic. With that, you were intended as the Emperor's Chosen One, but, well, you know. You're also otherwise engaged to Vlaakith, Mystra, Shar, Mizora or otherwise Vampowered.
As the narrative was changed and Daisy the seductive Illithid Dream character was integrated with the Emperor, who also suddenly turned into someone else for just one line of unnecesary dialogue, the Nautiloid made a whole lot less sense - but not so much that they'd scrap it and redo all the expensive cinematics.
it's a... Well. It's a bit of a 'let's not think about it too much' kind of thing, now.
Fear my wrath, for it is great indeed.
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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
Joined: Oct 2021
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In a different thread, we're discussing 'how things originally were intended' and I suspect this has a lot to do with all this.
Any good adventure story introduces what it's about in the opening sequence. That's why Game of Thrones starts with the White Walkers, Star Wars with Darth Vader chasing Leia, Fellowship with Sauron and the Ring and so forth. I believe that years ago, when they made the opening cinematic as a trailer - the plans for the plot were a lot different. I think, that originally, the Emperor was literally the leader of the remaining Illithid Empire, which is about to get utterly wiped out by the Gith. Indeed, as pointed out somewhere here, the emperor's armor is a fair bit distinct from the other Illithid you encounter, but is exactly that one from the trailer/cinematic. With that, you were intended as the Emperor's Chosen One, but, well, you know. You're also otherwise engaged to Vlaakith, Mystra, Shar, Mizora or otherwise Vampowered.
As the narrative was changed and Daisy the seductive Illithid Dream character was integrated with the Emperor, who also suddenly turned into someone else for just one line of unnecesary dialogue, the Nautiloid made a whole lot less sense - but not so much that they'd scrap it and redo all the expensive cinematics.
it's a... Well. It's a bit of a 'let's not think about it too much' kind of thing, now. Idk, Dead Three iconography was featured pretty early in EA. The Emperor's plot being more Illithid-focused makes sense, but I think the main idea of the game was always going to be centered on Baldur's Gate and Bhaal in some way.
Remember the human (This is a forum for a video game):
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
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Oh for certain, but that bit needn't have changed.
Fear my wrath, for it is great indeed.
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member
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member
Joined: Oct 2020
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I feel like a lot of these takes aren't based on what we learn from Gortash's books in Act 3. Gortash and co. find out about the Astral Prism, referring to it as the only thing that can disrupt their control of the Elder Brain, and that it is in Vlaakith's possession. They send the Emperor and a team of tadpoled thralls aboard a nautiloid to steal the artifact from the Gith. Viconia catches wind of this and sends Shadowheart and co. to get the artifact first. Gortash's team steals the artifact, and the Absolute releases control of the Emperor (for some reason.) Leading the Emperor to believe the Prism freed him. The Gith pursue the nautiloid, which reaches Baldur's Gate, and the fight continues through the planes, including Avernus. A bunch of people are abducted throughout this time, including from as far as Waterdeep. The Emperor ends up in the Prism (after potentially tadpoling the player) without anyone noticing. Tav and co. escape, nautiloid crashes, etc.
Honestly, if they changed Daisy, the Emperor, Absolute, etc. then I think the beginning is likely less coherent now.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2020
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I think the story would have worked just fined if
we didn't have the Orpheus Ex Machina and the ceremorphosis delay was just explained as the physical artifact being the source of transformation resistance. Then, make it only temporary resistance and in order to avoid a transformation ending, you must stave off Illithid power use.
Leave the Chosen Three and Elder Brain encounter as is with the Nether Stones working just fine without an illithid.
Just remove the fucking Illithid reliance to defeat the Netherbrain and the non-sensical Emperor vs. Orpheus bullshit. Orpheus can continue to be just a prisoner in the artifact we are interested in releasing for Lazael's storyline and the Emperor can continue being a guy who tempts you toward evolution and is just a lawful evil guy tagging along to defy the Netherbrain.
Last edited by Zenith; 05/09/23 12:01 AM.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
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Well, yeah. I mean, they used to say that 'Power ought to come at a cost'
It would have been awesome if they said; 'You will need Illithid powers!' and you jsut went full Commander Paragon Shepard "It'll be tough, but i'll take my chances.", and get a better non-illithid ending if yoiu succeeded without it.
Fear my wrath, for it is great indeed.
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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
Joined: Oct 2021
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I feel like a lot of these takes aren't based on what we learn from Gortash's books in Act 3. Gortash and co. find out about the Astral Prism, referring to it as the only thing that can disrupt their control of the Elder Brain, and that it is in Vlaakith's possession. They send the Emperor and a team of tadpoled thralls aboard a nautiloid to steal the artifact from the Gith. Viconia catches wind of this and sends Shadowheart and co. to get the artifact first. Gortash's team steals the artifact, and the Absolute releases control of the Emperor (for some reason.) Leading the Emperor to believe the Prism freed him. The Gith pursue the nautiloid, which reaches Baldur's Gate, and the fight continues through the planes, including Avernus. A bunch of people are abducted throughout this time, including from as far as Waterdeep. The Emperor ends up in the Prism (after potentially tadpoling the player) without anyone noticing. Tav and co. escape, nautiloid crashes, etc.
Honestly, if they changed Daisy, the Emperor, Absolute, etc. then I think the beginning is likely less coherent now. Ah, forgot about Gortash’s Vault in the Counting House. That clears up the use of the Nautiloid, but why bother spending so much time snatching people up? How did Shart get the Artifact if the Emperor got it first? Shouldn’t it have been grab the Artifact, gtfo, lay a trap for the pursuing Githyanki using their overwhelming means?
Remember the human (This is a forum for a video game):
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