Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Build Discussion Moon Druid Subclass Implementation: Discussion & Feedback

You’re missing out. Druid is weaker but it’s still a lot of fun and completely viable with all subclasses. Just like normal D&D, you don’t need to optimize and min max to have a great time.

Also, I wouldn’t expect much in the way of balance patches. Fixing bugs, yes, but this isn’t some live service game that needs constant tinkering to balance out. Some classes are just stronger than others, and to some extent it’s probably just going yo stay that way.

This is not just balance. During recruiting Minsc, you gotta knock him out with a non-lethal. My character was in wildshape, and the cutscene for knocking him out had a seizure as it couldn't pick me for Jaheira to address. Minsc reappeared just there with a failed cutscene, and another non-lethal attack actually killed him and made her angry at me. Had to restart the whole encounter. This has happened in several encounters, where the game either screws you out of dialogue and addresses your companion, or the scene bugs out altogether and skips.

The biggest problem for me is lack magic items that bloody work for Moon Druid + features + feats.

In RAW 5e, Moon Druid has got spikes of power at levels 2 and 10. They also get access to spells like Conjure Animals, Polymorph (turn ally into a giant APE), etc. Tasha really helped them.

On top of that, itemization is not that important in tabletop. However in BG 3, items are incredibly important. You can do some crazy builds with items, like going full poison with relevant items. In tabletop the best magic items you get are: Moon Sickle for spell DC and spell attack rolls + belt of giant strength, which should carry over to wildshape.

Some combinations in BG 3 are disgusting. I made Laezel into thrower with returning Pike and she deals about 20 damage per hit and it's not even that optimized. She also has got like 90% hit rate, compared to 65% of Moon Druid.

The only things that work are potions, which are everywhere. Moon Druid in particular should be able to benefit from Magic Items in Wildshape, at least some of them. Instead of that we end up with a class that’s great at being a meat shield and average at everything else.

It's an easy solution too. Literally turn magic passive effects on in wildshape like extra saving throws or inability to be crit/paralyzed, you know effect auras, and then for the damage rolls let wild shapes benefit from the monk unarmed bonuses. Just treat wildshaped attacks as unarmed attacks and let them benefit from the monk magic items.

Then let moon druids recast concentration spells in wildshape. Moon druid Wildshape should also have a passive that lets them use oils/venoms.

I'm actually fine with most magical items not working for moon druids, as long as there are some to be found that can be useful. Both finding items that we can use despite the limitations, and working out how to do without them, are things I think that can make the moon druid feel very unique to play. Items that have an effect for a few turns (like the helmet that gives Momentum for a few turns) could come into their own, though it's annoying I think that Wrath doesn't work with wildshape attacks (or at least it didn't in EA).

The problem I had in EA was that there weren't enough such items that a clever moon druid could find ways to use. And as I've not had a moon druid in my party for my first playthrough, I've not been paying attention to whether this has been addressed at all. And the only item that has jumped out at me as being designed specifically for wildshaping druids is the Armour of Moonbasking in act 3.

(And of course the bug that means equipment bonuses are lost until items are unequipped and equipped again after wildshaping definitely needs fixed.)

Oh, and slightly related, the other way to get benefits is from feats, and I wish the game would make much clearer which feats work on wildshapes and which don't. And potentially some feats that don't help wildshapes should, but as it's not clear which do and don't I'm not sure about that.

Btw, one top tip I discovered for an early game moon druid I discovered in my EA run just in case people haven't spotted it, is that - as long as it hasn't been nerfed - the homebrewed Flaming Sphere in BG3 is basically a pretty tanky summon. It's a concentration spell so vulnerable to issues with that, but if sent in ahead of your wildshaped druid can help attract aggro to maintain concentration and also counts as an ally for the Wolf form's Pack Tactics. And it can move by itself on its own turn rather than needing a druid action to move it, so it doesn't have the same problem as Heat Metal, Call Lighting and Moonbeam (other spells that should be useful for Moon Druids but aren't). It doesn't do a massive amount of damage per turn - it's certainly no fireball - but I think used in conjunction with a druid's wildshape and with a bit of luck on the concentration rolls, can help moon druids be much more effective in melee.

Flaming Sphere and Spiritual Weapon work in the same manner, last I checked. Both got initiative, Health, etc. So enemies tend to focus on them. As for the items, RAW 5e most don’t work for Moon Druid, which is fine. However in recent books, many feats and items are added, which work really well, here are some examples from rpgbot.

Link: https://rpgbot.net/dnd5/characters/classes/druid/#magic-items

Magic items:

1. Barrier Tattoo (Uncommon)TCoE: Most druids should stick to studded leather unless you can get a better tattoo, but Circle of the Moon may find that this boosts their AC in certain forms.

2. Barrier Tattoo (Rare)TCoE: AC is among the Druid’s biggest problems, and matching the AC of Half-plate without wearing metal armor is an absolutely massive improvement to the Druid, especially since this works in Wild Shape. It hurts that it costs a Rare item to do it, but it’s hard to argue with how effective this is.

3. Belt of DwarvenkindDMG: Maybe appealing for Circle of the Moon, I think this might still apply during Wild Shape. Adding Darkvision and poison resistence to beasts which don’t normally get it is really nice, though the +2 Constitution won’t have much impact since your beast forms will have few hit dice.

4. Belt of Giant Strength (Hill)DMG: This works while using Wild Shape, which is mechanically amazing and conceptually hilarious. Imagine using Wild Shape to run into a mouse with 21 Strength. Once you’ve had a sensible chuckle about that, consider how many wild shape forms give up some Strength-based attack and damage bonus for durability or special abilities (Pack Tactics, Flyby, etc.).

Feats:

1. Gift of the Chromatic DragonFToD: Chromatic Infusion should be shared with allies unless you’re going for Circle of Spores, and even then your allies with Extra Attack will benefit more. Reactive Resistance is largely redundant with Absorb Elements, but it’s uniquely appealing for Circle of the Moon since you can use it while wild shaped.

2. Gift of the Gem DragonFToD: Great for Circle of the Moon because you can use Telekinetic Reprisal while Wild Shaped. Circle of Spores might also benefit, but you already get a way to use your Reaction every turn so there’s little need for this in your action economy.

3. MobilePHB: All of the effects apply while you’re in Wild Shape. Forms like Goat and Elephant which have a useful Charge or Pounce effect become immensely more useful when you can safely move away and set up for another round of charging. If you just need an escape mechanism, look for Wild Shape forms with Flyby like the Owl and you won’t need to bother with Mobile.

4. TelepathicTCoE: Tempting for Circle of the Moon, this nicely solves the issue of communication while using Wild Shape, and since you still get a Wisdom increase the feat’s cost is reduced.

As you can see, most of the items aren't even that rare. Per rpgbot: "In my opinion, anything which is part of your character’s body like claws, natural armor, or damage resistances doesn’t work while in Wild Shape. Anything your character knows, like proficiency in something, specific training granted by a feat like Mobile or Actor, or something inherent to your character’s personality, culture, or anything else non-physical like the Lucky feat or the halfling Lucky trait should still apply in Wild Shape. But, as in any case where there is a question, your Dungeon Master makes the final decision. Be sure to talk to your DM before making any decisions about your build."

I started the game as Moon druid intending to play around wildshape combat. Here is my feedback after 150 hours (still in act 3) and why I switched away:

- RP downsides: - People in towns will run away from you if you maintain bear form (same goes for summons) which is annoying
- You will lose your wild shape form when entering some scripted dialogue. If that was your last shape charge before a forced combat, that's an oopsie

- Build downsides: You get less spells and slots, but in return your wildshape loses impact in the final stages of act 2. Mobs will make you lose the form rather easily, and most of the times I found myself with 50% chances to hit while in owl bear form (and of course missing the majority of times). Not great. You are basically a glorified meat piñata. Sabertooth feels okayish but you trade too much health away and the regen bonus is not that great, not very relevant when you get it that late.
Most of the feats do not affect Wildshape. I've done my fair share of research and tons of videos and other sources state that Wildshape benefits from Unarmed combat gear/feats. Well that is currently not true, and idk if this is a feature or a bug. Only tavern brawler seems to be half-working (applies to chance to hit but no bonus damage). Also there should be a disclaimer somewhere stating that Claws and such are equivalent to Unarmed combat (or that they are not). I was pretty lost on that matter at the beginning. My druid is half-orc and not only you do not get the benefits from its racial passive, but you do not get ANY bonus since you do not get benefited from Unarmed build-style. This is obviously a problem. Are Claws a Weapon or Unarmed? If they are neither, where is the Claw gear?
My first feat pick as Moondruid was Mobile, and it just does not apply to it. Wildshape plains stats should be way better if you are not getting anything from your feats and gear.

- Gear downsides: You get almost nothing from gear. You can get that shapeshifter ring and that's pretty much it. All that unarmed combat gear does not apply to you in this current version of the game, at least damage-wise

- Tool-box downsides: You are specialized in wildshape but I found myself saving those almost always for combat. Cat is useful for the small holes but otherwise I never used wolf form (its just worse than bear form and on top of that you scare shadowheart with it). Badger? Never used it. Raven only used it once and that's only before i got summon familiar into my party comp. My point is you get all these so-called options and you end up just going Owl-bear every time and even then it's not that good.

In conclusion, this may be one of the best games I ever played, but sadly I picked a rather bad subclass for my first playthrough, please send some love to all the bear fans out there!

The bugs surrounding druids have severely traumatized my first real experience with a D&D like game. I spent many hours picking my race and class to play with a friend, but I have been severely left behind in terms of damage output and role-playing because of the issues with this class. Now that I've done more research into it, I can see why many loyal table top fans are disappointed with this classes implementation. It is so far away from what people would be used to. From the perspective of someone new to the franchise, I just want to give up.

Many of the problems have already been adequately discussed here, but I have to re-emphasize how bad it is. Here are my main gripes:

Druids cannot re-cast their concentration spells in Wild Shape. Spending a spell slot (which are valuable as they can only be recovered during long rest) for it to become really mediocre after I transform is just NOT FUN. Even if it is a spell that I don't even need to move (e.g. Spike Growth) I will most likely just lose it as druid's don't keep their AC when they transform.

Most of the feats simply do not work as advertised during Wild Shape and honestly infuriates me when I spent almost an hour deciding which one I actually wanted.

Some Wild Shapes feel completely useless when you level up higher and it sucks that they don't keep their value for longer than a couple of levels.

The Owlbear Crushing Flight skill is completely inaccessible if you play controller (yep that's me). Imagine my frustration when I discovered this after 20 hours.

I've also since learned that Primal Strike, the ability you get at level 6, is COMPLETELY BUGGED and does not work!

Guidance doesn't work when transformed, so I can't help my party with ability checks.

I was also quite tilted when I tried transforming into a Deep Rothe to break through the boulders to get to didn't work

I really wanted to play Moon Druid, but it clearly feels like an unfinished class and I can't continue to play it it's current state. Doing multiplayer it's rather embarassing how little I contribute to a fight as I've ended up basically playing a more supportive role and not wanting to transform at all and even that feels mediocre at best. Please give Druid the love and support they so desperately need.

I know your pain, it was my first class too.

My advice? Respec to something else. If you are the host, playing as a barbarian is very fun, you yell at people a lot and the texts are pure ham. That or any class with charisma

Alternatively, if you want to deal a lot of damage, take a fighter with tavern brawler and kill people with throwing spears, etc. That or Paladin for those juicy smites.

Spore druid is workable with the armor on Act 3 and the necromancy staff from Mystic Carrion, but that's about it. It's still just a way worse Wizard/Sorc/Warlock.

And Melee classes just blow both casters and druid/rangers away since they get so many power spikes with items and legendary weapons on top of getting so many extra attacks because of the way Haste works on top of it. Paralyze granting autocrit also makes it super easy for melee to do unholy amounts of damage with Crawler Venom or the paralysis grenades.

It's been feedback since EA that Fighters were blowing everything out of the water, and then they brought in monks and paladins to do even more burst while the other classes are a joke and barely have any dedicated legendary gear.

To add one more thing to the discussion, Druids can't use most items when they wildshape, which is fine in tabletop, as the itemization is not that important and some items were introduced by later books.

In Baldur's Gate 3, items are the way your characters can get stronger in the wildshape. Not only the number of items that the druid can use in Wildshape is terrible, you don't get most of them till ACT 3!!! In act 2 you are pretty much swimming in magical swag to gear your entire party, but Moon Druids in particular get nothing to help their forms.

Here are the 3 items, that actually wildshapes can use:

a) Shapeshifter's Boon Ring is an uncommon Ring that grants the wearer +1d4 on all checks made while shapeshifted or disguised.

b) Corvid Token is a very rare Amulet that increases jump distance and flying speed, grants the Polymorph: Dire Raven action, and grants Feather Fall while Polymorphed or Wild Shaped.

c) Armour of Moonbasking is a very rare Light Armour bought from Voiceless Penitent Bareki that bestows Temporary Hit Points and Armour Class to its wielder when they Wild Shape.

2 of these items appear only in ACT 3, at which point the game is already finished. Sure you can get plenty of items for typical caster druid, but Moon Druid? Not really.

And the corvid token is useless anyways, since by the time you get it in Act 3 you are using myrmidons, which have teleport and fly, so extra jump distance is more than worthless. You also don't need featherfall because the boots of mystra from the Underdark arcane tower give featherfall to the whole group with zero cooldown period, and the only time you use Featherfall is outside combat anyways, so you can unequip them after.

Even worse, the armors we do get for druid in Act 3 are TERRIBLE. Moonbasking bugs half the time and gives lower AC, so you gotta re-equip it.

The Spore Druid and Land Druid robes are even worse. The Spore druid one gives a pitiful advantage on necromancy spell, of which you only have Blight, pretty mediocre, since Spore druid was not given Dethrone or Circle of Death. On top of that, the robe gives a pitiful 1 extra damage on necromancy spells. You read that right, 1 extra damage on a necromancy spell, while martials are getting 4-6 extra damage on their gloves and boots left and right. Spores are terrible anyways, druid damage for all specs just doesn't scale past Act 2 at all. Our damage spellbook is terrible, Sunbeam does half the damage of a chain lightning or upcasted magic missiles. Thorn Wall is so bad. We don't get extra spell slots at lv12.

Land druid gets a useless robe that gives +1 spell DC and 4-6 HP healed any turn you are standing in plant growth terrain. What garbage. By act 3, enemies are multiattacking for 20-30 damage. You really think standing in plant growth for 4-6 healing is even noticeable? And that's the entire bonus.

The three single druid centric robes, and they all suck. Lower AC, pitiful and niche effects on a mediocre damage, mediocre utility, mediocre healing/buffing class.

THERE IS NOT A SINGLE DRUID LEGENDARY WEAPON. I REPEAT, NOT A SINGLE DRUID CENTRIC LEGENDARY OR VERY RARE STAFF IN THE GAME.

And while we're at it, Moon druids and Spore druids should get extra attack passives for their humanoid forms as well. They are literal minions outside wildshape, and spore druid doesn't even do any meaningful damage with the spores.

The helm that gives +1 wildshape charge from Act 3 has a worthless +1 Nature on it. WHY? Nature is by far the most useless stat in the game, I think the last check that happened with Nature was in the Myconid colony. There are certainly no Nature checks in the entirety of Act 3, and I can't recall any on Act 2, and you can't even obtain this hat in Act 2 anyways.

By the way, the hat wildshape charge does not work on Halsin. He does not get an extra charge. Just like how he does not get Call Lightning and Healing Word as actual spells in the spellbook, but garbage passive spells on the left pane that can't be upcasted, so healing word stuck as a lv1 spell for a worthless 1-7 healing, and a lv3 Call Lightning passive spell he can't upcast, so enjoy 17 damage Call Lightnings on Act 3 with enemy HP pools ranging from 80-90+ and boss pools at the 225-666 HP range.

EDIT: While we're on the topic of bad druid mechanics and weak class implementation. Spore druid's Symbiotic Entity, which consumes a wildshape charge, DOES NOT STACK WITH OTHER SOURCES OF TEMPORARY HP. That means that if you have the Tharciate Codex buff from Necromancy of Thay giving you 20 temporary HP, your Symbiotic Entity cast sets the bonus HP to 48. They do not stack.

In other words, you are only getting 28 bonus HP from your wildshape charge. Not only was Symbiotic Entity bad already by only giving about half the hp of most lv10+ wildshapes, but it doesn't even stack with other sources of temporary HP and loses value with any other necromantic buffs like False Life or Tharciate Codex.

Temporary HP is not supposed to stack. It's that way in the TT version.

Temporary HP is not supposed to stack. It's that way in the TT version.

This does nothing to address my statement that the way it's design highly devalues the Symbiotic Entity ability. Just because something exists a way in the TT does not make it good. Elves and half orcs borrow their OP racials relative to other races from the TT as well, and monks were garbo in the TT, which is why Larian changed them.

We are not in theology class, the rulebook is not a bible to be followed for a PC game, gameplay balance and design comes first.

Are special abilities gained during wild shape suppose to use the Charisma modifier when calculating the DC?

According to RPG division, it currently does and he recommends buffing charisma in your druid build because of it. Source

From the perspective of a beginner, this seems really unusual and not very intuitive.

I have 14 charisma on my druid mostly because I wanted him to be my face character and knew there was a 17 intellect helm in Act 1, so I could set int to 9 and str to 8 and have maxed wis, and both high dex and charisma. Doesn't surprise me there's yet one more handicap for wildshapes with a stat most druids won't have.

Tiefling racials also still continue to use charisma checks for their spells despite the ASI update, unlike Dragonborn who were updated to use their attack roll and the damage scales with level unlike the tiefling spells. Conjure flame blade is trash anyways since it unequips your main weapon, and that means the special effects from that item are removed, plus the flame blade scales like crap and upcasting seems to have no effect on it.

This sounds very false. Instead of just wildly conjecturing though, I tested it out. This moon druid has 20 WIS and 8 in other mental stats. I checked Dilo and Owlbear abilities, since some of those were explicitly mentioned in the video:

Those DC 17's match the spellcasting DC modified by WIS, definitely not modified by CHA. I checked some of the myrmidon abilities - the more spell-like ones were scaling off of WIS.

I also checked what happened if the druid had 20 CHA and 8 WIS. As expected, all the ability DC's were lower at DC 11. None were using the CHA modifier. That information from that video is definitely false.

Thanks for doing this!

I went back through his video and I think I found the issue. His WIS and CHA modifiers are both set to 16. The game probably selects your highest stat when wild shaped and because they are tied it picked CHA.

Just a guess, but it would be consistent with your findings.