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member
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Joined: Sep 2019
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Ah, nono, the lead-up to that... It serves to further hammer home the idea that she'd much rather die in Baldur's Gate than ever return to Avernus. It's almost like she has made up her mind and won't let you decide her fate for her. It's almost as if she doesn't accept that anyone would force her to live in literal Hell (again). It's almost as if people need to learn to respect her choice. Larian has improved THE ending that we have in the game NOW. That doesn't mean they won't work on a new ending. All this doomposting is ridiculous. What did people really expect on such short notice? The game was released a month ago, we had two patches, one of them improved the ending by making her stance clearer. Because there are so many options for trying to fix her engine, any new content would obviously take more time. Just wait. They have already said they have called in the voice actors again - for what do you think that is, if not for "tying loose ends" as they put it?
Last edited by Raz415; 07/09/23 01:51 PM.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Aug 2023
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That argument would have a lot more weight if people were arguing she should be sent to Hell, but... no one is, as far as I can tell. Karlach isn't suicidal. She doesn't choose to die, she'd rather die than go back to Avernus. There's a huge difference.
How is it not "respecting her choice" to want an option for her to not die, when she's literally always talking about how much she loves being alive?
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member
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Joined: Sep 2019
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With the content in the game now, it is impossible to fix the engine, full stop. Of course her reaction reflects that. Everyone knows (including Larian, as it is stated in the patch 2 notes) that people want more options. I really have a hard time seeing why people keep coming back to bash the writing, call it a tragedy trope or tragedy-baiting or bring their personal lives into the thread.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Aug 2023
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Respectfully, you appear to be replying to something I never said. I never brought up anything about tragedy-baiting. I also agree that it'll take time, but Larian appears to be aware of the problem. I've said so explicitly.
All I was saying is it doesn't make much sense to complain people who want a better ending for Karlach aren't respecting her wishes, because what they're looking for seems to be perfectly in line with what she says she wants.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Sep 2023
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I've gotten some new (to me) dialogue with Karlach in Acts I and II - very short scenes which emphasize the increasingly desperate nature of her condition. But... her condition isnt even that bad... It's very much that bad, which the new scenes are mostly there to emphasize, I think. It's not physically debilitating at the moment - for gameplay reasons, I'm sure - and you can even throw soul coins on the fire with perfect safety. But she's in pain and her time is short. No its not lol ,and even if it was there is a plethora of ways to fix her but we aren't allowed to explore them
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Aug 2023
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Bro why are you still here defending your opinion against people who clearly disagree with you? Nothing better to do with life?
You made your point why you think the current endings are fine -> people disagree -> you keep on trying to converse people like you're some Anti-Karlach-Church Pope -> people still disagree -> you're still here reaching for the stars in order to explain why you shouldnt be able to fix her.
For someone that claims to have good DND knowledge you seem to not get the point that so many fix possibilities are arleady hinted inside BG3. But what can I say, haters gonna hate - right?
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Sep 2023
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I really don't understand what point you're arguing anymore my man. You admit that Larian has already said they want to add more options based on people's feedback. No one here as far as I can see is denying that. If Larian is adding more endings based on player feedback, and this is a feedback post, why are you attacking people for giving feedback based on why they dislike the current ending? If people use their own life and experience to identify with a character, why exactly are you assailing them for disagreeing with a writing choice? We understand that you like the current endings and think that they're fine, no one here agrees with you, and that is not likely to change. You really don't seem to have an actual argument besides vapid white knighting for a company no one is attacking.
Last edited by Nessius; 07/09/23 04:28 PM.
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Aug 2023
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I think you may have the wrong idea about this, literally nobody wants this done yesterday. Quite the contrary as the last 2-3 pages of this very thread indicate, everyone's saying that we'd be more than willing to wait, because we understand that good things come in time. And if you want to argue against the change based on undercooked content again, well... that's very shaky ground onto which to build anything. Other than this, I'd say we all have the right to vent in a safe and understanding environment populated by people who get what it feels like. I get that you may not care as much about this as anyone else, but I don't understand why you are so combative over literally people chatting... Edit: to respond to your argument, I think you may be missing the point of this thread entirely, as her desire is precisely why we're pining for a happy ending in which we fix her heart - to allow her to continue living outside Avernus.
Last edited by Arkaelus; 07/09/23 04:58 PM.
Justice for Karlach
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Aug 2023
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With the content in the game now, it is impossible to fix the engine, full stop. Of course her reaction reflects that. Everyone knows (including Larian, as it is stated in the patch 2 notes) that people want more options. I really have a hard time seeing why people keep coming back to bash the writing, call it a tragedy trope or tragedy-baiting or bring their personal lives into the thread. Because it's art. People have every right to resonate with a piece of art in any way, I'd even argue it's bad art if it doesn't evoke such a resonance. Unfortunately, as it stands, this work of art is conceptually and narratively unfinished. NB: not accusing Larian, not slandering Larian, not [insert negative intent here] Larian, in case this is not already directly and indirectly implied by dozens of messages...
Last edited by Arkaelus; 07/09/23 04:43 PM.
Justice for Karlach
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Sep 2023
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With the content in the game now, it is impossible to fix the engine, full stop. Of course her reaction reflects that. Everyone knows (including Larian, as it is stated in the patch 2 notes) that people want more options. I really have a hard time seeing why people keep coming back to bash the writing, call it a tragedy trope or tragedy-baiting or bring their personal lives into the thread. Because it's art. People have every right to resonate with a piece of art in any way, I'd even argue it's bad art if it doesn't evoke such a resonance. Unfortunately, as it stands, this work of art is conceptually and narratively unfinished. NB: not accusing Larian, not slandering Larian, not [insert negative intent here] Larian, in case this is not already directly and indirectly implied by dozens of messages... I think it's just much easier to ignore the guy haha
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Banned
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Banned
Joined: Sep 2023
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In game - yes because there is no quest for some reason in act 3
Lorewise - bro you ever played this game.
Those are the options that make perfect sense lorewise:
Ask Dammon for help, as he promised
Steal tech from Steel Watchers
Ask Gondians for help
Make a pact with Mizora
Make a pact with Raphael
Ask Gale or any sorcerer to conjure some spell
Buy her out from Zariel with soul coins
Here, please explain why any of those options shouldn't work and if your answer is going to be "because this isn't in game" just go troll someone else
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Aug 2023
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Yeah, you're right. Wouldn't even know how to put this in a different way, anyway, already feel like I've repeated myself like a broken record:))
Thank you for the reality check, sincerely!
Justice for Karlach
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Sep 2023
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What I wanna know is when I fired back at that Raz415 person, the mods responded IMMEDIATELY, but the moment I stopped engaging with them the mods then ghosted with barely a word and Raz415 is still continuing to harass people in this topic. What the hell, mods?
Last edited by Nary a Care; 07/09/23 06:02 PM.
Justice For Karlach!
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Aug 2023
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With the content in the game now, it is impossible to fix the engine, full stop. Of course her reaction reflects that. Everyone knows (including Larian, as it is stated in the patch 2 notes) that people want more options. I really have a hard time seeing why people keep coming back to bash the writing, call it a tragedy trope or tragedy-baiting or bring their personal lives into the thread. This man really said "The plot holes are a feature" LOL
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Sep 2023
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In my most recent playthrough on Act 3 I started running into some of the added lines that apparently attempt to "add context" to Karlach's inevitable bad end.
I absolutely hated it.
The added lines just feel condescending to me. As if we're being told to shut up and accept that this is happening.
And I just hate the idea of this being a "sometimes now matter what you do you can't stop a bad end" kind of story. If that's the case, then let me ask this:
Why the Hell are we even playing this game? Isn't this supposed to be a fantasy RPG? This is the definition of a setting where you can stop the bad end and have a happy ending if you try hard enough. Why even bother if you're not even going to deliver on the actual fantasy when it's most important?
I don't care how fancy you think this story is, I'm sick and tired of these tragedy tropes. A lot of people are. I'm not interested in it, I don't want it, I have no interest in playing it, much less being forced to accept it.
For Larian themselves, if they are even reading this, I feel like I do need to clarify given the harsh stance I'm putting here. I'm not angry with Larian, I'm not trying to rage at them or anything. I have HUGE love and respect for you guys and am still amazed and happy with all the work you've put into this game. But if this is the only ending I'm allowed to have with Karlach then the game just isn't worth playing to end at all. For all the amazing things you put into the game, they all lose meaning very quickly if despite everything we are still left with such a horrible ending.
It is because I love this game so much that I'm giving, and will continue to give you guys this strong but respectful feedback; Give us a happy ending with Karlach. Also I would like to agree with everything that was said here. With one exception. My enjoyment for the game still hasn't recovered. I try to play it and at best I just feel dead inside. And if the changes they made to Karlach's story is that it's full of even MORE doom and gloom, then I really don't feel like the game is worth playing.
Justice For Karlach!
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member
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Joined: Sep 2023
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Why is the ending where you go to hell with her not enough for you if I may ask? Temporary bittersweet ending that may lead into an expansion and nothing suggests you cant find a way to fix it later.
I mean until they fix the entirety of act 3, because all of the companions are getting fk'd by this.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Sep 2023
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I can't speak for everyone, but personally I just dislike the lack of resolution.
Every other Origin character, even if the ending isn't particularly happy, still gets a resolution to their story. Asterion is free of Cazador, Gale has made peace with Mystra (or died trying), Lae'zel has turned her back on Vlaakith, Shadowheart saved (or lost) her parents, Wyll saved (or lost) his father. While many of these may not be a happily ever after, some of them are, but importantly, they're free of of the shackles they started the game with, or at least made their peace with them.
Karlach however gets no such closure. Either she resolves to return to Avernus, the one place she stated numerous times she'd rather die than return to, or dies a miserable death. Narratively it's unsatisfying given that her core character arc (if there even is one) is unresolved. If this is a choice based game, where my impact on the story is necessary for it to progress, why are the options available to Karlach the same as she started the game with? Either she dies, returns to Avernus, or becomes an illithid.
Last edited by Nessius; 07/09/23 07:21 PM.
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Aug 2023
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Dont know about others, but im bad with current ending because:
1 - There no quest for here at all. Everyone has a quest, even Halsin have a quest, but Karlach not!
2 - There plenty of possibilities to fix her engine: Gondians, Dammon, Gods, Devils deals, Elmister, True Resurrect (in game canon one, just give me opportunity kill Gale and safe this scroll canonically).
3 - No matter what you do your action have ZERO affect on her story. Its companion without a choice in a game that`s all about choice in a genre that all about choice, it`s just wrong. Like when shooter give you a boss that you must kill without guns - if game not working on it hardly and build all around it it`ll be wrong and will don`t work well.
4 - All companions can have a happy end, some even a perfect Disney happy end (like Gale), but Karlach don`t... Her problem even doesn`t so horrible as Gale problem!
Justice for Karlach!
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member
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Joined: Sep 2023
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To your 3rd point. Yes I see why this feels bad. But this, honestly, I feel like I had little impact on the story with choices overall.. Despite all the bragging in marketing.
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member
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Joined: Aug 2023
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Basically if you left Karlach by the river where you found her, she will have "almost" the same possibilities as at the end of the game. Return to avernus or die by exploding her engine.
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