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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Jul 2023
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To add my 2 cents, it's quite bizarre, when you choose a companion at Tielfings party and yet I still had both Gale and Wyll hit on me. It gets worse, as you pretty much agree to make your chosen relationship work.
The simplest fix? MAKE THE PLAYER BE THE INITIATOR + Make it obvious, when a comment is considered a flirt. If I show no interest in my companions, then either they shouldn’t do anything at all or be MORE SUBTLE:
Something like:
"Hey, if you don’t mind me asking, what are your feelings about love?"
Or
"Would you like to spend some time alone together?"
Seriously, I try to get high approval with everyone to help them with their problems, not to sleep with them. If I wanted to see sex, I would have browser the internet. Your complaint is irrelevant because the final choice is yours
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Jul 2014
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Kinda lost track of this thread in the last weeks.
How many more pages we got of "It doesn't happen to me" or "You can just say no" that keep missing the point by a landslide?
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Oct 2020
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But definitely not that having a dialogue option available to us means that the thought has crossed our character's mind, if that's what he's saying. By that token, every time there's a chance to intimidate, kill or insult an NPC on the list, that would mean my PC had considered it and that's just not how I see those options. Sure, they're there because potentially some characters might want to respond that way, but that doesn't mean that the specific character I'm roleplaying has any temptation in that direction. If all he means is that seeing a dialogue option on the list makes us as players consider the possibility when we might not actually want to, I'd agree, but that seems to me a necessary limitation of the multiple choice approach. Without giving a variety of options some of which might fit our characters on certain playthroughs and some which won't, I really don't see how players could have the flexibility to shape their characters and stories in a way that an RPG should offer. Agree! It is very strange for the video to say all dialogue options are something that crosses our character’s mind. Some of the fun in rpgs is to have a variety of different dialogue options and be able to pick the one that works for you! Not that your character is thinking all of them! I also disagree with the video that it works better with a fixed character. I love making my own character!
Last edited by Icelyn; 27/08/23 12:50 PM.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Dec 2020
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You know what reason Halsin gave me to stay with my group instead of going back to teh grove, where he belongs? He stays, because of me, he says this so suggestively, that I'm not talking to him anymore, apart from strictly story stuff.
I think by now, Astarion is the only companion, that did not hit on me (apart from Shadowheart, where I iniciated the flirt, because I wanted to actually romance her). I don't like Astarion, but he does grow on me for that simple fact.
Last edited by fylimar; 29/08/23 05:54 AM.
"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."
Doctor Who
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Jun 2019
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I'd like to suggest a button that shows up during any companion dialogue where they try to initiate or show interest. Similar to the two swords "interrupt with attack" button, but with a crossed out heart instead. When they start getting creepy or annoying it would be great to press that button to give a generic "Not interested, sorry" which cuts off the conversation in a generic way.
Boundaries, please.
After reading through some of this, I feel lucky that my first playthrough was Dark Urge and I accidentally killed Gale, and also didn't get Wyll, Halcin and Karlach.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2020
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So, Astarion just came on to me... when I have never had any interactions I would define as romantic toward him.
And these were the dialogue options... I shit you not, these are absolutely terrible. These arent exaggerated, or changed,
Astarion: im growing to like the whole package, honestly. And you clearly like me too, so...
1. What Gave it Away?
2. ... So?
3. I'd rather kiss a leech - they're just as attractive, but take less blood.
----
This is absolutely some of the worst, there is literally no option for "im flattered, but I just dont see you that way" or even "what gave you this impression?"
There is some better reactions beyond 2, but "... So?"" clearly seems to imply some sort of attraction.
Who the heck wrote this?
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Feb 2020
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Yeah, romances do feel like a mixed bag, depending on how you play, how often you long rest, who you have in your party, an so on. Overall, they do feel a little rushed in Act 1. And then in Act 2and 3 there seems to be barely any romantic content. I think Larian wanted to show romances so badly in Early Access, that they basically programmed in speedrun romances, that should develop much more slowly in a full game. Guess that's one downside of Early Access. Some things that struck me as particularly odd: The first time I was at camp talking to Shadowheart and asking what she thought of me, she was all like "Meh ...". And, no joke, the second time I tried this dialogue option, she basically said that my PC was the greatest of all people she has ever met. So, yeah ... I wasn't complaining, because I wanted to romance her, so, good for me that she like me. The other weird thing was with Karlach. I literally just recruited her and basically never had her in my party, except for that time I did her quest, and after saving the grove, she was totally in love with me, and was super excited to spend the night with me. I was like, wow, you are great, but we literally just met !!! On the other hand: Gale's advances at the party were a lot more believeable, because I had him in my party constantly and he was opening up to me about his explosion issues. Plus I was a Sorcerer, so we could talk magic. Halsin, Wyll and Astarion kept their distance, although I don't know why. I think, if I pushd it with the right dialogue options, I could have still started something with them, but I didn't want to, so I didn't try. The biggest surprise, and the reason why I still think the romances are well done, was Lae'Zel, and how I came to romance her, even though I never thought I would: I didn't have her in mind as a romantic option AT ALL, but I always had her in my party as a fighter and she grew on me, because she was a reliable asset and because of what we've been through until then. However, her views and actions seemed add odds with everything My PC stood for, and I distinctly remember seeing "Lae'Zel disapproves" A LOT. So I thought Lae'Zel hated me. I did not like her too much either, and I was planning on romancing Shadowheart. Shadowhear and my PC agreed much more often.
But then at the party, Lae'Zel suddenly starts to romance my PC (well, "romance" is probably the wrong word). The thing is, what she said and the way she said it, is just so much in line with her character that it was totally believable. And it kind of felt right, too ... even though it definitely felt very wrong, also (maybe that's the allure). Turns out she didn't hate me that much after all. Her romance scene was well done, too, I thought.
Afterwards, she says it's just sex and nothing more, so I thought it was a one time thing at a party and my PC could go back to a more professional relationship with her. Shadowheart, was still interested in me, too. We had that wine scene (even though we at camp in the underdark, but oh well), so I wanted to persue her romance further, which logically made much more sense than a romance with Lae'Zel.
But at some point Lae'Zel came back for seconds and ... even though, I initially didn't want to, My PC agreed to sleep together, again. This woman has some kind of spell over my PC, man.
Then the creche happened and after that the Act 2 romance scene with the fight, and that was it. I was locked in with Lae'Zel. She had completely won me over. So what I'm saying is: because of how my playthrough went, I basically ended up with a very believable romantic story for my PC. It took me completely by surprise and managed to get me emotionally invested in someone, who I didn't think too highly of in the beginning. So I guess, even though in Act 1, things can feel rushed, at least from my experience, there is great romantic content in the game that is also well executed.
Last edited by SiriusVI; 28/08/23 09:58 PM.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Sep 2022
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Overall, they (romances) do feel a little rushed in Act 1.. Yea understatement of the year.
It just reminded me of the bowl of goat's milk that old Winthrop used to put outside his door every evening for the dust demons. He said the dust demons could never resist goat's milk, and that they would always drink themselves into a stupor and then be too tired to enter his room..
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Dec 2020
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So, Astarion just came on to me... when I have never had any interactions I would define as romantic toward him.
And these were the dialogue options... I shit you not, these are absolutely terrible. These arent exaggerated, or changed,
Astarion: im growing to like the whole package, honestly. And you clearly like me too, so...
1. What Gave it Away?
2. ... So?
3. I'd rather kiss a leech - they're just as attractive, but take less blood.
----
This is absolutely some of the worst, there is literally no option for "im flattered, but I just dont see you that way" or even "what gave you this impression?"
There is some better reactions beyond 2, but "... So?"" clearly seems to imply some sort of attraction.
Who the heck wrote this? At least, Astarion Isa good sport. In EA he gave you approval for answer 3. I had to use it there once had to laugh.
"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."
Doctor Who
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jul 2009
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Overall, they (romances) do feel a little rushed in Act 1.. Yea understatement of the year. Probably because Larian wanted you to "get the good stuff" in EA for marketing reasons.
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Volunteer Moderator
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Volunteer Moderator
Joined: Feb 2022
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So, Astarion just came on to me... when I have never had any interactions I would define as romantic toward him.
And these were the dialogue options... I shit you not, these are absolutely terrible. These arent exaggerated, or changed,
Astarion: im growing to like the whole package, honestly. And you clearly like me too, so...
1. What Gave it Away?
2. ... So?
3. I'd rather kiss a leech - they're just as attractive, but take less blood.
----
This is absolutely some of the worst, there is literally no option for "im flattered, but I just dont see you that way" or even "what gave you this impression?" At least, Astarion Isa good sport. In EA he gave you approval for answer 3. I had to use it there once had to laugh.  I hope that’s still the case, that’s great. I don’t think I’ve ever seen those options myself. More generally, I think there is an issue with the game missing more neutral options, and this isn’t confined to romance dialogues. I’d agree having such options is important. It’s never going to be possible in a multiple choice dialogue tree to cover absolutely every possible thing we might want to say or do, and it would get too unwieldy to even try, so having noncommittal options is key to being able to consistently roleplay our character. I don’t mind not being able to say exactly what I want all the time, as long as I can enough to make their character clear, but I hate being forced to say or do something they definitely wouldn’t.
"You may call it 'nonsense' if you like, but I've heard nonsense, compared with which that would be as sensible as a dictionary!"
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Feb 2020
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Overall, they (romances) do feel a little rushed in Act 1.. Yea understatement of the year. Yeah, well, it depends on how you play really. The romances will feel more rushed in the following cases: - if you get to the Grove Party really fast. - if you don't long-rest and talk to people enough. - if you recruit certain characters very late or don't have them in your party often. If you avoid these things, you will have a much better experience. In may playthrough it all made kind of sense. For example, it makes total sense for Lae'Zel to just ask for sex. In my playthrough, it also made sense that Gale came on to me and Shadowheart asking for a private moment and a bottle of wine. It also made sense that Halsin, Astarion and Wyll were less interested. So I guess I was just lucky that my playstyle lead to a more natural feeling progression than for othe rplayers. Still, I'd like some tweaking: 1. Make it so that approval is not the only measure of when romances are possible. I think there should also be a timer involved if there isn't already. "Time spent in camp / active party" should also determine of a romance is possible or not. 2. Don't have a sex scene for every character at the Grove Party. It makes sense for characters like Lae'Zel and probably Astarion and Gale, but not so much for Karlach, Wyll, Halsin and Shadowheart. 3. Make it possible to have a ONS with characters other than your party members. If you play a bard and helped Alfira, why can't you hook up with her? Even in my non-bard playthrough, it would have been more believable for my PC to hook up with Alfira than with Kalrlach. 4. Make it so that if people rush through the game and have the Grove Party early, nobody (except maybe Lae'Zel) is interested. In that case, make the romances start later on inthe story. 5. In fact, make it so that people are not locked out of romances if they didn't start them back in Act 1. 6. Make it possible to start new romances if you break up with someone. ... ... ...
Last edited by SiriusVI; 29/08/23 09:37 AM.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Dec 2020
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So, Astarion just came on to me... when I have never had any interactions I would define as romantic toward him.
And these were the dialogue options... I shit you not, these are absolutely terrible. These arent exaggerated, or changed,
Astarion: im growing to like the whole package, honestly. And you clearly like me too, so...
1. What Gave it Away?
2. ... So?
3. I'd rather kiss a leech - they're just as attractive, but take less blood.
----
This is absolutely some of the worst, there is literally no option for "im flattered, but I just dont see you that way" or even "what gave you this impression?" At least, Astarion Isa good sport. In EA he gave you approval for answer 3. I had to use it there once had to laugh. I hope that’s still the case, that’s great. I don’t think I’ve ever seen those options myself. More generally, I think there is an issue with the game missing more neutral options, and this isn’t confined to romance dialogues. I’d agree having such options is important. It’s never going to be possible in a multiple choice dialogue tree to cover absolutely every possible thing we might want to say or do, and it would get too unwieldy to even try, so having noncommittal options is key to being able to consistently roleplay our character. I don’t mind not being able to say exactly what I want all the time, as long as I can enough to make their character clear, but I hate being forced to say or do something they definitely wouldn’t. Astarion often gives you approval for witty replies, even if they are meant to insult him. Had that a few times in my full game playthrough.
"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."
Doctor Who
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Aug 2023
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in natural human interaction you can set the goal to work towards a fantastic friendship or a blossoming relationship - two very different tracks of progress. *Sometimes* it can get messy or blur the lines.
In BG3 I feel like every kind answer is working towards a relationship as the end goal, further accented by a linear single approval bar.
I don't think I care enough about this aspect to have a strong opinion, but is what I've noticed in my playthroughs.
Last edited by The Frosthaven; 30/08/23 04:58 AM.
Justice For Karlach.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Aug 2023
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In my opinion all these problems arise because you get your companions approval rating too high too fast. During my first two hours in BG3 Lae'zel went from being unfriendly, rude and arrogant to "your scent drives me crazy, I must taste you". Why? Because I interrogated Zorru with her and let her doing it her way. This pushed my approval rating over 20 and started her romance. It felt wierd, out of nowhere and honestly just cringe. There are Lae'zel sex speedruns on youtube in under 4 minutes!
With Karlach I had the same problem. I decided to help her kill the paladins and helped her with her engine. Some - in my opinion - just friendly communication about her backstory let to "I wanna ride you until you see stars". Maybe two hours after I met her.
So far I played maybe 50% of Act 1 (cleared the swamp and the goblin camp) and my approval rating with Gale is already somewhere at 80+. This is insane. All I did were a few things he liked (stepped between the crossbow and the goblin and saved the child in the druid grove) and helped him with his condition. That's apparently enough to nearly max his approval rating mid Act I. Obviously he started flirting with me and I had to shut down his advances two times so far ("Weave"-Scene and at the party in my camp).
Astarion is the same. I let him bite me because I felt like he's in serious trouble because he's too weak to hunt an animal for blood. That's what he said. It was not clear to me that the game views this as a romatic gesture. It feels like everytime I express interest in Astarions backstory and how he became a vampire he misunderstands my curiosity as a romantic/sexual approach. It is wierd and cringe. It sadly feels like a bunch of horny teenagers wrote the companion interactions and the only goal they had in mind was to have sex as fast as possible.
Last edited by Trumpusconi; 30/08/23 06:53 PM.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2013
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In my opinion all these problems arise because you get your companions approval rating too high too fast. During my first two hours in BG3 Lae'zel went from being unfriendly, rude and arrogant to "your scent drives me crazy, I must taste you". Why? Because I interrogated Zorru with her and let her doing it her way. This pushed my approval rating over 20 and started her romance. It felt wierd, out of nowhere and honestly just cringe. There are Lae'zel sex speedruns on youtube in under 4 minutes!
With Karlach I had the same problem. I decided to help her kill the paladins and helped her with her engine. Some - in my opinion - just friendly communication about her backstory let to "I wanna ride you until you see stars". Maybe two hours after I met her.
So far I played maybe 50% of Act 1 (cleared the swamp and the goblin camp) and my approval rating with Gale is already somewhere at 80+. This is insane. All I did were a few things he liked (stepped between the crossbow and the goblin and saved the child in the druid grove) and helped him with his condition. That's apparently enough to nearly max his approval rating mid Act I. Obviously he started flirting with me and I had to shut down his advances two times so far ("Weave"-Scene and at the party in my camp).
Astarion is the same. I let him bite me because I felt like he's in serious trouble because he's too weak to hunt an animal for blood. That's what he said. It was not clear to me that the game views this as a romatic gesture. It feels like everytime I express interest in Astarions backstory and how he became a vampire he misunderstands my curiosity as a romantic/sexual approach. It is wierd and cringe. It sadly feels like a bunch of horny teenagers wrote the companion interactions and the only goal they had in mind was to have sex as fast as possible. It's more that approval = romance. It's fine that they have to approve you to like you, it's weird that's the only metric. There's no such thing as flirtation, just "I know you exist and you have exhibited traits I approve of ergo you are attracted to me"
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Volunteer Moderator
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Volunteer Moderator
Joined: Feb 2022
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It's more that approval = romance. It's fine that they have to approve you to like you, it's weird that's the only metric. There's no such thing as flirtation, just "I know you exist and you have exhibited traits I approve of ergo you are attracted to me" As has been mentioned in this topic, while from all the feedback here it's clear that there are issues with the romance triggers, it's not always the case that if a companion has high approval they'll hit on you. For example, Gale, Shadowheart and Karlach haven't propositioned my player character despite having high approval early on and exploring most conversation options with them. It clearly matters what you say to them as well as approval, though which options lead to romance any which don't in many cases seems to be a mystery. I'm not sure if Gale is better since the advertised patch 1 fix to make which options lead to romance with him clearer, as I'm just carrying on with my existing playthrough. In general I've had more issues with dialogue triggers than before the patch, though nothing related to romance yet. I do agree, though, that companion approval can rise way too fast. Totally independently from any romance content, Gale had already decided he trusted me enough to share his troubles within a day of meeting me which just didn't feel natural or earned.
"You may call it 'nonsense' if you like, but I've heard nonsense, compared with which that would be as sensible as a dictionary!"
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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
Joined: Oct 2021
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This game seems to have a lot of issues with event triggers in general. A problem that comes with the sheer scope of the game, or something which calls for further investigation as to fundamental issues?
Remember the human (This is a forum for a video game):
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addict
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addict
Joined: Dec 2022
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Yes something needs to be done with the triggers, because it can make the pace feels off.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2020
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As I mentioned, most of the romances here just feel like today's shitty hookup culture to me. Astarion particularly, since he actually tells you he used you in the beginning so you wouldn't abandon him. Gale is a bit more believable to me, since at least for me, he hasn't gotten in my bed yet but the romance *is* progressing. And yes, I'm past the party. I can see where folks feel it feels rushed, especially if you bumrush act 1. They did slow it down over EA but still. And then there's halsin, who feels tacked on.
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