Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Wyll: His character and lack of content

There's a part where Gortash will call you up to the tower to see him be ordained by the Duke, Wyll's father. Even Mizora is standing outside(and there's a lot I could say about her writing too, but this ain't about her right now) telling you "tee-hee, you should bring Wyll up with you~". So you bring Wyll with you and you're expecting to get unique dialogue/situation similar to Karlach for doing so. If you don't know, if you bring Karlach up, you have to do this whole dice roll to talk her down out of understandably not just punching Gortash in his face or else she gets taken away to a holding cell and you have to go bail her out. Bringing Karlach up with you adds to the scene...Not so much for Wyll for some reason, and it doesn't make any sense because the game literally suggest you bring him along, why? Why? Nothing about the scene changes or gets enhanced bringing him there. He'll go "muh father" and that's it. No strong emotional reaction, nothing.

Wyll can potentially watch Gortash insert a tadpole into his father's brain in Act 2, and the two character don't even exchange a line of dialogue when they finally meet? Gortash who's slinging bullshit speeches about wanting "lead the city to glory" and justice. Watch the man throw himself a mock celebration topped with his brainwash father knighting the fellow. And chivalrous Wyll who gave up his soul to protect said city without an ounce of recognition has not a word to say about any of this.

I can buy Wyll not wanting to risk his father's safety, he says as much. What I can't buy is that he has no strong opinions, not even a strong look on anything that's happening right now. These two could've been interesting foils to one another the more I think about how similar they are. Both essentially groomed by devils to do their bidding, who want to be seen/viewed as "heroic" by the people. Gortash doesn't care who he steps over to gain power and glory, meanwhile Wyll genuinely cares about helping people even if it means sacrificing a part of himself in the progress. But again, Larian writes Wyll like he's just some guy, when everything about his backstory and character would suggest otherwise and it's frustrating to watch.

It doesn't matter what you say to Gortash(as long as you aren't throwing yourself into a damn near unwinnable fight.), there's no variation to his dialogue no matter what choice you make regarding the pact. Choose to side with Gortash, nothing. Choose not to side with Gortash, nothing. You know who did comment on the pact when I brought them along? Astarion, for some reason. And if there was ever a character that fits the "just some guy" of the group moniker more, it would be him. Yet here he is commenting on it, and not the character who actually has something to lose based on this decision you make.

Worst of all is when I got rid of every party member except my MC and Wyll, JUST to see if maybe, just maybe, the game was doing that thing where only certain characters dialogue would trigger and the game doesn't even bother showing him in the background while talking with Gortash. It's like he doesn't even exist. Again, why did they ask for me to bring him here and if they weren't going to have him do shit?

I was honestly impressed. I've been playing this game since launch, and though to myself, "Wow, this game really scratched an itch I haven't felt since finishing DAO. You can really see the Bioware-like influence in this game. They even manage to mimic the questionable writing decisions of their black characters in the game. They didn't have to do that, but really did their homework and nailed that Bioware experience like they wanted."

But we're not quite done with this scene yet because now Wyll want to talk to his father. Alright, maybe now we'll get that unique dialogue we were sort of promised and nope. Whether you bring Wyll or not, whether Wyll is the one who's talking to his father or not. Nothing about is different or special about the scene with him there aside from him commenting the obvious to us the player that the tadpole hasn't fully take over yet. I'm not even shocked at this point, just disappointed.

I think a big issue with a lot of Wyll's scenes is that we, the MC, end up doing most of the talking for him. One thing I notice with other characters when they're dealing with their personal quest is that most of or a lot of the talking is done by them. When Nightsong is . Like I said, it's like the writers are out on a mission to have him saying as little as possible whenever he's on screen. I would not have minded one bit if Wyll took the reigns in that conversation, and that hearing his son's concern for him was the cause of the tadpole losing control.

There's a lack of emotional payoff with a lot of Wyll's story. I don't know if it's over correcting from criticism from people who didn't like him back in EA. It's almost like they're afraid to have the guy be justifiable resentful or some shit. Take Wyll and his father for example. His father basically disowned him and threw him to the wolves after figuring out he made a deal with a devil. Wyll understands why his father did what he did("The Duke suffers no fools or traitors" something like that), but to think so little of his only son that he'd actually believed he'd so casually sell his soul just for power? To banish him from the city forever? He can't be written to be just a little resentful? Not even an ounce bit angry at pops? He was pretty much thrown to the wolves at 17. It's even worse when you realize that his dad seems to be the only relationship in this city he actually seems to have.

So like you finally save Wyll's father after having so much bullshit thrown at you, and again this father son drama is not resolved by Wyll himself, but the MC using their tadpole ex machina to clear up all these misunderstandings about why Wyll took Mizora's deal and what not yadayada. Again Wyll is regulated to a background character in his own story. The duke goes, "Son, I'm so sorry can you ever forgive me?" And of course Wyll is going to say yes because we're already in the last half of the Act and there's not much more time to be doing character exploration, and this plotline has gone on long enough.

There's also aside from that one big moment in part 1 you can talk him out of with killing Karlach or not, there's not a lot of variation to a lot of Wyll's dialogue like there are other characters in the game. You can take characters down good paths. Wyll is a good person and he remains a mostly good person. This is fine, not everyone needs to have a "dark" path in the game, Karlach doesn't for the most part. But maybe they should've given him more reactions and dialogue to certain shit you do in the game to balance it out. And I don't know if his character just drastically changes much if you do kill Karlach, but I shouldn't have to kill off an entire character just to see maybe a few lines of extra dialogue.

And another thing. Where is this man's friends at? He doesn't have anyone waiting for him when he comes back to town. No friends. No past lovers. No pets. Not even a favorite fucking baker he liked to visit from time to time, what gives? Karlach has friends that she meets in Act 3. Shadowhear the amnesiac has friends. Astarion has his "brothers and sister". Hell, we even meet Gale's fucking CAT in Act 3. Your telling me Wyll just has no one waiting for him when he returns to the city he was forcably removed for 7 years? Could Larian not spare him just a small NPC to interact with on a friendly basis? Do you see what I mean about how dirty this character was done?

This dude literally gave up his soul for this city, and for what? His shitty ass dad who abandoned him soon afterwards?
And I know someone will say, "oh, but what abou the Counsoller lady?" And she's more of a friend of his dad, that a friend of Wyll's. Maybe if they'd given her a more pseudo paternal role in Wyll's story like they did with Elminster and Gale.

I don't know if this can entirely be blamed on the re-writes or not, but Wyll just has so little compared to everyone else it's sad, but then it becomes frustrating when you realize that every other characte but him has a multiple if not one sex scenes in this game. Hell, Astarion has like four all on his own. Off the top of my heads these are Wyll's, I'm guessing, "intimate" moments in Act 1.

You can ask to see him dance at some point. You can comfort him about his new appearance, I think there's an option to call him a handsome during that scene. And you can maybe get a kiss from him a the tiefling party, that is if you haven't cockblocked yourself by flirting with other characters and locking yourself out of that option. And that's all until Act 2.
Act 2 intimate scene is that you'll finally get that dance and a kiss(if you didn't before). Afterwards you can talk about what you mean to him and he'll give you
Now let's look at some of the companions romance scenes...
Well for Shadowheart you can earn her trust to the point where she'll share her deepest, darkest secret that's she's told no one else before. You can learn about her favorite flower. You can learn that she can't swim. She'll invite you out to drinks, and you'll get to know even more about her fears and doubts. You tease her a bit, and even make out. This is all just in Act 1 alone.
Astarion(it almost feels unfair using him, as you can sort of tell he's Larians' favorite with just how much content in general he has to mostly everyone else, but still here we go.) You have the mirror scene. The neck biting scene. The forest scene. The morning after scene. The translate his back scars for him scene. The "how do the others taste" scene. I'm probably forgetting some, but these are all in Act 1.
Alright, Alright, but how about his Act 2 scene. Well he gets a sweet moment where the two of you finally get to dance and kiss. It's such a lighthearted, nice moment especially considering how gloomy Act 2 is mostly. Afterwards he'll share what you meant to him, which honestly seems like a bit much, too soon, considering how you don't get a lot of content to see him at his most vunerable with you, just letting his guard down with you. He'll make promises about how he want to take things slow and...that's it. That's all the romantic content they have lined up for him until Act 3. He mentions how he want to take things slow. Properly court you and all, which has me excited for what's to come. Well...

Act 3 comes along and we get...A PROPOSAL. Now wait a damn minute here Larian. I was promised a slow burn. A dance, a kiss, i love you, let's get married. That's not a slow burn, that's a flash fire, what gives??? There's no funny inbetween moments, like Gale pulling the character aside and talking about how he enjoys watching the MC fight a little too much. Or picking flowers for Shadowheart. like where is this courting that we were promised? And NO, his dad doesn't acknowledge the proposal because of course he wouldn't, why would that possible interaction ever be written in.

He also has no sex scenes, and listen it's not like I really care about whether or not we get a sex scene with him. They don't matter to me at all. But everyone other companion at this point has had multiple sex scenes depending on where you take the character, and they couldn't spare a few resources to give him just one?

So if your playing a Dark Urge, the meeting with Gortash goes entirely differently. Gort will explain how him and Durge were actually partners and shit. After the reveal, pretty much all the origin characters who are traveling with you(I haven't checked Mint. And Astarion didn't really say shit to me after the reveal so I don't know if he's bugged or what, idrc to check) turn on you. "You were working for the Absolute this whole time! I can't believe it! Don't talk to me, I need some space." And it's very sad because even your own lover will turn on you. And you get to Wyll and he goes something along the lines of, "I knew someone who was just like you. He chose to follow the light, I know you can do it to." And it was so comforting, that at least one of my (origin)companions still believed in me and was on my side afterwards. He's just so sweet and optomistic and I just wish the writing had fully done him the justice he deserved.

And it would've made that fight in the House of Hope even better than it already is.

I'll be the devil's advocate (no pun intended) and say that Wyll can get both a custom robe (if you kill Karlarch) and a custom rapier (if you save Mizora and ask for a reward) in the course of his storyline, though I'd much rather he had his swashbuckling armor with the chest exposed like in the concept art. For reasons!