Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion [END SPOILS WARNING] Addressing Karlach (PLEASE PUT SPOILERS IN TAGS)

Or even "we are aware CERTAIN characters' questlines in act 3 feel flat we will look into it" would be enough

Exactly, at this point im not sure they just wanted to flesh out important ending before ps5, this was all they could do and just used terrible wording, or they want to troll us, or rather straight up take a piss. Like how does that even sound? "Former slave is forced into hated place, and forced to fight to the death because escape is no longer an option, and this is an ending we think the sweetest companion deserves"

This is just drama waiting to happen

The investment in these characters stories is proof of how good Larian’s writing can be. Most of us are not questioning that, on the contrary lol

But there is no question that Karlach’s storyline is much, much shorter and “plain” than other origins (just check the quest log lol after finishing the game). Whatever the reason for it, the thing that bothered me the most wasn’t even the possible endings for her - it was the path LEADING there.

I’m even playing as Karlach (aka avatar Karlach) now hoping that I’d get more bits about her personal story, and that some moments in the game would change/adapt due to her specific predicament.

In Act 1 this kind of happens. She gets some specific dialogue and moments, like after facing the paladins of Tyr. Playing as her, it made me excited to expect some more content that I might’ve not seen playing as a custom tav.

But, towards the end of Act 1, it seems Karlach-specific moments are essentially over. The story progression of her character, the fact that she is dying - that she could not be touched, then now she can - is mostly ignored by other origins (some don’t even comment on her dying - I’m looking at you, Astarion). There IS a bit extra content about her backstory in moonrise towers, but it feels gratuitous and disconnected.

Other origins have a crescendo in their stories, twists and turns, that leads to an end that, even when bitter sweet, fulfills you because the path leading there was rich and expertly crafted.

That’s where Karlach’s story fell short for me. She doesn’t have nearly as rich a path, or as carefully crafted interactions that fill you with satisfaction during the course of the game, building up to an ending that could’ve been sad, but fulfilling. In that sense, she does feel like an afterthought - and that’s not up to the standard of the rest of the game.

I think if the rest of the game was kind of sloppy or mediocre, we might’ve let many of these issues slide, or they’d blur with the rest. But the fact that we KNOW how good the writing is/can be (Astarion’s story arch is incredible, for example), made us - well, greedy. Greedy in a good way, I suppose, because we want every character in the game to have the same level of writing and development.

I’m not expecting tons of new content or anything, but I would like to see some rewritten dialogue options, some added reactions from origins and the like. Unrealistically, I’d love a full rewrite of Karlach’s questline and storyline to the same level of richness as Shadowheart’s. But it won’t happen.

Instead, if we could at least have avatar Karlach’s story plot holes covered or fixed - like, for example, Gale talking about dying to her as if she can’t understand what it feels to be at the brink of death when she herself is dying too lol (what an absolute self centered bastard he sounded), or Astarion confessing to Karlach to then completely ignore when she is told she will die (that’s cold even for him) - if moments like these, when it seems writers forgot about her, could be fixed, I’d already be content.

Playing as her is becoming a very strange experience after having such a rich experience as tav. I wish Larian would at least review and patch the path leading to Karlach’s ending as much - if not more - than the endings themselves.

It's very much that bad, which the new scenes are mostly there to emphasize, I think. It's not physically debilitating at the moment - for gameplay reasons, I'm sure - and you can even throw soul coins on the fire with perfect safety. But she's in pain and her time is short.

Certainly, its undeniable, the work put in. But, there's more to be done with time and patience.

Copying my last feedback, will probably be my last for a while since I put in 450 hours in BG3.

The near-unanimous consensus on Karlach is that her story feels incomplete in Act 3. She is the only companion (to my knowledge) whose ending does not change regardless of your previous choices in the story. The choices are 'death' or 'Avernus' and you make them in the last 30 seconds of the game. Very unsatisfying. It SEEMS like, from all the clues, that a new ending to fix her heart ought to be added.. And don't make it easy. Make the fix ending only available if Dammon, Barcus Wroot and all the Gondians survive deep into Act 3. Make it so you have to broker a deal with Gortash, potentially putting your kidnapped companion at risk. Make it difficult and rewarding but give the people what we want!

And I just wish we got one quick quest so we can at least enjoy the story we are invested so much. Just let us fix her engine with a simple fetch quest and then we can wait for all the stuff that may be to come in DE

The whole story is about fixing the engine, we are showed too many solutions and can't use any of them. One fetch quest and one scene at the end is enough, we don't need much. Just Karlach saying that now she free and can do whatever. Minimum effort, yet it ends the whole affair and we all go home.

Is it harder than defusing a nuke and bailing a guy out of a suicide mission ordered by a literal goddess? If not, your argument is irrelevant. Her engine isn't anything out of ordinary, literally nobody is bothered by it and a refugee in the middle of nowhere is able to modify it with close to nothing at his disposal. This isn't some ancient piece of technology that's been lost for millenia but Zariel somehow found it and decided to turn her into some kind of doomed goddess of death, she's literally just a soldier like many others with A LOT of ways out that we can't use because either someone had very poor grimderp moment and decided to act like edgy 13 year old on wattpadd or because of cut content. If it's the latter, then all we need is confirmation that we will get the ending we want and the whole affair ends

Plus, as Karlach is rather a (chaotic) good aligned character, having all the helpful people saved and kept alive in your game, i.e. playing on a good alignment, can be an intelligent way to challenge the player "if you want to play a good samaritan then prove it and you will be rewarded".

And as you only know at the really end of the game that all those people are the only ones that can help Karlach, it should be a real "difficult" mission to save her. You are not even aware about all these prerequesites during act 1 and 2. You only understand during Act 3 if your choices/actions in previous acts have a positif or a negative impact for having a good end on Karlach quest.
Karlach's quest is not the most exciting quest, and I'm not sure it can be a "better" entertainment than "gimme some infernal metal" during act 1&2 tbh. But adding some butterfly effect from other totally not-related quests can add a lot of depth to Karlach's personal quest, where success depends not on which boss you have to beat, but on who you have to save.


In that way, everyone can be satisfied, the players that want a coherent good end, those who swear by the adage "nOt EvErYoNe CaN hAvE a GoOd EnD", and Larian who don't have to touch anything before Act 3 except putting triggers on some quests to activate the final new Karlach's quest+cinematic, which would be the only thing to develop.

You know what I just realized now? Karlach's personal quest basically DOES NOT HAVE THE CONSEQUENCES OF THE PLAYER'S CHOICE! One of the main pillars on which any story RPG rests! More precisely, they are, but they are INCREDIBLY few and they all essentially go to the same depressing ending for this character. And there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING the player can do to get the ending they really want for this character they like.

On my first playthrough, I had her fixed 2 times in a row during Act 2.

On my second playthrough - after Patch 2 and Hotfix 5, I've recruited Karlach earlier and fixed her 1 time at the grove. But for the second time, Dammon says - "see you in Baldur Gate!". WTF?? I don't have the second piece of the infernal metal, but when I find it, then what, Dammon will refuse to proceed till Act 3??

I think he speaks about BG after first upgrade all the time, but you will find him in act2 in the smithy same as before the patch.

^Oh, that's a relief, thanks.

Give us literally anything, how can anyone even consider her story full if we do literally nothing in act except for doomer sad dialogs. How can anyone consider her story completed, and a good tragedy if we weren't even allowed to fail? Sure in DE we can have complex questline and all, for now I just want to enjoy the game and a story Im about to spend about 50 hours or so, and one simple fetch quest allows this. We really aren't asking for much

I liked Karlach too. But I wonder, do all of you posting these "better ending for Karlach", "better ending for Astarion threads" understand that, it is all of them? All the companions, the entire game in act 3 is still EA. They rushed an unfinished game out the door knowingly.

I got the scene where you go with Wyll and Karlach to Avernus and thought this was a fine bittersweet ending. Leaves things open to continue.

However, Shadowheart my romance? Not a single word to me after the final fight. And all the other companions has at most 2 sentences. The entire sequence is 3 min long at most and just fades to black. I reload and let Karlach die just to see what changes, ah the game tells me I killed Shadowheart (honestly Ridiculous for a final release) then 2 sec later I am talking to her for 40 sec, fade to black. THE GAME IS NOT FINISHED.

Now Larian if you see this, I can feel the effort you put in to act 1 and 2. But this game still has continuity issues, AFTER 3 YEARS IN EARLY ACCESS. And I dont care, if you make good on it with a definitive edition, because if you do this will be THE RPG of the next 20 years at least. And honestly, after three years in early access, I feel like you owe it to us, because this game is still lacking a lot of what was promised. And I will even pay all over again for it, because I believe that THAT game, will be worth 2 x price.

All the pieces are in the lower city. Dammon has a Diabolic Forge (does he even USE the thing?!), the Steel Watchers recognize her as a defective Watcher and have Enriched Infernal Iron, the Steel Watcher tells you exactly what is wrong with her engine which is apparently almost a prototype for what keeps them running, the Gondians improved upon the design and could easily figure out a way to fix her.

So in theory the quest would have you talk to Dammon, talk to a steel watcher while she's in your party, talk to Dammon again.
"Apparently those metal monstrosities running about think I'm one of them and it told me that my 'insert tech description here I can't remember it clearly atm' is what's wrong with my engine."
Dammon has a eureka moment, "Of course! But honestly.. that seems to be a bit outside even my skill level.. Tell ya what. Go see if you can save those Gondians from Gortash's whip. If you can pry apart the watchers, and get them out safely, try and get one of their engineers to come here. Between me and some gnome tech geniuses with the Diabolic Forge in the house, we'll fix that heart if it's the last thing we do."

Done and Dusted. Hell they could probably go the route of making her a whole new engine. Which unlocks her blue flames full time. (Don't judge me she looked hella cool.)

Also Dammon losing his ability to forge items out of Infernal Iron in Act 3 is really suspicious.

Think it's safe to say that's a largely accepted fact at this point, yeah... And it can never hurt to have as much feedback out there, both about the entirety of the last Act, as well as specific elements - increases visibility and awareness that we're paying attention to both the big picture and the details which compose it. Squeaky wheel gets the grease, and there are a lot of wheels in need of lubrication:))

What? I wasn't making any such argument. Did you mean to reply to someone else?