Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Build Discussion A Stat and Something: Filler Feats

The value of Ability Score Increases (ASIs) is well understood. Getting a +1 to just about everything your character cares about is a great, and very powerful thing. But in BG3, your primary stat will start at 17, most likely. So after you put one ASI towards it and it's at 19, with a cap of 20 from ASIs, what are you to do? You could split the ASI and improve another stat as well. For some particularly MAD (Multi Attribute Dependent) Classes like Monk, Paladin or Ranger, that might be worth it. You could start at 16 instead, and either dump two ASI into your primary stat, or call 18 good enough so you don't miss out on the incredibly powerful, balance warping feats like Sharpshooter, Great Weapon Master, or Lucky. Or, you can take advantage of a filler feat. Also known as a half feat, a 'stat and something', or whatever else you want to call it, this gives you a +1 in a stat while also giving you a benefit. While not as powerful as other feats by design, they can be a great way to round out your character. So what are the options?

Strength
Athlete - Gives you a +50% jump distance and getting up from Prone takes less movement. The first part of that matters a lot more than the second, as jumping is quite good in BG3, and 50% is a large increase, especially for a class which cares about a Strength increase.
Heavily Armored - Gives Heavy Armor proficiency. If your class or Race combo doesn't provide it, this not only gives you the proficiency (which you could also pick up via a dip in another class) it also gives you the Str increase you may need. It allows you to totally dump Dex, which is a nice side benefit.
Heavy Armor Master - Reduces incoming damage from non-magical weapons by 3. This is actually pretty huge, I'm not sure if it's calculated before or after resistance from Blade Ward or Rage though, I'll have to test, maybe someone can let me know? Either way this can massively impact a character's survivability.
Lightly Armored - Gives proficiency with Light Armor. Not worth it for characters who care about Strength in any build I can conceive of.
Moderately Armored - Gives proficiency with Medium Armor and Shields. Same as Heavily Armored, you need to care more about the Strength increase than the benefits you would get from a dip in another class. Less worth it from my perspective for Str based characters than Dex, in part because most folks who care about Str likely already have this from another source.
Resilient (Strength) - Gives proficiency in Strength saves. Monk, Fighter, Barbarian and Ranger already have proficiency and aren't eligible for this.
Tavern Brawler - It makes no sense that this feat is in this list. It's absurdly powerful already, possibly the most powerful feat in the game, but here it is. Doubles your Strength bonus for attack rolls and damage when throwing something, making an unarmed attack, or using an improvised weapon. Would be worth taking even without the bonus to Strength, but you get it anyway.
Weapon Master - Gain proficiency with 4 specific weapons of your choice. There's no way this is the best option for you, in BG3.

Dexterity
Athlete - As above, but it's worse, since Strength determines jump distance.
Lightly Armored - As above, still not worth it.
Moderately Armored - As above. At first glance rarely worth it since Medium Armor only gives +2 Dex, but you get all pieces of medium armor (gloves, boots etc) not just the chest piece, which is the only piece which caps at +2 (with a notable exception). Plus you get shields.
Resilient: Dexterity - Gives proficiency in Dex saves. Bards, Monks, Rangers and Rogues are already proficient and aren't eligible for this.
Weapon Master - As above, and generally still not worth it.

Constitution - While not the primary stat for any class I'll list the options here for completeness.
Durable - Regain full HP during a short rest. A very marginal benefit.
Resilient: Constitution - Gives proficiency in Constitution saves. Note that Con saves are used for maintaining concentration. Not as good as Warcaster for passing those checks mathematically though. Barbarians, Fighters, and Sorcerers are already proficient and aren't eligible.
Tavern Brawler - As Above. Massively powerful, but it doubles your Strength bonus, so why would you not be increasing that bonus, rather than Constitution?

Intelligence
Resilient: Intelligence - Gives proficiency in Int saves. Wizards (the only class who would care about this) are already proficient in Int saves and are not eligible.
That's it! That's the whole list for Int, Wizards really get hurt by Observant not being in the game.

Wisdom
Resilient: Wisdom - Gives proficiency in Wis saves. C;erics, Druids, Paladins, Warlocks, and Wizards are already proficient in Wis saves and thus are not eligible.
That's it! As above, those with a primary stat of Wis are hurt by Observant not being present.

Charisma
Actor - Grants Proficiency and Expertise in Deception and Performance. Miles better than Skilled for someone who uses those skills, cares about Cha, and might otherwise take it.
Performer - Gives a musical instrument proficiency. Tough to see someone choosing this over Actor.
Resilient: Charisma - Gives proficiency in Cha saves. Bards, Clerics, Sorcerers, Paladins and Warlocks are already proficient in Cha saves and are not eligible.

That's all of them! I honestly expected more options for the other stats when I started, you've got multiple fantastic options for Str, one, maybe two good options for Dex and One good option for Cha, with nothing really for the rest. Ironically thanks to some items available in the game the Strength increase from the Strength options may not actually matter to you in the late game. Still, it's good to know the options. Setting aside Tavern Brawler, has anyone taken any of these? Which one(s), and how did it fare for you? Are there any feats which in your opinion Should have a stat increase kicker to increase their viability for a stat other than Strength, and if so, which ones?

Heavy armor athlete and sorcerer/bard actor are the only *good* options. Tavern brawler is a strong feat, but only for a certain few builds.

Tavern Brawler is incredible on just about any Str based character, if they can fit it in. Tons of great Strength based feats of course, but one should not underestimate how much damage and flexibility is gained for a Barb by carrying a bag of axes and a ring of hurling in conjunction with Tavern Brawler. +5 (or more) to hit *and* damage is just insane. It doesn't need to define your build, though for many after seeing how strong it is, it might take over anyway. Let's assume "only" 20 Str and compare for a variety of to hit percentages, compared to what is known and widely acknowledged to be one of the strongest feats in the game, Great Weapon Master:

Tavern Brawler throwing a Handaxe (1d6+5, now 1d6+10), hit percentage increases by 25% thanks to the feat
Normal Hit Percentage 10% (goes to 35%)- .85 expected damage without the feat to 4.72 with the feat
20% - 1.7 to 7.42
40% - 3.4 to 8.77
60% - 5.1 to 11.47
80% - 6.8 to 12.82
90% - 7.65 to 12.82

Great Weapon Master going "all in" with a 2d6 weapon (2d6+5, now 2d6+15), hit percentage drops by 25% thanks to the feat
10% - 1.2 to 1.1
20% - 2.4 to 1.1
40% - 4.8 to 3.3
60% - 7.2 to 7.7
80% - 9.6 to 12.1
90% - 10.8 to 14.3

As we can see below 60% base hit percentage it's not worth using, that actually rises as the amount of additional damage sources increases. But Tavern Brawler is not only always a boon, it's such a huge boon that in most cases they're doing more damage with it. This is of course why it's so critical for a GWM user to have Advantage from somewhere, to ensure their initial hit chance is high enough to be worth it. If instead you were say throwing a pike of returning, with a ring of hurling on, it would be even better. Of course you can't for example Smite off a throw, but even still, it can be very nice to have that option in your pocket as it were.

I also personally like Moderately Armored on pure Rogue, it's better than just an ASI since no stat beyond Dex matters that much, and it means you don't have to dip. Given that I think more than a level off is too much (Reliable Expertise is just too good to miss), it's really a matter of a 1 level dip in Ranger or the feat, Ranger would give Heavy Armor Proficiency instead and some goodies, but +1 Dex modifier (and keeping it "pure" Rogue) has merits of its own. If I liked Fighters better I'd definitely try Heavy Armor Master, if you have Blade Ward up consistently (as you may thanks to healers having a certain item) then that could really make up for the lack of HP vs Barbarians and let them serve as more effective tanks.

I am not sure how GWM and tavern brawler should work together.

GWM mentions:
- When you crit or kill with a melee weapon you can attack as a bonus action.
- When attacking with a 2h weapon you can trade +10damage for -5 hit chance
- It does not mention anything about throwing

tavern brawler
- add str bonus to hit and damage for unarmed, improvised weapon and thrown

They don't work together, or at least not in any way I'm aware of. I was just comparing their relative power as GWM is (rightly) widely recognized as an extremely powerful feat, to demonstrate how absurdly powerful tavern brawler is.

Well, I dont think the name "filler feat" is too lucky. They arent chosen because we cant think of anything good to pick, but are forced to pick something.

I much prefer "half feat".



The list of feats in BG3 that we get is of course controlled by the original D&D5 PHB list, which is rather short, compared to previous editions of D&D.

Would be great if there would be more choices for half feats, especially for Constitution, Intelligence, and Wisdom, where the choices are few.



Brainstorm:

- Skill Excellence - Gain Expertise in a single Skill, and gain +1 on the associated Attribute, with the usual limit of 20. Can be taken multiple times, but only in skills one doesnt have Expertise in yet. Prerequisite: at least 13 in that Attribute.

- Understudy - Gain +1 Charisma, Wisdom, or Intelligence, and gain Proficiency in two skills associated with that attribute. Can be taken multiple times, but each time for a different attribute. Prerequisite: 13 in that attribute.

- Shield Useage - Gain Proficiency in Shields. Also gain +1 in any Ability Score, with the usual limit of 20. Prerequisite: Light Armor Proficiency.

- Dualist - Gain the ability to wield a larger than small, but not larger than versatile weapon in the main hand while duawielding. The offhand has still to be small. Also gain +1 Dexterity or Strength, with the usual limit of 20. Warning: No point in taking this if you already took Dualwielder, which is obviously superior, but doesnt give an ability score increase.

- Ambidexterity - Gain +1 Dexterity or Strength, with the usual limit of 20. Attacks with the Offhand weapon can instead be done with the main weapon, and vice versa (i.e. you can switch both as a free action at any time). Prerequisite: Dexterity 15.

- Quick Draw - Gain +1 Dexterity or Strength, with the usual limit of 20. Once per Short Rest, change one weapon category (melee or ranged) for another set of weapons or weapon and shield or twohanded weapon as a free action. Prerequisite: Strength 13.

- Mystic Dominance - Gain +1 Charisma, Wisdom or Intelligence, with the usual limit of 20. Spells working on this attribute have their DC raised by 2. Can be taken multiple times, but each time for a different attribute.

- Wild Mysticism - Gain +1 Charisma, Wisdom or Intelligence, with the usual limit of 20. Spells cast based on this attribute have a random 25% chance to not use up a spell slot. Can be taken multiple times, but each time for a different attribute.

- Priest Devotion - Gain +1 Wisdom, with the usual limit of 20. Once per Short Rest, out of combat, you can ask your deity for restoring a spell slot. Asking for a restored level 1 slot always succeeds. For higher spell levels, you roll a d20 for success chance, against a DC of 11. Your Wisdom modifier gives a bonus, every higher spell levels than 1 give a corresponding malus. Your deity might grant you a bonus on this roll, or even automatic success, if they've been especially pleased with you. Prerequisite: Wisdom 15 and ability to cast Wisdom based spells (Cleric 1, Druid 1, Ranger 2).

This gots to be the stupidest 5e crap I've heard, combining feats and attribute gain for leveling. They need to just give all feats +1 attributes or seperate them so you get both.

I'm really not a fan of how WOTC did Feats. Larian did such an amazing job with Perks in D:OS2... I really wish we could just have a Larian game in the Forgotten Realms setting. 5e just isn't that good. Though I'd hate to play previous editions of D&D on PnP, they were sooo much better for videogames. Pathfinder is much better for videogames. I guess I understand why Larian chose 5e for this game, but now it's done, the benefits came and I really hope we can put it behind us for BG4

Why don’t you like half feats?

This is the only d&d edition to do this at least from the ones I've played. 3.5 and 4e both kept the ability gain & feats at specific levels and were separate from each other. I don't know off hand for previous versions from that but if I remember correctly 3.0 should be the same also as 3.5 was just a adjusted version of 3.

I can understand that when 4e came out they wanted to stream line and dumb the game down so it would run smoother. They had multiple problems with that version did the next and kept the same idea stream lining and dumbing it down. So here we are with +2 feat +1 plus minor feat and just a feat.

Shadowheart is a pretty good example for the problem, with her sporting the ability scores of 13, 13, 14, 10, 17, and 8. We have a negative, a flat zero, +2 con and three ability scores to improve. Larian used the basic point buy system with 27 points to spend.

Amazing

AFAIK nobody likes D&D4.

D&D5 is very well designed, which means from simple basic principles we get a complex end result.

Yes all companions are pointbuy 27. You can redesign them with Withers to your hearts content if you dont like their stats.

Always respec every companion. You can do a better job with point buy than Larian did.

Yeah and d&d 5e carried over stuff from 4e, you probably would know this if you played it. Well enjoy your limitations then buddy.

I havent played it, but I read through the rulebooks, and most of the things I objected against in D&D4 are gone in D&D5.

D&D4 really was a weird system that felt completely disjunct to anything before, added the strangest classes, and had the weirdest mechanisms. It didnt feel like D&D at all anymore.

D&D5 has some very strong changes, but it still is clearly D&D, and many things that I was frustrated about in AD&D and D&D3 have been fixed.

A "+2 feat" isn't really a feat. It's an ASI. I haven't played with with previous rules where you don't decide between a feat or ASI. I do like having lesser powered feats that go with lower ASI. It's more choices and build options.

@SeanJP the +2 feat if picked stops you from getting a feat, you can call it whatever you want but it still is in the feat section. I guess you can consider this a minor jab at 5e but really its whatever.


Yeah, it was for sure different, at that time I pretty much only played 3.5 with my group for a real long time. So it's probably just something personal, as in wanting something new. For 4e to 5e, I only know a few off the top of my head: rituals, nerfed restrictions on small characters and warlord class. Don't remember the warlord class in 3.5 but I could be wrong, was told multiple times from my co-worker about that class cause, I tend to mention my bard in 4e that could move allies like a chess game. Generally I think the whole slide and what not that supported figures was really interesting. Also fun fact bg3 using weapon abilities comes off as a adjust version of 4e powers (a lot of the classes had weapon abilities tied to them).

Yes the Warlock was already in 3.5, but not in the PHB.

For MC you only need 1 ASI and Ethel's hair for 20 main stats.

For companions, 2 ASIs will take you to 20 / 16 / 16 in 3 stats if you min max and dump 3 stats to 8.

As for feats which offer +1 stat, they are very limiting and only the Str ones offer something else good (mainly Athlete and Tavern Brawler).

TWF or Ranged feats dont offer +1 dex, so its hard to bother with them except for the extra feats rogues or warriors get, but rogues are better off with 2x handbows, fighters with a 2H weapon.

Theres a feat which gives saves proficiency to the +1 stat you pick? Yet the stat you would want to use it for on any class, they already have proficiency in those saves.

The bigger problem IMO is you get too few feat slots to really benefit much from choices other than ASI, especially on companions. For casters you really do want 20 main stat and warcaster, so for caster companions there goes all 3 feats as nothing else is as good.

The popular multiclassed sorc / wizard / tempest cleric, you only get 2 feat slots, and to really make it shine you need elemental adept: lightning, so you get 18 caster stat and that if its done on a companion.

No, Warlord it wasn't a typo. That class came out in 4e. Warlock came out in, its been to long ill have to google it. Yeah, Complete Arcane for 3.5.

My co-worker might be full of crap don't know all I was pulling up was homebrew junk. Here's the link to Warlord class for 4e https://dnd4.fandom.com/wiki/Warlord

Sharpshooter represents far, far more of a damage boosts than an ASI, and Lucky can be absolutely and literally game changing, especially if you aren’t someone who save scums constantly. Just as a couple of examples.

Just saying, ASIs are frequently taken, and are absolutely generally useful, but a Str based fighter taking it over great weapon master or even polearm master or sentinel is negatively impacting their efficacy, especially considering the amount of Strength setting effects in the game.

That’s just another example and there are plenty more; Mobile, Alert, and plenty of other feats can be more impactful than an ASI. You *want* 20 in your primary stat, unless you’re a spellcaster who specializes in Save or Suck effects like an Enchanter, you don’t usually *need* a 20.