Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Real life politics influencing game act 3?

Mods, if you want to close the thread better close it now, because there is no way this could end well.

OP, game especially cRPG and DnD has always been political or politized. Your parent fuming about Demon Worshipping, Demon Summoning, Wanton Murder and Wanton Genocide in DnD/Games but now here you are complaining about politic in video games.

It will be always political, if you didn't like it feel free to play another political free cashgrab FPS thirdperson perspective games that are available in the market.

Mol didn't abandon the children. If you talk to them in Rivington and BG, they tell you, that Mol still takes care of them. And tbh, she is in no shape or form responsible for the kids and takes care of them anyway.

I won't get into the political discussion here, it only will give me headaches, I just wanted to point that out about the story with Mol and the tiefling kids.

And as someone pointed out, Aradin is not a refugee in BG, he even says to you something along the line that he will get back to Baldurs Gate.

then reply to the last user about the "parent fuming" I'm sorry but you didn't understand anything, I'm not angry at all and I don't see the reason why the thread should be closed because you tell so.
I have factually analyzed what is seen in the game and regardless of the fact that in many other games there is external influence of real political facts as well, it does not mean that I cannot discuss or criticize the way in which intrinsic messages are communicated to the players.
I explained the reasons that I think are sensible in my post before this one, I only made a comparison and I received some interesting opinions that I'm still reading so I don't think this could bother anyone.

Sadly every game must now add stuff like this to appease a certain political faction.
See Kingdom Come Deliverance for what happens when you don't.

Incorporating elements like the refugee situation in Baldur's Gate 3 felt natural to me, given that art often mirrors real life. While escapism has its merits in entertainment, an overemphasis on it can limit our appreciation and understanding of the complex world around us. Drawing parallels between fiction and reality can make narratives richer and more resonant for audiences.

The refugee thing is fine, it's happened over the centuries.

The "orange man bad" reference we could have done without. That's a little distasteful. And imo, an unnecessary addition.

That said, yes, being worried about who's sneaking in disguised as a refugee is also valid. I could give some real world context but I don't need to. Look at my location, that says it all.

But yeah, should need to chill out. Getting super angry about stuff is pointless.

Of course the refugees should be a major part of Rivington, it's been foreshadowed heavily by events and cut-scenes beforehand. It's the way of storytelling that's being called out.

You could have the same situation elements: squatters, resentful locals, terrorists, desperate refugees, looting, Gortash. Just don't insert value judgments or do story copouts with villainous caricatures. Have some real consequences:

- Side with squatters? It spreads and Gortash's support hardens. Clamp down begins.
- Side with owners? Squalor and disease take hold. Riots begin.

As is, it's obvious who the bad guy is and what to do. Bit of a time sink really.

Regarding SH and Astarion, that' not so out of character; SH lived in a commune and Astarion is happy to stick it to the powerful. And anyway, losing a point of approval is fine if you stick to your character's guns. You're playing a willful protagonist right? You should be upsetting people on occasion.

Not real world politics, FAERUN CANON

shortly before the start of the game, a neighbouring city was dragged to hell
on being rescued by adventurers it expelled anyone it connected with devilry and demons, all teeflings, worshippers of unpopular gods, anyone the rulers didn't like, the lot. All thrown out onto the road and up on BG's doorstep. That is the premise of act 1 and is pretty much explained in game. The reason refugees are an issue in the game is because that is a major plot thread of the game and a current major event of the faerun setting!

It's not about america, the game isn't even made by americans. not everything is secretly about americans.

Also evil doesn't mean jerk with one note personality = evil

I think you are projecting A LOT here. First of all, Larian is not an American company. I think assuming that companies game content must be representative of an American political system is almost arrogant. USA doesn’t have a monopoly of societal and economical issues. More so, there are refugees and refugees. Those in Baldur’s Gate3 aren’t economic immigrants (which is what a lot of real life discussion tends to revolve around) they are war refugees. Army of the Absolute has been marching toward Baldur’s Gate, so folks from undefended regions go to a place with strong defences. That leads to strained resources of the city, making some locals unhappy.

That’s a very normal way of doing things - that’s how things were set up in medieval ages (castle with strong defences, surrounding farms etc. that could go into the caste if enemy came). The situation in BG3 isn’t really about letting the refugees in - normally one could go in and out without any issues, like in any other city, it’s about Gortash using staged attack to take control of the city and lock it down (Bane the Tyrrant).

I am once again pushing back on the notion that this is “medieval” fantasy. The only thing medieval about the Forgotten Realms is its aesthetic. There are diverse levels of technology, different social values, and economic dynamics which are completely foreign to a medieval setting. Medieval societies did not have rail, teleportation, flight, electricity, the printing press, or mass literacy. It is entirely normal for refugees from the army of the Absolute and from Elturel being transported to and from Avernus to flood into Baldur’s Gate and be overwhelmingly decent people because they are civilians. To say otherwise contradicts the lore of the Realms.

Also Wormerine is right: Larian is very much not American. To imagine these issues as allegories for American politics is projection.

You know that Europe has its own migrant crisis?

You know that OP specifically mentions democrats and republicans, right?

FYI: I’ve lived in London for the last two years.

Any comparison to real-world refugees is inherently limited by the fact that the refugees in this game are in fact much more local. Ironically enough in the American context, it would be like if there was a murderous army ravaging the (mostly republican) rural areas, and the giant metropolitan city (usually democrat) did not want to let them in to protect them.

Honestly, if you find yourself unable to think of refugees (a concept that has existed forever) outside of the current political context in which you find yourself, you might need to just stop listening to or thinking about politics for a while.

Okay I think in the interests of Red Queen’s sanity we should refrain from utilizing further real world examples and try to discuss how Larian can makes its writing more subtle.

I don't think they can. Any indication that the fears and concerns of the Baldurans about the refugees are even just in part justified and Larian would be crucified on social and actual media.

The topic of the thread itself is about "real life politics."

I think it's so amazingly obvious that the events in the game are drawing extensively from real world examples that it's hard to imagine someone bothering to suggest otherwise.

Which leaves a couple of questions:

1. Is doing this bad?
--i tend to think so. it's bias that weakens the story. when writing a character in a story, the objective is to get into that characters head and understand them, and only by understanding them can the story begin to come alive. otherwise, it's nothing more than another bit of political commentary... hardly inspired, but rather mindless repetition of what's in the news every day.

2. Is there a way of doing it more effectively?
--i tend to think so. it should be done with understanding. a great writer should be capable of breaking outside of groupthink, of presenting a world that's fair to all parties involved within the narrative.

I would also add that the inclusion of "real life politics" in this manner becomes unnecessarily divisive. The goal of a game is to provide enjoyment for the players, who all come from various backgrounds. It's not to act as a platform for someone's personal politics.

Unfortunately, I agree with this.

Which is to say that I think art is at a low point in the world today. Being constrained in this manner is not good for storytelling. Writers are beholden to "social and actual media."

This may be true, but can we think of games which handle political issues internal to a setting’s own logic in a nuanced manner?

I am reminded of the imperialism vs. nativism themes in Morrowind and Skyrim. The Empire is clearly colonialist and imperialist, seeking to spread and enforce its values on the natives, often with the sole purpose of exploitation. On the other hand, the native peoples of Skyrim and Morrowind hold genocidal and racist viewpoints at times: the desire to purge outlanders, enslave lesser races, confine non-natives to outside the city walls, and at times to worship demonic beings that have invaded Tamriel multiple times.

Anyone have better examples of nuance and subtlety?

EDIT: In hindsight, it's not subtle in its imperial and colonial theme; it's just nuanced. Do better, Todd Howard.

I think it depends on your defitinion of "real life politics". Trying to write a fiction you will always draw inspiration from the world we are living in. Otherwise, the fiction wouldn't be relatable.

When I think "drawing inspiration from real life" I think recreating direct allegories to the events that are taking place. And those become an issue if the characters or events within the fiction make little sense if the meta context is removed.

As much as I am willing to criticise BG3 story, I really don't think that is happening. An "orange" referencial joke aside, the archetypes presented in act3 are broad and generic. The situation might be black and white, but it is the general tone of the whole game. It is not Obsidian game, it is uninterested in creating socio-political dilemmas to put our characters worldview into a test. I can't think of a choice in BG3 that doesn't boil down to "do the reasonable, mutually beneficial thing" or "be as asshole". This is just no different. I think you folks give BG3 narrative more credit than I do.

I believe the inspiration should internalize and come out with emotion and theme. It should grow rich and nuanced, informing all dimensions of a character and setting.

As opposed to being a stand-in for one side of a cable news show panel debate.

*

Let me try this a different way, maybe. A character can and should have opinions on issues like this. The problem comes in when the game itself has the opinion.

But you might say, of course the game is going to have an opinion on right and wrong. And that's fair, to an extent. There are some opinions so universally shared that it's understandable and necessary. By and large, we can all agree that cold blooded murder is evil, barring extreme circumstances that become morality questions.

However, there exist certain issues that divide folks in the world, deeply. This is one of them. The OP mentioned two political parties, but it's larger than that. It's more along the lines of nationalists and globalists.

When a singular character in a story takes a side, it's understandable. People do that, and thus characters should do that when it's relevant.

But when the *game itself* takes a side, it ceases to be a stroy with verisimilitude and instead becomes a mouthpiece. Part of seething culture war. It's no longer true to the world, to the setting, to the vast.

*

You mention that some of us give the narrative more credit than you do. I would agree with that. I understand your criticism of the response choices that are often available, and I think that's more than fair. Still, I find truly great moments within the narrative that are worth celebrating. I find some of the companions to be exceptionally well done, and I believe the core inciting incident creates for a powerful overall narrative.

That said, I do have some issues with the game. This political thing is one of them. It's a stumbling block that lessens the story.

I also think there are serious issues with Act 3.

I think Act 2 has some issues, but the more I've thought about it, the more I've concluded that all of those issues would be cleared up nicely if Larian decided to release a prelude about the town of Reithwin back in the day.

Imagine playing a character in Reithwin after Melodia dies, right when Ketheric starts going dark. When the cold winds of change sweep through across the land, and folks begin to worship Selune in fear as blackcloaks rise and dark justiciars are named. As the harpers bring war, and as Morfred the stonemason prepares to make a deal with devils to undo his mistakes.

It would be amazing.